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[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

Does your tech count include techs for priesthood and mediation? For T75 our advantage is too big. These 2 techs are not in blue. Same for T95.
 
Does your tech count include techs for priesthood and mediation? For T75 our advantage is too big. These 2 techs are not in blue. Same for T95.
Oops, Home Slices are indeed missing Priesthood + Meditation on T75, T85, and T95.

I'll fix it in the morning, thanks Gumbolt. :)
 
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Thanks.
T75 science seems almost pretty even at 100% science.
T95 and PR running 20 scientists. Science at 0% was 133 compared to HS 145 at 100% science.
At 100% 286 beakers. (No whipping)
HS have 576 gold sitting in the bank. That's worth about 1240 beakers.
The 16 diference in pop here is essentially being used for rep scientists.A story that continues throughout game.

Not sure if possible are you interested in comparing fail gold? I suspect HS got loads this game. I think a lot of the tech advantage we have here soon dissapears when you get alphabet and meet the AI. It looks like you took a lot of decent FG from SH and GW. If you had not built GW that would be 100+ more.
 
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Early Caste was one of our major plans, yup.
Whipping phase between golden ages.

Helped that our most important :hammers: cities had no interest in Slavery.
Stone island to build stuff with Moai, Cap had no food anyways for whips..similar for Cows.
I considered Slavery a weak civic for most of the game, till Kremlin boosted super-whips very late.
 
Postgame Analysis Part 3
Link to Team Saves

Link to SGOTM 26 Game Rules (Requirements for Victory)

Link to Postgame Analysis Part 2

(Hold down Control on keyboard and left click links to open a new tab for easier viewing)


====================================

Homeslice
Turnset Report up to T101 and up to T105
Screenshots on T105

Phoenix Rising on Turn 105
Spoiler :











Phoenix Rising teched Machinery, Optics, and Calendar by T105
They received Polytheism and Monotheism from trades.
They also bulbed half of Astronomy for 1671:science:
Their teching assets are 235:science: from overflow :science:, 130:gold:, and 1 Great Engineer
Population is at 57 with 5 workers.
On Turn 105, their tech path to victory is at 11214:science:/138k (8.13% complete)
10091:science: is domestic research and 1123 is from AI trades.
Spoiler :
Turn 105


Mysticism (78)
Mining (78)
The Wheel (93)
Priesthood (93)
unlocks temples
Pottery (124)
Meditation (124)
Masonry (124)

Polytheism (156)
(Got for free from Charlemagne! :goodjob:)
Sailing (156)
Bronze Working (187)
Writing (187)

Monotheism (187)
(Got for free from Saladin! :goodjob:)
Literature (312)
Iron Working (312) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Mathematics (390)
Aesthetics (468)
Drama (468)
Alphabet (468)
Monarchy (468)
(Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Code of Laws (546)
Calendar (546)

Construction (546)
Currency (624)
Compass (624)
Metal Casting (702)

Theology (780)
Music (936)
Optics (936)
Paper (936)
Machinery (1092)
Feudalism (1092)
Banking (1092)
Civil Service (1248)
Philosophy (1248)
Engineering (1560)
Guilds (1560)
Gunpowder (1872)
Liberalism (2184)
Economics (2184)
Printing Press (2496)
Corporation (2496)
Nationalism (2808)
Education (2808)
Chemistry (2808)
Replaceable Parts (2808)
Astronomy (1671/3120)
Military Tradition (3120)
Constitution (3120)
Scientific Method (3744)
Communism (4368)
Steel (4368)
Steam Power (4992)
Biology (5616)
Mass Media (5616)
Physics (6240)
Refrigeration (6240)
Electricity (7020)
Assembly Line (7800)
Radio (9360)
Superconductors (10140)
Industrialism (10140)

Total - 138009:science:

100GPP Great Scientist used to bulb Philosophy complete (+1248:science:)
300GPP Great Scientist used to bulb Astronomy (+1671:science:)
200GPP Great Engineer born in South City on T98!
The 17% chance little guy (he's a Di Caprio) removes any possible chance of any AP disaster with an Industrious civ bulbing Theo and chopping it. :D
As long as the new AI are monitored after revealing their cities and PR can self-tech Theo before any AI gets it, they can build AP slowly in peace and use the Great Engineer for something else.

300GPP Great Scientist born in Northwest City on T104!
Quickly used to bulb the 1st half of Astro because East City starved down 1 pop to hurry along a 2nd Astro bulb I think.
Astro should be bulbed complete on T107 I think, adding 10 more foreign city trade routes. :crazyeye:

A 0.1% chance Confu spread to Russia occurred on T99 and Russia adopted it T100! :dubious::wow:
Tremendous luck that will quickly ensure a Friendly Peter!
Confu missionary spread to FarNW City T101 and the Galley could stay put.

Caravels were chopped complete in East and West City the turn Optics came in.
PR loaded up with a Tao + Confu missionary and sailed east and west to meet new AI and get +1:move: for circumnavigating the world.
No Tao monastery for the capital, it is churning out Confu missionaries constantly to spread the religion inside the empire.

The far northwestern workboat doubled back to explore the southern Russia coastline with +1 optics vision and met Bismarck T102!
Signed Open Borders

Western Caravel met Charlemagne T103!
He was at war with Bismarck, but was not Bismarck's worst enemy yet, so PR got a tech to improve relations and open borders was signed for the Tao Missionary to explore.
Charlie got Monarchy, Metal Casting, and Writing in return for giving PR Polytheism and perhaps a bit of :gold: over the next few turns.

Tao Missionary met Saladin on T105!
Signed Open Borders after gifting Code of Laws to Saladin I think.

PR begged Peter for something, probably :gold:


Homes Slices teched Paper, Polytheism, Monotheism, and some of Education by Turn 105.
They received Alphabet and Monarchy in trades.
Their teching assets are 548:gold: and 1 Great Scientist.
Population is at 44 with 6 Workers.
On Turn 105, their tech path to victory is at 6795:science:/137k (4.96% complete)
5859:science: is domestic research and 936 is from AI trades.
Spoiler :
Turn 105


Mysticism (78)
Mining (78)
The Wheel (93)
Priesthood (93)
unlocks temples
Pottery (124)
Meditation (124)
Masonry (124)

Polytheism (156)
Sailing (156)
Bronze Working (187)
Writing (187)

Literature (312)
Iron Working (312)
Mathematics (390)
Aesthetics (468)
Drama (468)
Alphabet (468) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Monarchy (468) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Code of Laws (546)
Calendar (546)
Construction (546)
Currency (624)
Compass (624)
Metal Casting (702)
Music (936)
Optics (936)
Paper (936)
Machinery (1092)
Feudalism (1092)
Banking (1092)
Civil Service (1248)
Philosophy (1248)
Engineering (1560)
Guilds (1560)
Gunpowder (1872)
Liberalism (2184)
Economics (2184)
Printing Press (2496)
Corporation (2496)
Nationalism (2808)
Education (715/2808)
Chemistry (2808)
Replaceable Parts (2808)
Astronomy (3120)
Military Tradition (3120)
Constitution (3120)
Scientific Method (3744)
Communism (4368)
Steel (4368)
Steam Power (4992)
Mass Media (5616)
Biology (5616)
Physics (6240)
Refrigeration (6240)
Electricity (7020)
Assembly Line (7800)
Radio (9360)
Superconductors (10140)
Industrialism (10140)

Total - 137042:science:
HS adopted Caste + Representation civics on T95 to squeeze out their 1st Great Person.
Then they adopted Confucianism T96 to help build diplo with Sitting Bull
Finally, HS adopted Slavery + Org. Religion on T102 to prepare for Oxford in Capital City.

Peter finally learned Alphabet on T101!
HS had some confusion on whether a recently born Russian Great Scientist bulbed it, but WT was pretty sure it was naturally teched and hoped for a Philo bulb.
HS traded Peter Code of Laws for Monarchy T101 and then Civil Service for Alphabet on T102.
Then Peter was bribed into Caste+Bureau T102 for Meditation and some gold.
+1 diplo for shared Civics, and a decisive boost in tech speed for Peter!

Using Meditation, Peter bulbed Philosophy complete on T103 and switched to Taosim. :eek: (WT was right, AI don't bulb small stuff)
HS was determined to send over enough Confu missionaries in the future and bribe Peter to Confu to get that free Philosophy at Friendly with +diplo from shared religion and civic.

Peter and Sitting Bull have still not met, so no Iron Working trade yet.

100GPP Great Scientist was born in Northwest City T105!
It will be used to bulb Education complete so Oxford can be chopped in Capital City.

Home Slices are putting more :hammers: into fail :gold: again, this time with Maoi in multiple cities.
All 7 cities now have Confucian religion thanks to 4 missionaries built by Capital City.

Exploration Chariot down south has sailed past the icebergs and landed in the island.
Can Homies discover new AI to the west!?

====================================

Homeslice
Turnset Report up to T108, up to T109, up to T113, and up to T115
Screenshots on T115

Phoenix Rising on Turn 115
Spoiler :









Phoenix Rising teched Theology, Paper, Drama, Music, and some of Education by T115
They received Aesthetics, Literature, and Horseback Riding (not essential) from trades.
The also bulbed Astronomy complete! :D (This freed up PR to do Theology or Civil Service which would have otherwise opened up Paper->Edu bulb instead of Atro bulb)
Their teching assets are 130:gold:, 1 Great Engineer, and 1 Great Artist
Population is at 67 with 5 workers.
On Turn 115, their tech path to victory is at 16725:science:/138k (12.12% complete)
14822:science: is domestic research 1903 and is from AI trades.
Spoiler :
Turn 115


Mysticism (78)
Mining (78)
The Wheel (93)
Priesthood (93)
unlocks temples
Pottery (124)
Meditation (124)
Masonry (124)
Polytheism (156)
(Got for free from Charlemagne! :goodjob:)
Sailing (156)
Bronze Working (187)
Writing (187)
Monotheism (187)
(Got for free from Saladin! :goodjob:)
Literature (312) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Iron Working (312) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Mathematics (390)
Aesthetics (468)
(Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Drama (468)
Alphabet (468)
Monarchy (468)
(Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Code of Laws (546)
Calendar (546)

Construction (546)
Currency (624)
Compass (624)
Metal Casting (702)

Theology (780)
Music (936)

Optics (936)
Paper (936)
Machinery (1092)

Feudalism (1092)
Banking (1092)
Civil Service (1248)
Philosophy (1248)
Engineering (1560)
Guilds (1560)
Gunpowder (1872)
Liberalism (2184)
Economics (2184)
Printing Press (2496)
Corporation (2496)
Nationalism (2808)
Education (162/2808)
Chemistry (2808)
Replaceable Parts (2808)
Astronomy (3120)
Military Tradition (3120)
Constitution (3120)
Scientific Method (3744)
Communism (4368)
Steel (4368)
Steam Power (4992)
Biology (5616)
Mass Media (5616)
Physics (6240)
Refrigeration (6240)
Electricity (7020)
Assembly Line (7800)
Radio (9360)
Superconductors (10140)
Industrialism (10140)

Total - 138009:science:

100GPP Great Scientist used to bulb Philosophy complete (+1248:science:)
300GPP Great Scientist used to bulb Astronomy (+1671:science:)
400GPP Great Scientist used to bulb Astronomy complete (+1449:science:)
PR got +1:move: for naval unit circumnavigation bonus on T106!
Always a useful bonus.

400GPP Great Scientist was born on T107 in East City!
It was used to bulb Astronomy complete and gain PR 10 more foreign trade routes to replace dumpy domestic trade routes.

PR gained Friendly relations with Sitting Bull on T108 as +2 open borders was obtained with SB and Peter.
They traded for SB's mopoly tech Horseback Riding.

The 3rd religion Christianity was founded in Island City after teching Theology T108.
Will that be their AP religion in the future, or will it be Confu? :crazyeye:
Anyway, AP started to slowly be built in Island City with Maoi Statues.

A little bit of :espionage: was spent T108 to see that Peter was teching towards Feudalism.
SB cost way to much to know what he was teching.

Workboat south of Peter met Louis on T108. (The final AI! :dance:)
Signed Open Borders immediately.

PR gained Friendly relations with Peter on T110 as +2 shared religion was obtained.
They traded for Peter's monopoly techs Aesthetics and then Literature.

Sitting Bull got Alphabet on T111.
Will an Emperor Ice Age AI unleash the spies!? :hide:

Free Great Artist was born on T114 as PR pounced on Music in 2 turns since no AI had it yet.

Paper was completed instead of Civil Service as PR moved towards Education.
Waiting for Peter to tech Civil Service for them? :popcorn:

All 7 cities now have Confucianism just like Team Home Slices.
A few cities have started Harbors by T115 and Capital + FarNW cities have most of a Forge built with no production bonuses.

Relations are strained with the new world AI.
Louis is Jewish, Charlie is Buddhist, and Bismarck + Saladin are Hindu :crazyeye:

PR had OB with all 4 AI and is trading 4 resources to Bismarck, Charlemagne, and Saladin. (Louis is getting 2)
PR is importing Wheat + Rice from Charlemagne.
Charlie is the worst enemy of Saladin + Louis.
Louis is the worst enemy of Charlemagne.
PR's relations are +2 with Bismarck, -2 with Saladin, -4 with Charlemagne, and -5 with Louis.


Homes Slices teched Education, Metal Casting, and some of Machinery by T115.
They received Iron Working in trades.
They also bulbed most of Education complete for +1647:science:
Their teching assets are 63:gold: and no great people.
Population is at 43 with 6 Workers.
On Turn 115, their tech path to victory is at 10628:science:/137k (7.76% complete)
9380:science: is domestic research and 1248 is from AI trades.
Spoiler :
Turn 115


Mysticism (78)
Mining (78)
The Wheel (93)
Priesthood (93)
unlocks temples
Pottery (124)
Meditation (124)
Masonry (124)
Polytheism (156)
Sailing (156)
Bronze Working (187)
Writing (187)

Literature (312)
Iron Working (312) (Got for free from Sitting Bull! :goodjob:)
Mathematics (390)
Aesthetics (468)
Drama (468)
Alphabet (468) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Monarchy (468) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Code of Laws (546)
Calendar (546)
Construction (546)
Currency (624)
Compass (624)
Metal Casting (702)
Music (936)
Optics (936)
Paper (936)
Machinery (726/1092)

Feudalism (1092)
Banking (1092)
Civil Service (1248)
Philosophy (1248)
Engineering (1560)
Guilds (1560)
Gunpowder (1872)
Liberalism (2184)
Economics (2184)
Printing Press (2496)
Corporation (2496)
Nationalism (2808)
Education (2808)
Chemistry (2808)
Replaceable Parts (2808)
Astronomy (3120)
Military Tradition (3120)
Constitution (3120)
Scientific Method (3744)
Communism (4368)
Steel (4368)
Steam Power (4992)
Mass Media (5616)
Biology (5616)
Physics (6240)
Refrigeration (6240)
Electricity (7020)
Assembly Line (7800)
Radio (9360)
Superconductors (10140)
Industrialism (10140)

Total - 137042:science:

100GPP Great Scientist used to bulb a lot of Education (+1647:science:)
The 100GPP Great Scientist was used to bulb Education.

HS finished their exploration on T108 conceding there was no way to meet new AI without Optics or a +1 vision chariot on a Galley.
It was too expensive to retrieve the exploration Chariot, so it was deleted just like PR's Scout. :lol:

Like PR, HS also used :espionage: slider T108 to peek at what Peter was teching. :think:
Both Peters were teching Feudalism!
Oxford University was completed in the Capital city on T111! [party]
All chops came from outside the BFC.
They plan to save all 6 forests + 1 jungle for National Park since Biology is on the way to Sushi. (lucky forests growths! Homies can get 1 in 1000 events too!)

Sitting Bull met Peter using :espionage: near East City on T113.
This is 28 turns later than PR.

Finally traded for Iron Working from Sitting Bull T113 (5 turns after PR got Astronomy :sad:)

By T115 HS is going all out with buildings and fail:gold:
Around 1000:gold: is about to be unleashed by completing Moai in Island City.
Every city has a Confucian Monastery.
Northwest + Capital have Universities while Northwest and FarNW cities have Courthouses.
Capital City is building University of Sankore which will give +2:science: to all Confu buildings (monasteries/temples/cathedrals)

HS are also about to bribe Peter into Confucianism using 3 Missionaries carried across by 2 Galleys.
This should result in a Friendly Peter.
"Not enough people follow that faith" can be solved purely based on the number of cities that have the religion.
It has nothing to do with population as pointed out by WastinTime. :thumbsup:

====================================

Homeslice
Turnset Report up to T125
Screenshots on T125

Phoenix Rising on Turn 125
Spoiler :







Phoenix Rising teched Education, Civil Service, a bit of Printing Press, and some of Nationalism by T125.
They received Feudalism and Construction from trades.
The also bulbed most of Education.
Their teching assets are 364:gold:, 1 Great Engineer, and 1 Great Merchant
Population is at 72 with 5 workers.
On Turn 125, their tech path to victory is at 23820:science:/138k (17.26% complete)
20279:science: is domestic research and 3541 is from AI trades.
Spoiler :
Turn 125


Mysticism (78)
Mining (78)
The Wheel (93)
Priesthood (93)
unlocks temples
Pottery (124)
Meditation (124)
Masonry (124)
Polytheism (156)
(Got for free from Charlemagne! :goodjob:)
Sailing (156)
Bronze Working (187)
Writing (187)
Monotheism (187)
(Got for free from Saladin! :goodjob:)
Literature (312) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Iron Working (312) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Mathematics (390)
Aesthetics (468)
(Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Drama (468)
Alphabet (468)
Monarchy (468)
(Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Code of Laws (546)
Calendar (546)

Construction (546)
(Got for free from Sitting Bull! :goodjob:)
Currency (624)
Compass (624)
Metal Casting (702)
Theology (780)
Music (936)
Optics (936)
Paper (936)
Machinery (1092)

Feudalism (1092)
(Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Banking (1092)
Civil Service (1248)
Philosophy (1248)

Engineering (1560)
Guilds (1560)
Gunpowder (1872)
Liberalism (2184)
Economics (2184)
Printing Press (85/2496)
Corporation (2496)
Nationalism (1478/2808)
Education (2808)

Chemistry (2808)
Replaceable Parts (2808)
Astronomy (3120)
Military Tradition (3120)
Constitution (3120)
Scientific Method (3744)
Communism (4368)
Steel (4368)
Steam Power (4992)
Biology (5616)
Mass Media (5616)
Physics (6240)
Refrigeration (6240)
Electricity (7020)
Assembly Line (7800)
Radio (9360)
Superconductors (10140)
Industrialism (10140)

Total - 138009:science:

100GPP Great Scientist used to bulb Philosophy complete (+1248:science:)
300GPP Great Scientist used to bulb Astronomy (+1671:science:)
400GPP Great Scientist used to bulb Astronomy complete (+1449:science:)
500GPP Great Scientist used to bulb Education (+1704:science:)
Free Great Artist from Music was used to start 1st Golden Age on T117

500GPP Great Scientist was born in FarNW City on T117!
It was immediately used to bulb Education.

T118 Charlie DOW'd Germany and captured Munich I think.
Poor Bismarck is down to 3 cities! :eek:
On T120 Germany + Holy Roman Empire signed a Cease Fire.

PR made a big move on T119 trading techs for :gold: and to perhaps advance the 6AI so they can tech more things?
Or maybe the AI all teched something?

Peter got Drama, Music, and Horseback Riding while trading PR Feudalism.
Germany got Literature, Drama, Code of Laws, and Currency
France got Literature and Currency
Saladin got Literature and Compass

On T121, PR traded for Sitting Bull's monopoly tech Construction. :pat:

600GPP Great Merchant was born in West City on T123! (31% chance)
It was quickly sent overseas for a Trade Mission to get a big pile of :gold:

PR started their 1st Golden Age on T122 using the free Great Artist from Music.
Bureaucracy civic was immediately adopted.

By T125 PR is teching Nationalism, so perhaps a dip into Nationhood before the Golden Age ends to do some drafting?

The golden age hammers :hammers: are being used to rapidly complete AP in Island City and Oxford in the capital.
West City built a Harbor to improve all four trade routes to +4:gold:

The final 3 city specializations are starting to shake out.
FarNW might be Spy city, Northwest City might be Artist City, and East City might be the General City?

France is still expanding. Nobody has 2 Iron yet.


Homes Slices teched Machinery, Guilds, Aesthetics, and Banking by T125.
They received Feudalism, Construction, and Philosophy in trades.
Their teching assets are 159:science: from overflow:science:, 553:gold:, and no great people.
Population is at 63 with 6 Workers.
On Turn 125, their tech path to victory is at 17000:science:/137k (12.41% complete)
12866:science: is domestic research and 4134 is from AI trades.
Spoiler :
Turn 125


Mysticism (78)
Mining (78)
The Wheel (93)
Priesthood (93)
unlocks temples
Pottery (124)
Meditation (124)
Masonry (124)
Polytheism (156)
Sailing (156)
Bronze Working (187)
Writing (187)

Literature (312)
Iron Working (312) (Got for free from Sitting Bull! :goodjob:)
Mathematics (390)
Aesthetics (468)

Drama (468)
Alphabet (468) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Monarchy (468) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Code of Laws (546)
Calendar (546)
Construction (546) (Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Currency (624)
Compass (624)
Metal Casting (702)
Music (936)
Optics (936)
Paper (936)
Machinery (1092)
Feudalism (1092)
(Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Banking (1092)
Civil Service (1248)
Philosophy (1248)
(Got for free from Peter! :goodjob:)
Engineering (1560)
Guilds (1560)
Gunpowder (1872)
Liberalism (2184)
Economics (2184)
Printing Press (2496)
Corporation (2496)
Nationalism (2808)
Education (2808)
Chemistry (2808)
Replaceable Parts (2808)
Astronomy (3120)
Military Tradition (3120)
Constitution (3120)
Scientific Method (3744)
Communism (4368)
Steel (4368)
Steam Power (4992)
Mass Media (5616)
Biology (5616)
Physics (6240)
Refrigeration (6240)
Electricity (7020)
Assembly Line (7800)
Radio (9360)
Superconductors (10140)
Industrialism (10140)

Total - 137042:science:

100GPP Great Scientist used to bulb a lot of Education (+1647:science:)
After 3 Confucian Missionary spreads, HS paid Peter Currency to adopt Confucianism.
Friendly Peter was achieved on T117!
HS traded Machinery plus some gold for Feudalism.

On T122, they traded Aesthetics + Guilds to Peter for Philosophy + Construction.

University of Sankore was completed in Capital city on T124! [party](4th World Wonder)
+2:science: for all 7 monasteries and the 1 temple in Capital City. :)

A very quiet turnset.
No real whipping as population built for the upcoming golden age.
Targets were Aesthetics for Parthenon, Banking for Mercantism, and finally Music for the Great Artist.

Still a focus on quickly conquering the world starting with Sitting Bull, so Gunpowder is being considered before Optics.
How much tech can 4 backwards AI have to trade anyway?

By T125 most of Parthenon is complete in FarNW City.
Oracle in Island City allowed for very early Marble. :D
Golden Age is going to start in about 3 turns.
FarNW and Northwest Cities have Courthouses to prepare for Sushi in the future and cut down on expenses.
East, West, Capital, and Northwest Cities have Universities.

Sitting Bull's tech choice is about to be revealed by :espionage:.

====================================

Link to Postgame Analysis Part 4
 
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The fundamental wonder bread equation is 1 food=2 hammer=4 gold. For caste+ representation, it's 1 food= 3 beaker+ gpp. If we keep eyes away from gpp, wonder bread is better…I can't believe we are behind by so much at this stage, especially after we got civil service from the Oracle which is worth 1.2k…
 
The fundamental wonder bread equation is 1 food=2 hammer=4 gold. For caste+ representation, it's 1 food= 3 beaker+ gpp. If we keep eyes away from gpp, wonder bread is better…I can't believe we are behind by so much at this stage, especially after we got civil service from the Oracle which is worth 1.2k…
Most of it is being 2 Great Scientist bulbs behind at 100 and 200GPP. (+3200:science:)?

But ya, our Oracle boost vanished by T105. :sad:
I wonder how much early Oxford helped out?

**Edit**
Oops, I made a math error. Fixed!
Yes, PR is ahead by T105.
 
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The fundamental wonder bread equation is 1 food=2 hammer=4 gold. For caste+ representation, it's 1 food= 3 beaker+ gpp. If we keep eyes away from gpp, wonder bread is better…I can't believe we are behind by so much at this stage, especially after we got civil service from the Oracle which is worth 1.2k…
The gold isn't instantly converted into anything and the true value of it depends on how much science you're capable of producing when keeping slider up. In addition to the specialists, it seems PR was also ahead in commerce with GLH, gems online and bigger cities.

T105 you have enough gold saved up to pay for another 1.5k beakers over the next 8 turns, probably more as your bpt should keep increasing. That gold was likely created already a lot earlier when the failgold hammers were invested. Wonder bread is nice, but it's also a big delay on returns compared to running rep scientists.
 
turn 65 question

Also, the PR +1 diplo from "you gave us tribute" has vanished and is now +1 "Our trade relations have been fair and forthright"
I'm really confused about what happened there with Sitting Bull. :confused:

We generously gave away all of our resources we could spare (sheep, clam and crabs) to get the boost in diplo. Probably this caused the +1 fair trade relations.
 
A 0.1% chance Confu spread to Russia occurred on T99 and Russia adopted it T100! :dubious::wow:
Tremendous luck that will quickly ensure a Friendly Peter!
Confu missionary spread to FarNW City T101 and the Galley could stay put.
I wonder if the conf spread to Russia was so unexpected? You suggest 0.1%.

My testing this game showed religion spread can directly related to trade routes as well as being close to the holy city. Our capital had conf and had a trade route with St Peters. Making the religion spread much more likely. Still talking percentages but that is a constant % each turn? I tried this on multiple test games and the religion spreads nearly always related to trade routes. May take many turns for a spread to actually happen but when it does you can influence percentages by looking at city trade routes.

Our first spread to SB was not trade route related but the city was right next to the holy city. We had also assumed a 10 tile rule. Hence why philosophy didn't really spread from G. The Holy city would increase chances of religion spreads.
 
So at this stage HS are staying in the game through fail gold and CS? HS got CS for free. PR have bulbed twice for free astronomy. HS are about to do this for edu?

I wasn't convinced by your early Ox uni gain here. It is hard to tell. The capital does well but the other cities lose our to PR specialists. I think the tide turns a bit when we get to a point where ai gold for techs starts to pay for our science. That and impact of police state which slashed our costs. PR have 2 golden ages coming up soon. I assume HS will have too for their med push. Albeit our was more about speeding up AP and great people.

At present still not 100% clear where the big gap in science came from. Bulbs will muddy this water.At this stage PR science is ahead but i suspect HS are able to use 100% science more often with fail gold.
 
I wonder if the conf spread to Russia was so unexpected? You suggest 0.1%.

My testing this game showed religion spread can directly related to trade routes as well as being close to the holy city. Our capital had conf and had a trade route with St Peters. Making the religion spread much more likely. Still talking percentages but that is a constant % each turn? I tried this on multiple test games and the religion spreads nearly always related to trade routes. May take many turns for a spread to actually happen but when it does you can influence percentages by looking at city trade routes.

Our first spread to SB was not trade route related but the city was right next to the holy city. We had also assumed a 10 tile rule. Hence why philosophy didn't really spread from G. The Holy city would increase chances of religion spreads.
Let me calculate it.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/natural-religious-spread.171581/#post-4072493

36 tall 84 wide ice age map
cylindrical world wrap.
Max plot distance is 18 diagonal plus 24 more horizontal I think, so 18*1.5+24 = 51 max plot distance

Confu holy city in PR game is 35 tiles from St. Petersburg going east.

100*35/51 = 68
68-5 = 63

100/63 =1.58

Mmm, 1 chance per 1000 each turn I think ya.
 
So the city has to be connected to the trade network. Also the capital? Fact in my test games the cities where the spread happened directly linked to the religion where the religion was is just coincidence. Hmmm.
 
The fundamental wonder bread equation is 1 food=2 hammer=4 gold. For caste+ representation, it's 1 food= 3 beaker+ gpp. If we keep eyes away from gpp

This early +1.5 gpp/food, however, they are the key here, imho, they are worth much more than 3 beakers, it is closer to 15+ beakers/food for the first GP imho!

For 100 GPP great person, I value 1GPP at 11+ gold, since it can be easily converted into 1,100+ GM with GLH, or later into eg 1500+ Astronomy bulb. For the 200GPP, I would still value them at 6-7 gold at least, at that stage, it is easier to get >1,100 of a GM mission or fully use 1500+ bulb.

Of course, everything is situational in civ, but when testing I typically find rep+caste working better for me than excessive failgold. We all have different playstyles, but as @elitetroops mentioned, the value of early gold depends on how quickly you can convert it to research and for me it was a problem when having "too much" failgold.

EDIT: Of course, you are not getting this 1 food -> 3+15 (gpp) beakers conversion for free, you have to build Pyramids, which are very costly (200-500 hammers)
 
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This early +1.5 gpp/food, however, they are the key here, imho, they are worth much more than 3 beakers, it is closer to 15+ beakers/food for the first GP imho!

For 100 GPP great person, I value 1GPP at 11+ gold, since it can be easily converted into 1,100+ GM with GLH, or later into eg 1500+ Astronomy bulb. For the 200GPP, I would still value them at 6-7 gold at least, at that stage, it is easier to get >1,100 of a GM mission or fully use 1500+ bulb.

Of course, everything is situational in civ, but when testing I typically find rep+caste working better for me than excessive failgold. We all have different playstyles, but as @elitetroops mentioned, the value of early gold depends on how quickly you can convert it to research and for me it was a problem when having "too much" failgold.

EDIT: Of course, you are not getting this 1 food -> 3+15 (gpp) beakers conversion for free, you have to build Pyramids, which are very costly (200-500 hammers)
Yes you are right, but I omitted great person points for a reason. From T138 HS started 2 golden ages and hatched 11 great people. We used them to bulb printing-chemistry-method-biology, all the way to liberalism-medicine and founded sushi T154. The beakers from great scientist bulb( we can call it the nominal value of gp points) are almost the same for both teams. The difference is the time value. When astronomy is fully bulbed, it starts to generate positive returns like trade route income, extra luxury resources. This should have been included in the opportunity cost.
BTW finally I can see someone with 3-digit posts other than myself. "+1 developing nations should help each other."
 
turn 65 question



We generously gave away all of our resources we could spare (sheep, clam and crabs) to get the boost in diplo. Probably this caused the +1 fair trade relations.
Home Slices also started giving clam, crab, and sheep to Sitting Bull starting around T35. No +1 fair trade. :think:
Did you perhaps gift Sitting Bull a unit?

Let me check the memory decay values for "You gave us tribute"
Spoiler :

Hmm, 1 in 30 chance each turn the AI will forget that the player stopped trading with them due to a demand. (!) Won't talk
1 in 100 chance each turn the AI will forget you traded them a tech for the purposes of +1 diplo "you shared your technology"
1 in 10 chance each turn the AI will allow Open Borders to be signed again after closing borders.
1 in 20 chance each turn the AI will forget a tech trade for the purposes of WFYABTA
1 in 50 chance each turn the AI will forget the -1 diplo from refusing to stop trading with another AI.

Oh, there it is!
1 in 50 chance each turn the AI will forget the +1 diplo from giving into one of their demands.

Phoenix Rising got really unlucky there! :sad:


As for the +1 Fair Trade bonus that replaced "+1 you gave us tribute", perhaps a resource given to a demand counts as +6:gold: per turn or somesuch?
I'm still not sure where +1 Fair Trade came from.
 
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