SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

[LowtherCastle]

Iiuc, this is our current tentative plan:

Banking et al: by hand
Philo: existing GS
GA#1: existing GArtist
Engineering: by hand
GP: by hand
Chemistry: Alexa GS#1+#2
Paper: by hand
Educ: Lisbon GS#1 + by hand
Economics: Thebes GM#1 + by hand
GA#2: Berlin+Athens GPs
Liberalism: by hand (to 1t)
Steel: by hand
PP: research by hand (or Alexa GS + by hand)
Civil Service: by hand Is this where it goes?
RepParts: pop173 + 2 GMs (Munich+Paris)
Steam: Liberalism free tech
RR: pop173 + 5 GMs (Econ+Ham+Lis+Ist+Thebes)

We finish Thebes GM before Alexa GS if we can complete PP by hand.

.

 

[LowtherCastle]

GS: Existing
GA: Existing
200 GS: Alexa
300 GS: Alexa
400 GS: Lisbon
500 GE/M: Thebes
600 GM: Munich or ?
700 GP: Berlin
800 GP: Athens
900 GM: Paris
1000 GM: Hamburg or ?
1200 GM: Lisbon
1400 GM: Istanbul
1600 GM/E: Thebes
1800 GS: Alexa

 

[LowtherCastle]

Another possibility for saving turns: Depending on how long we can delay the Chemistry bulbs and how fast our overall research is growing, we could wait to see if we can start GA#2 with a GS instead of a GM. That could enable Istanbul to give us our 7th GM.

 

[ZPV]

@LC: We need Civil Service in the tech plan as well, to allow the Replaceable Parts lightbulb.

 

[ZPV]

7-8 lightbulbs on the final 2 turns is cute. I suspect it will underuse our raw beaker potential at the end of the golden age though.
30 cities, all starving slowly on 5 scientists, is 900 beakers flat. I think that's a conservative estimate if the conquest gets going fast enough.

 

[LowtherCastle]

7-8 lightbulbs on the final 2 turns is cute. I suspect it will underuse our raw beaker potential at the end of the golden age though.
30 cities, all starving slowly on 5 scientists, is 900 beakers flat. I think that's a conservative estimate if the conquest gets going fast enough.

What do you recommend? I think what we're doing is manipulating the variables to push everything forward to the max. Eventually, either raw beakers or producing the last GM will determine our RR date, right?

 

[LowtherCastle]

We also have the Fredburg option instead of CanalCity or Munich for a GP farm. It can easily be ready by T111. The islam duties would need to be passed on to someone else.

I spy 3 Sal IslaMisses on their way. We have 4 cities with no religion. Assuming he'll spread to all four, that leaves us with Lisbon and Berlin, right? Hopefully, we only need to build one more.

 

[ZPV]

What do you recommend? I think what we're doing is manipulating the variables to push everything forward to the max. Eventually, either raw beakers or producing the last GM will determine our RR date, right?

I think the last GMs will be too late, so instead we should plan on 17 ish turns of research, an earlier GS for Printing Press (Istanbul is good as WT pointed out). We'd just cut the last couple great people (rather, not bother getting one in Berlin, and save one for a contingency of some kind), and do a couple turns of actual research into railroad.

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[WastinTime]

I spy 3 Sal IslaMisses on their way. We have 4 cities with no religion. Assuming he'll spread to all four, that leaves us with Lisbon and Berlin, right? Hopefully, we only need to build one more.

assuming we're going conquest, yes. Then we don't need the monastery in fredburg.

 

[WastinTime]

Careful with Liberalism. It's easy to put too many beakers in. Then when you come back to finish it, you have overflow and your tech rate has increased by 100's and waste 1000+ beakers. Not a problem if we end up researching RR a bit, but in the current plan Lib is the last thing we do.
I'd do Steel first in any case.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I think the last GMs will be too late, so instead we should plan on 17 ish turns of research, an earlier GS for Printing Press (Istanbul is good as WT pointed out). We'd just cut the last couple great people (rather, not bother getting one in Berlin, and save one for a contingency of some kind), and do a couple turns of actual research into railroad.

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For reference, 1122 raw-beakers = a GM bulb at pop173.

 

[WastinTime]

I think the last GMs will be too late, so instead we should plan on 17 ish turns of research, an earlier GS for Printing Press (Istanbul is good as WT pointed out). We'd just cut the last couple great people (rather, not bother getting one in Berlin, and save one for a contingency of some kind), and do a couple turns of actual research into railroad.

I estimated 12000 manual research averaging 600 bpt over 20 turns. Very conservative--probably too conservative.

Now that we've added CS to that which I forgot, and you're talking about 2700 more to replace the last 2 GMs. We're up to 16,000. And you're talking about 17 turns instead of 20. That means we'd need to average ~940 bpt. That's just under 800 raw.

Not saying we can't do it, but it seems like a bit of a reach considering we also need to conquer the world. We can keep the option open as long as possible. It would sure be nice to make a GS in the end instead of GM so we can bulb SciMeth if needed. Also, having Thebes do a GS means lots more organic beakers.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I think the last GMs will be too late, so instead we should plan on 17 ish turns of research, an earlier GS for Printing Press (Istanbul is good as WT pointed out). We'd just cut the last couple great people (rather, not bother getting one in Berlin, and save one for a contingency of some kind), and do a couple turns of actual research into railroad.

If our teching is going to be that awesome, what about skipping CS (1196f-b) and the two RepParts (2691 f-b) bulbs and only 5-bulb RR?

Then if we only need 5 GMs, what about goig for another GS and comping PP before the Chemistry bulbs so we can save 200+ beakers on GP?

 

[WastinTime]

CS: We skipped it to get Banking faster, but I don't see why we'd wait much longer. Engineering is probably more important (road movement), but why not switch to Bureaucracy on GA+5 or ASAP?

xpost: I like the idea of skipping CS and manual Repparts....need to think some...

 

[LowtherCastle]

Speaking of organic beakers, it stands to reason that we want our GMs produced at the cheapest gp rates possible, which is balanced of course by not needing them until the last tech.

 

[WastinTime]

Don't forget we still need 400? gpt to get that awesome bpt in the end. The awesomeness comes from not running hardly any merchants any more.

400 is just a wild guess. If we conquer/keep 20-30 more cities, I'm not sure what our expenses are.
I imagine we'd raze quite a few in the end.

 

[Mitchum]

Careful with Liberalism. It's easy to put too many beakers in. Then when you come back to finish it, you have overflow and your tech rate has increased by 100's and waste 1000+ beakers. Not a problem if we end up researching RR a bit, but in the current plan Lib is the last thing we do.
I'd do Steel first in any case.

I was thinking the same thing when I read the tech path. We're going to be so far ahead of the AI that there should be no need to put any beakers into Liberalism until it's the next tech we're researching, right?

 

[ZPV]

If our teching is going to be that awesome, what about skipping CS (1196f-b) and the two RepParts (2691 f-b) bulbs and only 5-bulb RR?

Then if we only need 5 GMs, what about goig for another GS and comping PP before the Chemistry bulbs so we can save 200+ beakers on GP?

I like that idea.

Normally with these settings, you'd run a golden age right after Oxford, and do 1000+ bpt (maybe 1500+ if you have as many cities as we do) to get to the big industrial techs. We don't have Oxford, or all the libraries we'd normally have, but we do have more food than normal, and don't need to keep growing our cities for the future. 1200bpt from scientists at 0% with our units on strike on the last turn is an acceptable outcome for us.

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[Mitchum]

@LC

I wanted to say thanks for laying out the tech and GP plans in posts 1521 and 1522. I wasn't following those details that well until I saw those posts.

It's so hard to estimate final beaker count until you actually start the golden age, revolt to the proper civics and actually hire all of the specialists. We will likely have to revisit this plan once we've done that. Is it possible to keep all (or most) options open until we fire off that first GA?

 

[ZPV]

@LC

I wanted to say thanks for laying out the tech and GP plans in posts 1521 and 1522. I wasn't following those details that well until I saw those posts.

It's so hard to estimate final beaker count until you actually start the golden age, revolt to the proper civics and actually hire all of the specialists. We will likely have to revisit this plan once we've done that. Is it possible to keep all (or most) options open until we fire off that first GA?

I don't think there's all that much (if any) difference, between now and our golden age. Maybe a little bit of reprioritising chops from failgold to units and vice-versa, plus how soon we have to plan to conquer the world.