SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

[Mitchum]

I was just going to ask if you were using a balanced approach to getting out the HAs. In other words, were you clear cutting Paris or leaving us with massive . It sounds like you took a bit more conservative approach.

Can you post the plans you have now for each city and worker MM? It will make it easier for me to provide input if I can see what you're doing.

Regarding timing, I'd say that we want to get ready to invade as soon as we can (within reason) and then make a game-time decision as to whether to go for it or wait a few turns. For example, if the GW is gone and Hatty has 150H into a build, it might make sense to wait for her to finish the GLH.

 

[Mitchum]

I'll be leaving tomorrow morning and I'll be away from civilization (pun intended) until Monday. Don't wait for my responses before playing. If you have any questions about anything I've done or what I was planning to do, let me know. I think it's pretty self-evident though.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay, I managed to get 2 CII HAs + 2 HAs + 2 galleys leaving T66, DoW T69, capture T70 (knock on wood):

Spoiler :

CEB builds 2 HAs, second completing T66, boarding galley at FC-2s1w T67. This required 3 extra chops, CEB, FC, and another 16h for Paris. The worker plan is tentative, possible improvements.

Question: Does the chop at Paris-3s1e go into Paris or FurCity?

 

[ZPV]

Okay, I managed to get 2 CII HAs + 2 HAs + 2 galleys leaving T66, DoW T69, capture T70 (knock on wood):

Spoiler :

CEB builds 2 HAs, second completing T66, boarding galley at FC-2s1w T67. This required 3 extra chops, CEB, FC, and another 16h for Paris. The worker plan is tentative, possible improvements.

Question: Does the chop at Paris-3s1e go into Paris or FurCity?

I like this date better

The chop goes into Paris because it was founded first and is thus higher up the list of cities.

I personally wouldn't be afraid to whip Paris 5 times in 10 turns if it helped. We aren't rushing for CS and Alexandria + Thebes will give us a lot of science and +3 from Representation.

 

[WastinTime]

I don't know that 4 HAs is enough to guarantee success. Wouldn't we be better off going with 6? or 5 + an Axe? on 3 galleys.
How much delay is that?

- I don't have much time today, just another hour, then I'm off for 10 hours. So, quickly reviewing the plan:
a) I don't see the need for a rd at Pa-3S2E. maybe it only costs 1t for that road so you're just doing it.

b) I think there is a chance we can DoW 68, capture 69. But none of your plans have to change to take advantage of this. By looking at the culture, there should be a land tile at FC-6S1E and possibly 7S1E. Our warrior will tell us what our options are, so nothing for you to plan for here.

Don't forget to CF Fred.

 

[WastinTime]

I don't know that 4 HAs is enough to guarantee success. Wouldn't we be better off going with 6? or 5 + an Axe? on 3 galleys.
How much delay is that?

For example, what if we kill the stables? That gives us 2 more units. Then we just need to squeeze out a boat.
That looks like only a 2 (max 3) turn delay.

 

[WastinTime]

Isn't your galley coming out too late for t69 DoW?
hmm...no maybe you changed your notation. galleys move on 66 and 68.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Isn't your galley coming out too late for t69 DoW?

THe yellow shows when it's done.

Our warrior should peek into Alexandria on T58, iirc. If it's on flatland, then the CII HAs have a winning-odds breakpoint. I assume FC'll build at least one more galley and others will crank out more HAs. So the T69 DoW is tentative obviously. We might have to deny an iron tile, who knows? She can build WCs all she wants (why she needs the in the desert I don't know). Better than archers for us.

xpost

 

[LowtherCastle]

Yes, I'm planning to CF Fred and note the plan abandons the slave-driving chariot. I postponed that because the sheep is awkwardly located and we want him to focus on making Ham and Freds.

 

[WastinTime]

The last HA in Paris comes out 1 turn early. All the roads are in place to be born on 67 and still board. So if you would be better off waiting a turn to whip, you can.

 

[WastinTime]

Yes, I'm planning to CF Fred and note the plan abandons the slave-driving chariot. I postponed that because the sheep is awkwardly located and we want him to focus on making Ham and Freds.

I'm ok with that. But we should turn our attention back to Fred as soon as we get Alexandria (+maybe Thebes)

 

[LowtherCastle]

We note that the only cultural building Thebes has is the Pyramids. So it accounts for 21 of the non-commerce GNP. The jump from 104 to 120 could be the difference in teching a 1.2 bonus tech and a 1.4 bonus tech, meaning Hatty would be teching Monarchy. If so, she's getting 90-100bpt.* Yikaroos.

*Edit: I forgot to subtract her ep slider. phew That's a fraction of a relief.

 

[LowtherCastle]

The last HA in Paris comes out 1 turn early. All the roads are in place to be born on 67 and still board. So if you would be better off waiting a turn to whip, you can.

Good point. I'd like to re-work that anyway so Paris can work the deer on T55 instead of CEB. That loses the furs this turn but gains several turns of cottage, I think.

I'm ok with that. But we should turn our attention back to Fred as soon as we get Alexandria (+maybe Thebes)

Absolutely. Denying him copper will be much easier with a HA, plus axe if needed. We'd also like to take out Alex. Athens-3n is a power city but I doubt he'd settle it that way. May be too late by then anyway.

 

[LowtherCastle]

When should I play on? Today or wait till tomorrow?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Actually, maybe I could play this evening, after you're back, WT, giving you one more chance to review the revised plan. ZPV, I should get it done in plenty of time for you to also review it. How does that sound?

 

[ZPV]

When should I play on? Today or wait till tomorrow?

If you're happy with the micro, play whenever's convenient.
EDIT: I'll take a better look when you post the revised plan.

 

[WastinTime]

Let's not use our usual 'middle finger' diplomacy so much. Try to keep some AI happy in case we go with religious victory.

Cold feet:
We are at a huge turning point, or I should say, no turning back point. Egypt is not in the RR path (we assume). We could leave her alone and either a) steal from her, or b) get her to Friendly. This could get us Feudalism, MC, machinery, Guilds, and more. Maybe we're making a huge mistake right now. We leave her alive and never have to touch Russia or Gandhi or Sal or Joao, or even Alex. Win using the AP. That should be easy with Hatty voting for us. She is easy to get to Friendly.
Our war could be just Fred, Memed, Persia, China. With such a small war plan (for a change), we could concentrate on tech and bulbing like we planned... I can definitely see us doing our bulb plan without the GLib. It's a little painful to do it without Representation tho.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Let's not use our usual 'middle finger' diplomacy so much. Try to keep some AI happy in case we go with religious victory.

Cold feet:
We are at a huge turning point, or I should say, no turning back point. Egypt is not in the RR path (we assume). We could leave her alone and either a) steal from her, or b) get her to Friendly. This could get us Feudalism, MC, machinery, Guilds, and more. Maybe we're making a huge mistake right now. We leave her alive and never have to touch Russia or Gandhi or Sal or Joao, or even Alex. Win using the AP. That should be easy with Hatty voting for us. She is easy to get to Friendly.
Our war could be just Fred, Memed, Persia, China. With such a small war plan (for a change), we could concentrate on tech and bulbing like we planned... I can definitely see us doing our bulb plan without the GLib. It's a little painful to do it without Representation tho.

I doubt that's better. We're going to be so technologically advanced we'll crush the entire map with a small, powerful army. Then there's GLH+Mids, by far the two most powerful tech factors in the early game, combined with flat map + Organaized trait + no domination limit + all happy and health resources + food-rich map = almost limitless research engine. We should be planning to research one tech per turn by the end, without Sushi.

In theory anyway.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Let's not use our usual 'middle finger' diplomacy so much. Try to keep some AI happy in case we go with religious victory.

Btw, I'm working on calculating the AIs' attitudes toward each other. I agree on minimizing negmods. Hopefully we'll still get a number of techs in trade.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Additional, non-trivial benefit of warring: A much bigger nation will easily afford the army of workers we'lll need to build the railroad in one turn.