SGOTM 9 - Smurkz

[ControlFreak]

{lots of good stuff}

I am amazed at how much you can teach me. I hope I can retain half of the playing style that you're bringing to this game. :thankx:

So to respond you your post, I can only say, YES lets do that.

 

[Niklas]

Looks fine.

Roster:

• CommandoBob
• ControlFreak - Just Played
• WarDance - UP!
• zyxy - On Deck!
• Niklas
• Methos - ghosting

Regarding WD's turns I agree with most or all of what zyxy said. I'll chime in with some thoughts on my own later tonight.

 

[ControlFreak]

I would say that the most important things happening on WarDance's turnset would be:

• Learning Corp, using the Big Picture to change the Coal Plant Prebuilds to Stock Exchanges (5x)
• Getting Wall St. in Vlad
• Continue to get 4-turn research on our way to Mass Production
• Getting our 1st and 2nd ring cities to size 12 with all improvements

We probably want to refound Oea and possibly the tundra city up north so that Carthage stops trying to send settlers but neither are a priority.

 

[CommandoBob]

Thank you zyxy for your detailed explanation of how you arrive at when and where to MM. To me, the most important idea was simply this: each city has a purpose. It should be MMed to maximize that purpose.

And thank you ControlFreak for detailing the nitty-gritty details of how you go about MMing. Even the dead-ends were helpful. And I like the concept of 'Missions'.

And also thanks to Niklas for revealing that the process of MM becomes less of a habit and more of a reflex; just another way to view a problem.

Thanks to you all, these posts were very helpful.

I would say that the most important things happening on WarDance's turnset would be:

• Learning Corp, using the Big Picture to change the Coal Plant Prebuilds to Stock Exchanges (5x)

The Inquisitve Idiot Returns
What is meant by 'using the Big Picture to change...'? I think you mean the City Advisor (F1), but I am not really sure.

 

[ControlFreak]

When you learn a new tech, there will be a pop up window with the advisors face asking you to choose a new tech to research and two option buttons: OK and "What's the Big Picture?". The Big Picture takes you to the Tech Tree so you can see more about what you have researched and what your options lead to to make a better decision on what to research next.

EDIT:Added Picture

The trick is that from the tech tree, you can hit F1 to go to the city screen. From here, you can right click on the producing (right column) and select something else.

EDIT: Added Picture

In our case, when WarDance gets asked what to research after Corporation, he will use the big picture to get to the tech tree, then hit F1 for the City Advisor, then right click on all the coal plants and select the now available Stock Exchanges.

The interesting thing is, if you rush the Coal Plant to completion (160s) on the turn before Corporation comes in, the ~40spt of a city would normally be lost. But if you switch to stock exchange using the big picture, the 160s remain, the bin size changes to 200s for the SE, then the city production is used to fill the bin. We can actually build SEs the same turn that Corporation comes in.

The Big Picture strategy is used to change prebuilds over to libraries, universities, or even Great Wonders, on the turn that the required tech is learned. It comes in very handy going for the fastest diplomatic win by allowing the 1000s palace prebuild to finish on the same turn that Fission is due, saving a turn in the process. It also works for the Party Lounge/Laser to bring spaceship wins one turn shorter.

 

[CommandoBob]

I like that. I can't wait to try it.

 

[WarDance]

Sorry for my lack of input the past few days. Been super busy. If no one minds... I'd like to ask for a skip and use my "play" time the next couple days to work on the spoiler. If someone else would really like to do it that's fine too.

I should probably finish the final spoiler for the last game too

 

[zyxy]

I am amazed at how much you can teach me. I hope I can retain half of the playing style that you're bringing to this game. :thankx:

So to respond you your post, I can only say, YES lets do that.

You're welcome. I'm sure we are all learning things from each other . Now stop flattering me, please .

WD, perhaps you would like to swap instead of skip? Anyway, it seems I'm up now. I may not have much time to play tomorrow or wednesday, but I should be able to finish my set on Thursday. If that's too slow, then someone else can go first.

I'll try to post a plan shortly.

 

[zyxy]

Plan for this turnset.

Long term

Get India to space asap:

• Tech Elevator: Keep India backward. Let India take the GLib city near or at the end of the tech race. On the same turn, gift all techs to some AI (probably Ottomans).
• Indian Empire: Gift India our southern core by proxy (i.e., via the other civs). This will probably be done partly before, and partly after the Tech Elevator, but not before India has sufficient force to take several cities in short succession. In this process, all cultural improvements and half (I think) of the other city improvements will be destroyed, but India's tech level plays no role (this was tested for gifting, but conquest probably works the same). It seems a good idea to get Great Wonders in as many towns as possible to protect them against razing, but this is not tested. Possible Wonders: Magellan, US, Hoover, ToE, perhaps SETI. If the AI researches the necessary techs then also Bach, Shakespeare, Smith.
• Indian Power Play: If the Tech Elevator is stopped before the top floor, then India will have to get some techs in peace deals. It is not clear yet whether that will work.
• ToE: ideally this wonder will give us Space Flight and Superconductor, the two most expensive techs.
• GA: should probably start early in the Modern Age. To be maximally useful it has to be started at least 20 turns before the Tech Elevator runs, but not until we can no longer keep up 4 turn research. US would start it, and a prebuild would have to start in Albu or 'grad about 30 turns from now - if we choose another town it has to start sooner. GA will hopefully help us to research 5-6 Modern Techs in 4 turns each. With 1 provided by Ottomans, and 2 from ToE, that leaves just 1-2 techs to do without any aid.
• Rivals: Ottomans will stay alive for their free techs. All other civs are to stay alive to act as proxies if needed, and possibly to do some research (of optional Middle Age techs). Possible exception: if we want to prevent drafting then any AI that learns Nationalism has to die before the Tech Elevator starts. Perhaps Spain will be reduced to OCC at some convenient moment in the future, but this is probably not necessary, and for now they prove useful as money supply.
• New Core: We do not really need the Tadpole FP core, and it probably doesn't pay off anymore to move the FP. Anyway, we lack the GL to do it.

Short term

• Research: Corp in 3, then Refining -> Steel.
• Workers: prioritize second ring cities. On Tadpole, prioritize rail backbone.
• Operation Wall Street: 'grad, Ol' Smurkz, Ismurkz, Zentral and Missi are prebuilding for SE. The first 4 have to be switched using the big picture. Vladi is prebuilding for Wall St and will finish in 6.
• Grow and improve second ring cities. Do we want to spend money for shortrushing Aqueducts in Trom (128 gold), Stein (about 300), Spicy (about 300)?
• Productive cities with nothing useful to build can train infantry and arty, to replace outdated (non-elite) units. Will install ship chain as mentioned by CF. We seem to have two chains then.
• Tadpole will switch to full science farm mode.
• Make sure 'heim and/or 'adelphia is on a large prebuild to snag Magellan if we want it.
• Settlers: perhaps 1 to hill next to Washington, 1 somewhere between Washington and NY, 1 between Seattle and Houston, 1 to refound Oea, 1 in the northern tundra of the homeland, and 2 to Rubber Tundra Island? I seem to have 5 settlers (nearly) available, so 2 more needed - well, we can probably fit 1-2 more if we really want to.
• India will probably not stir yet, but I'll just bombard a bit if she does, and avoid combat.
• One of Spains payments ends in 7 turns. Might decide to sell her some lux if she pays well. I will hold back Steam.
• Reduce flip risks to 0 where feasible.
• Docks will not be available until Turn 9 of the next set, so no need to prebuild for that.

Questions:

• Currently our treasury is large enough to fund 16 turns max research. Do we want to grow it more? Stabilize? Use some funds for rushing improvements? At the current rate we will gain money while researching Corp, Medicine, SciMeth; break even for Steel, MassProd, MotT; and lose some for Refining, Combustion, Flight, Electronics. We need to increase bpt by about 100 for Radio and Atomic. On the whole we'll probably break even in the IA (taking into account that our economy will still grow).
• When will we let India off the elevator? This is not urgent yet, but it impacts the timing of our GA. We may need to test this a bit.
• Detail: what is the purpose of the 2 Sages-Madrid ships?

 

[ControlFreak]

Questions:

• Currently our treasury is large enough to fund 16 turns max research. Do we want to grow it more? Stabilize? Use some funds for rushing improvements? At the current rate we will gain money while researching Corp, Medicine, SciMeth; break even for Steel, MassProd, MotT; and lose some for Refining, Combustion, Flight, Electronics. We need to increase bpt by about 100 for Radio and Atomic. On the whole we'll probably break even in the IA (taking into account that our economy will still grow).
• When will we let India off the elevator? This is not urgent yet, but it impacts the timing of our GA. We may need to test this a bit.
• Detail: what is the purpose of the 2 Sages-Madrid ships?

I would keep growing. We have enough for now but it can't go to much lower. Rush improvements as you earn more money. Don't forget we need hard cash to buy techs because our rep is shot.

Since India will keep the production buildings, I would like to take them to the top. However, I think as we start giving up cities, they are going to start researching faster and we might not make it to the top.

The Sages Madrid ship chain is for attacking if they provoke us.

The Tad Backbone is done. I would start railing the food bonus tiles to get the scientists fed.

 

[Niklas]

Alright, new roster:

• CommandoBob
• ControlFreak - Just Played
• WarDance - skip once
• zyxy - UP!
• Niklas - On Deck!
• Methos - ghosting

As a warning, I may ask to skip this round as well. I really want to finish GotM50...

I would keep growing the treasury as long as nothing crucial pops up. As long as we can maintain 4-turn research, there is no need to rush any improvements. And if the worst happens and Spain decides to go on us, it would be nice to be able to have some spare cash for fast rushing of units.

Research path should be straight for MP as noted before, whether to go for Refining or Steel first has little consequence.

 

[Methos]

As a warning, I may ask to skip this round as well. I really want to finish GotM50...

You don't need a skip. After all, you've got a week left, that should be plenty of time!

 

[ControlFreak]

I was thinking that it would be a good policy to keep Spain backwards now. Keep selling them Luxuries for gpt but forget about selling them required techs. There are two reasons: Spaceship and India.

Keeping them backwards will reduce the amount of time they will have to build the spaceship before India.

Keeping them backwards will also allow India to sell to the biggest money maker on the planet (next to us). (Of course there will be the other OCC civs to do that too, but I'm thinking that India gets to move first on the IBT.)

I'm also second guessing the elevator to the top strategy. We want to give India the maximum amount of time to build the Apollo as possible. That means we should give them the GL when we know Space Flight. It would also help to know as many other techs as possible. We are planning on getting 3 free Modern Techs, preferably Superconductors along with Space Flight and a first level tech.

I think we:

• Get TOE to come due 4-5 turns after we hit the Modern Age
• Gift the Ottomans to the Modern Age:
  
  If they get Ecology or Computers, we research Rocketry and TOE Fission/Space Flight
  If they get Rocketry or Fission, we research the other and TOE Space Flight/Super Conductor Best Deal!​
• Sell the Ottomans our three new techs and give India the GL.

That would leave SIX techs for India to acquire, but waiting till the elevator hits the top adds a minimum of 24 turns to the their build. Since the scoring is based on how many parts they build by 2050, I think we need to give them the earliest opportunity to start the Apollo and just hope and pray that we have enough cunning and guile to transfer the other remaining techs before they need them. On the bright side, we don't need to do 4 turn research after the GL is transfered so we can save up some cash for the spy operations we're going to want.

 

[WarDance]

I'm compiling info for the spoiler (Man, there is a lot to go through!) and have a question for zyxy. When you declared on the Mongols and got a Great Leader, was that the first combat of the Mongol war? It sounded like it was but I'm not sure. And "Canning the Khan" was a great campaign name, by the way. Don't think I caught that before.

 

[WarDance]

Here's what I've got so far. There's a heck of a lot of pages to re-read but I'm making progress.

------------

With the loss of team Durkz' namesake in the middle of SGOTM8 it was decided the team would be re-born as "Team Smurkz" for SGOTM9. Immediately the smurf references spewed forth.

"Ok so first we researched Bronze smurfing, then horseback smurfing, code of smurfs, polysmurfism..."
"Hero Smurf smurfs further west to smurf out some nice places to smurf in.
Papa Smurf is smurfed by a barbie, but smurfs him to cinders..."

Methos, Niklas, Wardance, and Zyxy return, joined by CommandoBob and ControlFreak.

Strategy discussions commenced immediately and our post count grew at a rapid pace. AlanH chimed in soon after our start:

Testing - is there really a page 9?

Our plan coalesced quickly. Our strategy: (1) Expand near to the domination limit and achieve 4-turn research as quickly as possible and cripple ALL other civs in the process. (2) Let India take over our fully developed cities at a controlled rate to give them the economic power necessary to buy or extort techs from the other civilizations. The first stage would be to conquer our starting landmass as fast as we could. Quite a curiosity to have 6 "builder types" so eager to hit the warpath!

We settled Smurkzheim SE of the cow. Initial builds were scout, worker, and then granary. We were all worried about seeing a repeat of the last game where our granary build was pillaged by barbarians, but we completed it without incident.

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Any and all comments welcome. Grammar, spelling, smiley placement, extensive use of the delete key... whatever.

 

[CommandoBob]

Quite a curiosity to have 6 "builder types" so eager to hit the warpath!

We are Vikings ; swingers of axes and wearers of hats with pointy sticks on them. We fear only one thing and that is Gandhi and his group hugs. And Gandhi and his flower-power kids. And Gandhi and his blue bunny slippers with the rabbit ears. The sooner we get Gandhi and his disgusting touchy-feely warm-fuzzies-all-around this-is-what-we-call-being-civilized philosophy to the stars, the sooner we can be the Vikings we always wanted to be (that is, if knew what kind of Vikings we always wanted to be)!

 

[WarDance]

You sound down right inspired, CommandoBob! Maybe you'd like to give it a go?

 

[CommandoBob]

Ragnar was not impressed with Gandhi. The skinny little man with a big head and soft voice got on his nerves.

“Just release your inner child” the leader of India was saying.

“Look!” barked Ragnar, “I don’t need no inner child. What I want to know is if we are friends or enemies.”

“Allow me to consult my advisors on this matter. Have you met them yet? No? Allow me to introduce you to Gilligan, Skipper, Mr. and Mrs. Howell, Ginger, Mary Ann and the Professor. We were all alone on this island until you came. How may we reward you? Shall we sing Kum-ba-ya? Or have a group hug?”

Ragnar had to be polite.

“Uh, yes, great to meet you. Here are my counselors, Niklas, WarDance, zyxy, Methos, ControlFreak and CommandoBob. My fellow Vikings meet the Indians.”

“We are of the clan of Smurkz,” said Niklas. “What clan are you?”

“Well, we are of the clan Minnow,” said the one named Professor. “Have you told the trees how much you appreciate them?”

“Yes, will you stay and enjoy some green tea with us?” asked Gandhi. “It is so soothing and relaxing. It defuses the animal nature in all of us.”

“Sorry, we don’t have the time. Where is your general?” Ragnar asked. He was not likely to defuse the animal.

“General?”

“Yes, the man in charge of your fighters.”

“But we are a peaceful people. We love everybody and seek world peace. We have no need for fighters,” said Gandhi.

“We are fighters. We want to see you fighters,” said Ragnar, thumbing the blade on his axe.

“Well, actually, Gilligan is the best fighter we have,” said Gandhi.

“I am?”

“Its okay, Little Buddy,” said the large one named Skipper. “We’ll be here to help.”

Ragnar looked at the lanky man with the big ears and was too disgusted to laugh. It would take almost nothing to crush these people. And doing so would teach his counselors almost nothing.

“Oh, I’m so afraid,” cried Ragnar as he held his hands in front of his face. “I can’t defeat the Great Gilligan. We must flee.”

His counselors looked stunned.

‘You heard me. ‘Run away! Run away!” quoted the Viking leader.

‘But, but ...’

‘Now.’

And the counselors ran back to the boat.

‘And for you, Gandhi, you make my stomach move. Your people are insipid and your advisors are comedians. We will have nothing to do with you. We are at war and will be forever. We will teach you how to fight, even if it kills you. One of these days, Gandhi, one of these days …bang, zoom, Straight to the MOON!”

 

[ControlFreak]

Yeah CB! (Small Nitpick, weren't we yelling from the mountain top? There were no boats in 4000BC )

{tap}{tap}{tap} zyxy, are you starting?

 

[zyxy]

Nice spoilers! I hope WD doesn't mind, but I like CB's most . Though the AlanH quote and the general smurfing of smurfs were also good. Keep it up please!

When you declared on the Mongols and got a Great Leader, was that the first combat of the Mongol war?

Yes. Dramatic, isn't it?

{tap}{tap}{tap} zyxy, are you starting?

Yes, but as I said earlier I had little time the last two days, and I only managed to study the save and do the initial MM. I hope to be able to finish tomorrow.