SGOTM 9 - Bede

Looks like things are going quite well. Some points to ponder:

1. By my estimate, the Celts are at least 7 techs ahead of us. Is it better to try and catch up while Celts are in WW or to make nice and try to trade techs with them? Of course, to do this, we have to guess which techs the Celts don't have and aim for them, rather than the techs we really want.

2. Brennus controls the seas. We can't depend on units built on the home continent to defend (or even get to) the Spanish continent while we are war with him. This would make peace more attractive (or at least occassional 20-turn rebuildiing periods).

3. Ottomans and Americans are little more than speed bumps at this point. It's in our interest to keep them at war with the Celts, but Brennus will eventually swallow them up.

4. Crakie has taken out 3 Indian Spears. Before the Indians can build something new, they have to finish the Spear they are undoubtedly building now. With any luck, CH will see the first Indian Galleys.
 
@CB: I think we're better off if we keep fighting Brennus and lure him into Fascism. I don't think we will be able to trade techs with him and if we buy techs, we will only speed up his research. I propose to beeline to Replaceable Parts, then switch off research for upgrades to artillery and infantry and do some serious damage.

IF we get Brennus in Fascism, it may be worthwhile to make peace with him a number of turns before we land on his shores. He will revolt back to democracy and then again back to fascism. That's probably 8-10 turns of anarchy!
 
Argh! You're right! Let's keep him in Fascism then :)

Just to add to my shame, I am sort of playing a game with the Celts right now, in the multi-team demogame... whoops ;)
 
Okey-dokey, things are moving along nicely. Stomping in the north and holding in Spain.

If Brennus has gone Fascist as long as he is at war with someone he will stay Fascist. That he has bombers is not a good sign, but not really a bad one either as it reduces the costs of our acquisition of those techs and with the Mongols out of the game it reduces it even a little further.

On the other hand remember that the AI do not pay the same anarchy penalty as the human player in any case so government switching is less of an issue for them.

Keep the pressure on India until there is only that archer left standing. Then maybe Gandhi will build some boats and land on our shores. To encourage that behavior keep the towns to the west empty of troops. We still want to hang on to the eastern arm as that has the best possibilities of late IA resources (oil and rubber).

As the pressure at home starts to wane, and it will, keep moving troops over to the Spanish lands as needed. If there is spare cash in the treasury consider the use of rushed troops.


classical hero - got the game right on time - up
crazybeard - on deck
Bahzel - so much for Isabella
Bede - played Monday and parlayed us into the IA
Marc Aurel - got us where we needed to be vis a vis the rest of the world
Crakie - swapped with classical

madviking - on skip till heard from
 
There is a problem as there is no link to the save. Please remember to link the save here. I was still able to get from the GOTM website. I'll play tomorrow since it is late now and I need to go to bed.
 
Just a few thougts on when we might see the first Indian galley. As we all know, AI puts a weight factor on certain different alternatives respecting the constraints of the current situation. Then the RNG gets a number and the one or the other alternative is chosen. In this case it is the question:What unit will India build next? India can build :

-spears
-swords, since they have iron on their hill
-archers
-galleys
-settlers
-workers

Terribly I don't know the values, but from other games I know AI armies have from 10 times upward more defenders than ships. Seafaring might give a bonus to the probability of getting a ship. And being on a island also, but shamefully I don't know. However we can assume the probability to get a defender aound 30-40%, getting a sword 40-50% (good attacker and defender), getting an archer less than 10% and getting a galley 5-15% depending on the bonus they get for sitting on an island. So it seems better to kill at least 10 units in Delhi. But I would not vote for killing more since India needs something to load on that galley for invasion and they would not strip their capital of defenders for that invasion, so cutting all Indian units despite of the archer down would immensly slow down the growth process of India. With working the whales, I think India has a production of 7, what means 5 turns for a galley or a sword, 3 turns for a spear or an archer. So if we have bad luck it lasts 40 turns until one galley leaves the Indian docks.
 
Here is the save. http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Bede_SG009_AD1550_01.SAV

Turn Zero. I attacked a Celt destroyer and it is now redlined. I wish I had lethal bombardment for cannons.

IBT. We were bombed by some bombers. We got some injuries as a result and we lost some citizens in Lillehammer. We have allowed the Celts to have grown too powerful. I am facing destroyers and Infantry. We should have attacked them while we had a chance. We now are facing Aircraft which will desimate our fleet.

Turn One. I am trying to take over Bursa. I will be focusing most of my troops there. I have moved most of the Calvary to Almarikh. I estimate that the Celts are at least ten techs ahead of us. :eek: I have upped the science rate so that we are losing money, but we electricity much faster. I have made it a goal of our to get Replaceable parts because then we will be albe to get artillery and that will be our greatest weapon and also we will be able to build ourselve Infantry, which is what is the Celts best weapon ATM.

IBT. Things are mot looking good. We are going to get killed trying to attack the Celts.

Turn two. I am doing some micromanaging so that we can get better production and therefore more units. As far as I can tell, this has been sorely lacking so far.

IBT. More Bombardment. An Invasion force has landed on the former Spainsih lands

Turn three. I mangaged to kill an Infantry and a Guerilla of the invasion force. I was also able to kill an Infantry near Almarikh. Great news. I was albe to take Bursa and thus remove the Celts from our Island. I lost six calvary, I think. The cost was worth it. Unfortunately I had to make peace with the Celts, otherwise I would have lost the Spainish Island. It was a tough choice, but the right one considering the circumstance. It will give us a chance to recoup and get us some better units before we take on the Celts again. I am proposing that we wait until we get Replaceable Parts before we go to war with the Celts again.

IBT. Not much. The Celts are still in our territory.

Turn four. I am starting to move some units in preparation for an attack on the Celts.

Turn five. Soon I will have a stack of Cavs and Cannons on the spainish Island.

Turn six We have arrived at the Spainish Island. The Drop off point is Bodo.

Turn seven. More of the same. We are producing more Calvaries. We are still under our allowe unit totals.

Turn Eight. We have Electricity. And now we are going for Replaceable parts. The continuous production of Cavs is going ever onwards. I am bringing the money so that we can have cash available for the many upgrades that we will be doing in the near future. By my calculations, we will need 3600 gold just for the upgrades of the cannons. We will also need 3150 gold just to upgrade the Musketmen to Infantry. So we need to be saving money now. We must now by the cheapest brand of toilet paper we can find. We must be scrooges if we are ever to get that money.

Turn Nine. More of the same.

Turn Ten. Not much to report.

I have uploaded a picture of the mainland of the Celts. This will be usefull for us to determine the best place for us to attack the Celts from.


We have ten more turns of researching Replaceable Parts. And then we can move onto killing the celts, assuming they haven't got Tanks yet.
 
No sign of the Hindu turtle? This is carrying passive resistance a little too far.

Nice job cleaning up the messes the rest of us left.

Infantry and artillery will be the nutcrackers here.




Roster check:
crazybeard - up
Bahzel - so much for Isabella
Bede - played Monday and parlayed us into the IA
Marc Aurel - got us where we needed to be vis a vis the rest of the world
Crakie - swapped with classical
classical hero - did what was necessary

madviking - slot is there when you say you're ready
 
Marc Aurel said:
Since I cannot check this by loading the save, how many Indians did you kill?
Click to expand...
I did not kill any Indians because it will be pointless at this stage to do that. We should only do that when we are getting near the Modern Age, which is when we can do this.
 
OK, got it. But I want some feedback before I do anything.

@c_h: The plan (or at least my plan) is to get Gandhi off that island before the Modern Age, which is when all the other teams will do it.

@Mason: I seriously doubt that India will build Settler or Workers in this situation - they're useless without a Galley. A human opponent would, of course, build a Galley now. But the AI may decide to build the superior attacker (Swords - does Gandhi have Iron? if so, how?). If he has Swords, we'll know soon enough.

Point of attack: First, I assume that I am not to break the peace with the Celts, and use my tyrns to build up and position our troops. The Celts may take the decision out of my hands at some point. Brennus controls the seas and the skies. The only way we get any substantial forces to the Spanish continent is during peacetime.
Second, when the attack comes, the logical place would seem to be Agedincom, Burdigala, and the narrow space in between. Both Celtic and American cultural radii need to be allowed for.
Third, a possible strategic ploy: If we can take Burdigala from the Celts, instead of razing it, give it to the Americans. That may prevent a cultural flip and lessen our worries.

Money: Researching Replaceable Parts and upgrading units we are gonna need mucho dinero. Suggestions on where to get it (or, more specifically, how to get it from the Celts)

NB: I need to give this computer back (until 11ish). Do we have one or more Barracks on the Spanish continent?
 
Hi crazybeard,

I did not mention that he will build settlers. I only listed what Gandhi can build but left settlers and workers from the probability assumptions as you may have noticed. So we do not disagree. OTOH I often saw useless settlers in conquered AI cities - as reserves or so. Don't ask me why.
On the peace issue, let's hear Bede first, cause I think that's crucial. Bede argued that Celts are not on the way to launch, cause soon they will revolt to Fascism when in war. War weariness is reduced no matter what was the value before in 20 turns. So he regains WW/20 each turn. Without war we cannot get Brennus out of Democracy and he will research at 4 turns per tech (maybe 5) for his 12-15 missing techs. With an estimate of 6 turns to build last Space ship part after robotics (iron works in Entremont and hoover dam) he is maximum 81 turns away from launch. Since Brennus had 7 turns to recover from an estimate of 78 (34 from my turns and 32 from Crakies two cities plus le's say 6 killed defenders= 12ww) he is back to 78 - 78*7/20=51. These are the numbers. Everything depends on our/your strategy now. Will we be that fast with peace to get the Celtic problem done? Or do we want to buy some time by war. You know, 20k culture is still 100 turns ahead.
To see the iron just press Ctrl/SHift/m to see the terrain without anything else. Swords will be the most common Indian weapon.
Generally I think you are right, build up our forces, cannons and muskets and get us to replacable parts.
 
We've been terrible in our micromanagement and general infrastructure. I think that and our choice for monarchy has proven disastrous. Right now we could have gotten alot of tax collectors or scientists in corrupt lands (that we even could have ICS'ed). On the upside, we are provided with quite the challenge!
 
@cb, there should be at least one barracks on the Spanish lands. Work the spanish territory for scientists so we can cut down the spending budget, that also applies to the towns in the north of our island. See if you can't build up Abe as a counterweight to Brennus. It may be too late but sell what you can and give away the rest, pretend you're an AI.

Use the peace period to build troops and get them in position. The risk to troops in ships with the Celtic air out there during war time is just too high. If Brennus is still a Democracy there is not much we can do about that. If he is Fascist it is unlikely he will revolt back.
 
Just a quick note on Delhi - I took out a Spear with a Zerk, and was NOT hit by missile fire. I'm now too worried to attack again.

Done. I'm reasonably sure that I didn't screw anything up too badly. We're still at peace with everyone except India, and India is still stuck on Fantasy Island.

We have Replacement Parts. More importantly, we have Rubber! I'll be back with a more detailed report tomorrow. In the meantime:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Bede_SG009_AD1600_01.SAV

I usually turn the game over to Bede, but I don't know where he wants to insert madviking in the rotation. (Welcome back, MV)
 
Roster check:

Roster check:

madviking - up. wait till you have a chance to review cb's log, otherwise keep your head in the Micromanaging and get some infantry and arty to the islands
Bede - played Monday and parlayed us into the IA
Bahzel - so much for Isabella
Marc Aurel - got us where we needed to be vis a vis the rest of the world
Crakie - swapped with classical
classical hero - did what was necessary
crazybeard - parts is parts :goodjob:
 
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