SGOTM 9 - Hagar

[Andronicus]

In your test game, he razed city after city and starved down the few he wanted. My belief (I could be wrong) is that he did it because of flip danger. He has no idea that we would refuse it.

In that game I think he may have razed because of the upkeep of all the improvements - selling these off first (perhaps with exception of market ) might help. Also starving down to smaller size should mean he has less resistors. I did get quite a few flips (often multiple times) of cities he did keep but of course I refused.

 

[juballs2001]

Suggest we let Gandhi escape as soon as poss so he starts to gain control of continent. Recommend delay allowing capture of WV until all techs req for space have been discovered as I would hate to have to rely on Gandhi self researching even 1 modern age tech. My experience in my trial game suggests he wont start building SS until he is not at war with anyone on the same continent. Thus once we give him WV with all the techs he requires, we want him to get the continent ASAP.

ok i agree that we should have us and another civ up to date with all space techs.

however, i totally believe that civ should be spain as they pose no threat to us, if we let celts grow to large i fear a very time consuming war.

ghandi wont take WV until we let him on our land, and that would be in the modern age because he is hydrophobic

 

[markh]

In that game I think he may have razed because of the upkeep of all the improvements - selling these off first (perhaps with exception of market ) might help. Also starving down to smaller size should mean he has less resistors. I did get quite a few flips (often multiple times) of cities he did keep but of course I refused.

I do not know whether selling all cultural buildings will prevent him razing it as these would be gone anyway as soon as he takes the city. In my opinion the cultural points that the city gathered will be the important factor and WV will have a lot of it in the modern ages.

 

[Andronicus]

I do not know whether selling all cultural buildings will prevent him razing it as these would be gone anyway as soon as he takes the city. In my opinion the cultural points that the city gathered will be the important factor and WV will have a lot of it in the modern ages.

I do not expect Gandhi to raze WV - the AI tends to keep cities with wonders in them.
I suspect you are right about selling cultural improvements not making any diff - makes sense to sell them anyway.

 

[Andronicus]

ok i agree that we should have us and another civ up to date with all space techs.

Yes (this can be Otto since we have to gift him to modern age anyway for his freebie tech)

however, i totally believe that civ should be spain as they pose no threat to us, if we let celts grow to large i fear a very time consuming war

.
Yes and no.
Yes that civ (with respect to which civ we ally and gift cities to for Gandhi to take) should be either of Spain or America - I prefer America because if we are going to take over Spain we dont want any Spain left to cause flips. Not Celts because Celts may be too strong for Gandhi, not Otto as he will likely be too advanced - we dont want this civ to have nationalism and be able to draft.
No I dont fear a late war against Celts - I'm certain that with bombers and tanks any war would be very short and decisive - particuarly if we abuse a ROP

ghandi wont take WV until we let him on our land, and that would be in the modern age because he is hydrophobic

Other teams have found Gandhi to be hydrophobic, I presume that they have tried to prune back Gandhi's units to allow them to discover MM only to find they didnt build a boat. I still feel its worth a try ourselves - we may get lucky if circumstances are slightly different.
In either case defending WV against AA units will be easy until we want to gift it (ie after all req SS techs researched)

 

[markh]

I do not expect Gandhi to raze WV - the AI tends to keep cities with wonders in them.
I suspect you are right about selling cultural improvements not making any diff - makes sense to sell them anyway.

Of course, we should take the cash from selling the cultural buildings.
We just have to see what he does with WV when the time comes. No way to make a secure prediction.

I agree that we should try and kill his defenders and see whether he builds a boat. Maybe the other teams did not have any land left to settle for Gandhi, so he does not see any chance to settle anywhere and does not build a boat. We should have a site with unsettled land near him to encourage him to build a settler. The AI is always keen to settle, so he might build a boat in that case.

 

[Andronicus]

Consideration of future if we use Celts as research partner

Implications

1) Research will be done on home isle - so need to build unis.
2) ? army big enough already to take care of Spain - particuarly with 3 cav armies - so can switch from military builds in most cities - still need our naval transport ? 6 galleons suffic (3 cav armies and 12 cavs)
3) Need to maximise Celtic research
i) trade all lux to Celts as soon as researched magnetism (in exchange for their wool) - dont want them (or us) wasting beakers on lux. Renew every 20 turns
ii) ? allow them to build Cop & Newtons - Entremont appears to be a super city (look at those wool) rapidly building wonders
iii) gift / sell techs so they are not researching ones we already have. Hold onto 1 just prior to 20 turn lux deals expiring to ensure they renew.
3) Need to get science farms up and running - will be necessary to get near 4 turn research once reach IA. RR will add to these significantly
4) ToE for electronics and atomic as usual
5) Any suggestions to help manipulate / anticipate Celts research into techs that will be helpful ( I suspect they will waste some time researching music theory / free artistry - hopefully they will research a modern age tech or 2 for us and banking - likelihood of IA tech is low as likely to be on optional techs)
6) Keep Otto alive for IA and MA free techs
7) Keep Americans alive as backward recipients of our gift cities to India
edit 8) Spanish land would become super science farm


Crystal ball gazing

Middle Ages 8-12 turns
3 techs to research should get 4 turn research
best outcome if Celts do Banks for us

Industrial Ages 60 - 65 turns
15 techs, ? ave 5 turn research, 2 freebies with ToE, 1 freebie Otto (hopefully not Nationalism), ?? poss Celt assistance - I wouldnt count on it

ie Gandhi will be released in 60-80 turns approx

Modern Ages 45-50 turns
12 techs - ? ave 5 turn research, Otto freebie, ? 1-2 researched by Celts

Based on this we should change current situation to push infrastructure on home continent with expectation that this will have use for approx 80-120 turns from now. After we complete research further science redundant and we can blat the Celts

Any thoughts?

 

[Abegweit]

Pre-flight

Per discussion, I sell Chemistry to Brennus for 131 gptd and prepare for city and infra builds as well as an assault on Spain. As I cannot attain 4 turn research on Magnetism, I select Banking instead and sell Physics to the Celts in the hope they will research something useful. I am disappointed to discover that we have been through our GA but not a single city has a market. These are priorities for luxes and growth. We need settlers and workers and settlers and workers and marketplaces and universities. Trondheim, WV and Stavenger will be transformed into settler/worker factories while other core cities concentrate on infra and growth. Stavenger is switched from a cav to granary and most other core cities are switched to marketplaces and ducts. Much micro management is required everywhere Several courthouse builds in hopelessly corrupt cities are vetoed.

In the meantime, the military machine will be turned towards Spain.

510 Carthage cannon -> settler
Trondheim worker->worker
WV Cav -> worker
Stavenger granary -> worker
Haugesund cannon -> settler
Falun founded -> worker

A cavalry with goto orders is found near Rusicade

520 Get the Pentagon notice
Trondheim worker->settler
WV worker->worker
Leptis Magna worker->worker
Svolvaer Caravel -> worker
Rej market-> uni

530 Trondheim worker -> settler
WV worker -> worker
Copenhagen market -> uni
Oslo market -> uni
Stavenger worker -> worker
fold worker into Oslo
fold worker into Stockholm
8.1.1

540 Banking -> Magnetism
WV worker -> worker
Molde harbour -> duct
Celts start JS Bach's
Establish embassy with Izzie. Madrid is defend by 6 regular muskets
DOW and land the army with 3 vet and 2 elite cavs.
Merge worker into Oslo.
100% science to get Mag in 4. Several cities require specialists

550 Karakorum worker -> worker
WV worker -> worker
Birka market -> uni
Stavanger worker -> worker
Almarikh worker -> worker
Farsund cav -> settler
Sarpsborg harbour -> worker
Peace to Osmon for 61g + Antalya
Army takes 3 muskets at the cost of 2 HP [3-0]
0.9.1 and mag is still due in three
Fold worker into Birka

560 Trondheim settler -> settler
WV worker -> worker
FC Market -> uni
Lillehammer settler -> settler
Entremont finishes Sistine
fold worker into Stockholm
three more muskets fall and Madrid is ours. [6-0]
Elite cav attacks spearman in the open and gets a leader [7-0]
Elite cav attacks warriors [8-0]


570 WV worker -> worker
Stavenger worker -> worker
Elite cav vs horse [9-0]
Hurry harbour at Hippo.
1.8.1

580 Mag -> ToG
WV worker -> worker
Stockholm market -> harbour
Hippo harbour -> settler
Alesund berserk -> settler
Upgrade caravels to galleons @ Hippo
Fold worker into Birka
Fold worker into Copenhagen
Helsinki founded -> settler

Elite knight vs horse -> another leader! [10-0]
Army vs spear [11-0]
Elite Knight vs warrior [12-0]
Elite cav vs spear [13-0]
Elite knight vs archer [14-0]

590 Carthage setter -> settler
Trondheim settler -> settler
WV worker -> worker
Iznik worker -> worker
Aahus duct -> market
Stavanger worker -> worker
Uskadar worker -> worker
Short rush Vadso, Odense and Fauske. Ducts due in three, four and four respectively.
Fold worker into Copenhagen
Elite zerk vs warrior [15-0]
Elite knight vs longbow [16-0]

600 WV worker -> settler
Karasjok market -> harbour
fold worker into Stockholm
Elite cav vs spear [17-0]
Elite cav vs warrior [18-0]
Elite knight vs spear [19-0]
Elite knight vs archer [20-0]

610 elite knight retreats from longbow on defence
elite galley defeats reg galley on defence [21-0]

Istanbul worker -> worker
Stockholm harbour -> uni
Stavanger worker -> worker
Bodo court -> lib
Falun worker -> worker
Keflavik founded -> harbour
cav army takes Seville [23-0]
cav army take Toledo [25-0]
cav army attacks Barcelona [27-0]
elite zerk kills longbow [28-0]
cav army takes Barcelona [30-0]
elite berserk vs spear [31-0]
elite cav vs warrior [32-0]

trade Banking to Celts for Wool, wines, ToG and 9g. It turns out that giving Physics to Brennus was a small benefit. It saved a turn to the IA.

I was going to do more to get the years aligned properly but I think I'll stop stop here. We are researching @ a six-turn rate currently and will have to do better. Many unis are on the way. This should help considerably.

We are badly in need of cities to fill up the world. Spain is a lovely rich country and they should be packed in there. Both Trondheim and WV have been converted into settler factories for this purpose. Stavanger is a worker factory and I have been using it to grow the cities in the area.

IMO, Farsund and Alesund should not exist. There are too many cities in the area. I know our idea was to build a science farm there but it actually is productive and the cities should be allowed to grow. This is why both of them are building settlers. Comments?

We can eat up the world if we choose with our five armies. The question is whether we want to do so. The Celts have been a nice trading partner and are paying us 152 gpt currently plus two luxes. The latter will be less important once the Spanish luxes are online. IMO, we should conquer the world at the pace we can fill it up.

Notes to next player:

1. There is a worker in Stockholm to be folded into the city
2. WV needs to build a settler in 2 turns in order to set up properly for a 4-turn factory. This is just possible with some micro-management. There are nine shields in the box. Twenty-one more are needed.
3. The cities north and west of Stavanger that are about to complete their aqueducts need to grow rapidly. Stavanger should feed them workers for many turns. Vadso alone could use four.
4. There are a fair number of units in Spain which still have movement. All the cities were captured this turn except Madrid so pack the troops in to squash the resistance everywhere but there.
5. New cities should go in places with plenty of food.
6. Lillehammer, Theveste and Elverun are producing settlers too fast due to forest chops. The chops were certainly needed in order to get food around. IMO, this was more important than the wasted shields. In any case, the deer should be given to Lillehammer as soon as Elverun has completed its settler to prevent still further waste and getting more food to Theveste is a priority.
7. Molde needs to grow-grow-grow! This is a core city and will be a powerful producer. It should have about 4-6 workers. I regret starting the duct. It should have built a couple of workers first. Too late now.

I think we should rush a few improvements. A couple of selected unis in places like Copenhagen which are high gold/low shield would be good choices. A duct in Molde following by 2 quick workers would also be good.

 

[Andronicus]

"Got it" - will play in 10 hours after my kids finish hosting a AOE3 LAN party

Very different look to map now - lots of Vike purple

We need settlers and workers and settlers and workers and marketplaces and universities. Trondheim, WV and Stavenger will be transformed into settler/worker factories while other core cities concentrate on infra and growth. Stavenger is switched from a cav to granary and most other core cities are switched to marketplaces and ducts. ... Several courthouse builds in hopelessly corrupt cities are vetoed.

Agree - I admit I was as guilty as anyone concentrating instead on military - in retrospect this wasnt as urgent - sorry

540 Celts start JS Bach's


560 Entremont finishes Sistine

610 trade Banking to Celts for Wool, wines, ToG and 9g. It turns out that giving Physics to Brennus was a small benefit. It saved a turn to the IA.

Appears I seroiusly underestimated Celts research capabilities. I strongly believe we should keep / encourage them as research partners. There is no way we can get the science benefits out of Celtic lands that Celts get without abandoning our original core.

elite cav vs warrior [32-0]

Efficient fighting - armies v muskets and cavs v rubbish

IMO, Farsund and Alesund should not exist. There are too many cities in the area. I know our idea was to build a science farm there but it actually is productive and the cities should be allowed to grow. This is why both of them are building settlers. Comments?

Agree. Since FP built this area has been far less corrupt, these 2 towns are superfluous preventing efficient expansion of surrounding towns / cities.

We can eat up the world if we choose with our five armies. The question is whether we want to do so. The Celts have been a nice trading partner and are paying us 152 gpt currently plus two luxes. The latter will be less important once the Spanish luxes are online. IMO, we should conquer the world at the pace we can fill it up.

As I stated above I believe we should keep the Celts until all required techs have been researched. We cannot occupy all home continent plus Spain plus Celt lands without risking exceeding dom limit anyway.

Notes to next player:

1. There is a worker in Stockholm to be folded into the city
2. WV needs to build a settler in 2 turns in order to set up properly for a 4-turn factory. This is just possible with some micro-management. There are nine shields in the box. Twenty-one more are needed.
3. The cities north and west of Stavanger that are about to complete their aqueducts need to grow rapidly. Stavanger should feed them workers for many turns. Vadso alone could use four.
4. There are a fair number of units in Spain which still have movement. All the cities were captured this turn except Madrid so pack the troops in to squash the resistance everywhere but there.

Above duly noted

Diplomatic Plans
Spain - obliterate
Celts - gift luxes
Otto - sell gift techs for their freebie (they will pay 32gpt)
Americans - leave backward

Research Plans
Science farms Spain / north home continent
Unis in core
Check what free tech Otto gets before proceding with research - go for Steam unless Otto gets in which case Industrialisation
Most productive city needs a factory then pre build ToE

 

[Andronicus]

Summary

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Hagar_SG009_AD0750_01.SAV

Spain is ours
We have researched Medicine, (got Steam from Otto), Industialisation, Corporation, researching electricity
Have pruned Gandhi back 10 units at cost of 5 zerks (those spears on a hill fight hard with archers getting free shot)
Are RRing primarily around least corrupt cities and high food irrigated tiles - we are short on workers.
Army remains in ex-Spain, we are friends with Celts, but wary
Trading luxes, getting gpt

Currently building Cop in FC - due in a few turns
Need prebuild for ToE - planning on factory first ? Rey

Turn log

Pre flight
Trade Bank to Otto for 31gpt +180g and physics for 1gpt
Gift Metal, ToG & Mag -> Otto gets free Steam , naturallly he wont trade yet
Trade Celts Mag + metal for music theory
Switch research to Medicine
Celts building Cop in Gergovia - useless jungle city -> more useful in FC
Salamanca - 2 ecav d sp 2-0, capture

Um ... zerk, settler and workers on "go to" orders ?
Molde switched to settler rather than duct - need to fill in Spanish gaps or Celts may settle

620AD
3 settlers -> workers, 1 worker -> worker, Vadso duct -> market
Santiago - armies d 3 pikes (last 5/14 army left with 1hp ) 5-0, capture
ezerk & ekn d sp and warr 7-0
Settler (edit - worker) added to Stockholm

630AD
T & WV settler -> settler, Stav worker -> worker, 2 other settlers -> settler
Odense duct -> lib, Fauske duct -> harbour
Settle Thunderfall
Murcia - army d 2sp 9-0, capture - has harbour so now have 9 lux )

640AD
2 settlers -> workers
Gift luxes to Celts (not fur or gems in case of Spanish flip) Go from annoyed to polite.
Valencia - ecav d 2sp 11-0, capture - now own all Spanish mainland
Add worker to Vadso -> size 7

650AD
Medicine, via TBP trade Otto Med, mil trad for steam -> Industrialisation in 5
Can build iron works (in Bodo, Almarikh, Karakorum & Rusicade - all too corrupt) Have plenty on coal
5 workers -> worker, Risor lib -> court, Karasjoh harbour -> uni, Karistad harbour -> duct
Settle spBergen (renamed all towns in ex-Spain with sp prefix) in Spain
Zaragosa - zerks d 2 sp 13-0, capture -> SPAIN gone

660AD
Settler -> worker
Starve Spanish towns hiring scientists, also squeeze some scientists out of many corrupt cities bringing Indust down a turn

670AD
T & WV settler -> settler
1 other settler -> worker, 2 worker -> worker
Rush uni in Rey

680AD
1 settler -> worker
Rey uni -> Newtons (prebuild for factory), Fauske harbour -> court
Settle Haried, New Trondheim, Jungle isle, spNew Bergen, spHagarville
Delhi - 3 zerk d sp, 1 vzerk loses 3-1
Rush uni in Oslo

690AD
Industrialisation -> Corp in 4
Oslo uni -> factory
3 worker -> worker, 1 settler -> worker
Dont give tech to Celts as gpt deal runs out next turn
Settle 4 towns on old world, 3 in new world

700AD
Trade Celts steam for 87gpt + 6 g, Medicine for 13gpt (all they had)
Delhi 2 zerk d sp, 1 *zerk loses sp 5-2
Settle 2 towns

710AD
T & WV settler -> settler
4 workers -> worker
Science back to 90
Domestic adviser message "sleep is for the weak" - how the heck does she know it's 3am here (edit it is now 4.30 am !)

720AD
Farsund & Alesund build worker and are abandoned
Tromso lib -> worker
Delhi - ezerk d sp, ezerk loses sp 6-3
science ->80

730AD
Indian curragh loses to galleon 7-3
Corporation -> Electricity in 6
Cop uni -> factory, spSalamanca worker -> harbour, Batsfjord court -> lib
5 worker -> worker

740AD
1 worker -> worker
Delhi - ezerk d sp 8-3

750AD
T & WV settler -> settler
Stock uni -> factory
4 worker -> worker
Delhi 2 zerk d sp, 2 zerk lose sp 10-5

Its too late for me to make any other useful comments at present

 

[juballs2001]

looks like im up next...

i will take the save and play tommorow...

what exactly do you guys want me focusing on?

 

[juballs2001]

i also had a thought,.....


where would the indian capital be if.....

we let him capture trond. first, then take a few more towns near it.

then we invade delhi and raze it...


this would move ghandis capital to more productive land at trond. and cause less corruption in that city...

or would the people still be upset due to the constant warring with india?

i dunno, just an idea i had

 

[juballs2001]

of course, we cant gift them our capital, but manipulating it somehow that trond. or a more productive site for a capital be made the indian capital, could lead to a faster Spaceship vic for india

 

[Andronicus]

what exactly do you guys want me focusing on?

science - the sooner we reach modern ages the sooner Gandhi is released.

We have 2 settler factories
- T is fairly straight forward - keep 5fpt and 6spt first 2 turns and 7 spt last 2 turns of cycle.
- WV requires more tweaking - I borrowed the lambs from Rey every 4th turn. RRing a mined tile would solve the shield shortage problem (WV lacks access to spare 2 shield tile for growth turns)

Science farms - RRing irrigated grass and plains in corrupt regions (ex-Spain and N of chokes) allows excess food to support scientists. Food bonus tiles (cows, wheat, game etc) give biggest boost, so I was RRing irrigated these first, then irrigated grass.

At same time increasing productive output by RRing mines in non corrupt region - I prioritised FC as it was building a wonder. Perhaps next priority should be Rey if it is to be site for ToE. By RRing some irrigated tiles an excess of food can be created, once up to size 12 can then selectively mine some irrigated tiles to increase production and save food wastage. Also allows increased use of mined mountain tiles (eg 1 mountain S of Rey needs mining) but I recommend attending to grass and plains tiles first.

Normally I would rank linking up with RR network my highest priorty, but with no plans for war at present, I have ignored this other than when it meets the other goals.

Research - currently 2 turns into electricity, suggest sci method next, then replaceable parts. After this need to time in tech research to ideally complete one tech the turn before ToE completes so can switch to learn atomic and electronics (the most expensive IA techs). Other option is to delay to get modern ages techs free, but this risks Celts building it and delays releasing Gandhi. I dont think Celts will help further in IA as likely they will research Nationalism and other optional techs -hopefully they are useful again in modern ages

Settling - I havnt time to do a dot map, but the principle is to ICS preferably using low food tiles to settle on. first priority should be food rich (FP, grassland) areas which will support scientists much quicker than tundra / plains / desert / hills regions.

Avoiding other victory conditions - we are still a way off domination limit (I think Team Klarius is sitting just below), should not be a problem until we take Celtic land and by then we should have lost terrritory to Gandhi. Need to keep an eye on Celts cultural score - I havnt looked but they have built a lot of cultural wonders esp in Entremont.

Roster
Abegweit
IstariAsuka (waiting on computer)
Khan Asparuh
Andronicus - just played
juballs2001 - up
markh - on deck

 

[Abegweit]

To Juballs:

Steady as she goes. Keep filling in our territory with cities. We do not need to take more territory yet. The Celts are still useful although they do need to die soon.

Rizor, Bodo and Molde need ducts. Bodo could benefit from an Iron Works too.

However, the only important thing is science.

@Andronicus: 4+ techs in 14(?) turns. Nice!

 

[Abegweit]

Other option is to delay to get modern ages techs free, but this risks Celts building it and delays releasing Gandhi. I dont think Celts will help further in IA as likely they will research Nationalism and other optional techs -hopefully they are useful again in modern ages

I seriously doubt that the Celts will be useful again except to get optional tech (a world map would be nice). In any case, they can only get ToE if we let them and we are not going to do that. Right

We should be able to do 4-turn research throughout the IE and the wonder should be timed to get Modern Techs. You said earlier that you don't trust Gandhi to research a single tech. I agree. This being so, his conquest of WV should take him straight to the skies.

On another topic, please stop playing games with MG. Every lost attack is more war weariness.

 

[Andronicus]

On another topic, please stop playing games with MG. Every lost attack is more war weariness.

forgot about WW
So far 5 lost attacks -> 10 WW points. WW starts becoming a problem at 30. (edit - plus 2 for Gandhi's unsuccessful attack on our galleon)
I agree that we should hold attacks on Gandhi unless we are able to bombard Delhi first. Unfortunately the only tile with access to Delhi for arty is owned by Gandhi. By time bombers are avail I suspect the benefits of pruning units to enable increasing Gandhi's science will be too late to hasten his release. It will be interesting to see if removing those 10 units does anything to Gandhi's research in the next few turnsets. Unfortunately to be of any value he needs research writing + MM and then build a boat. All this when we should be able to legally release him in 40-50 turns

 

[Andronicus]

@ juballs
forgot to point out plans for current settlers
2 settlers are in position to settle next turn N and W of Ta Tu
2 settlers on way from T & WV to far NE, planned 2N and 2NW (to use wheat) of Falun - also room for 3 more in that northern peninsula
Settler next turn Kazan - intended for 2NE of Kazan to use sheep

Consider future wonders
FC should get Cop - then build uni / factory and ? prebuild for SETI to be super science city
Birka only other real option for Hoover - factory first (doesnt have lib or uni ? build lib first - also no market - needed to grow size12)
Rey ? ToE, other option Stockholm. These 2 could be coordinated so on turn enter MA we build ToE in Rey -> computer and miniturisation (expensive) or if Otto gets computers - fission (trade big picture for computers) and miniturisation, then following turn FC can build SETI and Stockholm Internet for huge boost through MA.
With no free IA tech I guess it will take elect (3 left), sci meth (4), rep parts (5), steel (5), refining (5), combustion (5), mass prod (4), mot transp (4), flight (5), atomic (6), electronics (5) for 51 turns. This may be a bit pessimistic - possibly as little as 47 turns.
(I based these on civ assist's est research costs)
This gives a fair idea for planning these wonders and for preparing Gandhi's release

 

[Andronicus]

On Gandhi's release

Once released we want him to take over the continent but not take our best science cities until we have researched the req techs - and certainly not WV until then.

I suspect however the problem may be more the slowness of Gandhi's expansion, as the AI will want to expand cautiously with what it perceives as enough units to defend what it has already won.

Any ideas on which city to gift and what direction to allow expansion?

Cities falling within the 7.000 tile rule include all 3 mountain ring cities - Hammerfest, Tromslo and Molde plus key cities Trondheim, WV, Birka and Stockholm.
T is out unless we build a capital elsewhere, WV is out as it has a wonder. Birka and Stockholm mean forgoing 42 and 50 science per turn respectively.

My suggestion below is gift Hammerfest and allow expansion along mountain ring, blocking before T and allowing up our west coast, blocking Stockholm, Stav & Faust until we are ready.

 

[juballs2001]

k guys, little update, i had a look at the save , umm, i wont get to play until wednesday and wont post until wednesday night as tuesday is a very busy day for me. if someone maybe wants to take this turn or what not, as i am available to play over christmas when other people possibly arent.
earliest i can post is wednesday night and i will do that.