ThERat
Deity
and next players, beware there are barbs in the fog, don't send out any settler without escorts
SGOTM 9 - klarius
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
TheRat, please install the graphic mod so you see the mediterranean resources.
My city No.1 would pull in a lamb resource for Bergen, you probably don't know that it's there.
Copenhagen is weak currently and by saving a puny BG you wasted a whale which now cannot be worked by any town.
It also doesn't need a temple (don't ever build a temple unless you have a very good reason, we will build libraries at some time) the game will be pulled in by another town (No.4 in my old dotmap, now No.2 will culture link).
Rather let it build a worker to improve it's land, the other workers are needed at Trondheim and Bergen.
We didn't want to research philosophy now, but wanted to make the slingshot to monarchy.
For that we should have bought mysticism, but w/o using writing (maybe would have had to put a few turns of research in it first). Then research polytheism (should have been possible in less than 20 turns) and get monarchy for free.
We will now have to take poly as free tech and then need another around 35 turns to monarchy (and don't anybody tell me something about a min research run, that's a
on monarch difficulty).
With writing in the wild, especially known to an expansionist civ it's now too dangerous to switch, though it would still be faster to monarchy, when giving up the research on philosophy now.
Ok, enough rant
.
We need more contacts
. Somebody should come up with the wheel, which we should then distribute quickly so everybody can work on something useful. Don't sell polytheism when we get it. This would put the AI on 50 turn runs on monarchy. We will sell/gift them monarchy later. But do sell writing so that the AI can work on mapmaking.
An important project for the workers is now to connect and mine the incense. The capital can work at 3-3-4 food and should rather work a 2 commerce roaded incense than an unroaded forest.
Generally we need commerce and food, shields are not as important. But still Trondheim should be improved to its max potential. With enough tiles improved (need 2 plains irrigated) it can build a curragh, a warrior and a settler in 6 turns working size 5-7.
Let the barracks complete now (in two turns by MM to forest now, then back next turn).
And I still would like a granary in Bergen.
Revised near term dotmap:
My city No.1 would pull in a lamb resource for Bergen, you probably don't know that it's there.
Copenhagen is weak currently and by saving a puny BG you wasted a whale which now cannot be worked by any town.
It also doesn't need a temple (don't ever build a temple unless you have a very good reason, we will build libraries at some time) the game will be pulled in by another town (No.4 in my old dotmap, now No.2 will culture link).
Rather let it build a worker to improve it's land, the other workers are needed at Trondheim and Bergen.
We didn't want to research philosophy now, but wanted to make the slingshot to monarchy.
For that we should have bought mysticism, but w/o using writing (maybe would have had to put a few turns of research in it first). Then research polytheism (should have been possible in less than 20 turns) and get monarchy for free.
We will now have to take poly as free tech and then need another around 35 turns to monarchy (and don't anybody tell me something about a min research run, that's a
on monarch difficulty).With writing in the wild, especially known to an expansionist civ it's now too dangerous to switch, though it would still be faster to monarchy, when giving up the research on philosophy now.
Ok, enough rant
. We need more contacts
. Somebody should come up with the wheel, which we should then distribute quickly so everybody can work on something useful. Don't sell polytheism when we get it. This would put the AI on 50 turn runs on monarchy. We will sell/gift them monarchy later. But do sell writing so that the AI can work on mapmaking.An important project for the workers is now to connect and mine the incense. The capital can work at 3-3-4 food and should rather work a 2 commerce roaded incense than an unroaded forest.
Generally we need commerce and food, shields are not as important. But still Trondheim should be improved to its max potential. With enough tiles improved (need 2 plains irrigated) it can build a curragh, a warrior and a settler in 6 turns working size 5-7.
Let the barracks complete now (in two turns by MM to forest now, then back next turn).
And I still would like a granary in Bergen.
Revised near term dotmap:
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Northern Pike
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I'll play the next round.
Northern Pike
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Northern Pike
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2150 (0): Our curragh survives the first turn of its suicide run, but discovers nothing.
2110 (1): We meet the Carthaginians on the silks "island", which turns out to be a peninsula of our continent. Predictably, for monarch, they have nothing to offer.
Our suicide curragh sinks in sight of what looks like an uninhabited island.
Trondheim barracks --> settler.
Bergen worker --> granary.
1950 (5): We get The Wheel from a goodie hut--not the miracle I was hoping for (Polytheism), but still useful. We immediately distribute it around, gaining 22 gold and a Carthaginian worker.
Horses are quite close to us.
Trondheim settler --> warrior.
1910 (6): We sell the Ottomans Writing for 25 gold.
We discover Philosophy, get Polytheism free, and begin work on Monarchy.
1870 (7): I have one of our curraghs reverse course, because they're heading towards each other and we won't want them to be in the same place when the time comes for suicide runs.
We give the Carthaginians Writing, to complete the distribution of that tech.
Trondheim warrior --> settler.
1830 (8): We found Reykjavik in the agreed spot north of the iron.
1790 (9): We get the incense hooked up.
1750 (10): Not much.
2110 (1): We meet the Carthaginians on the silks "island", which turns out to be a peninsula of our continent. Predictably, for monarch, they have nothing to offer.
Our suicide curragh sinks in sight of what looks like an uninhabited island.
Trondheim barracks --> settler.
Bergen worker --> granary.
1950 (5): We get The Wheel from a goodie hut--not the miracle I was hoping for (Polytheism), but still useful. We immediately distribute it around, gaining 22 gold and a Carthaginian worker.
Horses are quite close to us.
Trondheim settler --> warrior.
1910 (6): We sell the Ottomans Writing for 25 gold.
We discover Philosophy, get Polytheism free, and begin work on Monarchy.
1870 (7): I have one of our curraghs reverse course, because they're heading towards each other and we won't want them to be in the same place when the time comes for suicide runs.
We give the Carthaginians Writing, to complete the distribution of that tech.
Trondheim warrior --> settler.
1830 (8): We found Reykjavik in the agreed spot north of the iron.
1790 (9): We get the incense hooked up.
1750 (10): Not much.
Northern Pike
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Our curraghs have discovered most of what they can safely, and it'll soon be time for more suicide runs. There's a patch of sea beyond ocean SW of Leptis Magna which is an obvious first target, though I can't say the shape of the darkness there is too promising.
We should probably use our next settler, due in two turns, to found a city directly south of the nearby horses.
We need to keep a careful eye on Bergen, and micromanage it when the time comes, because right now it's on pace to grow just before completing its granary.
The pop point Trondheim is about to add will make the town unhappy.
Copenhagen is about to complete a curragh because it gained shields too quickly (going to 2 spt when it was hooked up to our road network) for a worker to be an efficient first build. It can build a worker next.
I think the barracks we have going in Reykjavik is a fairly good build, but it can still be changed to anything.
We should probably use our next settler, due in two turns, to found a city directly south of the nearby horses.
We need to keep a careful eye on Bergen, and micromanage it when the time comes, because right now it's on pace to grow just before completing its granary.
The pop point Trondheim is about to add will make the town unhappy.
Copenhagen is about to complete a curragh because it gained shields too quickly (going to 2 spt when it was hooked up to our road network) for a worker to be an efficient first build. It can build a worker next.
I think the barracks we have going in Reykjavik is a fairly good build, but it can still be changed to anything.
Northern Pike
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http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/klarius_SG009_BC1500_01.SAV
pre-flight
- Everything looks fine except for the number of workers. I'll build some out of Trondheim after the settler completes. Move citizen from plains to lake in Trondheim because we'll get shields on growth anyway. Move citizen in Bergen from forest to plains - the extra shield from forest is consumed by corruption and we'll need to much sacrifice to complete the granary before growth to size 3. I would rather build it halfway to size 4. I think aqueducts as the first build in coastal towns is the way to go, but i'll build barracks and curraghs since i don't know when we'll get construction. I send 2 of our warriors to explore in the north a bit so that we can know where to found new cities. With the lux online we have more then enough MP.
1725
- Copenhagen: curragh->curragh.
- Our western curragh start a suicide run.
- Exploring warrior found 2 barbs.
IBT
- The curragh sinks
- The warrior redlines, but kills both barbs and promotes.
1700
- Trondheim completes the settler and i send him to the game. I will build a warrior and 2 workers this round instead of a settler because we are short of workers.
1650
- I destroyed the barb camp near the horses.
1625
- Founded Oslo that steals Gandhi's rock and works the shellfish to help with our research effort. Start a granary there that will be hurried by chopping forest and start an irrigation project to irrigate the game after the chop.
1550
- Start another suicide run and sink again. Bergen completes granary and starts worker. Reykjavic completes barracks and starts warrior.
pre-flight
- Everything looks fine except for the number of workers. I'll build some out of Trondheim after the settler completes. Move citizen from plains to lake in Trondheim because we'll get shields on growth anyway. Move citizen in Bergen from forest to plains - the extra shield from forest is consumed by corruption and we'll need to much sacrifice to complete the granary before growth to size 3. I would rather build it halfway to size 4. I think aqueducts as the first build in coastal towns is the way to go, but i'll build barracks and curraghs since i don't know when we'll get construction. I send 2 of our warriors to explore in the north a bit so that we can know where to found new cities. With the lux online we have more then enough MP.
1725
- Copenhagen: curragh->curragh.
- Our western curragh start a suicide run.
- Exploring warrior found 2 barbs.
IBT
- The curragh sinks
- The warrior redlines, but kills both barbs and promotes.
1700
- Trondheim completes the settler and i send him to the game. I will build a warrior and 2 workers this round instead of a settler because we are short of workers.
1650
- I destroyed the barb camp near the horses.
1625
- Founded Oslo that steals Gandhi's rock and works the shellfish to help with our research effort. Start a granary there that will be hurried by chopping forest and start an irrigation project to irrigate the game after the chop.
1550
- Start another suicide run and sink again. Bergen completes granary and starts worker. Reykjavic completes barracks and starts warrior.
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Northern Pike
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I think we've reached the point at which we have to pick a strategy and stick to it. So far we've had more discussion than definition. If we're going to build the Great Library for the Indians to capture eventually, and the Great Lighthouse so that we can surround Delhi with ships--which would be my choice--we should get started on those pre-builds. I'd begin the Library PB in Oslo, after a curragh to get something out of the forest chop, and the Lighthouse PB in Copenhagen. We may want to merge a worker or two from Bergen into Oslo.
Given the fact that the remaining civs seem to be a long way off across the ocean, and our bad luck so far with suicide runs, the Lighthouse looks like an attractive build for traditional reasons as well.
If we're going to build the Great Library for the Indians to capture eventually, and the Great Lighthouse so that we can surround Delhi with ships--which would be my choice--we should get started on those pre-builds. I'd begin the Library PB in Oslo, after a curragh to get something out of the forest chop, and the Lighthouse PB in Copenhagen. We may want to merge a worker or two from Bergen into Oslo.Given the fact that the remaining civs seem to be a long way off across the ocean, and our bad luck so far with suicide runs, the Lighthouse looks like an attractive build for traditional reasons as well.
The Save
Summary:
Contact with celts and America. Nice tech progress with math and map making.
Preflight:
I do a few changes.
I want Bergen to work at size 4, so it changes to barracks.
I don't see the benefit of the granary in Oslo. This will take too long to complete.
Note we shouldn't cut all the trees now. We may need the production later. We will soon be a monarchy.
Then there is ample food around and the towns will rather need aqueducts together with their harbors than granaries.
I change Oslo to barracks. It can build a few units until it can get a harbour (hopefully soon).
Change Copenhagen to settler - I'm still not sure if we want to keep this city.
I let Trondheim build an archer first. Note if we are size 6 and need 10% lux this will be only one gpt, because only Trondheim will get a happy face from it.
So we break even or even gain by having it at size 6.
Gift IW and myst to Carthage. No use them working on known techs.
Hit enter.
Turn 1 1475:
Trondheim archer->curragh. Archer goes hunting.
Suicide run west.
IBT:
curragh sinks. Ugly one wants philosophy. Tell him to stick it and he backs down.
Turn 2 1450:
Bergen barracks-worker
Reykjavik warrior-warrior
Turn 3 1425:
Trondheim curragh-settler.
Kill a barb which disturbed our workers and a barb camp near Carthage.
suicide run east.
Mongols and Ottomans have philosophy and math. Don't trade currently, to give them a chance to go for construction.
Barb horses are around. Be careful now.
Turn 4 1400:
Oslo barracks - warrior
Bergen worker-settler
Turn 5 1375:
Suicide run east finds land
Turn 6 1350:
We see a green border.
IBT:
Carthage and Mongols start Oracle
Turn 7 1325:
Meet celts. Sell them alphabet for 100g. Build an embassy. Entremont is a real powerhouse, building the pyramids to finish in 8 turns.
I want to have the city at some time. Could be a future capital.
Turn 8 1300:
Our curragh sees a light blue border.
Celts have traded and have now gold. Sell them writing for 135g.
Turn 9 1275:
Map making around. Pull now the poly trade with Mongols. Gift map making and math to the celts. With their pyramids soon they might be the best researcher.
Turn 10 1250:
Meet America. They have only 3 cities. Sell them math for 60g. Probably no use gifting them.
Make embassy. Only one spear in size 2 Washington.
There is something fishy. They are at war with India, but should have no chance to know them.
Gyathaar must have put them to war in the beginning.
A few notes:
Didn't start any prebuilds. I think we can wait for monarchy and then assess again what to build where. Especially for the library there is ample time, we don't really need it for ourselves.
In monarchy we will have two possible 4-turn factories so don't get nervous that we didn't grow like cancer up to now.
Trondheim should be micromanaged next turn from incense to lake. You can even give up an irrigated plains for a second lake tile, because growth will get 3 sh (1 from the BG in the city center).
Then maybe build an one turn worker (working forest and incense) so we aren't to big in the anarchy to come soon.
There is a worker on the game. It should not cut the trees, but road the tile. We need the production and food will be abundant in monarchy.
I would like settlers towards the dyes and ivory soon.
Next research after monarchy should be literature.
A devious idea: America will not help anyway. Maybe try the city gift and retake trick next turn with them.
That could get us an easy toe-hold on the other continent.
I would recommend Copenhagen for that. I don't like the city anyways.
Summary:
Contact with celts and America. Nice tech progress with math and map making.
Preflight:
I do a few
changes. I want Bergen to work at size 4, so it changes to barracks.
I don't see the benefit of the granary in Oslo. This will take too long to complete.
Note we shouldn't cut all the trees now. We may need the production later. We will soon be a monarchy.
Then there is ample food around and the towns will rather need aqueducts together with their harbors than granaries.
I change Oslo to barracks. It can build a few units until it can get a harbour (hopefully soon).
Change Copenhagen to settler - I'm still not sure if we want to keep this city.
I let Trondheim build an archer first. Note if we are size 6 and need 10% lux this will be only one gpt, because only Trondheim will get a happy face from it.
So we break even or even gain by having it at size 6.
Gift IW and myst to Carthage. No use them working on known techs.
Hit enter.
Turn 1 1475:
Trondheim archer->curragh. Archer goes hunting.
Suicide run west.
IBT:
curragh sinks. Ugly one wants philosophy. Tell him to stick it and he backs down.
Turn 2 1450:
Bergen barracks-worker
Reykjavik warrior-warrior
Turn 3 1425:
Trondheim curragh-settler.
Kill a barb which disturbed our workers and a barb camp near Carthage.
suicide run east.
Mongols and Ottomans have philosophy and math. Don't trade currently, to give them a chance to go for construction.
Barb horses are around. Be careful now.
Turn 4 1400:
Oslo barracks - warrior
Bergen worker-settler
Turn 5 1375:
Suicide run east finds land
Turn 6 1350:
We see a green border.
IBT:
Carthage and Mongols start Oracle
Turn 7 1325:
Meet celts. Sell them alphabet for 100g. Build an embassy. Entremont is a real powerhouse, building the pyramids to finish in 8 turns.
I want to have the city at some time. Could be a future capital.
Turn 8 1300:
Our curragh sees a light blue border.
Celts have traded and have now gold. Sell them writing for 135g.
Turn 9 1275:
Map making around. Pull now the poly trade with Mongols. Gift map making and math to the celts. With their pyramids soon they might be the best researcher.
Turn 10 1250:
Meet America. They have only 3 cities. Sell them math for 60g. Probably no use gifting them.
Make embassy. Only one spear in size 2 Washington.
There is something fishy. They are at war with India, but should have no chance to know them.
Gyathaar must have put them to war in the beginning.
A few notes:
Didn't start any prebuilds. I think we can wait for monarchy and then assess again what to build where. Especially for the library there is ample time, we don't really need it for ourselves.
In monarchy we will have two possible 4-turn factories so don't get nervous that we didn't grow like cancer up to now.
Trondheim should be micromanaged next turn from incense to lake. You can even give up an irrigated plains for a second lake tile, because growth will get 3 sh (1 from the BG in the city center).
Then maybe build an one turn worker (working forest and incense) so we aren't to big in the anarchy to come soon.
There is a worker on the game. It should not cut the trees, but road the tile. We need the production and food will be abundant in monarchy.
I would like settlers towards the dyes and ivory soon.
Next research after monarchy should be literature.
A devious idea: America will not help anyway. Maybe try the city gift and retake trick next turn with them.
That could get us an easy toe-hold on the other continent.
I would recommend Copenhagen for that. I don't like the city anyways.
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Doh.. it seems I did. By accident thou.. I must have though you were still playing america from sgotm8 when i set it upklarius said:
Should be the same in all C3C games thou.. that explains why I had to manually declare on india when I made save
Sorry about that.
Northern Pike
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klarius said:
If you think we can wait on the Library, all right. But with Map Making in general circulation, there's a limit to how casual we can be about the Lighthouse, and I'd switch Reykjavik to a pre-build now. This strategy is a seamless garment--if we have the Library but not the Lighthouse we won't have much, and our having selected Monarchy over Republic will become an error.
I like the idea of getting a foothold on the other continent with a gift-and-retake, though we'll probably have to give away more than one city.
klarius said:
Fair enough, but this implies that when we're in monarchy we have to be absolutely firm about setting up and running Trondheim and Bergen as four-turn settler factories--no distractions, and no short-term reasons found for doing something else.
Reykjavik on Lighthouse is fine. It will just not help much until its tiles are prepared and it is size 6. Especially the iron mountain has to be mined.
I always let it share the lambs when possible and this should continue.
But if celts decide to build the Lighthouse in Entremont it's too late already.
Note also we need still some cheap MP for monarchy. At least Trondheim,Bergen and Reykjavik will want 3 MP until we get another lux.
I don't think Trondheim and Bergen will want to perform settler factory duty for long, but we could
. Maybe 2 or 3 settlers from both of them, then get the libraries up.
Cities locked to size 6 can take over then.
I always let it share the lambs when possible and this should continue.
But if celts decide to build the Lighthouse in Entremont it's too late already.
Note also we need still some cheap MP for monarchy. At least Trondheim,Bergen and Reykjavik will want 3 MP until we get another lux.
I don't think Trondheim and Bergen will want to perform settler factory duty for long, but we could
. Maybe 2 or 3 settlers from both of them, then get the libraries up. Cities locked to size 6 can take over then.
Northern Pike
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klarius said:
If that happens we'll have to take Entremont--which for all the difficulty involved might be cheaper in shields.
Here's a question, though--if a ship moves into a dangerous tile and just fortifies there, does the program make its sinking check every turn? We should know this, not just assume it. (Edit: No, this trick doesn't work. We still need the Lighthouse.)
I really would like to have Entremont some time. And a leader available. With FP it should easily work as 4-turn combo factory making a horse and a settler in 4 turns.
Never had such a thing, want have
.
EDIT:
Doing a few calculations, there should be even a 2-turn settler factory possible.
I really would like to see this in action.
Never had such a thing, want have
.EDIT:
Doing a few calculations, there should be even a 2-turn settler factory possible.
I really would like to see this in action.
killercane
Deity
Got it. Our pace is lightning quick, we might want to slow down and think about this. I just feel we dont have as cohesive a plan as we should, with miscommunication on monarchy and everything. I think we are going to be fine.
Sit Rep:
Indians visibly lack Writing, Math, and Poly.
Pyramids by Celts in 5 turns. They will initiate their GA at that time. I believe the Lighthouse is as good as lost then. They dont have an Oracle or a MoM build going. Mongols and Karakorum are size 2 and 4 turns into their Oracle build. Carthage is size 1 and building the Oracle. I think the Celts will sweep all the wonders if we let them. We'll see what they do at the end of my turns.
Im not big on the gift and retake until we get chariots hooked up and available. Should be done towards the end of my turns. America has 2 cities other than Washington.
Settlers should be escorted north with barb horses around.
Ill be sending the available settler with escort 1 south of the dyes.
Sit Rep:
Indians visibly lack Writing, Math, and Poly.
Pyramids by Celts in 5 turns. They will initiate their GA at that time. I believe the Lighthouse is as good as lost then. They dont have an Oracle or a MoM build going. Mongols and Karakorum are size 2 and 4 turns into their Oracle build. Carthage is size 1 and building the Oracle. I think the Celts will sweep all the wonders if we let them. We'll see what they do at the end of my turns.
Im not big on the gift and retake until we get chariots hooked up and available. Should be done towards the end of my turns. America has 2 cities other than Washington.
Settlers should be escorted north with barb horses around.
Ill be sending the available settler with escort 1 south of the dyes.
If the continents are so far apart we can just gift Literature to the civs on our continent. That will ensure that the GL will be built on it. As for the lighthouse, i don't really think it will complete in Reykyavic much faster then we reach astronomy, and using Bergen for building wonders is a terrible waste. That will leave us with only one town that can grow quickly instead of possible 3. Of course in monarchy we should irrigate those grasslands and get +5 food in towns with fresh water or aqueduct already built, but i would really like to keep a 4-turn settler factory and a 2-turn worker factory running for quite some time + cash-rush settlers and workers out of other towns. Fast research is not achieved by libs everywhere, but by fast growth and all tiles being roaded. And in monarchy since the base commerce is lower the effect of libs is lower too. So conqest and using specialists might be more cost effective then creating a super research core. Even in republic in the end game about half of research comes from scientists. Another concern is that indians are not so far behind and if we want them to slow down we better start building ships to block all those tiles around Delhi. That would leave them with 5 whales unitll astronomy.
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