SGOTM 5 - End of Game Spoiler

[AlanH]

If only to keep end of game discussions out of the Maintenance thread, here is the Final Spoiler thread for teams who have completed SGOTM 5.

Leave immediately if your team are still playing SGOTM 5.

Use it to contemplate the finer points of your games, and to compare and contrast your approaches to game strategy and team dynamics. Personal attacks, bad language, off-topic posts and spam will be penalised in the same way as they would be anywhere else in these forums. You have been warned.

Note that, by posting here, you signal to the teams who are still playing that you have finished, as they can see a list of posters without opening the thread.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I have a pet phrase: Power Moves, for moves I make in a game that contribute to 2 or more strategic goals in a game. In SG5, for example, Murky Waters decided to research BW first because 1) we knew from klarius that if the barbs knew BW before they started spawning, there was a 1/3 chance of spawning axes (in addition to warriors and archers), 2) we could poprush, 3) we'd find out where copper was, and 4) we could build axes. So by researching BW we'd contribute to these strategic goals:

1) increase our chances that the barbs would capture AI cities (Persepolis, Pasagardae, 1 Japanese city, 1 Chinese city, 1 Asoka settler),
2) we'd be able to REX faster with poprushing, and knowing where to locate our next settlement for the copper, and
3) perform an axe rush (which we actually didn't do after all).​

Moves can also have counterproductive effects that make them less powerful. For example, BW first forced us to mine the pigs, instead of pasturing them. That's a kind of negative (a small one in this case) if we later on decide to pasture them, because it's a waste of 6 worker-turns.

War weariness was a huge problem in this game. Our solution was reasonably effective but NOT what I would classify as a power move, because it only contributed to one strageic goal: managing WW. We gifted our copper city to Asoka in exchange for peace, then recpatured it and gifted it to Toku in exchange for peace, then re-captured. So, although this move accomplished the goal of making our WW more manageable--it reset our make-peace counter with those two AIs, thus making it easier to make peace again later, and allowed us to have less WW from the two AIs contributing the most WW, it had at the same time a major negative effect--we lost 20+ turns of early production from that powerful city.

CFR, who are not allowed to participate here yet, had a clever solution. They researched Alphabet and traded it for peace. In doing so, they accomplished a few things: 1) they were able to trade it for peace with all AIs, 2) by not having to re-DoW with Cyrus and Asoka, they didn't accumulate extra negative attitude points so later on they were able to have OBs with them and get more lucrative trade routes, 3) they were able to get an number of other techs in peace treaty trades, if they so chose, and 4) (according to Obormot and Balbes) certain AIs were more likely to research Drama, Literature or other cultural techs instead of going for Feudalism!. The one drawback of this choice that I see is that Alphabet was not a tech they needed for their Conquest strategy (unless they were to get IW for free in trade).

So what I'm curious about is:

How did you deal with war weariness?
What other power moves did you guys make in your game?​

 

[Mad Professor]

We went fairly quickly to IW I seem to remember and I also remember the barbs having a great deal of joy with their swords and axes on the main continent. The barbs owned a couple of Japanese cities for most of the game as a result of our early arrival at IW.

WW was a killer for us. I'd be interested to see comments people make on how they dealt with it early. It really slowed us up and we couldn't deal properly with it.

A defining period for us that might have changed things for the better had it been different was a babrbarian galley sailing around in circles and back and forth near Greece never quite giving us the map info we needed - is there a possibility of a bridge to Greece, or are we going to have to go the other way? We never found out until we were committed to the other direction. Perhaps if we'd gone the two ways at once we would have finished more quickly. We did eventually arrive on the main continent from two directions via China, but later! The moral of that story is perhaps not to wait around for the barbarians to tell you something if they're your team mates. go find out for yourself!

 

[Lexad]

How did you deal with war weariness?

Whip till your hands bleed. We kept in the beginning our cities mostly at pop 2.

 

[Frederiksberg]

A defining period for us that might have changed things for the better had it been different was a babrbarian galley sailing around in circles and back and forth near Greece never quite giving us the map info we needed - is there a possibility of a bridge to Greece, or are we going to have to go the other way? We never found out until we were committed to the other direction. Perhaps if we'd gone the two ways at once we would have finished more quickly. We did eventually arrive on the main continent from two directions via China, but later! The moral of that story is perhaps not to wait around for the barbarians to tell you something if they're your team mates. go find out for yourself!

I learned something else from this. Stay flexible! We needed the iron anyway and settling on top of the iron was only slightly better than settling south of iron which had the flexibility that we could go to Greece this way if it turned out that there was indeed coast between the SE island and the Greek Island. There was no way we could investigate this ourselves since we needed the cultural bridge first in order to go down there...

 

[KMadCandy]

i learned a lot just by observing various teams (silently of course) while they played. things about aiming for early conquest/domination. strategies of attacking the closest or farthest civ first. whipping to hush up the whiners. i have a lot to learn about warmongering and this game was spiffy for that . thanks to all, from an eavesdropper.

 

[Erkon]

This is the history of
Temujin the Terrible of Mongolia
born by the the Murky Waters tribe.​

Temujin was a fearless warrior and his blood lust was inherited by his descendants. So was his inability to govern his empire, which he delegated to eight clans. These eight clans acted as councilors in what was later named as Council of Blood. Clan Erkon was elected as permanent chairman. The other councilors came from clan Murky, clan Klarius, clan Big Pig, clan Jesusin, clan Mîtiu, clan LowtherCastle and clan Gnejs. All governing decisions and warfare plans were handled by these eight. It was also arranged that the Right of Veto was regularly circulated.

In the dawn of history it happens so that Temujin is blessed with clairvoyance of the outcasts, be it animals of humans. What he witnessed angered him and he swore a sacred oath that no man or woman who impose their will on others shall be allowed to walk the surface of the earth. By his words, he condemned the tribes of Asoka, Saladin, Alexander, Qin Shi Huang, Cyrus, Tokugawa and Isabella to utter destruction.

Temujin then ordered the Council of Blood to create a plan for total extinction of the tyrants, and the Council begun their planning. And they planned. And planned further more. Then, after many moon passages, they presented to Temujin the first part of the plan: “We shall build a capital and it shall be wonderful and it shall be named Murky Waters”. Temujin waited for the rest of the plan, and when nothing more was presented, he was struck by heart failure. So ends the history of the Temujin the First. The Council of Blood rejoiced in the death of their leader, since they could now order a complete exploration of the surroundings before Temujin the Second reached manhood. The tribe of Murky Waters spent 30 years as nomads until they agreed to settle on top of the grave of Temujin the First.

Then the Council sat down for many Sun Passages and debated what the shamans should investigate. They decided to learn how to make axes, since Temjin was not only clairvoyant, but also telepathic so he could instruct the Outcasts how to build their own axes. Not all Outcasts would listen to him, but one third did, and one such clan of Outcasts managed to capture the capital of Cyrus. And there was much rejoice and many slaves where slaughtered to honor Temujin and the Council of Blood.

From then on, the Council of Blood governed the Mongolian Empire and decided to expand. Many Temujin leaders were born and died until the Council decided to found a second settlement next to a source of copper (called Erkopper). Great was the strife in the Council regarding the exact location, and Klarius used his veto to prevent another heart failure of Temujin the Whatever. A third settlement next to the golden mountain was also founded. The location of that third city was very unsimilar to what characterizes fjords, so it was named Drojf.

The sight of the Outcasts revealed that the earth was indeed cylindrical, and that simple boats would suffice to visit The Great Continent and the Minor Islands. There was again much rejoice and many slaves where again slaughtered.

It was then decided that there should be no delay in the Quest for Conquest. The funding of the conquest shall be drawn from accumulated treasury and pillage from the city of the Tyrants. The voice of Erkon the Wise rang clear that economic centers (aka cottages) were needed, but no other councilors paid any attention. The shamans shall focus only on discoveries that have immediate effect on the war. No fancy things. Only one thing mattered: Kill'em! Kill'em all!!

The Council was assembled and bold plans generated. The galleys need navigational aid, and two outposts (one in the north was named Qin-Gate and one to the west was named West-Gate) would enable over seas travel. The path to the east was postponed since Alexander the Tyrant was not perceived as any great threat.

However, before these two gates were founded, the suffering of the Outcasts drove Temujin insane. The Empire was in turmoil. The spirit of the people was drained by anguish of the Outcasts. The Council was again assembled, and again many Moon Passages passed. And many Planet Passages passed. And the shamans claimed that several Galactic Orbits occurred. After that claim, the shamans had to cut down on the smoke. 500 slates of rock were used to document the discussion. Then they Council agreed on gifting the city of Erkopper to Asoka the Tyrant for peace. This had a calming effect on the populace. The city was later recaptured and then peace was agreed on again. The city was then gifted to Tokugawa the Tyrant, subsequently recaptured, but it took several years until Tokugawa agreed on peace (after the Outcasts razed Satsuma).

Temujin was then sent North, West and South. It was very fortunate that there were many offsprings alive by now, so each Temujin could lead a legion each. Cities begun to fall for their wrath all of the Cylinder. Keshiks raced the Great Plains of the Great Continent and destroyed the oppressors. All people of the world was finally Outcasts in the year 1112 AD. Temujin rejoiced, and the Council was disbanded, and many slaves were slaughtered in celebrations.

The records of the history can be found here.

Prologue:
Clan Jesusin was given control over Tokugawa lands, which they renamed Spain.
Clan Big Pig was given control of Alexander island, which they renamed Great Britain.
Clan LowtherCastle and clan Murky were given control of the original continent, which they renamed America.
Clan Klarius was given control of Asoka lands, which they renamed Germany.
Clan Mîtiu was given control of Isabella lands, which they renamed Rumania.
Clan Erkon and clan Gnejs were given control of Qin Land, which they renamed to Sweden.

 

[Harbourboy]

We never managed to come up with an effective counter to War Weariness, which crippled us pretty much throughout the whole game.

 

[DaviddesJ]

In SG5, for example, Murky Waters decided to research BW first

Our team (Smurkz) reasoned as you did. Yet, as it turns out, we both would have done considerably better with AH first. The random factor is still pretty big.

CFR, who are not allowed to participate here yet, had a clever solution. They researched Alphabet and traded it for peace.

We did that too, although perhaps not quickly enough.