Definitely monarchy was a mistake, but i am not sure if going through another anarchy is worth it now. Soon a large part of our beakers will come from the science farms and we need money to set them up by rushing/building settlers and workers, so even if we won't be researching techs and just waiting for the AI, we need production. According to CA2 revolt will take our beakers per turn from 320 to 480. I will not play now, but wait for comments since such an important decision requires more votes.
SGOTM 9 - klarius
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Northern Pike
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Megalou said:
Hey, friends! I've skimmed through your effort and it looks really great.
Good to hear from you, Megalou.
I trust you'll have more time to play soon. Going by North American stereotype, the Swedish school year falls on a Wednesday in 2005, doesn't it? 
Northern Pike
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Monarchy was an error all right, and I like the boldness of Killer's proposal...but ultimately I agree with Klarius and Obormot that we have to live with our mistake. (This is known as married man's logic. ) We'd really be talking about two anarchies if we went to republic now, since we'd have to switch back to a WW-free government at some point in the future; and attacking Delhi to bring down India's unit costs would become difficult. The period in which we clearly should have been in republic is just ending, I'm afraid. 
) We'd really be talking about two anarchies if we went to republic now, since we'd have to switch back to a WW-free government at some point in the future; and attacking Delhi to bring down India's unit costs would become difficult. The period in which we clearly should have been in republic is just ending, I'm afraid. 
killercane
Deity
To state it another way:
27 techs to discover (including hospitals w/o factoring in Otto free techs or ToE, and factoring in getting Rep Parts from Spain. Ideally this would be 23 techs w/o espionage and such.
We're at over 300 science now, Rep will take us to 420 or so if we get a 40% boost to science, or to 400 at a 30% boost (using my hodgepodge math, CA 2 says we'll be better off than that and able to 4 turn ToG and Mag). That will save us at least an immediate turn on ToG and Magnetism, and perhaps all 4 turns we would have to expend in monarchy (6 turn techs vs. 4 turn techs. 2-4 turns saved immediately. We can save 2 turns off Steam Power at the least. Thats 4-6 of those anarchy turns accounted for within 3 techs. If that allows us to save at least one turn on the other techs, we should break even within 5 or 6 techs if we have max anarchy. Everything else after that is a positive return.
We can delicately trim India anytime we want with little risk in rep with berserks. Im unsure on the second anarchy, and if we do another one it will be at a time when we wont need production or science, ie end of game and waiting since we want them to have everything up through robotics.
30+ city sites to be settled in Celtia. It Will take 60 turns to get those settled w/o factoring in worker turns and growth. I dont think we'll ever get to 4 turn research in monarchy, whereas we have a good shot in Republic.
27 techs to discover (including hospitals w/o factoring in Otto free techs or ToE, and factoring in getting Rep Parts from Spain. Ideally this would be 23 techs w/o espionage and such.
We're at over 300 science now, Rep will take us to 420 or so if we get a 40% boost to science, or to 400 at a 30% boost (using my hodgepodge math, CA 2 says we'll be better off than that and able to 4 turn ToG and Mag). That will save us at least an immediate turn on ToG and Magnetism, and perhaps all 4 turns we would have to expend in monarchy (6 turn techs vs. 4 turn techs. 2-4 turns saved immediately. We can save 2 turns off Steam Power at the least. Thats 4-6 of those anarchy turns accounted for within 3 techs. If that allows us to save at least one turn on the other techs, we should break even within 5 or 6 techs if we have max anarchy. Everything else after that is a positive return.
We can delicately trim India anytime we want with little risk in rep with berserks. Im unsure on the second anarchy, and if we do another one it will be at a time when we wont need production or science, ie end of game and waiting since we want them to have everything up through robotics.
30+ city sites to be settled in Celtia. It Will take 60 turns to get those settled w/o factoring in worker turns and growth. I dont think we'll ever get to 4 turn research in monarchy, whereas we have a good shot in Republic.
Problem is, we need the science camps even in republic. A set back in settling them now will cost us later. It's not just the anarchy turns versus saved research turns to consider.
IMO the problem is not the government, but that we are overall late in development.
Republic is better than monarchy, but the effect is by far not as big as people think.
In C3C you need to get a lot of science from scientists no matter what government, if you want to be fast.
If I can get to 4-turn research with republic on deity (and I did in mid IA more than once, with lots of scientists), I don't see why it should be a problem in monarchy on monarch.
IMO the problem is not the government, but that we are overall late in development.
Republic is better than monarchy, but the effect is by far not as big as people think.
In C3C you need to get a lot of science from scientists no matter what government, if you want to be fast.
If I can get to 4-turn research with republic on deity (and I did in mid IA more than once, with lots of scientists), I don't see why it should be a problem in monarchy on monarch.
Thursday 22 Dec. Yes, but I will skip COTM19. Not because of the sid level as evil tongues may have it, but becuse of RL. In fact I'm thinking of putting most my games in a box and give them away. Sometimes...Northern Pike said:Good to hear from you, Megalou.
A few more observations about our game:
Well, the klariusplan idiocy with India did cost us even more than I thought. Our trade reputation is shot, because the gifting broke our lux deal with Carthage.
Please give Svolvaer a specialist and give it up for a worker IBT. It's not worth the increased corruption to let it stay any longer.
Bodo will riot. You can give it a MP from Reykjavic. I would also give it the mined iron, until it's market finishes.
Again, Courthouses in the rim cities first. They will give around 3 beakers for 80sh currently compared to about 5 beakers for 200sh for the university.
I still don't see a reason for troops at the Mongol border. A war with Mongols just generates a lot more worker jobs. If we do something on our continent it should be Carthage. We need Carthage city anyway to give it to India. And we should not wait until shortly before that, so we can get it a bit infrastructure. We cannot see it, but I assume there are connecting roads and at least Rusicade already connects to our capital.
Small problem is that our trade routes to Mongols and Ottos are going through Carthage, if I didn't overlook something.
So an alliance will lose the lux trades there also.
There is also another war to come up at some time. That's America. They are doing too good now against the Celts.
That's not urgent just a thing to keep in mind.
And one more point about republic. Don't forget the upkeep for the workers we should build like crazy. We currently have only 35. It should be over 100. We will not reach that anytime soon, but when rails come in even the big cities should spawn a few workers. A few rails on irrigation can regrow the population fast.
Well, the klarius
Please give Svolvaer a specialist and give it up for a worker IBT. It's not worth the increased corruption to let it stay any longer.
Bodo will riot. You can give it a MP from Reykjavic. I would also give it the mined iron, until it's market finishes.
Again, Courthouses in the rim cities first. They will give around 3 beakers for 80sh currently compared to about 5 beakers for 200sh for the university.
I still don't see a reason for troops at the Mongol border. A war with Mongols just generates a lot more worker jobs. If we do something on our continent it should be Carthage. We need Carthage city anyway to give it to India. And we should not wait until shortly before that, so we can get it a bit infrastructure. We cannot see it, but I assume there are connecting roads and at least Rusicade already connects to our capital.
Small problem is that our trade routes to Mongols and Ottos are going through Carthage, if I didn't overlook something.
So an alliance will lose the lux trades there also.
There is also another war to come up at some time. That's America. They are doing too good now against the Celts.
That's not urgent just a thing to keep in mind.
And one more point about republic. Don't forget the upkeep for the workers we should build like crazy. We currently have only 35. It should be over 100. We will not reach that anytime soon, but when rails come in even the big cities should spawn a few workers. A few rails on irrigation can regrow the population fast.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/klarius_SG009_AD0650_01.SAV
pre-flight:
- Sell Education and Astronomy to mongols for 14 gold.
- MM cities for faster growth where happiness allows, it is better to grow to size12 first, then build infra. Change taxmen to scientists. Switch Karasjok and Alesund to settlers, they are too corruopt to benefit from a markets/aqueducts. Switch Tromso to courthouse. Scientist hired in the temporary city to disband it next turn.
- Decided that since our reputation is gone already, it is time to do evil things. Sign peace with celts for 2 island towns with the intention to redeclare immidiately. Move some reinforcements to Burdigala.
560AD
- Spain learnt Navigation. Next turn we'll be able to trade it for physics and connect the luxuries. Rush harbour in one of the science farms.
- Carthagians land a settler pair in Celtia. There is nothing i can do to stop them.
- Move our units out of celtic borders to preserve RoP reputation and redeclare. Move units to attack Burdigala, Agedincum and New York next turn.
- MM to minimize beaker overrun.
- Start transporting workers to Celtia via the ship chain. Upgrade some galleys to caravells.
570AD
- Celts capture our settler. Sorry, i was a little careless.
- Trade Physics for Navigation, some gold and furs. Now we have 8 luxes
- Distribute Navigation to everybody. Don't sell physycs just yet, trying to setup somebody of the lesser AIs for Metallurgy/Banking while Spain should go for Magnetism.
- We capture Agedincum, Burdigala and New York without losses. Celts moved the spears teleported from island towns out of their capital in the IBT before attack They are down to 2 cities.
- Notice we are now at war with America. Our peace treaty ended when i made peace with the selts. Those complicated plans don't work so well when there are so many people playing. Anyway our rep is already gone and we don't need war happiness with all those luxes.
- ToG will be researched next and it takes 5 turns.
- New York has the Colossus and it can be used to trigger spanish GA, since they already have the Oracle. I think that the timing is great., so i gift New York to Izabella. (I don't want to waste money on espionage to know when she completes her wonders and the city is useless, it is in the desert, has some goats, but this is no better then a usual grass tile). I just estabilish embassy to sign RoP to let our troops move. SC is due in 18 turns in Madrid, but she is also building KT and Copernicus'. She has 3 clowns in Madrid, so i gift her some luxes.
580AD
- All our cities with a market are now on WLKTD
- Trondheim finished university and starts a berserker.
590AD
- Carthagians complete Copernicus'. Everybody cascades to Magellan's.
600AD
- Move forces to attack Augustodurum next turn. In the south our stack is attacked by 3 american MDIs. Pike is damaged and we loose 2 MDIs.
610AD
- A wonder cascade kills off all wonders except Magellan's. Spain doesn't gaet anything OK, let's hope Izabella will be first to Magellan's.
- Despite our losses last turn we have enough troops to attack Washington. We take the city without losses, it was defended by a single pike.
620AD
- ToG is discovered, research turned off.
630AD
- We capture Tolosa and Celts are destroyed.
- Rush lots of workers and settlers with the saved money.
- Izabella now knows Banking. I don't trade because that will leave us without monopoly techs and with reputation destroyed we won't be able to buy other techs.
640AD
- Rushing workers&settlers. Move units.
650AD
- Our stack is ready to capture Boston next turn.
- Something went wrong, Spain agreed for a ToG for Banking deal and she doesn't agree for it. Propably she went the wrong way and started researching ToG. This ToG/Magnetism thing is cursed for me, happened to twice in XOTMs before, and both times it hurt. I suggest we trade now throwing in some gold and then self-research Magnetism (possible in 5 turns, maybe even 4 if we play with scientists). Hopefully someone comes up with Metallurgy. I think we should launch our GA as soon as we enter IA.
pre-flight:
- Sell Education and Astronomy to mongols for 14 gold.
- MM cities for faster growth where happiness allows, it is better to grow to size12 first, then build infra. Change taxmen to scientists. Switch Karasjok and Alesund to settlers, they are too corruopt to benefit from a markets/aqueducts. Switch Tromso to courthouse. Scientist hired in the temporary city to disband it next turn.
- Decided that since our reputation is gone already, it is time to do evil things. Sign peace with celts for 2 island towns with the intention to redeclare immidiately. Move some reinforcements to Burdigala.
560AD
- Spain learnt Navigation. Next turn we'll be able to trade it for physics and connect the luxuries. Rush harbour in one of the science farms.
- Carthagians land a settler pair in Celtia. There is nothing i can do to stop them.
- Move our units out of celtic borders to preserve RoP reputation and redeclare. Move units to attack Burdigala, Agedincum and New York next turn.
- MM to minimize beaker overrun.
- Start transporting workers to Celtia via the ship chain. Upgrade some galleys to caravells.
570AD
- Celts capture our settler. Sorry, i was a little careless.
- Trade Physics for Navigation, some gold and furs. Now we have 8 luxes
- Distribute Navigation to everybody. Don't sell physycs just yet, trying to setup somebody of the lesser AIs for Metallurgy/Banking while Spain should go for Magnetism.
- We capture Agedincum, Burdigala and New York without losses. Celts moved the spears teleported from island towns out of their capital in the IBT before attack
They are down to 2 cities.- Notice we are now at war with America. Our peace treaty ended when i made peace with the selts. Those complicated plans don't work so well when there are so many people playing. Anyway our rep is already gone and we don't need war happiness with all those luxes.
- ToG will be researched next and it takes 5 turns.
- New York has the Colossus and it can be used to trigger spanish GA, since they already have the Oracle. I think that the timing is great., so i gift New York to Izabella. (I don't want to waste money on espionage to know when she completes her wonders and the city is useless, it is in the desert, has some goats, but this is no better then a usual grass tile). I just estabilish embassy to sign RoP to let our troops move. SC is due in 18 turns in Madrid, but she is also building KT and Copernicus'. She has 3 clowns in Madrid, so i gift her some luxes.
580AD
- All our cities with a market are now on WLKTD
- Trondheim finished university and starts a berserker.
590AD
- Carthagians complete Copernicus'. Everybody cascades to Magellan's.
600AD
- Move forces to attack Augustodurum next turn. In the south our stack is attacked by 3 american MDIs. Pike is damaged and we loose 2 MDIs.
610AD
- A wonder cascade kills off all wonders except Magellan's. Spain doesn't gaet anything
OK, let's hope Izabella will be first to Magellan's.- Despite our losses last turn we have enough troops to attack Washington. We take the city without losses, it was defended by a single pike.
620AD
- ToG is discovered, research turned off.
630AD
- We capture Tolosa and Celts are destroyed.
- Rush lots of workers and settlers with the saved money.
- Izabella now knows Banking. I don't trade because that will leave us without monopoly techs and with reputation destroyed we won't be able to buy other techs.
640AD
- Rushing workers&settlers. Move units.
650AD
- Our stack is ready to capture Boston next turn.
- Something went wrong, Spain agreed for a ToG for Banking deal and she doesn't agree for it. Propably she went the wrong way and started researching ToG
. This ToG/Magnetism thing is cursed for me, happened to twice in XOTMs before, and both times it hurt. I suggest we trade now throwing in some gold and then self-research Magnetism (possible in 5 turns, maybe even 4 if we play with scientists). Hopefully someone comes up with Metallurgy. I think we should launch our GA as soon as we enter IA.
killercane
Deity
Looks good.
Honingsvag is using a taxman when it can work an irrigated plains for growth in 1 and share the deer then, the settler is already waiting to be built.
What are our plans for America. I dont think we need them. They will give San Francisco and Seattle for peace, since we are dastardly now. If we want to attack Carthage then that city they snuck in will need to be razed it looks like.
Honingsvag is using a taxman when it can work an irrigated plains for growth in 1 and share the deer then, the settler is already waiting to be built.
What are our plans for America. I dont think we need them. They will give San Francisco and Seattle for peace, since we are dastardly now. If we want to attack Carthage then that city they snuck in will need to be razed it looks like.
Northern Pike
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Nice progress on the nerd camps. 
We need the Americans, and their locked war with India, very badly, so that we can gift them cities to lose to the Indians when the time comes. We haven't given enough respect to the potentially game-wrecking problem of resistance in cities turned over to India, and AFAIK this is our only way around it. We should probably keep the Americans at exactly two cities, for safety combined with slow culture growth on their part.
killercane said:
We need the Americans, and their locked war with India, very badly, so that we can gift them cities to lose to the Indians when the time comes. We haven't given enough respect to the potentially game-wrecking problem of resistance in cities turned over to India, and AFAIK this is our only way around it. We should probably keep the Americans at exactly two cities, for safety combined with slow culture growth on their part.
Just returning from the weekend, I got but will not play today.
Looks like nice progress .
Still there are some points, I don't like.
Our reputation was only broken by a trade towards Carthage. We still had the chance to do any gpt trade with somebody allied with us against them. And the peace treaty with celts for two fishing villages wasn't really worth a lot.
It's probably not a big deal, but I never like to pay cash to the AIs. They just blow it on nonsense (they love to rush unnecessary things) and then it's out of the game.
I don't like the Spain gifting. Spain is a PITA to have on the same landmass. A conquistadores sneak attack can cost a lot undefended cities (and I don't intend to defend science camps).
In the beginning everybody thought monarch AI cannot be a help in research, now we try to squeeze even magnetism out of them
, a tech which I think would be even difficult to get from deity AI (there's ToG with a wonder, Music Theory with a wonder, not required, but dirt cheap, metallurgy still not researched). That's pretty bold
Ok, we will do magnets now and hope somebody started metal back when it became available. Could work out still very good with metal available just around when we research magnets.
I intend to prepare and probably also start a war, which is long overdue, IMO. That's Carthage.
This can get pretty tricky, with them having all resources and a ton of ancient cavalry. But I also don't see it getting better any time soon. And for sure I don't want to wait until we can roll with tanks through their land.
I will cut back Americans, but that's not really urgent and shouldn't be a big problem. There are more units down there than needed for the job.
A question is, if we should get Entremont off settler duty now and try for Newtons (risky because the cascade didn't break). Entremont is the city with the highest commerce potential overall in our empire and the only one with a decent chance to build it (besides Trondheim, but there we then really risk a 350sh knight).
Looks like nice progress
.Still there are some points, I don't like.
Our reputation was only broken by a trade towards Carthage. We still had the chance to do any gpt trade with somebody allied with us against them. And the peace treaty with celts for two fishing villages wasn't really worth a lot.
It's probably not a big deal, but I never like to pay cash to the AIs. They just blow it on nonsense (they love to rush unnecessary things) and then it's out of the game.
I don't like the Spain gifting. Spain is a PITA to have on the same landmass. A conquistadores sneak attack can cost a lot undefended cities (and I don't intend to defend science camps).
In the beginning everybody thought monarch AI cannot be a help in research, now we try to squeeze even magnetism out of them
, a tech which I think would be even difficult to get from deity AI (there's ToG with a wonder, Music Theory with a wonder, not required, but dirt cheap, metallurgy still not researched). That's pretty bold Ok, we will do magnets now and hope somebody started metal back when it became available. Could work out still very good with metal available just around when we research magnets.
I intend to prepare and probably also start a war, which is long overdue, IMO. That's Carthage.
This can get pretty tricky, with them having all resources and a ton of ancient cavalry. But I also don't see it getting better any time soon. And for sure I don't want to wait until we can roll with tanks through their land.
I will cut back Americans, but that's not really urgent and shouldn't be a big problem. There are more units down there than needed for the job.
A question is, if we should get Entremont off settler duty now and try for Newtons (risky because the cascade didn't break). Entremont is the city with the highest commerce potential overall in our empire and the only one with a decent chance to build it (besides Trondheim, but there we then really risk a 350sh knight).
This is a very important question. I actually forgot about resistance and this issue is very important. Finding a way to gift the cities without resistance can save more then a few turns. If i understand it correctly now the plan is to gift cities to America and then let indians capture them. Well, it is better then just letting indians capture our cities, but still resistance time will be huge since indians won't have enough units to quell the resistance fast enough. I think we should find a way to convert the population to neutral foreigners so that there will be no resistance at all. IIRC after gifting a city all citizens change their nationality, so we may gift the city to a neutral civ, then capture it and then allow Gandhi take it. I'm not sure if it works, if it doesn't then we should drain the population by rushing settlres and then join neutral slaves.
A war with carthage sounds good, we can transport some of our troops in celtia back home. I don't think we really need Newton's, i would rather have 15 settlers, so i would not build it in Entremont espesially since we plan to resume research from noe on and cash-rushing will be limited. Building in Trondheim may be better, but the risk is also higher and the benefit less.
Obormot, the problem 
, is the upcoming golden age. I just hate to waste about 10sh/turn in Entremont then by still building settlers.
Its also not a question of 15 settlers. We cannot build settlers faster than every 2 turns, because of food.
But we should easily reach around 30sh/turn in GA at slightly bigger size then now.
, is the upcoming golden age. I just hate to waste about 10sh/turn in Entremont then by still building settlers.Its also not a question of 15 settlers. We cannot build settlers faster than every 2 turns, because of food.
But we should easily reach around 30sh/turn in GA at slightly bigger size then now.
Northern Pike
Deity
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Obormot said:
You're right, except that a sequence of events in which a city changed hands by violence twice would devastate its improvements. I assume we care a lot about making sure that the Indians get as many factories as possible, and Hoover. I certainly like the idea of merging neutral slaves in, but it probably won't be a total solution. So I think we definitely still need the Americans and the option they represent.
Klarius, I vote yes on Newton in Entremont. And starting the war with Carthage sounds fine.
ThERat
Deity
We are doing very well for our parts of the game. However, for me the biggest challenge is India. What are they doing and will they ever get out of that place? If they need 50 turns for MM, they might be at their unit limit and that could mean they wouldn't have the money to send over a settler convoy. We need to take out a few units there, a pity we can't see what they have inside the city.
We need to make sure that they actually get over to the GL city before they know education. So, IMHO, we should slowly get them to make their way towards that city by letting them take one city after another on the way, but retaking the others. This way we can make sure the Indian city will never flip since it's the capital. we don't need India to have any sort of capability until after the GL capture. Hopefully by then we have research all techs for them and gifted them to America (that's why I would keep them around). Then we can only hope that India actually builds those space parts. And we should make sure that we build the Un on the Celtish continent so that India doesn't get the wrong idea.
We need to make sure that they actually get over to the GL city before they know education. So, IMHO, we should slowly get them to make their way towards that city by letting them take one city after another on the way, but retaking the others. This way we can make sure the Indian city will never flip since it's the capital. we don't need India to have any sort of capability until after the GL capture. Hopefully by then we have research all techs for them and gifted them to America (that's why I would keep them around). Then we can only hope that India actually builds those space parts. And we should make sure that we build the Un on the Celtish continent so that India doesn't get the wrong idea.
The process of handing over towns to India will be difficult and take quite some time. I think there will not be the same solution for every city.
Note, partial resistance for some time may not be that bad.
If they get the cities w/o resistance they will starve with a lot of clowns, because they will not have enough luxes initially.
So for the first cities they get, maybe half neutral/half our resisting population may be a good compromise.
And BTW, we have to watch it how it develops, but if possible the growth of the Indian empire should not start with Carthage, but with some other cities so they can build some cheap units first. That will be quite difficult to time.
Another problem is pop-rushing. They will probably revolt to communism as soon as they get it from TGL.
Note again to everybody: if we can make it, we want to keep fascism out of their hands, so never buy it.
As a near term measure to prepare, we shouldn't starve any Carthage cities we get. We can skim of some slaves, to make flip risk more bearable, but the goal should rather be to eliminate Carthage completely, so we can keep the pop for the time when India is ready.
The same applies then to Mongols and Ottomans when their time comes (much later for Ottomans).
EDIT:
And I still see it as the best, to have one backwards civ at war with India (America) and Spain as advanced civ at peace with India at the time we pull the trigger of TGL. One at peace is necessary so they can trade for luxes and resources. America is just there for the flexibility with the city hand-over. The rest can be gone by then meaning we will have a lot neutral (because dead civ) population and slaves available to configure cities how we think best.
Note, partial resistance for some time may not be that bad.
If they get the cities w/o resistance they will starve with a lot of clowns, because they will not have enough luxes initially.
So for the first cities they get, maybe half neutral/half our resisting population may be a good compromise.
And BTW, we have to watch it how it develops, but if possible the growth of the Indian empire should not start with Carthage, but with some other cities so they can build some cheap units first. That will be quite difficult to time.
Another problem is pop-rushing. They will probably revolt to communism as soon as they get it from TGL.
Note again to everybody: if we can make it, we want to keep fascism out of their hands, so never buy it.
As a near term measure to prepare, we shouldn't starve any Carthage cities we get. We can skim of some slaves, to make flip risk more bearable, but the goal should rather be to eliminate Carthage completely, so we can keep the pop for the time when India is ready.
The same applies then to Mongols and Ottomans when their time comes (much later for Ottomans).
EDIT:
And I still see it as the best, to have one backwards civ at war with India (America) and Spain as advanced civ at peace with India at the time we pull the trigger of TGL. One at peace is necessary so they can trade for luxes and resources. America is just there for the flexibility with the city hand-over. The rest can be gone by then meaning we will have a lot neutral (because dead civ) population and slaves available to configure cities how we think best.
killercane
Deity
Ive been thinking about that problem. If we eliminate Osman at the beginning of Modern, the Americans will never get Nationalism in time to hand it over to India, let alone Communism. So if we cripple/eliminate the Mongols, Carthage, and America, and kill Osman then, they should not have anything to revolt to. We need to never trade for those governments.
Entremont is fine for Newtons. Its not as good of a return on investment as settlers, but it can build it and a uni exceptionally quick and then one turn settlers until its back to size for post GA settler duty.
In the late game when we are stopping Spain from building their space ship, or whatever, we can raise all their cities/metros (except 1 or 2
) for those neutral slaves. With Celtics slaves, Spanish slaves, and slaves from the others surely we would have quite a few to put into those core cities that the Indians need so badly. The problem is the timing of such an operation and eliminating our pop in due time. I dont know how thats going to work.It will take India the longest to quell resistance in a straight take away from us. Thats the worst option. To the Americans is the better theory, but I dont know by how much. If we eliminate America and their war with India after those cities are given to India, I would think that would be handy to eliminate resistance within a few turns for them. So my take is hand all fully developed cities over that we know can build SS parts, and then destroy America. Again I dont know how that works in practice.
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