[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Unusual Suspects

[SittinDown]

Bold denotes can build now.

Plan to build:

• Pyramids

Undecided:

• GLH
• [Oracle]
• [AP]
  
• [GLB]

 

[Zhary]

Hello
I'm back, at least I had time to look at the save. Some thoughts:
Where running a slave economy but forgot an important part... THE GRANARIES!
pottery should be next many of the cities are at an ideal position for 2 whipped granaries soon.
Since we need a dun overflow whipping one into the mids would be ok. However whipping a LH there for the crabs is even better. Not to mention the granary.
Talking about Bib food is always better than raw hammers when whipping so change the hillfur to flatfur makes thing better.(just a tiny bit)

For the long run:
In my opinion going for mids makes MoM the supperior artist wonder. If we could push for an early 36 turn GA calendar should be a priority before literature, Col and theo(if we go AP)

I starting to get cold feet about the AP. Thinking about it the drawbacks are:
teching theo -780 beaker
building ap 400 hammers(250 extra if comaping to oracle)
No oracling tech: 500-1000 beakers

The sum here is something like 2000 early beakers compare to ~5500+ building UN in the late game. I don't think the numbers adds up and the latest always war gotm inspired me to consider a world war scenario in the endgame where we choke every civ before giving each a final blow.

 

[SittinDown]

@Zhary - glad to see you're back! I've been thinking the same thing about pottery. It's a 1-turn diversion at this point.

• Proposed Tech Path
  • Pottery
  • IW
  • Meditation
  • Preisthood
  • CoL

 

[Zhary]

Im Green to Iw. If we want glib poly is a better choice than med. (Also for ap)

Do you need help to compute when the turns for the ideal 2pop gran whips?

 

[SittinDown]

PPP:

• Tech POTTERY then IW
  
• Worker at Vienne moves to jungle river gems and starts road until IW done.
• Bib keeps working Pyramids and chopping. Swap tiles for food. Plan our our OF whips - TBD. But Granary probably better than LH once we have it.
  
• Explore West with 1 WB and 1 Galley with a warrior.
• 2nd WB from Greg will improve seafood.
• Tolosa keeps alternating between whipping useful stuff (granary / library), and OF into GLH.
• Gerg - slow grow - after next WB - shift to buildings - I don't think it has a library or LH yet. LH next probably, then Granary, lib. 9 hammers at size 6 - and good food - nice place to build things. maybe a scientist city?
• Camu whips monument at size-2.
  • 3rd WB from East will improve seafood once borders pop. Should be roughly well timed.
  • Camu starts building LH. 3 seafood city - extra food more important to get up quick.

This should be about 6-7 turns.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

green

 

[kcd_swede]

Green. Nice discussion! Good to have you back zhary!

 

[SittinDown]

cool - will play it in about 6-10 hours. [after work in the -5 time zone].

 

[SittinDown]

T - 71

• Spotted an empty SB galley headed to along the North coast.
• Pottery is in. Bib & Tolosa start on Granary.

T - 73

• Judiasm is founded - it was Peter

T-78

• IW is in. Good news - we can see iron. It's by the bronze.
• Found Peter - now we get trade routes with him, and he's overseas. This should make GLH very useful.

 

[SittinDown]

City report

Spoiler Cities :

Vienne

• Finished a worker, then finished a chariot. Started a Granary - I didn't want to whip away our only scientists.
• Worker is now ready to chop and mine the gems. Road is ready.

Bib

• Whipped and chopped pretty efficiently. 177 / 500 into pyramids. Granary done. About to max-overflow the lightouse in a couple of turns. We can do the Dun after - the extra food from lighthouse seemed worth the extra 10 hammers.

Tolosa

• Just whipped granary. Should put overflow into GLH, which I think will get it to 68 / 200 hammers.

Gerg

• I messed up the lighthouse whip there - sorry. I meant to whip at 28 H, but let it run an extra turn to 35. I whipped it anyway, to get started on the granary. Normally don't like 1-pop whips, but that unlocks 3 food 3 turns faster.

Cal

• Whipped the monument. Improved the silver. Just going slow until borders pop. Hammers going into granary.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

The location of metals is evil.

 

[SittinDown]

Crap - I forgot to pickup the warrior on the galley. I need to go back and get him for the ride. Gonna want to do some land exploration. Should only cost about 2 - turns of exploration.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

There are worse things that could happen... as I recall, someone accidentally gave away a city one time.

 

[kcd_swede]

Unless there is some food resources in the fog, I think were playing without metal. At least for a long while.

Not only is the placement evil, but the consequences of popping metals in a random mine would be game-breaking.

 

[SittinDown]

Ok - so looks like basics are:

• Scout Peter
• Tech Poly -> Preist -> CoL.
• Manage cities well.
• Build Mids.
• Probably try for GLH?
• Probably try for Oracle?

It's gonna be hard to forgo the UN and the AP, and not get metals. What victory is available at that point? Even SB's land, even if we did want to conquer him, looks pretty useless.

 

[SittinDown]

Also - is it possible Pheonix Rising has finished their game already? They haven't posted a save in a while, and they've been quiet. They ended at 1150 AD. If so, my guess is they pulled off some diplomatic victory, based on their power graph.

 

[Zhary]

I Think it's time to make the AP or oracle vote now. My vote is on oracle actually even if I suggested Ap in the beginning. But it's a weak vote and if someone has a good argument I change back.

Btw we might want to settle a city north of bib now when we know where the metals are.

 

[Zhary]

Also - is it possible Pheonix Rising has finished their game already? They haven't posted a save in a while, and they've been quiet. They ended at 1150 AD. If so, my guess is they pulled off some diplomatic victory, based on their power graph.

Diplo at this turn absolutely with a lab and ip at the same time highly unlikely but not impossible we definitely won't beat them in anyway then. Let's hope they just on vacation...

 

[kcd_swede]

Also - is it possible Pheonix Rising has finished their game already? They haven't posted a save in a while, and they've been quiet. They ended at 1150 AD. If so, my guess is they pulled off some diplomatic victory, based on their power graph.

An alternative explanation could be loss of a settler, sunk on a galley somewhere or disbanded due to strike.

I doubt very much anyone is getting all the necessary tech by 1150AD. And anyhow, there is no telling if they played a 300 turn marathon session after the last submission, because the final save doesn't show until the results are published. Either way, it should not affect our strategy in any way... unless it inspires us to find some game shortening tips (its easier if you know it can be done).

I see no advantage in AP since we need to go late in the game. Its only a clear speed breaker when you can nab an early victory. And several of its winning strategies are nerfed by no city founding, gifting, or capturing. Hope a friend builds it and hope they spread the religion to us, and we get the hammer bonuses anyhow.

I vote Oracle. I am pretty convinced a Conquest (or dominating diplo) will will take this. Astronomy is a KEY tech. Avoid Med so bulbing is an option, because Oracle for Astro is high risk. Might oracle Optics, though.

Anyhow, lets commit, pne way or the other, before we go further.

 

[SittinDown]

Good thoughts kcd.

I'm good for Oracle.