SGOTM3 Rome - Xteam

klarius said:
But I learned also in this my first SG that it's not easy to develop a strategy and have everybody then go straight for the same goal.
The team has to understand the strategy before they can participate in fulfilling it. I have said many times in this thread, I generally did not understand what our goals were and where we were headed - until the very end. That is the only time I felt I contributed to the team effort, before that, I was playing turns without a purpose. I know this cost us time in the end.

This is something we, as a team, need to improve on in further SGOTM's
 
@Leif
The first part of our strategy was growth and survival.
You did complain about the missing bigger view then, but that wasn't necessary at that time.
Everybody played very good towards these goals, which are the important early points no matter what variant or victory condition.
Then we were a little bit in disagreement for some time. But the course we then took seems to be a successful one.

In the endgame I think there was a clear plan and we executed it fine, though the enemy resistance was stronger than we expected.

I'm overall quite happy with the performance we achieved, even though I have complained about small points a lot.
 
I never said I was unhappy with the result. For the most part, the game played along in the style I am accustomed to, so perhaps it didn't look too much like I was lost! :rolleyes:

I have never played a game using many of the techniques that we used in this game, although I have read quite a bit about some of them but have been unable to put them into action. That is why I have come to enjoy the SGOTM even more than C or Gotm in many respects. At the same time, I think I could have contributed far more to the team had I understood the why of what was going on. Especially during the middle game, which is my weakest btw, it often seemed that we were playing several different games tied together loosely and not fully integrated. I was able to put it together in the end, but I lost much hair scratching my head in the process. :eek: (Not that head scratching is a bad thing)

Please, don't take it the wrong way as you have taught me several things in this game and I do appreciate it. (Some of which I used in GOTM 34, in which I received one of my highest Jason scores with a conquest victory :D ) All I am trying to say is that we can be more effective as a team and play an even better game if we can coordinate and communicate better. Think about all of us working in concert, we might someday equal the Jason best date in a game, good luck and the RNG being with us. :lol: :cool:
 
A couple of things to note about the game:

Without Leo's the horseman to cav upgrade trick would have been more difficult. We were essentially cash limited to 6 to 8 cav upgrades per turn. Those cost us 50G because we had Leo's. They would have cost us $100G each and really limited our production.

One thing I think we did particularly well was manage the stream of incoming AI units in the early middle ages. Our fortified cities on choke points (ie Gonzomonium) and our road network on the hills forced the AI units into the open ground where our cats and legions and horsemen shredded them. We lost so few units in that phase that it let us build up a strike force. That also gave us a large number of elites and then leaders.

The legions that harrassed and pillaged Greece were also an excellent move. They kept the Greeks feeble and weak. Their workers cowered inside their cities.

Denying the AI's Sun Tsu's was also an excellent move. Teams where one of the AI's got it have more problems than we did, as they faced vet enemies while we faced regular enemies.

We got lucky with the suicide galley. Our first made it through, right? klarius what made you decide to take that particular sea route? That allowed us to contact the other continent and buy some vitally needed techs. The teams that got crushed lost when the AI's had cav and they didn't. We bought chemistry, metallurgy and military tradition from the other AI's.

Also surveying the other team's threads, it is apparent that the other teams did not/would not use the resource disconnection trick (at least not to the extent we did). They all also set up proper second core without regard to the FP rank corruption bug. It seems clear to me that our assumption that the other teams would use such tactics and thus we should use them, is fundamentally flawed. I think we did a disservice to our fellow competitors by assuming they would do so. However what is done is done.
 
AdrianE said:
Also surveying the other team's threads, it is apparent that the other teams did not/would not use the resource disconnection trick (at least not to the extent we did). They all also set up proper second core without regard to the FP rank corruption bug. It seems clear to me that our assumption that the other teams would use such tactics and thus we should use them, is fundamentally flawed. I think we did a disservice to our fellow competitors by assuming they would do so. However what is done is done.
I wouldn't be so quick to come to this conclusion. There are some teams that haven't even build a FP yet. Team Peanut is considering jumping the palace to the other continent as a way of "teleporting" military units. There are teams with much play time remaining and I am not sure conclusions can be drawn until they play out further.
 
Time to post a final spoiler in the Game Over thread. I know Alan usually does this but I will feel bad if he comes home form a wonderful vacation and has to face this first thing! :lol:

I have put together the following post as a proposal. If you wish anything added or changed, please post and I will do my best. Thanks.

Post follows:

Team X - Final Spoiler - Playing the Variant

After posting our first spoiler, we all went immediately to Team Smackster's first spoiler and were in awe of their result thus far. We decided that we would have to continue and do the best that we could to get ourselves in a position ot eliminate our foes on our continent. we continued with our active defense and chewed up many AI units in what we called "The Valley of Death". The AI continued to attack into the desert area to the west of our core.

Contacts
Klarius managed to get a suicide galley across the oceans in 250 BC to make contact with the Aztecs. We learned that they were no further along in research than we were and that they had not made contact with the other AI on our continent. This put us in the position of being able to purchase techs as they came available from civs that did not know of our poor reputation of making GPT deals and then declaring war. We had a long discussion on whether to trade contacts or not and decided not to trade them immediately. In 440 AD, we traded contacts with Germany, France and England to the Aztecs for Chivalry, World Map, 7 GPT and 70 Gold. The Aztecs went from annoyed to furious as word of Roman harshness and cruelty spread throughout the world. However, from this point onward, we researched at 10% and were able to purchase the necessary techs, including Military Tradition.

Great Leaders
As seems to be the standard operating procedure of the X-Men our first GL arrived after The Great Library and The Pyramids were completed. Our first was 8 turns after entering the Middle Ages. In the next turn set of 10 turns we harvested 3 Great Leaders. These four were used for Hanging Gardens, built an Army, Heroic Epic and Sun Tzu's. We eventually made up our early leader shortage as the game progressed. We were fortunate to get Leonardo's Workshop with one of our GLs.

Military
Early in the Middle Ages we took inventory of the 58 Legions the Military Advisor said we had. Two-thirds of them were conducting MP duty in our cities. We decided that they should be out fighting. We began to build settlers and workers and free up our units to fight.

Greece. We decided to clean out northern Greece and seize the lux's there to allow our cities to grow and remain productive. We then kept Greece weak until we had the units to finally finish them.

France. Being a fairly close "neighbor", we weakened France by taking her cities directly. She fell in 1050 AD.

Babylon. They never were much of a factor in our game. They were always behind in tech and never produced many units. They fell in 1040 AD.

England. England was a powerhouse against us. We sent a Legion Army with a Horseman unit deep into English territory and pillaged everything we could find, especially resources and lux's. By the time we attacked her, England was at our mercy and fell in 1030 AD.

Rusia. The Russians were a minor power in our game. They sent quite a few units against us early but they never expanded as much as wexpected they would. They were also pilaged and harrassed and capitulated in 1265 AD.

Americans. The Americans were a minor power in our game. They never seriously challenged us. We dealt with them late but kept them weak through pillaging and taking a city or two per player cycle. Our focus during this time was the other continent. They were finished off in 1255 AD.

Germany. The Germans were a formidible force against us. We used the same technique with them as we did on America. We took a few cities at a time and kept pillaging them to weaken their defenses. They succumbed near the very end, in the last set of turns.

The other continent. Adrian landed in 1100 AD founding the city of Lauriacum as our outpost of refuge an immediately rushed a Baracks. Our strategy on this continent was to drive up the east side all the way to the north to give ourselves an area in which we could move freely, the Cavs could move their full 9 squares on roads. After hurting the Aztecs and Iroquois, we drove straight into India and japan and took their largest cities, gutting their productive capacity.

Aztecs. The Aztecs were the powerhoues of the other continent. They had large, well developed cities and quite a few resources. We landed in the south and worked our way north along the east side per our strategy. The Aztecs put up quite a fight but were no match for our Cavs, numbering 75 to start and growing to over 150.

Iroquois. The Iroquois were also a tough fight. They were well developed and had a large military. We worked up the east coast and then, able to move up the open "corridor", took out their two cities with horses and saltpeter, denying them resources. They also were eliminated during the final turns.

India. The Indians were not very tough. early on in our invasion, they sent a fair number of Cav units our way and they did a lot of damage in counterattacks. Once we invaded their territory, they fell fairly quickly, but not easily.

Japan. The Japanese had a fairly large army and also hurt us through counterattacks. The fell in the last turn set as well.

Empire Management.
Klarius and Alan were teaching me all about Micromanaging for most of the game. We tried very hard to get the most out of what we had.

We had a fairly long discussion about jumping the palace and that jump's effect with the rank corruption bug. The palace was jumped from the starting location to a city that was north of Athen's location in the former Greek territory. This allowed a second core and maintained a productive core around the Forbidden Place.

We also had a discussion concerning resource disconnection. While I had never used it before, it proved to be a powerful tool in defeating our enemies. Instead of using only shields to produce units, we used a combination of shields and gold to porduce units. This is done by disconnecting saltpeter and producing Horsemen and then reconnecting the saltpeter and upgrading the Horsemen to Cavalry. By doing this, we produced an average of 10 Cavalry units per turn once it was set up. We also turned research off, while keeping a single scientist, to provide an adequate supply of Gold.

I liked Mauer's map complilation and put one together for our team.
 
I like your write-up Leif :goodjob: .
Nice effort with the map compilation.
I would recommend, just post it in the spoiler thread.
If the other teams want to know more about our awesome strategy ;) , they can read our thread or ask, so I don't think we need to go into more detail.
 
There are a few minor spelling errors.

You might want to mention the cats/legions/horsemen combination that produced all those elite units and great leaders. We also had a defensive wall of legions fortified on the mountains that forced AI units into the open. That's where all the legions were, not on MP duty.

It was a legion army with a horseman that went pillaging. We didn't have cavalry yet.

The greeks were kept weak by the pillaging legions. The legions threat kept the greek workers hiding inside their cities.

We also postponed our golden age until we had monarchy. That might have been covered in the previous spoiler post.

I don't think we ever managed 10 cavalry a turn. I think it was 6 to 8 only as our income was between 300 and 400GPT.

We sold off a lot of stuff that was not necessary to finance this phase.

Nice write up though.

Adrian
 
AdrianE said:
You might want to mention the cats/legions/horsemen combination that produced all those elite units and great leaders. We also had a defensive wall of legions fortified on the mountains that forced AI units into the open. That's where all the legions were, not on MP duty.
Check out this part of the thread. <<MP Discussion>>
AdrianE said:
It was a legion army with a horseman that went pillaging. We didn't have cavalry yet.
You're right and I corrected it.
AdrianE said:
I don't think we ever managed 10 cavalry a turn. I think it was 6 to 8 only as our income was between 300 and 400GPT.
I know that during my set of turns I had some income from razed cities and from Barb farming. I have to check, but iirc we were at some point doing better then 400 GPT. You could be correct though.
AdrianE said:
Nice write up though.
Adrian
Thanks. :D
 
Leif

Just look at the pictures you posted. We only hit 500GPT at the very end. For the important phase it was 300 to 400GPT.

Adrian
 
I think for the important phase it was +400 gpt. We hit 400 gpt right after my second to last turnset.
 
AdrianE said:
Leif
Just look at the pictures you posted. We only hit 500GPT at the very end. For the important phase it was 300 to 400GPT.
Adrian
Did what you suggested and looked at it. During the 1250 AD turn it was 449 GPT. 1300 went down a little and then it was all up from there. So the last 30 turns the income was between 400 and 500 GPT, when we did the most damage. The last few turns we topped 500 GPT.

Besides, 10 is such a nice, round, and sweet looking, number. ;)
 
Great finish Klarius. What a cliff-hanger. Sorry I left you with such a tight target. It looks like several of the variant teams are falling by the wayside. Staff are the ones to watch, I guess.

Good write-up leif. Thanks for doing that. It would have been another week before I could have got around to it. There's some urgent business awaiting my attention as soon as I get back on COTM 4 submissions processing.

EDIT PS. During my turns I was getting about 450 gpt, and I was also finding a few barb camps, so I think I converted 8-10 horses per turn.
 
AlanH said:
Great finish Klarius. What a cliff-hanger. Sorry I left you with such a tight target. It looks like several of the variant teams are falling by the wayside. Staff are the ones to watch, I guess.
Yes, I think the staff team is looking pretty gooid right now. It depends upon what victory condition they decide I think and how soon they can achieve it. Their Cavs on the second continent appear to be met by muskets. Can we trade them some rifles perhaps?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
AlanH said:
Good write-up leif. Thanks for doing that. It would have been another week before I could have got around to it. There's some urgent business awaiting my attention as soon as I get back on COTM 4 submissions processing.
You're welcome. There is no reason you should have to do them all. It is nice to see you back, although a little early aren't we? :p Hope you had a nice time and good luck with the COTM04 stuff. What a thing to return to.. :eek:

BTW-SGOTM4 will be delayed, in case you haven't had time to catch up on things. M-B explains in the SGOTM3 Maintenance Thread.

EDIT - Just noticed you aren't back yet, hope you are having a great time!! :blush:
 
AlanH said:
Great finish Klarius. What a cliff-hanger. Sorry I left you with such a tight target.
Well, I like a good challenge. :)
But this was really tough.
I spent over 3 hours on planning before I even moved a unit.
Then I had the plan ready that would allow finishing every civ in 7 turns, if the RNG would give every city on the first try (sometimes with very few cavs attacking).
So there was only one turn slack and I needed it on the Aztecs.
 
Looks like we'll have our first laurels ;) Very well done everyone :cool:
 
Capt Buttkick said:
Looks like we'll have our first laurels ;) Very well done everyone :cool:
Thanks to Klarius' final charge (note the new avatar):goodjob: , I think you're right. I'm waiting for the final word from M-B before breaking out the champagne though. I learned last SGOTM that anything can happen until all the teams are done! ;)

Now on to 5 CC, should be interesting. :D
 
Well, in fact you have to wait till all have finished or passed the year 1844.
That would be the date to win by 20k.
Ok I lurked also and know that it's unlikely that team Bugsy could pull that off, so at least putting the champagne in the fridge seems appropriate. :D
 
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