Dhoomstriker
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It is not. Look again. Settle a City at 2 SE + 2 E of Novgorod on the Gold.
An anagram of Palace.
SGOTM 23 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
And I thought it might be a new and exotic term . . . or a typo.It is not. Look again. Settle a City at 2 SE + 2 E of Novgorod on the Gold. There's no settler available, and we can capture Nov next turn, then cease fire and proceed.
An anagram of Palace.
Dhoomstriker
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Our Combat II Musketeers have 36% odds. We have no easy way of making more of them. That's it, without delaying when we get Railroad even further.
That's our entire army for razing Mao's Cities. Is it wise to expend a large portion of our army on a City that we do not need in a way that we won't be able to effectively kill Mao with his Longbowmen?
We've already had I believe three turns where we missed out on Drafting all 3 Musketeers, so being in Nationhood isn't really being effective for us.
I'm not sure I understand how not having a Settler at this very moment matters. That Settler can settle at the end of the game.
What matters is the current lack of Roads going toward Kublai, which is why we need to send Workers to the Orenburg area and then build Roads to the north-east of there.
I'm currently putting together a GPP spreadsheet.
Playing the remainder of this T140 (based on PPP in post #1179 and what I posted where it does not conflict) into beginning of T141.
Sounds good.
I'm going to have to turn in soon. I will try to contribute as much as possible tomorrow between 10 and 4 (that's between 10 and 16 hours from now.) After that, I'm committed elsewhere until late tomorrow night.
Dhoomstriker
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See the spreadsheet attached message #1179 (or else just read what I wrote in that message), where we'll need to fire the 2 Scientists in London to ensure that we get a decent amount of Great People. Several turns down the road (on T150), we'll hire additional Specialists in London.
I strongly suggest that we call off the war with Stalin and Cease Fire. It's a non-essential City for our end-game, just like going after Darius' Cities is not essential, so let's not get distracted.
Let me try to answer some of your questions now:
The questions to ask ourselves are:
Will he potentially become someone's Peace Vassal, and if he does, do we care?
We probably would care, as then we would be unable to gift him Cities, and we wouldn't be able to recapture Cities from him later without also going to war with his new Master.
Joao can become someone's Vassal if he is Pleased toward that AI and that AI knows Feudalism. So, the turn after we Cease Fire with Joao, he could instantly choose to Peace Vassal to Frederick. Great question! And, the answer will have to be "no, we must stay at war with Joao for now."
We will only Cease Fire with Joao when we have our Spies in place and are ready to gift him Cities, probably after we've learned Railroad:
i. We'd Cease Fire with Joao without ending the turn
ii. We'd gift Cities to Joao without ending the turn
iii. We'd perform Spread Culture Missions in the gifted Cities
iv. We'd declare war on Joao before ending the turn and recapture our Cities
In that way, Joao won't be able to Peace Vassal to another AI peacefully (he could still do so if the other AI thought that it was strong enough to fight us, and then his new Master would declare war on us, but I doubt that such a possibility will occur if we keep most of our army alive.)
Sure, let's keep taking his Cities until he is ready to Capitulate to us. We might have to Liberate those Cities back to Kublai after Capitulating him.
Unfortunately, I don't think that we'll have a realistic shot at a 4-Great-Person Golden Age. Hopefully, we shouldn't need such a Golden Age if we can win before then.
For now, we can save all Great People and figure out how best to use them once we know which types we have gotten.
Without Caste System, our Great Person generation is going to be a random mix, with us ideally later getting a Great Prophet out of London and a Great Merchant out of XO Cognac to give us the most flexibility, a non-Great-Artist as our first Great Person out of St. Pete's and a Great Artist as our second Great Person out of St. Pete's.
There is no rush to capture Oporto, since we must stay at war with Joao. Yes, it will be nice to get our troops moving by Galleys to the east, but not at the cost of losing a lot of troops.
As Cactus Pete said, we can drop off Galley 10's Cat 19 this turn, and then move Muskteers to guard that Catapult.
I'd advise spending at least one turn Bombarding, if not more turns Bombarding, with spare Muskteers moving to cover the PH Mine at 1 NW of Lisbon, the GH For at 1 E of Lisbon, and on the P Cow at 1 S of Lisbon, to reduce the number of production power that the City has in the short term.
As for our Settler, I suggest that we do not use it at the resort and instead send it toward Persepolis, so that we can gift a City to Gandhi with Islam in it
I was sending the settler to build on the "gold Hill" you mentioned. I fired 2 London scientists on T140.
Capturing Oporto frees up troops for use else where.
Almost done with short turn set will post soon.
Could only capture 3 of 4 cities from Kublai. Orenburg was out of reach of our teleported troops.
Will capture T141.
Capturing Oporto frees up troops for use else where.
Almost done with short turn set will post soon.
Could only capture 3 of 4 cities from Kublai. Orenburg was out of reach of our teleported troops.
Will capture T141.
Dhoomstriker
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We might not have that luxury at Mao, as our Catapults move quite slowly. Losses will be considerable against Mao's Longbowmen. If we end up getting to use Catapults at Mao, it means that we've dragged on our warring and our end-game timing will be in jeopardy.
Every new Unit that we have to build diverts Hammers away from Railroad, as we could otherwise be building Failure Gold or Wealth.
We need to be sufficiently powerful for Kublai to be willing to capitulate to us. The more troops that we lose, the harder it may become for Kublai to become our Vassal, until we divert yet more resources into troop-building for troops that might not even get to see battle, just to get ourselves a capitulated Vassal out of Kublai.
I appreciate the optimism, but I don't see a way for us to capture Novgorod given the current situation without taking heavy losses.
Capturing Novgorod would have still required us to build another City to the north-east of Orenburg and would have still required us to build additional Roads to the north-east of Orenburg, so Novgorod gives us no strategic advantage.
Moscow has turned into junk, and we've had to junk it a second time with needing to regift it a second time, so capturing Novgorod to try to make Moscow better is a nice thought but it's too late in the game to work.
Growing that first population point in any City is an expensive proposition, and until a City gets a few citizens, it drags on our empire more than it contributes.
We also will soon face a very tough choice:
i. declare war on Hatty and Mao ONLY AFTER Kublai becomes our Vassal (Kublai is not likely to want to become our Vassal if we are at war with Hatty and Mao), which allows Mao to spam more troops
OR
ii. go without Representation by waiting to declare war on Hatty and Mao until our troops arrive near China
On that note, we may have to temporarily Cease Fire with Joao (only within the span of a turn, without ending the turn), for Kublai to become our Vassal, before redeclaring war on Joao on the same turn, but we'll come to that bridge once Kublai is willing to talk to us.
Our Cities are tied up building Spies. Our alternative approach of going for an AP Victory was not prioritized and we have repeatedly made decisions that made it harder to get an AP Victory. The AP is not well understood by our team and people don't have time/interest to read up about BtS concepts like this, so I don't think that we're going to have much luck with an AP Victory.
Even with a few Cities able to produce troops, it takes time to march to Mao. We can't get our troops to Mao until we either get a Road to the east of Persia, which we hadn't prioritized, or we get Kublai as our Vassal, but even once we get marching, it will be a long march. Even our existing one-movement-point Units are going to arrive late to the party relative to when we could have learned Railroad if we'd put our empire's resources into solely learning Railroad--every Unit that we build diverts resources that could have otherwise gone into building Wealth or Failure Gold to get us to Railroad faster.
We delay ourselves by building more troops (Argent would actually be a great place to build Wealth instead of troops, but we have no choice but to keep making troops).
Less so before, but now even more now that we've Cease Fired with Kublai, we're going to have to wait until Kublai becomes our Vassal before we can go after Mao, meaning even less time for our siege Units to march through Kublai's Road network to get to Mao.
Dhoomstriker
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I suggest that wait for nearer to the end of the game to settle that City, as it's going to be a drag on our economy and it's close enough to our empire that we can effectively settle it late.
One of the last items is to settle there--we'll have other priorities for Settlers, needing at least 2 for Mao's lands (one on the peninsula and one to expand our Cultural Borders as far as the peninsula). For now, we need that Settler for a City to gift to Gandhi, and thus we should have 2 Musketeers escorting Workers, 2 Islamic Missionaries (and later possibly more than 2), and that Settler toward the Ice Hills to the east of Persepolis. We cannot gift Gandhi a City unless we settle a City in an area with no Culture and that is within several squares of distance from one of Gandhi's existing Cities. If you aren't clear what I mean, please ask.
I'd suggest sending 2 Musketeers for safety purposes. At least after Cease Firing with Russia, the path through Darius' lands should be relatively clear.
Sending these Units (3 Workers, 2 Islamic Missionaries--and a 3rd one once we build one as a backup option, a Settler, and 2 Musketeers) to the east of Persepolis is very important, because we won't be able to do it later if Darius decides to go to war with us.
If we lose too many troops doing it, Kublai might not Vassal to us, meaning that our troops will not be able to head toward Mao.
In order to Capitulate Kublai, 3 things must happen:
i. We must not have any other Vassal (according to this SGOTM's special rules)
ii. We must have 40 or more War Success against Kublai (we get that from capturing 4 Cities from him and not losing any battles to him) than he has against us; the higher the ratio that we have, the sooner that he'll be willing to talk with us
iii. We must have enough Power, which mostly comes from Military Units, to scare Kublai into believing that we would crush him
Another item probably needs to happen:
iv. Kublai isn't afraid of going to war with whomever we are at war with--with Kublai and Joao not knowing each other, I'm not sure what will happen, but Kublai might say something like "That is not possible for us."
Do you have a saved game from the turn when Kublai was willing to talk with us but before we Cease Fired with Kublai? If so, you could check to see what Kublai was saying, but make sure that the game is paused. I also don't recommend loading an autosaved game, as loading an autosaved game can retrigger a reloading action if we respond to a prompt (such as an Apostolic Palace voting action).
That delayed timing is quite fine. Kublai won't talk after 0 turns of being at war with him.
If we see another Resolution to assign away a City, if we choose to vote No, so that we can still win an Apostolic Palace Victory (Voting Defy could prevent us from winning an AP Victory by stripping our membership status), note that we could prevent the loss of a City by gifting it away before the turn ends.
I am going to supper. Dhoom it might be quicker if you play the next few turns.
T140, 600AD (contnued)
Research rate 0%
Espionage rate 0% on Joao
Workers around St. Pete and Rostov start moving as per PPP
Settler (accompanied by Musketeer) from Orleans moves west along roads toward gold hill
We cease fire with Stalin.
We Gift Orenburg, Yar, Moscow and Transylvania to Kublai (no gold required)
We Declare war on Kublai.
We capture Moscow (in revolt build wealth).
We capture Transylvania (start lighthouse).
We capture Yar (in revolt build wealth).
Cannot reach Orenburg this turn. Will Capture next turn.
Orleans starts on Christian missionary for Alexandria.
We fire 2 Scientists in London.
Between Turns: Our Trireme sink Joaos Trireme. Joaos galley sinks our Trireme.
We are in Despotism.
T141, 620AD
Research rate 0%
Espionage rate 0% on Joao
St.Pete hires Artist (GP next turn) Stagnant growth. Could grow if work Farm or fish instead of Fur..
Rostov finishes Elephant starts Settler.
Musketeer kills Kublais scout.
We capture Orenburg (in resistance building wealth).
Kublai will not Capitulate. How to proceed?
Lief Ericson sinks Joaos wounded Galley.
Argent needs an MP so building a Musketeer. (replace with barb busting warrior?)
Alexandria 1-pop whips Theater.
The logs:
Session Turn Log from 600 AD to 620 AD:
Autolog:
The Save:
T140, 600AD (contnued)
Research rate 0%
Espionage rate 0% on Joao
Workers around St. Pete and Rostov start moving as per PPP
Settler (accompanied by Musketeer) from Orleans moves west along roads toward gold hill
We cease fire with Stalin.
We Gift Orenburg, Yar, Moscow and Transylvania to Kublai (no gold required)
We Declare war on Kublai.
We capture Moscow (in revolt build wealth).
We capture Transylvania (start lighthouse).
We capture Yar (in revolt build wealth).
Cannot reach Orenburg this turn. Will Capture next turn.
Orleans starts on Christian missionary for Alexandria.
We fire 2 Scientists in London.
Between Turns: Our Trireme sink Joaos Trireme. Joaos galley sinks our Trireme.
We are in Despotism.
T141, 620AD
Research rate 0%
Espionage rate 0% on Joao
St.Pete hires Artist (GP next turn) Stagnant growth. Could grow if work Farm or fish instead of Fur..
Rostov finishes Elephant starts Settler.
Musketeer kills Kublais scout.
We capture Orenburg (in resistance building wealth).
Kublai will not Capitulate. How to proceed?
Lief Ericson sinks Joaos wounded Galley.
Argent needs an MP so building a Musketeer. (replace with barb busting warrior?)
Alexandria 1-pop whips Theater.
The logs:
Session Turn Log from 600 AD to 620 AD:
Spoiler :
Autolog:
Spoiler :
The Save:
Dhoomstriker
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Fair enough.
Sounds like pretty decent luck. It sounds like you also dealt with Joao's Galley, which is great!
Good suggestion. I'll take a closer look.
It depends upon what message he says. I don't know all of the messages, but I am going to make an assumption that since he hasn't met Joao, and since we're at war with Joao, he'll say something like "It's out of our hands," meaning that we'd temporarily need to Cease Fire with Joao... but, we'd then need to redeclare war on Joao if we want to avoid Joao Peace Vassalling to an AI.
If we eliminate Joao, we cannot make Lisbon a Legendary City, and we can't currently use Hatty or Churchill for the London recipient, so we probably should try hard to keep Joao alive to take at least London from us later, and thus we'll have to declare war on Joao again after Cease Firing with Joao, to avoid Joao joining with a stronger AI toward whom he is Pleased.
Good call.
Great news!
The Warrior is a wise suggestion. I'm doubtful that we'll have time to resettle Yakutsk, unless we find somewhere else to build a Settler, but we might just do it at the end of the game for fun.
Talking with Hatty confirms that we cannot ask someone else's Vassal for their City, so if Joao were to become someone else's Vassal, the only way for us to get a gift City back from Joao would be to declare war on the Master as well as on Joao, which could get unnecessarily complicated and messy.
Kublai refuses to Vassal to us because "We're doing fine on our own."
We don't scare him enough. We'll not only need more troops, but we'll have to cut him down to size.
Dhoomstriker
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PPP
Great Person Plan:
St. Pete's gets the 500 GPP Great Person
St. Pete's gets the 600 GPP Great Person
XO Cognac gets the 700 GPP Great Person
London gets the 800 GPP Great Person
St. Pete's gets the 900 GPP Great Person
Legendary Cities Plan:
Spies Fortify in London
Spies Fortify in Alexandria
Warring Plan:
Take our troops to Kublai's front door, get back to Drafting so that we can increase our Power, and try to capitulate Kublai
Remain at war with Joao for an indefinite period of time so that he won't Peace Vassal to another AI, unless that AI is willing to be at war with us
Apostolic Palace Plan:
If we are asked to give another City to Hatty, I suggest that vote "No," and stop play. We might consider gifting the City to Churchill before that turn is over, or we may see that we have enough Apostolic Palace Votes on our own to block that Apostolic Palace Resolution from going through
Paris grows and works Cottages and ensures that it has enough Happiness to continue doing so.
Change in plan: Islamic Missionary 3 went to the west. So, he will try to spread in one of our existing Cities, where we'll whip an Islamic Monastery and Islamic Missionaries, or simply fail to spread
Hamburg builds a Christian Temple, which will be required to have a shot at getting a Great Person there
Ruby Bay is going to help to get Islam spread around domestically
St. Pete's works its Fish
XO Cognac will try to get more Specialist slots
It looks like the Granaries in Moscow and Yar are gone, so they're not going to contribute much to our empire
Alexandria can stop working 2-H squares for a turn and will hire Artists next turn
Jackpot will work a Helper Cottage instead of Coast
We have 7 turns until the next Resolution from the Apostolic Palace
Slowly Bombard at Joao and block his Hammer-based squares
Spies will congregate in both London and Alexandria and Fortify in those Cities
Great Person Plan:
St. Pete's gets the 500 GPP Great Person
St. Pete's gets the 600 GPP Great Person
XO Cognac gets the 700 GPP Great Person
London gets the 800 GPP Great Person
St. Pete's gets the 900 GPP Great Person
Legendary Cities Plan:
Spies Fortify in London
Spies Fortify in Alexandria
Warring Plan:
Take our troops to Kublai's front door, get back to Drafting so that we can increase our Power, and try to capitulate Kublai
Remain at war with Joao for an indefinite period of time so that he won't Peace Vassal to another AI, unless that AI is willing to be at war with us
Apostolic Palace Plan:
If we are asked to give another City to Hatty, I suggest that vote "No," and stop play. We might consider gifting the City to Churchill before that turn is over, or we may see that we have enough Apostolic Palace Votes on our own to block that Apostolic Palace Resolution from going through
Paris grows and works Cottages and ensures that it has enough Happiness to continue doing so.
Change in plan: Islamic Missionary 3 went to the west. So, he will try to spread in one of our existing Cities, where we'll whip an Islamic Monastery and Islamic Missionaries, or simply fail to spread
Hamburg builds a Christian Temple, which will be required to have a shot at getting a Great Person there
Ruby Bay is going to help to get Islam spread around domestically
St. Pete's works its Fish
XO Cognac will try to get more Specialist slots
It looks like the Granaries in Moscow and Yar are gone, so they're not going to contribute much to our empire
Alexandria can stop working 2-H squares for a turn and will hire Artists next turn
Jackpot will work a Helper Cottage instead of Coast
We have 7 turns until the next Resolution from the Apostolic Palace
Slowly Bombard at Joao and block his Hammer-based squares
Spies will congregate in both London and Alexandria and Fortify in those Cities
Dhoomstriker
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Turnset Report
T141, 620 AD
Paris builds a Theatre, as we're going to need the Happiness as we continue to grow and as War Weariness mounts
Jackpot works a Cottage for Paris, allowing Paris to work a different Cottage
Lyons prefers to work a Windmill in place of a Forest, earning 2 extra Commerce per turn
Argent builds a Treb because a Treb can also act as a Military Police Unit and we're going to need all of the siege Units that we can get with all of the warring that we have ahead of us
Ruby Bay starts on an Islamic Missionary
One nice item to note is that some of our Drafting Unhappiness is wearing off
Joao is building a Trireme in Oporto, so we do the same in Lyons
Istanbul works a Fish
We get our army headed toward Kublai's Cities
We're likely going to have to go back into Nationhood as soon as we can, to help with increasing our Power level
T142, 640 AD
One nasty item to consider is that Frederick is likely to get to Macemen before we're ready to do anything to him
Stalin may also get Macemen, or at least Crossbowmen
Lyons whips another Trireme
Paris is dangerously hurting for Happiness
XO Cognac needs some non-Scientist Specialist slots and will also make a Theatre
Orleans will keep making Christian Missionaries for backups for Alexandria and for possible future resettled Cities
London will take too long to build a Market but can build a Theatre instead for the extra Culture and for cheaper Specialist slots
Islam spreads in Cologne from the Missionary who got lost and we promptly start on an Islamic Monastery there
We block as many squares around Oporto with our troops as we can, except for the Coast squares
Churchill has finally made an Archer in Katty
Edirne micros to get its Courthouse 1 turn earlier and grow at the same time
Galleys align themselves to transport the Christian Missionary to Alexandria
6 turns until the next Apostolic Palace Resolution
Darius and Gandhi have Feudalism, taking away any even miniscule thought of winning by Conquest
T143, 660 AD
An unfortunate event occurs: Joao Vassals to Kublai
We get a Great Artist
Kublai makes a dash at Moscow with 4 Units, being 1 square short of reaching Moscow
I suggest City Raider Promotions for our Catapult and Trebuchets, as Barrage is known to be a terrible Promotion, with possibly grabbing Accuracy after City Raider I
Saladin stuffs Jerusalem full of Protective Archers
If we can dare to switch into Free Religion for a few turns, there's a chance that we'd be able to bribe Saladin or Mao into wars. A chance. I'm not sure at this point if it will be worth that chance
With Joao capitulating to Kublai, as we're unlikely to get Kublai capitulating to us easily, since an AI with a Vassal is very hard to Capitulate.
I switch Espionage targets to Churchill, as we may be forced to kill off Joao in order to capitulate Kublai--we also can't have Joao feeding techs to his Master, Kublai
If Joao dies, Lisbon won't become Legendary, our EPs against Joao will be lost, but it may be our best way to get Kublai to Capitulate. We'll just have to try to make some progress against Kublai and see what happens
Stalin will Peace Vassal at Pleased, but Churchill will only Peace Vassal at Friendly, so he's going to continue to be our best buddy, as Churchill is not Friendly toward anyone and thus he will continue to be a great AI to whom to gift Cities, with the exception of London.
I think that we're also going to have to slip into Free Religion, despite the loss of GPP, to see if we can get a war ally or two
And, we may then have to just go to war against Mao and Hatty in order to get Thebes back, even though we'll suffer from some nasty War Weariness
T144, 680 AD
Kublai is doing what he can to help us by NOT taking techs from Joao (perhaps he needs something to trade to Joao)
Also, Kublai suicides 4 units against Moscow
Kublai still is "Doing fine on his own," though
We lose 2 Cats and 2 Musketeers, but Oporto is ours
We also take out Joao's Trireme with our Trireme
We have a tough decision to make about Joao:
a) Keep him alive so that Lisbon can become a Legendary City
OR
b) Kill him off and have a reasonable chance at Capitulating Kublai
We also need to decide whether to switch into Free Religion for the chance to bribe Mao or Saladin into a war. Either of them can be bribed at Pleased
Saladin can be bribed against anyone toward whom he is Annoyed or Furious
Mao can be bribed against anyone toward whom he is Pleased to lower
No, scratch that, take that option off of the table, because we lost the ability to switch into Free Religion when we lost Thebes. Okay, then it could be No State Religion, but that choice doesn't sound nearly as good.
Saladin won't be any help in a war, but he might give extra Power on our side to force Kublai to Capitulate--but, then we'd have to declare war on Saladin
Mao is less likely to get up to Pleased by only losing -2 for a Heathen Religion, so let's forget it and make the best of what we have got... Nationhood for Drafting, Hereditary Rule because we can, and staying in Pacifism
Drafts:
Cologne, Aberdeen, and Ruby Bay
For now, we can get into position to possibly eliminate Joao but won't do it, but can do it if Joao starts feeding techs to Kublai or if we make significant headway in attacking Kublai with Kublai still not wanting to Capitulate
Christianity spreads successfully in Alexandria, so something is going our way
Hereditary Rule has helped with calming our Unhappiness issues slightly
We're going to have to pay attention to which Cities should Draft and thus be careful about Whipping Cities that are good candidates for Drafting
What we could plan to do, though, is play with our Religion... either No State Religion or Islam, right around the time of the Apostolic Palace Resolution, either to get wars started that Saladin might vote to end or to get additional Votes to be able to block a Resolution with a No Vote
Rostov can build a Barracks and then Longbowmen, as it's getting high time that we start defending our Cities, and sending Spies built there through German territory just risks Spies auto-dying
T145, 700 AD
Let's collect Gold while in Nationhood and then go to 100% Science when we're back in Bureaucracy... if we learn Guilds, we won't be able to build Chariots, so now's sort of our last chance to build any Chariots that we may want for cheap Military Police
We put a Settler on a Galley for our Resort and we start to build a Road where the Resort will be placed... with good micro, we can move Galley 1 (at 1 NW of St. Pete's) into Transylvania next turn, then remember to Unload the Settler inside of Transylvania (even though Galley 1 will have 0 movement points to it) and then we wait for Worker 3 to complete the Road at the Resort location and we'll finally settle our Resort, yay!
We have 2 Settlers on their way to the Xian area, so that we can gift 1 City to Mao and 1 City to Gandhi
I was originally thinking that we'd put 2 Cities in the Ice Hills, but it looks like we could put one there for Mao on T147 (labelled "Mao Gift City"), then put one actually out of the Ice Hills area at 2 NE + 1 E of Susa for Gandhi (labelled "Gandhi Gift City"). Gandhi will perhaps improve the Banana and grow the City, but it will also be nice to ensure that he has Islam and to get our Islamic Missionary slot back
We can play 3 more turns until the F8 MEMBERS screen says "Turns until next Vote," at which point we're going to have to make some sort of a decision as to what to do--do we switch into No State Religion and try to bribe Mao to attack Kublai and try to bribe Saladin to attack Gandhi? Doing so might be the way to play, with us having troops ready to take down Thebes
We can prepare some Galleys with troops on them at 2 SW of Athens--say, 2 Axemen, a Horse Archer, and a Musketeer, who are currently all on Galleys.
We might want some additional troops to help out from the troops around Macau
As for Macau, here's what I'm going to suggest:
T145: Cat 14 and Cat 19 move to 1 SW of Macau (currently at 2 SW of Macau) and Bombard
Then, we attack with HA 9 (currently 1 N of Macau) and try to damage the Maceman (ideally, we'd kill the Maceman, but I doubt that it will work)
The goal will be to make it so that our War Elephant 1 (at 1 SW of Macau) will get good odds against Joao's Maceman. If we can kill his Maceman but not kill his Horse Archer, then we won't need to keep so many troops in the area and will be able to kill Joao off later if we decide to do so
If necessary, we have a Muskteer aboard our Leif Galley at 1 N of Spice Girls Island, where the Galley could move into Lyons next turn, unload the Musketeer, and help out with the attack, but I think that going in with our well-promoted Horse Archer 9 who has a chance to retreat (and then a backup Horse Archer if our first Horse Archer hardly scratches the Maceman), to give our War Elephant 1 decent odds against the Maceman, is the way to place, since the defending Horse Archer is unlikely to come up as a defender against our War Elephant 1, and we don't want to kill the defending Horse Archer just yet, as it looks like Joao isn't feeding techs to Kublai
Our Catapults can Bombard at Beshbalik on T146, then our Trebs can attack the City, and hopefully our remaining Units will be sufficient to take down the City
After Beshbalik, I suggest that we backtrack to take down Ning-hsia, so that we won't have to defend Moscow and Yar with Musketeers and can just keep 1 War Elephant in each of them. After Ning-hisa, march south-eastward to Kublai's capital of Karakorum. Once an AI loses their Capital, they are generally much more willing to Capitulate, and Capitulating Kublai still remains a high priority goal
We have a Christian Missionary that could probably be sent toward Rostov, for future use in a City that we resettle out of Mao's Cities
Since we can gift an City to Mao (first spread Islam in the City and then gift it) soon, after that point, we could potentially slip into No State Religion and try to bribe Mao against Kublai and Saladin against Gandhi
If we're able to get Mao to attack Kublai and we have gifted the Islam City to Mao, we can then possibly plan to attack Hatty and retake Thebes, thereby also declaring war on Mao, which might make it easier to Capitulate Kublai, since Kublai would already be at war with Mao... if we retake Thebes, we'd be able to switch Civics again, probably to Representation + Bureaucracy + Free Religion, with Free Religion negating the fact that we'd slipped into No State Religion
According to the current plan, St. Pete's will get the next Great Person, but we may need to re-evaluate that plan if we slip into No State Religion, as then Pacifism's bonus GPP wouldn't apply
We need to Draft this turn, but I am losing focus, so someone else should do the Drafting this turn
Courthouses are not bad build items, as they give us extra EPs
Istanbul is building 2 Work Boats--one for Orenburg and the second one for Edirne
I was really hoping to be able to work more Flood Plains squares in Alexandria, but Hatty's Culture is just too strong
If we do Draft any Units in Egypt, I'd suggest doing so after a couple of turns from now and then sending them to Memphis, where we could have a backup option of attacking Thebes by land if an amphibious assault won't be easy and thus we'd drop off our troops from our Galleys next to Thebes instead of amphibiously assaulting Thebes, to be joined by whomever we Drafted in Africa
Overall, I don't think that I've changed the game situation all that much and have mostly just been pushing us forward. With some careful planning, after 2 turns or 3 turns maximum, before the next Apostolic Palace Resolution, if Kublai hasn't Capitulated to us, we can switch into No State Religion on the F7 RELIGIONS screen and then try to bribe Saladin against Gandhi and Mao against Kublai, then, when we feel ready, after having gifted a City with Islam in it to Mao, we can declare war on Mao, allowing us to recapture Thebes
The Great People are going to be tricky--we'll want to get our next Great Person out of St. Pete's, but as soon as we get it, we'll want to hire more Specialists in XO Cognac and in London--XO Cognac should get the 700-GPP Great Person, but if XO Cognac and London are set to both generate the 700-GPP Great Person on the same turn as each other, it will appear in XO Cognac, giving London a bit of a head start on the 800-GPP Great Person
Alexandria is low on Spies, so we'll need to whip more of them in Egypt over time, while also keeping in mind that we'll probably want to Draft in Ivory Coast, say, 1 turn from now on T146, to have a Musketeer to sit in Memphis, with Memphis possibly waiting to Draft only if an amphibious assault on Hatty will fail after we've gifted an Islam City to Mao and have tried to bribe the AIs into war with each other, since a Unit Drafted in Memphis can march forward on the turn that it gets Drafted
Cologne should 2-pop-whip its Missionary on T145, then try to spread it to a City which can be reached on the same turn (say, Hamburg), after which point Cologne would be able to build another Islamic Missionary (we can only have 3 Islamic Missionaries at once and we have 2 of them in the east getting ready to spread in Gift Cities)
I'm not sure if Hamburg or Alexandria will ever have a chance to generate Great People, but we can keep trying, in case this game drags on for a very long time
Jackpot could 1-pop-whip its Courthouse next turn, since the Chop wasn't needed for our Granary, giving us lower expenses and more EPs
I just noticed that Memphis has an unimproved Flood Plains square, so I've marked that spot with a Watermill sign--next turn, we can have one Worker (say, Worker 2) head west to Gold Coast's PH square to Road and then Windmill it, while the other workers could improve the Watermill for Memphis
We still need a lot of Spies for both London and Alexandria, so do not feel shy about whipping Spies, especially after Drafting a City that has too much Unhappiness to Draft repeatedly; even 1-pop-whipping Spies can be okay in Cities with a lot of excess Happiness
Just make sure that we DO NOT Whip or Draft in our Great-Person-generation Cities:
London, Hamburg, XO Cognac, St. Pete's, and Alexandria
Most of the AIs know Feudalism and Mao knows Paper (but doesn't yet know Education), so keep an eye on Mao to learn Education, meaning we may have to go for Liberalism prematurely, or at least dump some EPs on him to see if we'll need to compete with him for Liberalism
Saved game from Central
Whoever can pick it up, say so in the thread so that we don't have 2 people playing. If you play, try to put together some plans for the next player. The Religion switching to No State Religion in 3 turns and the subsequent attempted war bribing is probably going to the trickiest part
T141, 620 AD
Paris builds a Theatre, as we're going to need the Happiness as we continue to grow and as War Weariness mounts
Jackpot works a Cottage for Paris, allowing Paris to work a different Cottage
Lyons prefers to work a Windmill in place of a Forest, earning 2 extra Commerce per turn
Argent builds a Treb because a Treb can also act as a Military Police Unit and we're going to need all of the siege Units that we can get with all of the warring that we have ahead of us
Ruby Bay starts on an Islamic Missionary
One nice item to note is that some of our Drafting Unhappiness is wearing off
Joao is building a Trireme in Oporto, so we do the same in Lyons
Istanbul works a Fish
We get our army headed toward Kublai's Cities
We're likely going to have to go back into Nationhood as soon as we can, to help with increasing our Power level
T142, 640 AD
One nasty item to consider is that Frederick is likely to get to Macemen before we're ready to do anything to him
Stalin may also get Macemen, or at least Crossbowmen
Lyons whips another Trireme
Paris is dangerously hurting for Happiness
XO Cognac needs some non-Scientist Specialist slots and will also make a Theatre
Orleans will keep making Christian Missionaries for backups for Alexandria and for possible future resettled Cities
London will take too long to build a Market but can build a Theatre instead for the extra Culture and for cheaper Specialist slots
Islam spreads in Cologne from the Missionary who got lost and we promptly start on an Islamic Monastery there
We block as many squares around Oporto with our troops as we can, except for the Coast squares
Churchill has finally made an Archer in Katty
Edirne micros to get its Courthouse 1 turn earlier and grow at the same time
Galleys align themselves to transport the Christian Missionary to Alexandria
6 turns until the next Apostolic Palace Resolution
Darius and Gandhi have Feudalism, taking away any even miniscule thought of winning by Conquest
T143, 660 AD
An unfortunate event occurs: Joao Vassals to Kublai
We get a Great Artist
Kublai makes a dash at Moscow with 4 Units, being 1 square short of reaching Moscow
I suggest City Raider Promotions for our Catapult and Trebuchets, as Barrage is known to be a terrible Promotion, with possibly grabbing Accuracy after City Raider I
Saladin stuffs Jerusalem full of Protective Archers
If we can dare to switch into Free Religion for a few turns, there's a chance that we'd be able to bribe Saladin or Mao into wars. A chance. I'm not sure at this point if it will be worth that chance
With Joao capitulating to Kublai, as we're unlikely to get Kublai capitulating to us easily, since an AI with a Vassal is very hard to Capitulate.
I switch Espionage targets to Churchill, as we may be forced to kill off Joao in order to capitulate Kublai--we also can't have Joao feeding techs to his Master, Kublai
If Joao dies, Lisbon won't become Legendary, our EPs against Joao will be lost, but it may be our best way to get Kublai to Capitulate. We'll just have to try to make some progress against Kublai and see what happens
Stalin will Peace Vassal at Pleased, but Churchill will only Peace Vassal at Friendly, so he's going to continue to be our best buddy, as Churchill is not Friendly toward anyone and thus he will continue to be a great AI to whom to gift Cities, with the exception of London.
I think that we're also going to have to slip into Free Religion, despite the loss of GPP, to see if we can get a war ally or two
And, we may then have to just go to war against Mao and Hatty in order to get Thebes back, even though we'll suffer from some nasty War Weariness
T144, 680 AD
Kublai is doing what he can to help us by NOT taking techs from Joao (perhaps he needs something to trade to Joao)
Also, Kublai suicides 4 units against Moscow
Kublai still is "Doing fine on his own," though
We lose 2 Cats and 2 Musketeers, but Oporto is ours
We also take out Joao's Trireme with our Trireme
We have a tough decision to make about Joao:
a) Keep him alive so that Lisbon can become a Legendary City
OR
b) Kill him off and have a reasonable chance at Capitulating Kublai
We also need to decide whether to switch into Free Religion for the chance to bribe Mao or Saladin into a war. Either of them can be bribed at Pleased
Saladin can be bribed against anyone toward whom he is Annoyed or Furious
Mao can be bribed against anyone toward whom he is Pleased to lower
No, scratch that, take that option off of the table, because we lost the ability to switch into Free Religion when we lost Thebes. Okay, then it could be No State Religion, but that choice doesn't sound nearly as good.
Saladin won't be any help in a war, but he might give extra Power on our side to force Kublai to Capitulate--but, then we'd have to declare war on Saladin
Mao is less likely to get up to Pleased by only losing -2 for a Heathen Religion, so let's forget it and make the best of what we have got... Nationhood for Drafting, Hereditary Rule because we can, and staying in Pacifism
Drafts:
Cologne, Aberdeen, and Ruby Bay
For now, we can get into position to possibly eliminate Joao but won't do it, but can do it if Joao starts feeding techs to Kublai or if we make significant headway in attacking Kublai with Kublai still not wanting to Capitulate
Christianity spreads successfully in Alexandria, so something is going our way
Hereditary Rule has helped with calming our Unhappiness issues slightly
We're going to have to pay attention to which Cities should Draft and thus be careful about Whipping Cities that are good candidates for Drafting
What we could plan to do, though, is play with our Religion... either No State Religion or Islam, right around the time of the Apostolic Palace Resolution, either to get wars started that Saladin might vote to end or to get additional Votes to be able to block a Resolution with a No Vote
Rostov can build a Barracks and then Longbowmen, as it's getting high time that we start defending our Cities, and sending Spies built there through German territory just risks Spies auto-dying
T145, 700 AD
Let's collect Gold while in Nationhood and then go to 100% Science when we're back in Bureaucracy... if we learn Guilds, we won't be able to build Chariots, so now's sort of our last chance to build any Chariots that we may want for cheap Military Police
We put a Settler on a Galley for our Resort and we start to build a Road where the Resort will be placed... with good micro, we can move Galley 1 (at 1 NW of St. Pete's) into Transylvania next turn, then remember to Unload the Settler inside of Transylvania (even though Galley 1 will have 0 movement points to it) and then we wait for Worker 3 to complete the Road at the Resort location and we'll finally settle our Resort, yay!
We have 2 Settlers on their way to the Xian area, so that we can gift 1 City to Mao and 1 City to Gandhi
I was originally thinking that we'd put 2 Cities in the Ice Hills, but it looks like we could put one there for Mao on T147 (labelled "Mao Gift City"), then put one actually out of the Ice Hills area at 2 NE + 1 E of Susa for Gandhi (labelled "Gandhi Gift City"). Gandhi will perhaps improve the Banana and grow the City, but it will also be nice to ensure that he has Islam and to get our Islamic Missionary slot back
We can play 3 more turns until the F8 MEMBERS screen says "Turns until next Vote," at which point we're going to have to make some sort of a decision as to what to do--do we switch into No State Religion and try to bribe Mao to attack Kublai and try to bribe Saladin to attack Gandhi? Doing so might be the way to play, with us having troops ready to take down Thebes
We can prepare some Galleys with troops on them at 2 SW of Athens--say, 2 Axemen, a Horse Archer, and a Musketeer, who are currently all on Galleys.
We might want some additional troops to help out from the troops around Macau
As for Macau, here's what I'm going to suggest:
T145: Cat 14 and Cat 19 move to 1 SW of Macau (currently at 2 SW of Macau) and Bombard
Then, we attack with HA 9 (currently 1 N of Macau) and try to damage the Maceman (ideally, we'd kill the Maceman, but I doubt that it will work)
The goal will be to make it so that our War Elephant 1 (at 1 SW of Macau) will get good odds against Joao's Maceman. If we can kill his Maceman but not kill his Horse Archer, then we won't need to keep so many troops in the area and will be able to kill Joao off later if we decide to do so
If necessary, we have a Muskteer aboard our Leif Galley at 1 N of Spice Girls Island, where the Galley could move into Lyons next turn, unload the Musketeer, and help out with the attack, but I think that going in with our well-promoted Horse Archer 9 who has a chance to retreat (and then a backup Horse Archer if our first Horse Archer hardly scratches the Maceman), to give our War Elephant 1 decent odds against the Maceman, is the way to place, since the defending Horse Archer is unlikely to come up as a defender against our War Elephant 1, and we don't want to kill the defending Horse Archer just yet, as it looks like Joao isn't feeding techs to Kublai
Our Catapults can Bombard at Beshbalik on T146, then our Trebs can attack the City, and hopefully our remaining Units will be sufficient to take down the City
After Beshbalik, I suggest that we backtrack to take down Ning-hsia, so that we won't have to defend Moscow and Yar with Musketeers and can just keep 1 War Elephant in each of them. After Ning-hisa, march south-eastward to Kublai's capital of Karakorum. Once an AI loses their Capital, they are generally much more willing to Capitulate, and Capitulating Kublai still remains a high priority goal
We have a Christian Missionary that could probably be sent toward Rostov, for future use in a City that we resettle out of Mao's Cities
Since we can gift an City to Mao (first spread Islam in the City and then gift it) soon, after that point, we could potentially slip into No State Religion and try to bribe Mao against Kublai and Saladin against Gandhi
If we're able to get Mao to attack Kublai and we have gifted the Islam City to Mao, we can then possibly plan to attack Hatty and retake Thebes, thereby also declaring war on Mao, which might make it easier to Capitulate Kublai, since Kublai would already be at war with Mao... if we retake Thebes, we'd be able to switch Civics again, probably to Representation + Bureaucracy + Free Religion, with Free Religion negating the fact that we'd slipped into No State Religion
According to the current plan, St. Pete's will get the next Great Person, but we may need to re-evaluate that plan if we slip into No State Religion, as then Pacifism's bonus GPP wouldn't apply
We need to Draft this turn, but I am losing focus, so someone else should do the Drafting this turn
Courthouses are not bad build items, as they give us extra EPs
Istanbul is building 2 Work Boats--one for Orenburg and the second one for Edirne
I was really hoping to be able to work more Flood Plains squares in Alexandria, but Hatty's Culture is just too strong
If we do Draft any Units in Egypt, I'd suggest doing so after a couple of turns from now and then sending them to Memphis, where we could have a backup option of attacking Thebes by land if an amphibious assault won't be easy and thus we'd drop off our troops from our Galleys next to Thebes instead of amphibiously assaulting Thebes, to be joined by whomever we Drafted in Africa
Overall, I don't think that I've changed the game situation all that much and have mostly just been pushing us forward. With some careful planning, after 2 turns or 3 turns maximum, before the next Apostolic Palace Resolution, if Kublai hasn't Capitulated to us, we can switch into No State Religion on the F7 RELIGIONS screen and then try to bribe Saladin against Gandhi and Mao against Kublai, then, when we feel ready, after having gifted a City with Islam in it to Mao, we can declare war on Mao, allowing us to recapture Thebes
The Great People are going to be tricky--we'll want to get our next Great Person out of St. Pete's, but as soon as we get it, we'll want to hire more Specialists in XO Cognac and in London--XO Cognac should get the 700-GPP Great Person, but if XO Cognac and London are set to both generate the 700-GPP Great Person on the same turn as each other, it will appear in XO Cognac, giving London a bit of a head start on the 800-GPP Great Person
Alexandria is low on Spies, so we'll need to whip more of them in Egypt over time, while also keeping in mind that we'll probably want to Draft in Ivory Coast, say, 1 turn from now on T146, to have a Musketeer to sit in Memphis, with Memphis possibly waiting to Draft only if an amphibious assault on Hatty will fail after we've gifted an Islam City to Mao and have tried to bribe the AIs into war with each other, since a Unit Drafted in Memphis can march forward on the turn that it gets Drafted
Cologne should 2-pop-whip its Missionary on T145, then try to spread it to a City which can be reached on the same turn (say, Hamburg), after which point Cologne would be able to build another Islamic Missionary (we can only have 3 Islamic Missionaries at once and we have 2 of them in the east getting ready to spread in Gift Cities)
I'm not sure if Hamburg or Alexandria will ever have a chance to generate Great People, but we can keep trying, in case this game drags on for a very long time
Jackpot could 1-pop-whip its Courthouse next turn, since the Chop wasn't needed for our Granary, giving us lower expenses and more EPs
I just noticed that Memphis has an unimproved Flood Plains square, so I've marked that spot with a Watermill sign--next turn, we can have one Worker (say, Worker 2) head west to Gold Coast's PH square to Road and then Windmill it, while the other workers could improve the Watermill for Memphis
We still need a lot of Spies for both London and Alexandria, so do not feel shy about whipping Spies, especially after Drafting a City that has too much Unhappiness to Draft repeatedly; even 1-pop-whipping Spies can be okay in Cities with a lot of excess Happiness
Just make sure that we DO NOT Whip or Draft in our Great-Person-generation Cities:
London, Hamburg, XO Cognac, St. Pete's, and Alexandria
Most of the AIs know Feudalism and Mao knows Paper (but doesn't yet know Education), so keep an eye on Mao to learn Education, meaning we may have to go for Liberalism prematurely, or at least dump some EPs on him to see if we'll need to compete with him for Liberalism
Saved game from Central
Whoever can pick it up, say so in the thread so that we don't have 2 people playing. If you play, try to put together some plans for the next player. The Religion switching to No State Religion in 3 turns and the subsequent attempted war bribing is probably going to the trickiest part
I will try to play 3 turns, unless something unfamiliar happens.
Dhoom, if this game is to be finished in time, you are going to have to do the last of it, and the documentation can wait.
Dhoom, if this game is to be finished in time, you are going to have to do the last of it, and the documentation can wait.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
Best of luck!
In our test game, Saladin becomes Pleased toward us when we are at the top of the Scoreboard and he is third last in the Scoreboard at +4. The same is true when he is third on the Scoreboard.
In a new test game, Mao becomes Pleased toward us when we are at the top of the Scoreboard and he is either at the bottom or the top of the Scoreboard at +4.
In the real game, both of them are +1 toward us, with us able to remove -4 from Saladin for a Religion switch and -2 from Mao for a Religion switch.
We Opened Borders with Mao on T102, 325 BC (or perhaps 1 turn sooner), so we won't get another +1 until T152, which is unfortunate. Mao's Favourite Civic is State Property, so no luck there.
So, probably, at best, by switching into No State Religion, we could bribe Saladin to attack Kublai, unless over the next 3 turns we manage to get another +1 from Mao for Open Borders. Doing so might distract Saladin sufficiently to propose a Resolution such as Stop the War against Saladin. Doing so might also make Kublai more willing to Capitulate.
That said, since we're unlikely to get Mao to Pleased, we could simply switch into Islam instead of into No State Religion.
So, instead of having the whipped Islamic Missionary from Cologne spread into Hamburg, we could spread that Missionary in XO Cognac. And, as soon as we spread Islam somewhere, we can then start on an Islamic Missionary in Instanbul, which we could whip and spread in St. Pete's.
That way, our Votes would also be doubled, and we'd be in a much stronger position to control the AP Votes, while still getting Pacifism's benefits in most of our Great-Person-generating Cities.
Sorry this took so long. RL intervened repeatedly.
Game progressed. Took Beshbalik with loss of a treb only, but no capitulation.
Here is Save from Central: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG023_AD0740_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
I will write a brief report shortly, and that will be all I can do for at least 6 hours, and little after that.
Good luck! Hope you can get it done.
Game progressed. Took Beshbalik with loss of a treb only, but no capitulation.
Here is Save from Central: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG023_AD0740_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
I will write a brief report shortly, and that will be all I can do for at least 6 hours, and little after that.
Good luck! Hope you can get it done.
T145: Execute plan, but cats SW of Macau can't be moved this turn and Cologne missionary has no hammers into it, so waiting a turn to whip it. Also, moved several units away from 1W of Beshbalik to minimize potential cat damage.
IBT:
We are worst enemy of Joao
Ghandi and others have gold to trade -- for Drama?
Beshbalik cats do attack our reduced stack, inflicting injury but loosing 2 cats and withdrawing another.
Saladin adopts Vassalage
T146:
Mace at Macau is so badly wounded by our HA that he doesn't confront our WE, so I delay attacking until he heals a bit and defends the city again.
IBT: A spy outed near St. Pete
Peace treaty with Fred canceled
Keshik shows up 2 west of Moscow. (WEs are in place.)
T147: Capture Besh and advance on Ning
Note that Karakorum is defended by only an archer and a sword, but on a hill.
Gift Mao Islamic city (2 turns away from making a similar gift to Gandhi.
Spot Russian HA and axe 1NE of Persepolis
Vote seems to be scheduled for next turn.
Have continued to draft 3 units each turn (one of those prematurely this turn in England)
IBT:
We are worst enemy of Joao
Ghandi and others have gold to trade -- for Drama?
Beshbalik cats do attack our reduced stack, inflicting injury but loosing 2 cats and withdrawing another.
Saladin adopts Vassalage
T146:
Mace at Macau is so badly wounded by our HA that he doesn't confront our WE, so I delay attacking until he heals a bit and defends the city again.
IBT: A spy outed near St. Pete
Peace treaty with Fred canceled
Keshik shows up 2 west of Moscow. (WEs are in place.)
T147: Capture Besh and advance on Ning
Note that Karakorum is defended by only an archer and a sword, but on a hill.
Gift Mao Islamic city (2 turns away from making a similar gift to Gandhi.
Spot Russian HA and axe 1NE of Persepolis
Vote seems to be scheduled for next turn.
Have continued to draft 3 units each turn (one of those prematurely this turn in England)
Well done Pete.
Dhoom, why don't you handle the AP vote.
Edit: XO Cognac and London both are due for a GP in 3 turns.
Dhoom, why don't you handle the AP vote.
Edit: XO Cognac and London both are due for a GP in 3 turns.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
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- Aug 12, 2006
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Without looking at the game, if the AP Resolution isn't what we like, the goal will be to change the parameters of it so that it is no longer possible for the outcome that we dislike to occur.
One annoying item might be stopping the war against us, which can occur when two AP Members are fighting against each other. We'd need to test if that came up, but one possibility might be to ensure that we capture all of Kublai's Islamic Cities (although testing would be needed to see if this condition is sufficient to stop the vote from going through), while another possibility might be to Cease Fire with Kublai (then re-gift and re-capture the 4 Cities yet again once the voting has failed and we have waited a turn for it to fail).
If it's gifting a City to Hatty, we can declare war on Mao + Hatty and by being at war, we should cancel the AP Resolution (testing would be needed to confirm this belief). If that approach doesn't work, gifting the City in question could work, but I'd rather try to keep the City instead of gifting it away, particularly if it's Alexandria, with its GPP in it.
If the AP Resolutions don't work out in our favour, at some point, we're going to need someone other than Churchill to whom to gift London, which is looking like it will be Stalin, since Stalin Peace Vassals at Pleased and he isn't Pleased toward anyone.
Churchill could get the other two Legendary Cities (Lisbon and Alexandria). One Great Artist performing a Culture Bomb would go a long way to reducing the number of Spies needed in a given City.
We should probably also tweak the GPP spreadsheet given how some Cities will be out of Pacifism.
One annoying item might be stopping the war against us, which can occur when two AP Members are fighting against each other. We'd need to test if that came up, but one possibility might be to ensure that we capture all of Kublai's Islamic Cities (although testing would be needed to see if this condition is sufficient to stop the vote from going through), while another possibility might be to Cease Fire with Kublai (then re-gift and re-capture the 4 Cities yet again once the voting has failed and we have waited a turn for it to fail).
If it's gifting a City to Hatty, we can declare war on Mao + Hatty and by being at war, we should cancel the AP Resolution (testing would be needed to confirm this belief). If that approach doesn't work, gifting the City in question could work, but I'd rather try to keep the City instead of gifting it away, particularly if it's Alexandria, with its GPP in it.
If the AP Resolutions don't work out in our favour, at some point, we're going to need someone other than Churchill to whom to gift London, which is looking like it will be Stalin, since Stalin Peace Vassals at Pleased and he isn't Pleased toward anyone.
Churchill could get the other two Legendary Cities (Lisbon and Alexandria). One Great Artist performing a Culture Bomb would go a long way to reducing the number of Spies needed in a given City.
We should probably also tweak the GPP spreadsheet given how some Cities will be out of Pacifism.
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