[BTS] SGOTM 26 - The Indecisive

Only played three turns Pausing and posting game to ask if there is a way we can get Peter friendly this turn and make a trade for Construction.

T129 (350 AD): GG has been born in a far away land

T130: Peter now won’t trade Feudalism.

T131: Find Sioux are teching MC, unfortunately. Peter completes Construction but will not trade it to us. He is now Pleased but not Friendly.


Save at Central
 
Last edited:
Hi, sorry about my absence.

You can try with making him adopt Bureaucracy. It may be enough, but if it is not it is still good to be building relations using but religion and favourite civic.
 
Hi, sorry about my absence.

You can try with making him adopt Bureaucracy. Thought about that and will give it a try. It may be enough, but if it is not it is still good to be building relations using but religion and favourite civic.

Will play tonight.
 
T131: Find Sioux are teching MC, unfortunately. Peter completes Construction but will not trade it to us. Trade Music to get him into Bureaucracy (and to give us 40 gold), then trade Currency and 14 gold for Construction.

T132: Complete University and begin Oxford

T133: Gain 35 gold from Sioux for our map; Russia researching Compass

T134: Oxford completes, so set research at 100%; MC is researched, so tech Machinery

T135 (500 AD): Citizens of IT want to join Rome; Sitting Bull is now researching Calendar; Peter no longer wants Theology, so must have traded for it.

T136: Machinery>Drama;

T137: Christianity spreads to Yakutsk; Colossus has been built in a far away land; trade mission to Moscow nets 1,300 in gold; trade MC and gold to Peter for Compass; Drama>Optics

T138: Apostolic vote we win 26 to 0, with peter abstaining with his 1 vote; Peter begins to research Machinery, so trade him that and Drama for Feudalism and 20 gold; A GM is born in Moscow; now have almost 500 hammers in Itza in CC, so switch it to Bib

T139: Meet Bismarck (no unit spotted) and sign Open Borders, but he has little to offer; note that Bis has not met Sitting Bull; Optics>Calendar


MoM looks like a reasonable gamble, as no known Civ has Calendar, but we’re close to being able to build the Taj, which has little risk and is more valuable if more expensive. I’ve partially built several buildings in 6R to either overflow into or whip into MoM or the Taj, and made progress on pre-chopping forests as well.

Suggest we complete the forge in CC then build a ship to transport our newly trained missionary overseas, and I would be willing to spend gold to upgrade one of our galleys to galleon ASAP and sail it southwest with a unit aboard.

I’ll be out of town and out of touch all day tomorrow, but will try to comment tomorrow night on any plan or matters of discussion you post.

Save has been posted at Central.
 
Looks good. I'm at work but I will have a look and make a plan when I get home.
 
It is kind of hard when I'm uncertain of the big picture. But here is what I suggest.

Our next goal should be Biology. So to get there as fast as possible we should get printing press and astronomy. That would imply building MoM as it allows us to not be distracted. It also leads to muskets which we can use to attack Sioux. We might be able to get muskets before he get feudalism if we are lucky.

Sioux has expanded quite a bit think we are better to spread Christianity to his gold city then being forced to eliminating him.

Russia now has Christianity which is worrying. We need to whip missionaries in 5W and 6R. Converting Rostov, Moscow and Novgorod should be a priority.

I confirmed that christian monasteries loose the extra hammers once we have scientific method so they will probably not pay for themselves. But I think we should have two of them to have option of getting missionaries at any time.

PPP
tech path
Calendar -> Priting Press -> Astronomy -> Gunpowder -> Engineering -> Chemistry -> Scientific Method -> Biology (with liberalism)
or
Gunpowder -> Calendar -> Priting Press -> Astronomy -> Engineering -> Chemistry -> Scientific Method -> Biology (with liberalism)
Trade optics to Peter to hope for some useful tech path.


Bib:
I had forgotten about +25% trade from connection to capital. Getting Bib to size 11 gives us +200 gold from merchants. Building farms here should have high priority.

BB:
Whip forge to enable greater food excess. Regrowing from empty bins is to slow.

TC:
Whip forge into a christian monastery.

6R:
Whip a Jewish missionary into the MoM, then whip other buildings into the MoM.

CC:
Whip forge into harbour.

5W:
Whip a Jewish missionary.

IT:
Whip a caravel.

Harbours are good buildings. Getting us +2 commerce and health which we need some of in CC, 6R and 5W. Forges are useful every where. Fail gold is also very good.
 
FYI, I may have failed to Pause the game.

It is kind of hard when I'm uncertain of the big picture. I share your discomfort in not knowing what the rest of the civs are doing. Let’s remedy that. But here is what I suggest.

Our next goal should be Biology. So to get there as fast as possible we should get printing press and astronomy. Concur with prioritizing Bio, but urge that we tech Astro (using our GS) before PP. That would imply building MoM as it allows us to not be distracted. Fine with that. Note that to best utilize MoM we should get the NE built. It also leads to muskets which we can use to attack Sioux. We might be able to get muskets before he get feudalism if we are lucky.

Sioux has expanded quite a bit think we are better to spread Christianity to his gold city then being forced to eliminating him. If just getting a GG is the purpose of war, then we can consider waiting for grenadiers and cannons. There is also the possibility of targeting a different civ.

Russia now has Christianity which is worrying. We need to whip missionaries in 5W and 6R. Converting Rostov, Moscow and Novgorod should be a priority. A galleon will hold three of them, and the upgrade from galley to galleon arguably has the best cost/benefit of all upgrades, especially in our circumstances where a galleon will unlock trading possibilities and lead to knowledge of the other civs.

I confirmed that christian monasteries loose the extra hammers once we have scientific method so they will probably not pay for themselves. But I think we should have two of them to have option of getting missionaries at any time. Fine with this, but not as a priority.



PPP
tech path
Calendar -> Priting Press -> Astronomy -> Gunpowder -> Engineering -> Chemistry -> Scientific Method -> Biology (with liberalism) This alternative is my preference but with Astro before PP. Also, would note that SM obsoletes the GLib, so we don’t want to complete it until we have Liberalism nearly researched.
or
Gunpowder -> Calendar -> Priting Press -> Astronomy -> Engineering -> Chemistry -> Scientific Method -> Biology (with liberalism)
Trade optics to Peter to hope for some useful tech path. Concur.


Bib:
I had forgotten about +25% trade from connection to capital. Getting Bib to size 11 gives us +200 gold from merchants. Building farms here should have high priority. Did not know that. By all means build farms in Bib. As Bio is approached, do we want to build farms in BB and/or other cities?

BB:
Whip forge to enable greater food excess. Regrowing from empty bins is to slow. Okay, but build forge one more turn before whipping.

TC:
Whip forge into a christian monastery. Might want to reconsider TC as the best site for whipping right now or for a monastery later on. There is much to build here and little forest left over from Mid building. How about growing population here for whipping into expensive buildings later and put the Christian monastery in CC, which has most of its required building done?

6R:
Whip a Jewish missionary into the MoM, then whip other buildings into the MoM.

CC:
Whip forge into harbour. Value the harbor, but would rather whip forge into a galleon and then build harbor and Christian monastery.

5W:
Whip a Jewish missionary.

IT:
Whip a caravel. With Galleons soon available, would argue that caravels are relatively poor investments now.

Harbours are good buildings. Getting us +2 commerce and health which we need some of in CC, 6R and 5W. Forges are useful every where. Fail gold is also very good. Follow all that.

Workboat 6, near Germany/Russia can be deleted or gifted.

Chariot in Russia can be loaded onto galleon that delivers missionaries (before exploring) and eventually brought back home for eventual use as a pillager during war. In the meantime, he can look for the GM that was born in Moscow in 540 AD but is no longer there. (If he has not been incorporated, it would be useful to know that he is available to Peter to bulb Banking.)
 
We can't use the great scientist for astronomy. PP is just a one turn detour.

With biology we will want farms in any city that has access to water. i.e. Bib, BB and TC.

Buying a map from Germany might be a good idea.

Caravel will be at least 4 turns earlier than Galleon but I see your point. That mean caravel are really just useful for 4 turns. If we can get Germanys map getting a caravel does not seem important.

We do not need to tech military science and we might not get iron for cannons. I think our best option is muskets.

I had forgotten about ironworks in TC. But we have no reason to hurry it. with 80 turns left of the game I think we can manage to get it done.

Let us whip forge now in CC and then whip galleon when astronomy is done.

Other comments I do not really have comments on.
 
We can't use the great scientist for astronomy. PP is just a one turn detour. Understood.

With biology we will want farms in any city that has access to water. i.e. Bib, BB and TC.

Buying a map from Germany might be a good idea. Bismarck would not sell his map to me.

Caravel will be at least 4 turns earlier than Galleon but I see your point. That mean caravel are really just useful for 4 turns. If we can get Germanys map getting a caravel does not seem important.

We do not need to tech military science and we might not get iron for cannons. I think our best option is muskets. Makes sense. That's the plan then.

I had forgotten about ironworks in TC. Which requires a factory. But we have no reason to hurry it. with 80 turns left of the game I think we can manage to get it done. Still prefer CC but do not see it as critical. Thinking we will also want a barracks in CC.

Let us whip forge now in CC and then whip galleon when astronomy is done. OK. That would give time to build another missionary for the galleon to carry.

Other comments I do not really have comments on.

Do go ahead and play, and don't feel constrained to a set number of turns.
 
Spending some quality time with my wife today. I will try to play tomorrow morning. If you want to play some turns today remember that it should be cheap to gift Germany to pleased to buy his map.
 
Playing shortly . . ., just 4 turns:

Gift Bismarck Drama and then am able to trade him our map for his plus 10 gold. Find Romans, Arabs, and the French. Many cities have Buddhism and/or Hinduism but none with Christianity or Judaism. Berlin is size 12. At some point, do we want to gift him Compass and Optics, so he can construct a harbor?

Trade Peter Optics for 30 gold.

T140 (600 AD): Bismarck completes The Hanging Gardens; a Great Prophet is born in Mecca; Calendar>PP; Peter is now researching Calendar, so trade it to him and to the Sioux for a little gold; gift wkbt to Russia

T141: PP>Astro; Russia now teching Engineering, Sioux Currency; Saladin completes the Kashi Vishwanath;

T142: Baghdad has been captured by the Romans; Peter adopts Theology;

T143: GProphet born in a far away land;


Have whipped two Jewish missionaries and begun moving them to Russia.

Peter's GM is not visible, so probably incorporated.

Whipped forge in TC, leaving distribution of overflow to be determined.

Have a GM inside Russia but wondering if Moscow, a small city, is best trade route.

Does it make sense to chop/whip a forge in 6R?
 
Last edited:
Hi. Did you get any playing done?
 
Looks very good. My guess is that the continent to our south is technologically backwards but will trade tech liberally once they meet us.

Russsia researching engineering is good. It seems to save us a couple of turns on biology. Moscow has a harbour now which is 200 gold for aGM. Next 200 will be at size 12.

I will be home in 8 hours and will make a plan. Sorry about failing to play but I should be able tomorrow.
 
RRRaskolnikov said he will return tomorrow. Hopefully he will play a set during the week. Once he posts here we will need to give him a summary so he understands the plan.
 
Heya :) I will have a look at the thread in the evening.

Sorry all for disappearing, especially without notice.
 
Heya :) I will have a look at the thread in the evening.

Sorry all for disappearing, especially without notice.
Welcome back!

In short the plan is to tech as fast as possible while setting up an AP victory.
 
Heya :) I will have a look at the thread in the evening.

Sorry all for disappearing, especially without notice.

We sent out search parties but had given up all hope. Pleased to learn that you are still extant and functioning. Optimistic that you will read the thread (no quick task) and post comments soon.

Note that a forge in 6R would also help us significantly with the NE and Globe, plus let us run an Engineer there when useful.
 
I suggest you do not read through the thread. Look at the game and the last page to see what is happening now.
 
PPP:
Spread Judaism to large Russian cities.
Tech astronomy -> gunpowder -> trade for engineering -> chemistry -> 1 turn until completion of liberalism -> scientific method -> liberalism -> biology.

Bibracte,
build fail gold, make farms.

Beaver Bay:
Work max food,

Twin Clams:
Avoid working ocean tiles.

6R:
4 pop whip forge into MoM
then 2 pop whip courthouse into MoM

CC:
Library then harbour and last a jewish monastary.

5W
2 pop whip forge then a library and last a harbour.

Island Town:
4 pop whip a forge. Put one turn into a galley. Whip Galley once we have astronomy.

Play until we have a galleon that can meet our southern naeighbours.
 
Back
Top Bottom