classical_hero
In whom I trust
I have said that we should vacate the Continent that we are on. That is why a successful war against the Spainish and Celts is necessary for the goal of the game.crazybeard said:
SGOTM 9 - Bede
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
crazybeard
Warlord
It appears as though everyone is after everyone else on the other continent, but do we see any actual evidence that they are fighting?
I see the Celts have a city on our continent. Let's not overlook it in the overseas planning.
Gandhi has finally figured out Map Making! Let's hold a parade or something, but we better get a Galley or two on the Inland Sea (probably fastest to build them there).
@ch As I understand your plan, it is to relocate to the other continent and cede our current positiion to the Indians. My plan is to cede the Spanish homeland to India and keep our current position. Since my plan allows us to keep our homeland, I prefer it. Well, of course I do, it's mine after all
I see the Celts have a city on our continent. Let's not overlook it in the overseas planning.
Gandhi has finally figured out Map Making! Let's hold a parade or something, but we better get a Galley or two on the Inland Sea (probably fastest to build them there).
@ch As I understand your plan, it is to relocate to the other continent and cede our current positiion to the Indians. My plan is to cede the Spanish homeland to India and keep our current position. Since my plan allows us to keep our homeland, I prefer it. Well, of course I do, it's mine after all
Marc Aurel
Philosopher Emperor
@ Crakie, well done, you fixed the Spanish problem quite fast!
@ crazybeard: Not so easy to place the Indians everywhere you want, imho.
Since we are at war, (we cannot just hand over every city) we have to look where the Indians are heading by themselves and can only make way where we think it would be fine they go and block the path to terrain we don't want them to occupy - at least in the beginning of their expansion phase. That means the first expansion has to take place on our continent. And once they have spread there, it would be a larger effort to 'persuade' them to settle somewhere else. But that's for later. At the moment we have to ensure they start to grow somehow and keeping our own ability to act would mean to have our core somewhere out of Indias reach. So we should pass workers to the city of choice, make them join this city and put a large military force inside to make the free palace jump once Indian forces come close to Bedeville and march in. I think before we move on we should discuss our envisaged target for our civ and the Indians, too.
@ crazybeard: Not so easy to place the Indians everywhere you want, imho.
Since we are at war, (we cannot just hand over every city) we have to look where the Indians are heading by themselves and can only make way where we think it would be fine they go and block the path to terrain we don't want them to occupy - at least in the beginning of their expansion phase. That means the first expansion has to take place on our continent. And once they have spread there, it would be a larger effort to 'persuade' them to settle somewhere else. But that's for later. At the moment we have to ensure they start to grow somehow and keeping our own ability to act would mean to have our core somewhere out of Indias reach. So we should pass workers to the city of choice, make them join this city and put a large military force inside to make the free palace jump once Indian forces come close to Bedeville and march in. I think before we move on we should discuss our envisaged target for our civ and the Indians, too.
I see the Indians moving up the weatern arm into old Carthage, while we keep control of the eastern side, as well as any Mongol territory we can grab and hold.
Getting India to move overseas is going to be darn difficult. So we need to get to resettling the Spanish island. I am real disappointed we didn'y pull another general in all that warfare. That would have greatly simplified the process of moving the palace.
Getting India to move overseas is going to be darn difficult. So we need to get to resettling the Spanish island. I am real disappointed we didn'y pull another general in all that warfare. That would have greatly simplified the process of moving the palace.
crazybeard
Warlord
Bede said:
This seems to be the method that keeps everyone reasonably happy. However, it does resemble the "very risky" strategy I outlined earlier - Us, Lincoln, Osman, and Gandhi. While we'll be the big bear in that forest, bears sometimes get eaten.
Crakie
Soupnazi
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2004
- Messages
- 527
We should start to vacate the former Carthage cities and allow the Indians to take them over. Once they have a decent number of cities, we beserk the Indian capitol to relocate it.
As for the Celts and the Mongols, they need to be seriously hurt, but I don't want to eliminate them. I'd like to take out what are now their core cities and leave them some corrupt ones. While they rebuild a core, the Indians can catch up. This strategy may need some fine-tuning now and again - taking a few cities more when they still research too quickly, or giving some back when we need them to research quicker. But that's what monarchy is good for - I was starting to doubt the monarchy choice to be honest.
As for the Celts and the Mongols, they need to be seriously hurt, but I don't want to eliminate them. I'd like to take out what are now their core cities and leave them some corrupt ones. While they rebuild a core, the Indians can catch up. This strategy may need some fine-tuning now and again - taking a few cities more when they still research too quickly, or giving some back when we need them to research quicker. But that's what monarchy is good for - I was starting to doubt the monarchy choice to be honest.
Marc Aurel
Philosopher Emperor
OK, I see we agree on the actual situation and the next steps. I agree to leading India to old Carthage.
@ Bede: Yes, it's a pity we didn't get a seond Great Leader for the relocation of our centre, but we should use the palace jump now. We have no direct need of Bedeville, the SoZ has served its purpose so far and AC's start to become really weak units compared to riflemen. As you belong to the guys writing education articles for the war academy, you surely know DaveMcW's material concerning it:
When the capital city is razed or abandoned, each city in the empire scores
3 points per national citizen
1 point per foreign citizen
1 point per neighboring town (1-6)
2 points per neighboring city (7-12)
3 points per neighboring metropolis (13+)
1 point per military unit
We have to transfer some Viking workers to i.e. Madrid, found a couple of cities around by some new settlers, let India conquer the cities west of Bedeville and put that many units inside Madrid until the formula above gives the highest value for this city and our new core is there.
@ Bede: Yes, it's a pity we didn't get a seond Great Leader for the relocation of our centre, but we should use the palace jump now. We have no direct need of Bedeville, the SoZ has served its purpose so far and AC's start to become really weak units compared to riflemen. As you belong to the guys writing education articles for the war academy, you surely know DaveMcW's material concerning it:
When the capital city is razed or abandoned, each city in the empire scores
3 points per national citizen
1 point per foreign citizen
1 point per neighboring town (1-6)
2 points per neighboring city (7-12)
3 points per neighboring metropolis (13+)
1 point per military unit
We have to transfer some Viking workers to i.e. Madrid, found a couple of cities around by some new settlers, let India conquer the cities west of Bedeville and put that many units inside Madrid until the formula above gives the highest value for this city and our new core is there.
Moving the palace is couple of centuries, at least, out there. We need to get settled into the new home first. And let's make sure we control the key resources for the era before/if we move.
And now for the inevitble:
Roster check
crazybeard - you're up
Bede - made us new friends
Marc Aurel - kept the path
Bahzel
classical_hero - put the pain mainly in Spain
Crakie - burned more than Pampalona
madviking -
with the leash - skipped
And now for the inevitble:
Roster check
crazybeard - you're up
Bede - made us new friends
Marc Aurel - kept the path
Bahzel
classical_hero - put the pain mainly in Spain
Crakie - burned more than Pampalona
madviking -
with the leash - skippedcrazybeard
Warlord
OK. As usual, I don't have access to the CIII computer until 11ish, I'll take a
look around and check back in with an official "got it" post. As I see it, the goals are:
Take Madrid
Prepare for an invasion of the Celtic homeland
Take out the Celtic city on our continent
Reinforce the cities on the North coast of the Inland Sea against invasion.
Get a boat to Rusicade so that it can be evacuated as soon as Indian Galleys show up.
I doubt that there will be any invasion of Celtica during my turns, but we'll see.
look around and check back in with an official "got it" post. As I see it, the goals are:
Take Madrid
Prepare for an invasion of the Celtic homeland
Take out the Celtic city on our continent
Reinforce the cities on the North coast of the Inland Sea against invasion.
Get a boat to Rusicade so that it can be evacuated as soon as Indian Galleys show up.
I doubt that there will be any invasion of Celtica during my turns, but we'll see.
crazybeard
Warlord
Got it. But partway through turn 1, I got one of my vicious migraines. I'm going to have to take my pills and go to bed. I'll get this done tomorrow
In the IBT, Salmanca flipped back to Spain. This not only meant that we lost several units, but taking Madrid will not eliminate Spain. Spanish Musketmen were on the hills above (undefended) Toldedo, so I took out all Spanish units in our territory (other than the aforementioned Musketmen) and sued for Peace.
Izzy gave us Military Tradition and 9 Gold, but most important (IMHO) is that she gave us a ROP. This means that all our forces are still in position around Madrid. I've dispatched VSS Crazybeard with 3 Berserkers to retake Salmanca (I plan to raze it) got our injured mounted units onto a boat to heal, and,s ince the ROP gives us a road bonus in Spanish lands, got a couple of Knights into Toledo.
All for now. Must sleep.
In the IBT, Salmanca flipped back to Spain. This not only meant that we lost several units, but taking Madrid will not eliminate Spain. Spanish Musketmen were on the hills above (undefended) Toldedo, so I took out all Spanish units in our territory (other than the aforementioned Musketmen) and sued for Peace.
Izzy gave us Military Tradition and 9 Gold, but most important (IMHO) is that she gave us a ROP. This means that all our forces are still in position around Madrid. I've dispatched VSS Crazybeard with 3 Berserkers to retake Salmanca (I plan to raze it) got our injured mounted units onto a boat to heal, and,s ince the ROP gives us a road bonus in Spanish lands, got a couple of Knights into Toledo.
All for now. Must sleep.
Whatever you do, cb, don't be breaking any peace treaties. It is a nasty exploit IMHO, and if not against the rules it should be. RoP Rape is a time honored tradition in GOTM games so even though it is not a favorite tactic of mine, I will use it when called for.
Don't go to keeping any Spanish towns, burn 'em to the ground. We are not seeking a diplomatic victory here, and I hate losing troopers. In fact if I am in a Monarchy government I just move every trooper out of a captured town and use it for killing bait, if for some reason I want to keep the town.
Don't go to keeping any Spanish towns, burn 'em to the ground. We are not seeking a diplomatic victory here, and I hate losing troopers. In fact if I am in a Monarchy government I just move every trooper out of a captured town and use it for killing bait, if for some reason I want to keep the town.
madviking
north american scum
Umm... skip me...
I have a project to do...
I have a project to do...
crazybeard
Warlord
I'm not proud of the results, but I got it done. The save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Bede_SG009_AD1300_01.SAV
Mostly, I moved troops around and got them on ships for the assault on Celtica.I don't think I had one battle after turn 2. I can't do a proper turnlog, because I can't read my own notes (aren't migraines wonderful?), but here's a sketchy report:
0 1250 AD: Spanish Musketmen advance on Toledo, which is undefended. Salamanca flips back to Spain.
1 1255 AD: Izzy can't be taken out, and Toledo is in danger, so I sue for peace. Izzy gives up Military Tradition, 9 gold, and ROP.
Celts take Salamanca (!) VSS Crazybeard and 3 Zerks will keep watch.
2 1260 AD: Celts are now a Democracy.
3 1265 AD: Celts offer an alliance vs Spain. Tempting, but they won't sweeten the pot, so I decline.
4 1270 AD: Celts moive on the Ottomans
5 1275 AD: Sell Saltpeter to Ottomans for 9 gpt
6 1280 AD: Spain makes peace with America. Celtic boats headed for Spainish lands and Spanish Galleys headed for Salamanca reverse course.
7 1285 AD: Not surprisingly, Spain and Celts declare peace.
8 1290 AD: Celtic troops converge on Copenhagen from the general direction of Madrid. Threat or just passing through to Salamanca?
9 & 10 1295 &1300 AD: Not much worth mentioning. Our forces are ready to assault Celtic cities on our continent and the Spanish island, and a large amphib force is holding at Trondheim for assault on Celtic homeland. War with Celts may mean loss of Copenhagen, but that's no great loss.
Hope I didn't screw up too badly. Take it away, Cappy!
[EDIT: I forgot to mention, there is now a Caravel in Rusicade ready to do a Dunkirk.]
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Bede_SG009_AD1300_01.SAV
Mostly, I moved troops around and got them on ships for the assault on Celtica.I don't think I had one battle after turn 2. I can't do a proper turnlog, because I can't read my own notes (aren't migraines wonderful?), but here's a sketchy report:
0 1250 AD: Spanish Musketmen advance on Toledo, which is undefended. Salamanca flips back to Spain.
1 1255 AD: Izzy can't be taken out, and Toledo is in danger, so I sue for peace. Izzy gives up Military Tradition, 9 gold, and ROP.
Celts take Salamanca (!) VSS Crazybeard and 3 Zerks will keep watch.
2 1260 AD: Celts are now a Democracy.
3 1265 AD: Celts offer an alliance vs Spain. Tempting, but they won't sweeten the pot, so I decline.
4 1270 AD: Celts moive on the Ottomans
5 1275 AD: Sell Saltpeter to Ottomans for 9 gpt
6 1280 AD: Spain makes peace with America. Celtic boats headed for Spainish lands and Spanish Galleys headed for Salamanca reverse course.
7 1285 AD: Not surprisingly, Spain and Celts declare peace.
8 1290 AD: Celtic troops converge on Copenhagen from the general direction of Madrid. Threat or just passing through to Salamanca?
9 & 10 1295 &1300 AD: Not much worth mentioning. Our forces are ready to assault Celtic cities on our continent and the Spanish island, and a large amphib force is holding at Trondheim for assault on Celtic homeland. War with Celts may mean loss of Copenhagen, but that's no great loss.
Hope I didn't screw up too badly. Take it away, Cappy!
[EDIT: I forgot to mention, there is now a Caravel in Rusicade ready to do a Dunkirk.]
Roster check
Bede - on the hunt for Celtic scalps and maybe open a path for the Indian escape. Play tomorrow.
Marc Aurel - kept the path
Bahzel
classical_hero - put the pain mainly in Spain
Crakie - burned more than Pampalona
madviking - with the leash - skipped
crazybeard - made some progress
Bede - on the hunt for Celtic scalps and maybe open a path for the Indian escape. Play tomorrow.
Marc Aurel - kept the path
Bahzel
classical_hero - put the pain mainly in Spain
Crakie - burned more than Pampalona
madviking - with the leash - skipped
crazybeard - made some progress
Go Get em Bede!!! 
The following is just my suggestion if your going to use a defensive unit distraction to kill off some of Brennus's Offensive units.
I'd land the defensive units on the Iron Mountain between Eboracum and Agedincum. The 100% defense bonus will come in handy. Also as a side note is that Eboracum and Gergovia are both situated on Hills so bring plenty of Bombard units to soften them up.
The following is just my suggestion if your going to use a defensive unit distraction to kill off some of Brennus's Offensive units.
I'd land the defensive units on the Iron Mountain between Eboracum and Agedincum. The 100% defense bonus will come in handy. Also as a side note is that Eboracum and Gergovia are both situated on Hills so bring plenty of Bombard units to soften them up.
Marc Aurel
Philosopher Emperor
I will be offline this time for a couple of days. So this time I definitely have to skip. Sorry!
Due to high winds and turbulence(not to mention power failure) If I could swap with Bahzel that would be great. Otherwise I won't see this until Sunday!
Roster check
Bahzel - can you swap? If so you're up!
Bede - can play Sunday
Marc Aurel - needs a skip
classical_hero - put the pain mainly in Spain
Crakie - burned more than Pampalona
madviking - with the leash - skipped
crazybeard - made some progress
__________________
Roster check
Bahzel - can you swap? If so you're up!
Bede - can play Sunday
Marc Aurel - needs a skip
classical_hero - put the pain mainly in Spain
Crakie - burned more than Pampalona
madviking - with the leash - skipped
crazybeard - made some progress
__________________
I can get it. So I got it. 
Looked at the save and see that our attack force consists of no def units, so my def distraction suggestion is out.
CA2 shows a deal that we can make with the Ottomans to get us Music Theory.(not really needed though) Also shows that Coppenhagen has a min flip risk of 5.3% and max flip risk of 10.7%. Keep it or shall I abandon it and move the troops?
Shall I start the Celtic/Viking War or shall I finish off Isabella? We'd be in a much better position right now if Isabella hadn't gone on the rag my last turn set.
Looked at the save and see that our attack force consists of no def units, so my def distraction suggestion is out.
CA2 shows a deal that we can make with the Ottomans to get us Music Theory.(not really needed though) Also shows that Coppenhagen has a min flip risk of 5.3% and max flip risk of 10.7%. Keep it or shall I abandon it and move the troops?
Shall I start the Celtic/Viking War or shall I finish off Isabella? We'd be in a much better position right now if Isabella hadn't gone on the rag my last turn set.
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