SGOTM4 - Team Grayarea

Hi all!

AlexTop will post here today in the evening.
Sorry guys, but we had a quite hard weekend, so we couldn't relax with Civ3.

1. So, we will play vanilla, 1.29f. It's OK for me and Alex_Top.
2. I also agree about playing order. Just one note: First plyayer goes for 20 (or 30?) turns, all other go fo 10 turns. I vote for first 20 turns, but i can make a mistake.
3. What I can see from the starting pos., we should settle on a place. This city will not be good for wonders building, but to build first warriors and settler - very good position.
4. Our second city should be placed for wonders building - I think it's our 1-st goal to find suitable place ASAP.
5. Building order - warrior, warrior, warrior/settler (it depends from what we will explore).
6. Research - not sure yet, but perhaps one of the expensive at min., so we could save our gold, and trade our tech. all around for the cheap techs.
 
I also downloaded the files and installed them.

I'll have a look at the save at some moment(to see if something is unclear from the starting position).

Looking at the picture above, I want to tell my opinion:
1) I'd definetly not settle on the forest, but I'd move the settler 1E on the other side of the river and send the worker to road/mine the SE BG near the river; We already have 2 BG's(with the radious-expansion, we'll get them all) and there may be more under those forests.

2) If there is a food bonus close behind that mountain, we'get it with the radius expansion; if the food bonus is 2 tiles away from the mountain(2N), we'll waste 2 settler moves that they'll cost us in the long run.
Maybe we can get a food bonus with our second city, if we're unlucky and there isn't one nearby.
Remember that we're playing a 5CC game, and we'll only need 5 cities, and 5 STRONG-SHIELD cities, that is.

3) WE'LL NEED TO SETTLE NEAR RIVERS, so our cities will growth to size 12, without spending valuable shields to get aqueducts, and get their maximum potential quickly: at some point, we should also build granaries in all our cities(if we don't get a specific Wonder...), to grow even faster(it's not a waste at all but quick growth=power).

4) I intend to start with 4 warriors - 3 of them go exploring to get contacts and scout the area for the best settling sites for our next cities.

If there isn't a food bonus nearby, I'll start a temple(we're religious = cheap temples and we also get the culture) before I make a settler/warrior.
The temple will be in good use for later on, when we're going to build a Wonder, and our pop will increase and we'll need to keep them happy.

5) WONDERS: The Pyramids and the Colossus will be crucial for our Cultural victory. If we lose the Pyramids from another civ, switch to the Oracle. We want as many Wonders as possible. Palace pre-builds in time, will be crucial to get the Wonders we want, and to end any cascade to another civ(and to make them waste their shields!!! :evil: ).
From the Ancient Age, we also want the Great Library and the Great Lighthouse(if we're not playing a pangea game, we'll need contacts, otherwise we could switch to the Hanging Gardens or even the Great Wall if we lose all - at the worst case scenario, we could "delay" it for Sun Tzu's, if you know what I mean ;) ).

btw: If we hit our Golden Age with Colossus(it may happen, since we're religious), DON'T PANICK. We could build temples/libraries/granaries/barracks/units real quickly and be in a good position for cultural victory. It isn't so bad as you'd think; I had an experience with a 5CC epic that I had started to practise a bit ;) .

P.S.: more to come for our science path.
 
Hi KA!

Can you remember me aour civ traits? One is religious. What the second is?
Our UU are elefants, right?

P.S. What is your time zone? Mine is +2.
 
Given that we are playing vanilla RCP can be used to reduce corruption. This only works if all ring cities are exactly the same distance from the capital. Would this constrain our placement too much?

From the rules page;

"The first person in the roster plays to the end of the 3000BC turn."

I assumed that we start playing at the top of the play order. What is the normal method for determining the start player?

Looking at the start position, I would move the worker on to the mountain to have a look around and if nothing better shows up I would move the setteler east and settle there. The setteler may also show up something on the other side of the river worth moving for.
 
Correction: About the temple I earlier said in one of our options, I'd build it AFTER we pump out the settler, and while we're waiting for the city to grow. At that time it'd be wise to chop the forests(to get the temple be done sooner).

NOTE: I want ROADS to every tile that you move(obviously, you don't road a forest before you chop it), so we don't waste turns to go there again and make roads.

@Sir_Ortin: Hi!
Our traits are Religious(very good to switch goverments ASAP and get cheap temples/cathedrals :D ), and Commercial(so we can pay for the techs we're going to need ;) )

My time zone is GMT+3(or 2???). Greece is 2 hours ahead of England.

For those that don't know: In Despotism, we need 2 units for military police, so build 2 warriors because they're cheap, to have protection from barbs, and of course, keep our citizens happy.
After that, barracks.

2 of our strongest-shield cities(1 probably will be our capital) will build Wonders; when one of them doesn't build a Wonder, build improvements/military.

The rest 3 of our cities should focus on MILITARY: maybe one of them, could also start a palace/improvement pre-build at some time for an upcoming Wonder.

When we learn Mathematics, focus 1 of our 3 military cities to build catapults ALL THE TIME, when the city hasn't any improvements to build; better yet, build catapults to supply each of our cities, 2 in each city for a beginning(after that, improvements and again catapults).

Every city needs to have at least 2 spearmen; the front cities(if there isn't 1 civ behind our back, should have at least 4 spearmen; when we have them, only build horsemen afterwards. I hope that we'll have horses inside our radius :cool: ).

I could say more, but we don't know our map yet. If we're surrounded by other civs, make sure to divine our units in each city.
 
@Grayarea:
So far as I know, RCP works in every version.
We definitely should place cities with equal distance. I think it should be 5.5. There are many places (16) with 5.5 distance, so we can chose a place very precisely. And they will not overlap working tiles with center city. Overlapping can occur only between cities in 1-st ring, but we can easely avoid it. One minus is that we will be unable to move our troops between cities in 1 turn.

One more thought.

If we could find a suitable place for all our 5 cities with our first warriors, I think that we should start building in start city only settlers, move them in new territory (found cities) and then make a free palace jump there. To be shure that palace will jumped into the center city, it should be founded first (and no worker/settler production from it!!!), and only then cities from ring.
 
Oh, something important: since we're not industrious, we'll need 10 workers to improve the land asap, divided into pairs(so they improve a tile faster).
Once we don't need a pair and have improved everything in a city's radious, we can join them into cities(join them wisely; helping a city buiding a Wonder to reach size 12 for example, or slow growth cities).

EDIT: Our corruption won't be bad at all, because we'll only have 5 cities. Courts will help to reduce the small corruption that we'll have.

Thing is that we need strong-shield cities.

We should build our far away cities first, before another civ settles there, and takes "our" land, so we won't forced to overlap our cities and/or go to early war. We don't want an early war, while we're building our Wonders.

We should play peacefully as much as possible; when and if we'll need to make war, we'll decide about it, but we haven't much to gain as we can't build more cities and another civ could settle the razed/unclaimed land and defeat us by domination.
If we'd play pangea, we could go for Conquest, but, we'll see.
 
RCP does not work in Conquest. If cities are the same distance from the capital then they are ranked based on the order the program finds them in. In Vanilla and maybe in PTW, cities that are at the same distance are ranked the same (ie much better)
 
What should be our strategy about goody huts? Restless barbarians smells barb-warrior-popping.

First, I'd want to find as many contacts as possible with our warriors and explore as much as we can, and not having them get killed by barbs.
Maybe we can build a few warriors more to pop goody huts; spearmen would be good, but they take many turns at the beginning.

IMPORTANT: If a city from a nearby civ flips to us, take the unit(spear/pike/whatever) from it to go in one of our cities, and go to the diplo screen, select the flipped-city, and GIFT it back to the civ it had it.
Under no circumstances disband the city; the other civ will get furious with us(for disbanding their people), and maybe they'll go to war later on(and maybe they alliance some other civ, also).
 
If goody hut is not in open terrain, I think we can pop it and defence pritty well if there would be barbs. If goody hut is in open terrain, then it will be better not to pop it with our warrior who look for rivals.

to Grayarea: Thks., I know that RCP works in PTW, but was not shure about C3C.

to King Alexander: Once our cities reached size about 12 and produce enough gold, corruption will affect them a little. So, if there will be a chance to use RCP, we should use it.
 
@Sir_Ortin: of course I'd like it RCP, but corruption won't be big anyway, and I prefer us to get 1-2 tiles further, if we'd get a luxury(ies) after the border expansion.

Don't worry: I played a 5CC game to see how it is, and the most far-away city, produced the highest shield-production from all the other 4 cities(a court helped, and corruption was insignificant for the tremendous amount of shields it produced).

btw: I agree with what you said about the goody huts. If they're in hills/mountains, go for them and pop them.
 
@King Alexander.
Yes, I totally forgot about luxuary resources. Of cource they are more important then RCP.

So, when will you plan to start playing turns?
 
First, we need to wait for Alex Top to check in, so he knows our plans and/or offer his opinion also.

Matternich should also read all this.

Last but not least, we need to discuss about our science path. We'll need to build Wonders.

I think, the capital should build 2 settlers at most, so it could start a Wonder; if we find a food-bonus nearby, then the capital builds only 1 settler and maybe a worker after it builds a temple, and start on Wonders: the other 3 cities would be built by the city with the food bonus, that is.

If the capital isn't near the coast, 1 city should build the Colossus, after we trade for BW.
 
RCP and resources / lux

We can and probably will have to use outposts to snag these. Once we have them we will have to put units around them to stop other civs from founding a town and taking the outpost from us.

We should try and use strict RCP to reduce the corruption, I know it may only be a small percentage differance, but over the game as a whole it will be significant!
 
Hi all!

I was tracking your discussion in read-only mode. :)

At first: I am novice player in SGOTM and 5CC as well. So I prefer to listen to expierence players first, and then make some proposals.

Right now I agree with our strategy. Just one question: what will be our research?
 
Welcome to our Team, Alex Top!

I don't have any SG/SGOTM experience from a 5CC game, either; I only tried it at 1 of my own epic recently, to see how things are.

I'd say, that pottery is a tech that I'd like us to have, so we start a granary, get the settlers/workers that we need(and we're going to need 10 workers total, in 5 pairs).

We could research Pottery asap at 90%, and if we meet a civ that has the tech, trade for it/buy it and start minimum on Writing at 10%, and buy other techs with cash(especially, Masonry and Bronze Working), as in the begin, it isn't good to pay gpt.

Another option would be to research/trade for Pottery-Masonry(palace pre-build)-Brone Working, as those techs have the Wonders we want at the beginning: Pyramids, Colossus. Mysticism also gives the Oracle.

A lot will depend on if we find a food bonus, to get all our cities going asap, so the question is: where to move the settler and the worker.

I intended to move the worker to the SE BG so he could begin mining/road it asap, and move the settler 1E at the other side of the river.
If there is a food bonus behind the mountain or to the East, we'll get it when our border will expand; if the bonus is 2 tiles after the mountain, we'll waste 3 turns to found our capital.

If I move the worker to the BG and I see a food bonus to the south, I'll move the settler 1S to the forest.

Fact is that we MUST stay near the river, and those moves I proposed above, may be are our best choices. If we go away from the river, our capital will stay at size 6, and we'll need to wait until Construction to build an aqueduct.

Now, what you all say for the above?

btw: I loaded the save to see if something is clearer, but it isn't. The weird thing is that it says Queen Hanabella(or something) from the neoCarthaginians. Are we playing India or not?(I mean, at least, do we start with the same techs and have the same UU?)
 
For the captial theres 3 choices-

i. Build it where it is- good because it has a river already there.

ii. Settle just over the river- better in that it could have an extra food and lux in its expanded border but would interfere with any city placed east of this i.e. there's a coastal hill to the east which could have fish and a whale.

iii. Go directly south 2 squares to the grassland )- not bad but has worse squares to work than the above but could build coastal wonders.

After all this I probably would go for i. build it where it is. Just because of being able to have that eastern coastal city without any cross over tiles.


Research-
Normally I'd go for pottery for an early granary and a settler pump but as we are only ever going to need 5 settlers for our 5 cities I think it best to risk gaining pottery from a trade.

Writing is a good choice. There's a good chance we are only one of 2 staring with alphabet so it could be useful to trade. After, go for literature for an early Great Library, though usually I wouldnt bother researching a second tech and have 0 research and trade instead though at this level I'm not sure.
If not Writing then Mathematics though as long as we don't miss the line toward GL it probably doesn't matter.

when is the game starting?
 
@matternich
How do you know the map? Did you remember it from playing GOTM? Also, I did not think that Mad-Bax would leave resources from previous game. I think that he have rerandomized them. So, we can only count on a shape of continents, location of our neighbors (North, South-East, etc.).

From what I can see on our start location, the best place for starting city is E - behind the river.

What to research - go for Writing at min. We need first explore our continent and then choose the location for our 5 cities.
 
This is why we do not need growing at first so much.
 
@Matternich: so, you're suggesting that we settle at where we are.

As for the techs, what you suggested is what I'd normally do, since we start with Alphabet.

The thing is that we need 4 settlers and 10 workers, so we improve our cities asap, and I think that the granary will pay off. After 40 turns have passed, we should make sure to buy a foreing worker when one is availabe: 2 of them equal one native worker, and the native worker should join a city(better a city building a wonder).

Maybe we should research Pottery asap. IF we have a food bonus nearby the capital, the city is going to grow quickly, while it's terrain is constantly improved, and will soon become a shield-powerhouse for Wonder building after it pumps out the settlers/workers needed. Anyway, with the granary, the city will soon be able to growth to size 12 and have many shields every turn.

What do we do about the Wonders we want to build? We're missing Masonry(Pyramids) and Bronze Working(Colossus), and maybe Mysticism to switch a Wonder if needed.
I mean, we won't have something to build(Wonder) if we will take long to make contact with them. Our coastal city wouldn't be able to start Colossus.

Masonry also gives the palace-pre-build, and maybe a coastal city would make the pre-build and switch to Colossus, once we trade for Bronze Working.

We could go with Writing after Pottery, but we're risking a lot to stay behind in the Wonder Race. It's a gamble, but we could go for Writing at 10%(I still believe after Pottery), and be lucky and trade/pay for the techs we want, but for that to work, we need to meet quickly civs that have those techs.

I'll have a look at any SG's going for Cultural, if I can find any that starting with the same techs.

EDIT: @Sir_Ortin: I do consider all opinions before we decide on our strategy, yours including.
 
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