SGOTM 9 - klarius

[Obormot]

pre-flight
- MM ToE and Internet to be done in 9 turns. Swap some coastal towns to commercial docks. Reajust specialists.

IBT
- We discover AT, Electronics next in 4 at 90%.
- One of the science farms in the north of our continent flips to Izabella.

1160
- Reajust specialists for Electronics. Start aquedusts with engineers in some towns. Reykjavic slows down because of pollution. Even with all tiles stolen from Bergen, Bodo and Trondheim it is 1 turn late. Have to mine it to starvation to get internet in time.

1170
- Izabella knows flight.
- Furs deal ends, sell Scientific Method to get it back. No cascades possible anyway.
- MMing...

1180
- Start SETI prebuild in Entremont.

1190
- Nothing but MM. Not that tedious in my turns though as it is more or less stationary now.

1200
- Get Electronics, start tanks at 30% science. Swap Entremont to Hoover, Hooverville to Hydro Plant.

1210
-

1220
-

1230
-

1240
- We get tanks and enter MA after i trade with Izabella. I then do the manipulations described by Klarius Osman got Ecology, so there was no need to use peace renegotiation with Osman. Spain is in the MA and has 20 turns or so to research Rocketry for us. We can do Fission in 4 turns at huge deficit. SETI is due in 2 turns in Entremont, still long way to for Hoover. Gandhi is still in the AA and lacks CoL.

I stopped here after 9 turns, because i am not sure yet what to do with Gandhi and i feel that we should discuss it further. First of all we need to decide where we want his future core to be located. Klarius said something about building infrastruture in Carthege, but the towns there are small and lack everything - it'll take ages. I think his capital should be somewhere in our core: maybe Trondheim or Hooverville. I wouldn't give them Stockholm just yet: because it provides some beakers and because it can speed Gandhi up. In the worst case he has only 5 techs to research (CoL, Feudalsim, Monotheism, Theology, Education). I would also not capture Delhi straight after that so that we can arrange an FPJ nicely (by joining workers for max population) for Gandhi to move his captiatl to the best location. I would also start population replacing as soon as possible.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/klarius_SG009_AD1240_01.SAV

 

[ThERat]

great timing for the MA, now it's Gandhi we need to worry about. We should block all the workable tiles next to Delhi to slow him down. 5 techs is scary since we still need to research quite a few techs for the SS.

 

[killercane]

I think we should wait to gift as well, and personally I would hope not to have to, but gifting is the easiest way to make sure he starts his great advancement when we want him to. Perhaps when we start on Rocketry is a good time or sooner?

An Indian capital in Trondheim places all of the major production centers at a nice distance in the ring, including Hooverville. Do we plan on joining foreign pop in Hooverville after its growth this turn or right now to get Hoovers in 11?

I count the Internet giving us at least 50 tiles on expansion (depending on how many we steal from Osman, I never calculate that right) in 4 turns. We are only 28 tiles under so we need to plan for that.

 

[killercane]

Perhaps we can continue to try for a leader with those elite Berzerks, build a capital somewhere else (Oslo?) and gift him Trondheim straight up. Funneling him to Carthage is more difficult this way and messing up our corruption rank are the only problems I see with that.

 

[klarius]

Nice work entering the MA

I got it, but haven't looked much into the save.

Anyways my first action will be to finally get some boats to Delhi to block the tiles. It's absolutely not necessary that he has all the commerce there, while our boats form ship chains never used.

I still want to get him a foothold on the main land fast, so he can build some units there. I will look further into it, but I think it will be either Stockholm, with the coastal tiles blocked, or a new land-locked city (there is just a bit space to squeeze one in within the distance 7 requirement).

There is no possibility currently to capture Delhi. We have only 4 berserks. I will not risk losing them.
I rather will look to get a few bombers first.
There is also no need to capture Delhi currently. We don't need to move the indian capital right away.

I will also build up Carthage land. We still have around 30 turns to do so. I want India to have both our land and Carthage land later. But he should not get any small villages with no infra.

I don't think that Spain will research rocketry in time to be of use for us. Probably they are still on an optional IA tech currently. After that finishes they should start rocketry, but they will need a long time for that. Note how long they needed for flight, having their golden age.
I see no chance they finish in 20 turns (the time we will run out of required techs to research), so I think it's best now to rather use them to get cash, so we can sustain 100% research and still have money for rushes where useful.

 

[Northern Pike]

Yes, nicely done, Obormot.

Klarius, that plan of action sounds good.

 

[klarius]

Small mid-action update:

Did only get 3 1/2 turns done. Will continue tonight.
Ottomans are gone. Gandhi has a second city on our island, were he is supposed to build some units.
Delhi is blocked and the first bombers are hitting it.
Successfully managed the first wave of culture expansion due to the internet.
Another tile counting and city gifting session upcoming. .

 

[Northern Pike]

Another tile counting and city gifting session upcoming. .

Well, it is the season of giving. Good work.

 

[klarius]

Well, I played. The save.

Ottomans are history. Indians are on the main land. Research is on schedule.

Turn log:

Preflight:
Check the diplomatic situation.
Spain is furios. We have a weak military against them. And we are by far the power leader.
This spells t-r-o-u-b-l-e.
I draft some troops. Better now when the unhappiness can still disappear before Gandhi takes over.
Now we have a strong military.
I look for slaves to merge in our core cities.
In Carthage some cities have quite a lot of our population. I decide for a little Ottoman adventure with gift and retake.
I trade with Ottomans for Ecology. I gift Carthage, Hippo and Utica declare and take them back. Ally Spain for 120gpt.
Sell Computers to Spain for 300gpt, leaving them about 100gpt spare.
I will let Spain fight a bit. Could take Izmit, but am not interested.

Turn 1 1250:
Oh well, the spanish only come with garbage. Kill the Ottomans myself (well wanted only to look a bit, but there was only 1 spear left ).
Start to gift islands to Spain. These take a lot domination tiles for few specialists.

Turn 2 1255:
First bomb run on Delhi kills spear.
Settle Gandhi's Prison. Idea is a land-locked town with about 5sh, but low commerce.
Do the gifting and redeclare.
Move ships in. Blockade of Delhi nearly complete.

IBT:
Isa demands ecology. I give it. We are getting a lot gpt from her.

Turn 3 1260:
Counting tiles for the big culture push next turn. Gifting cities to Spain.

Turn 4 1265:
Fission->Nuclear Power.
Well, we have 3 uranium. But none on the home island. Spain has a spare, so we will need them to trade to Gandhi.
Gift some more cities to Spain for the next culture.
Delhi starves.

Turn 5 1270:
Not much. Workers and MM. We are 7 tiles from domination limit. I hope that the next action will be already another town for Gandhi.

Turn 6 1275:
The same.

Turn 7 1280:
Nothing new.

Turn 8 1285:
Nuclear Power->Laser
Last spear in Delhi dies to bombers. There are still warriors and archers.

Turn 9 1290:
A sword comes out of Gandhi's prison. Will try to pull it to Theveste.

Turn 10 1295:
Hoover completes.
Capture Delhi and generate a leader on the last warrior.
Leader rushes factory in Carthage.

Turn 11 1300:
Not much. MM and workers.



The Laser to complete IBT. It doesn't really matter, but I would do robotics next.
It's the most expensive tech. After this is MMed to 4 turns the rest of the techs will be easy, even when we already start to give cities to Gandhi.
There are lots of additional scientists possible, most food boxes are full so no problem to starve a little.

There is an Indian sword around. I wanted to lure him to Theveste, so Gandhi can build a few units there.
I noted that one shouldn't let the sword pass by a mech, because there is ZOC on the mechs. I wasn't aware of that until the sword got a hit.
The next unit out of Gandhi's prison I would pull somewhere into our core. Maybe Birka so Gandhi can build horses.

We are currently 4 tiles from domination limit, but no expansions upcoming. But obviously you cannot accept any flip.

Gandhi still doesn't know Spain and we should keep it this way if possible.
It would really be nice, if we can do the GL thingie with America.
It came to my mind that there may be another problem if Gandhi gets nationalism too early.
If he mobilizes he cannot build Apollo.
But even if we don't get him nationalism, he will not take very long to research or buy it.

Just noted Gandhi's Prison has starved to size 1 (was 2 when I gifted). You should block the desert tile, so he has to work the mountain for more shields.


Gandhi's Prison and his sword:

 

[Obormot]

Good work, Klarius. I think that Gandhi's capital should be moved east a bit at some point. We also need to build factories, manufacturing plants and nuclear plants when possible around his future capital. We should also build some tanks/MA to do some "adjustments" in case Gandhi decides to build a spaceship part in a crappy town. We would also need a spy to be able to see where his spaceship parts are being built. I think after robotics we should start replacing population in our core with neutral slaves. Too bad Osman is gone - we could have used gift & retake and then buy destroyed improvements.

 

[ThERat]

If he mobilizes he cannot build Apollo

Is it possible for us to build Apollo in one of the cities Gandhi will take and keep that wonder for himself? Does that work? I have seriously no clue.

Once Gandhi has uranium he might get wrong ideas and start too build nukes instead of SS parts...this seems all very tricky.

Anyway, got it. Will play slowly

 

[klarius]

Apollo is a small wonder. He has to build it himself.
That's really the tricky part.

He will build space ship parts when he can (though maybe also a few nukes). There may only be the problem that the builds are in the wrong cities.

@Obormot:
Sure, Gandhi's Prison is temporary. I thought we could raze it when he has a city in the north and east (e.g. Theveste and Birka).

There aren't any slaves left. They are already merged. I think it's even better to have the population mixed. If Gandhi gets the big cities w/o resistance they will immediately starve.
He needs Reykjavik for culture expansion, luxes and some MP.

 

[klarius]

Oh well, forgot one thing.
Don't build Manhattan Project.
And don't give fission to Spain as long as you can avoid it.
That will delay nukes.
We may later build Manhattan quickly when India starts it, but not earlier.

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
just to recap about techs
laser will be in next turn
we still need synthetic fibers
rocketry and space flight
superconductor, satellites and robotics

this means another 25 turns or so, if only Spain could research rocketry for us
move MI to cover the commerce tile so they need to work mountain

IT the Indian sword is a goog guy and captures the bait worker on the right way
Entremont finishes up wall street, set it to army so it can get a manufacturing plant later on

1. 1305AD
as expected, Spain gets communism and not something useful
MM to get robotics in 4

IT Indian sword is still on his way to Theveste, good boy

2. 1310AD
furs deal is up, actually Spain will be eliminated sooner or later
so, I don't renew it for the time being, also not giving them a new tech

I hope India will come up with another mil unit that can go east so they can expand there faster once
we need them to

3. 1315AD
cleaning up pollution and admiring the Indian sword

IT well, Theveste is now Indian

4. 1320AD
I don't take that Indian city just yet in case they really come out with another unit
use a worker as bait

IT this actually works as a sword comes out the catch our worker
we get robotics, synthetic fibers is all that's left before rocketry
Lindum flips to us, but I need to rebuff that, though we are 11 tiles from domination, no need to risk that

5. 1325AD
take out Gandhi's prison, capital now Theveste, much better
need to guide that sword towards the right town

6. 1330AD
Entremont has it's manu plant and goes for 2 turn armies now
continue to bait sword towards Birka

7. 1335AD
sword getting closer to Birka, rush manufacturing pant there (it had only 2 turns to complete)

IT argh, Indian sword runs in the wrong direction and is down to 1/3 health, fool

8. 1340AD
put an additional worker as bait

IT now the sword pillages the land instead of moving. thats really hopeless
we get synthetic fibers, no choice but to go for rocketry, Spain will never help anyway I guess

9. 1345AD
this Indian sword is a psycho, hope he will finally go in the right direction
a deal with Spain is up, they are no longer really needed, so we do not need to give them any luxuries
but we would like the money
give them mini for 262gpt, and furs, I do not take communism since I am not sure whether we want India to revolt

IT finally the sword complies and take the worker, it will hopefully not get the wrong idea again and take Birka soon

10. 1350AD
rocketry in 3, 3 other techs needed, means another 15 turns only
I hope India comes up with more units soonish so we can guide them towards Carthago

If Carthago/Theveste is the new Indian home, we should start to mine that area a lot so that India will build space parts
we should also rush improvements there before they take those towns

the eastern side

the western side

 

[ThERat]

now thinking about it a little longer, we should simply mine those tiles at Theveste, otherwise our friend will never come up with units

Also, Birka's tiles should be mined as well


ps I think i forgot to clear polltution at Entremont, next player please clear that, sorry

 

[klarius]

India on the move

A few remarks:

Get the units with zone of control away from the sword. It may be killed when moving otherwise.

I would recommend to give up killer 6, so Theveste gets a high shield tile. Otherwise it might get a bit late with unit production. And we might want to block the coastal tiles. It's unclear how much working (not resisting) population is in Theveste.

We can still move the Indian capital at a later time. Theveste isn't such a power city that it would hurt much (and hasn't many improvements).

Once again, we cannot eliminate Spain. We need them to trade with India at some time (not too soon). There is no uranium on our home island and it may take India forever to get an invasion to our celtic holdings. And then we still would have to guide them to the right city.
And we also don't know the aluminium situation.

Roster:
Ronald
Obermot
klarius
ThERat just played
Northern Pike up
killercane on deck

eh, people please post if you're on an extended leave for the holidays.
There's no need to hurry, but I like it more if I know what's going on .

 

[ThERat]

klarius, unless I am totally wrong a unit cannot get killed by ZoC, only redlined. So, it does not matter.

I agree on giving up killer 6, thought about that too and I am sure mining their tiles will help.

I forgot about Spain's uranium. Let's hope aluminium is in a proper place. Birka will give them rubber at least.

 

[Northern Pike]

Good stuff.

I've got it, but this will be a slow turnaround, due to Christmas. I assume it's the same for everyone, but if anyone wants to jump in before me and play more quickly than I can, just speak up in the next 24 hours.

What schedule are we on regarding the surrender of cities to the Indians? Obviously we can't let them have Carthage until we've discovered the last techs needed for space flight. Assuming I'm able to lure them into Birka, will we want to lose any more cities on my round?

 

[klarius]

Get them as many cities as you can (which probably is 2 at most).
They are still in AA and a couple of cities will not let them storm to education.
Only Trondheim should be avoided currently because the capital would jump to Entremont.

Edit:
Oh and BTW, you could also build some settlers to settle empty islands as the domination limit permits.
This serves two purposes.
First India might waste effort on building settlers otherwise.
Secondly it obscures the point we started our tactical retreat to the other teams watching the progress graph.

 

[killercane]

I will be unavailable from the night of the 23rd to the night of the 25th most likely. Please play ahead if I come up. And Merry Christmas to everyone.