SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

[LowtherCastle]

PPP t70-71

t70
- trade HBR for Mono. Or Alpha?

Just a thought, but do we need to trade for Mono now? Couldn't we trade Hatty for it before the Thebes DoW?

 

[Pollina]

I was thinking we'd be Hatty's WE for sure after capturing Alexa and losing the better rank attitude mod with her. But I forgot about the +4 we'll get for the city gift. I guess the Mono trade can wait. Maybe Mao will forget about one of our tech trades (5% chance each turn).

Any other reasons to trade for Mono now?

 

[WastinTime]

Yeah because someone might forget to trade for it before we dow her again... or we become her worst enemy for some other reason

 

[WastinTime]

I suppose she could get monarchy. Would we have anything to trade her for it if we trade for mono now. I know we could get monarchy elsewhere eventually but it'd be nice to get our wine soon as possible

 

[Pollina]

I suppose she could get monarchy. Would we have anything to trade her for it if we trade for mono now. I know we could get monarchy elsewhere eventually but it'd be nice to get our wine soon as possible

Hatty is teching Calendar(4). Alexa is producing 70%+ of her beakers. Her research rate will take a big hit when we capture it. I don't think we can expect any more techs from her.

That leaves 5 techs we could steal from her: Math, CoL, Construction, Calendar, Theo. What are our priorities after Math? Do we need a second city for stealing techs (CEB, requires monument) or are we fine running all our missions in FC? In other words, where should I send the spy in CEB?

I could play in ~3 hours.

 

[WastinTime]

No Monument. You do realize that the monument is destroyed on recapture

 

[LowtherCastle]

No Monument. You do realize that the monument is destroyed on recapture

Can't get destroyed -- it's disposable. Produce 1c and then we dispose of it. D'oh!

Yes, the purpose is to get techs sooner. The cost is 30h and the food lost in the granary. The benefit is all the unhappiness lost. I think it's a net gain. Think out of your boxiepoo, WT.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Pollina, going ahead and meeting brown AI would be useful in terms of setting the exact power rankings for determining attitudes. I've been a bit remiss but Hatty is hating on Alex pretty fierce.

 

[Pollina]

No Monument. You do realize that the monument is destroyed on recapture

Is that a vote to steal only in FC?

I know that a monument would get destroyed. We need some culture in CEB if we want to steal techs there. Halves the mission cost. No revolt, pop lost and we keep the granary on recapture.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Pollina, i'm getting that Hatty is between -6 and -8 hidden negmods with Alex. I think we're good to wait on Mono, UNLESS we kill off Alex. She doesn't hate anyone else she know nearly as much as Alex, although maybe still enough once we get the +4.

Can we actually not be her WE if she still hates Alex more than u when we're at war with her? Our hidden are our visible with Hatty, so that might tell us more exactly what her hidden attitude is to Alex.

 

[Pollina]

Pollina, going ahead and meeting brown AI would be useful in terms of setting the exact power rankings for determining attitudes. I've been a bit remiss but Hatty is hating on Alex pretty fierce.

We meet Kublai Khan:

Spoiler :

We could give him Fishing for OB.

He has nothing to gain DoWing Fred, Stalin, Mao. He can't be too powerful.

 

[Pollina]

Pollina, i'm getting that Hatty is between -6 and -8 hidden negmods with Alex. I think we're good to wait on Mono, UNLESS we kill off Alex. She doesn't hate anyone else she know nearly as much as Alex, although maybe still enough once we get the +4.

Can we actually not be her WE if she still hates Alex more than u when we're at war with her? Our hidden are our visible with Hatty, so that might tell us more exactly what her hidden attitude is to Alex.

With the city gift, there is no danger that we'll be Hatty's WE after the first DoW and a CF.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We meet Kublai Khan:

Spoiler :

We could give him Fishing for OB.

He has nothing to gain DoWing Fred, Stalin, Mao. He can't be too powerful.

It's the score power ranking that counts and he's fifth. Doesn't change Hatty's attitude for Alex (-6 to -8)

 

[ZPV]

No monument in CEB. We can erase the whip anger at a later date once religion has spread using a different AI, and we have real warmonger-level whip anger.

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[Pollina]

Okay, I'll send the spy to FC then. That's

t71 Math
t78 Construction
t84 CoL (t83 with galley trick)

assuming no spies lost.

 

[WastinTime]

Is that a vote to steal only in FC?

I know that a monument would get destroyed. We need some culture in CEB if we want to steal techs there. Halves the mission cost. No revolt, pop lost and we keep the granary on recapture.

I think we can steal fast enough in FC -- that's worst case.
Best case: we get a religion spread.
alternate case: we spread religion ourselves.
I admit, I haven't looked at how long we have to wait for certain techs and if it's worth the monument + food to get a tech sooner. I suppose the argument that would sway me is if we whip CEB so hard that it is angry at size 2. Then we're gifting the city primarily to clear anger. Stealing tech from it is just a side benefit.

 

[Pollina]

Playing...

t70
- We meet Kublai Khan. (See this post)
- Fishing to KK. Open borders.
- Our warrior discovers a second gold west of Egypt... Along with a barb archer that will kill him ibt.

t71
- warrior dies as expected.
- Joao will trade Mono. Only tech we can give him is Alpha.
- Alexa finishes granary and is building an archer (5). Too late, Hatty.
- FurCity to Hatty. +4 attitude with her. -4 for WE trades with Joao (cautious) and Alex (annoyed).
- Steal Mathematics. Spy survives.
- DoW Hatty. We keep our trade connections with far away civs.
- Take back FC.
- Capture Alexa. First HA (25%) only gets one hit on WC. Second HA (71%) loses, too. #3 (80%) and #4 (99%) win their battles. Granary and lighthouse both get destroyed.

Save uploaded

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1200 BC to 1160 BC:

Turn 70, 1200 BC: Cow-E-Bunga has grown to size 3.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Cow-E-Bunga can hurry Horse Archer for 1⇴ with 31ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 38 turns.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Churchill will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Gandhi will trade Crab
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Mehmed II will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Joao II will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Stalin will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: You are the worst enemy of Frederick.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Stalin.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin, Mao Zedong.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Hatshepsut is the worst enemy of Joao II, Alexander.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Mao Zedong is the worst enemy of Gandhi.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Alexander is the worst enemy of Hatshepsut.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Monotheism
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Churchill will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Gandhi will trade Crab
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Mehmed II will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Joao II will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Stalin will trade Cow, Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: You are the worst enemy of Frederick.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Stalin.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin, Kublai Khan, Mao Zedong.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Hatshepsut is the worst enemy of Joao II, Alexander.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Mao Zedong is the worst enemy of Gandhi.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Alexander is the worst enemy of Hatshepsut.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Monotheism
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Churchill will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Gandhi will trade Crab
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Mehmed II will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Joao II will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Stalin will trade Cow, Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Paris will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: You have trained a Horse Archer in Cow-E-Bunga. Work has now begun on a Horse Archer.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Napoleon's Warrior 1 (Paris) (2.00)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Combat Odds: 92.7%
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Napoleon's Warrior 1 (Paris) is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Napoleon's Warrior 1 (Paris) is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Napoleon's Warrior 1 (Paris) is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Napoleon's Warrior 1 (Paris) is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Napoleon's Warrior 1 (Paris) is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Barbarian's Archer has defeated Napoleon's Warrior 1 (Paris)!
Turn 70, 1200 BC: While defending, your Warrior 1 (Paris) was destroyed by a Barbarian Archer!

Turn 71, 1160 BC: Paris has grown to size 7.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Joao II will trade Monotheism
Turn 71, 1160 BC: You have discovered Mathematics!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Upon completing the mission the Spy 1 (FurCity) has returned safely to Paris.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Deal Canceled: Open Borders to Hatshepsut for Open Borders
Turn 71, 1160 BC: You have declared war on Hatshepsut!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut refuses to talk.
Turn 71, 1160 BC: You have captured FurCity!!!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) (6.00) vs Hatshepsut's War Chariot (7.50)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Combat Odds: 25.1%
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot has defeated Napoleon's Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga)!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Your Horse Archer 1 (Cow-E-Bunga) has died trying to attack a War Chariot!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) (7.20) vs Hatshepsut's War Chariot (6.22)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Combat Odds: 71.0%
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 20 (63/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 20 (43/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 20 (23/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris) is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot has defeated Napoleon's Horse Archer 2 (Paris)!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Your Horse Archer 2 (Paris) has died trying to attack a War Chariot!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 4 (Paris) (7.20) vs Hatshepsut's Warrior (5.20)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Combat Odds: 80.0%
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Plot Defense: +60%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 4 (Paris) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's Warrior is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's Warrior is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 4 (Paris) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's Warrior is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's Warrior is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 4 (Paris) is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's Warrior is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 4 (Paris) has defeated Hatshepsut's Warrior!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Your Horse Archer 4 (Paris) has destroyed a Warrior!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 3 (Cow-E-Bunga) (6.00) vs Hatshepsut's War Chariot (1.72)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 71, 1160 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 22 (1/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Hatshepsut's War Chariot is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 3 (Cow-E-Bunga) has defeated Hatshepsut's War Chariot!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: Your Horse Archer 3 (Cow-E-Bunga) has destroyed a War Chariot!
Turn 71, 1160 BC: You have captured Alexandria!!!

 

[Pollina]

Do we want OB with the Mongols?

 

[ZPV]

Do we want OB with the Mongols?

Please do. I suspect we'll want to explore a path through them to China for the victory condition.

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[WastinTime]

Sweet. the most important tech Steal is done. Yeah Pollina!