SGOTM5 - Team Ivan

[I. Larkin]

repiat again: after close wathc.
Good things to do at this turn: Sort out zulu (demand City and what they give). Make RoP with Kelts (offer good gpt), bring troops to Kelt City at S. Egypt and declare Kelts. Strike Kelts and connect south Egypt Cities. Bring English in Alliance vs Kelts now for Iron, say. It will help our south army. Only nextMake peace with France (demand their Cities, they also give huge GPT, may be better to take money and Bordo). Declare Iroques next turn. It will breake RoP, but we already lost RoP reputation somewhere.
Reduce Lux

 

[I. Larkin]

Turnlog was difficult, but I sent few files during my play.
In addition I am sending my picture of war with French.
It is good illustration of "How to use Altelery Effeciently"
Circles (8 Art) show bombard position and date of capture Cities.
(rectangular is small 3 Artelery group).
Another important feature of strategy is capture Baqdade, as a port of
unload and railroad Baqdad - Lyons.
Unfortunately I loose 1 Galeon with 4 Cossacks IBT 1445-1450.
I finished arabs at 1420 AD and declare war to Franse without pause.
I bring Japan and Iroques at this war the same turn.
I rise Sci at max, and make intesive Lux-Res trade this year.
War with Zulu goes normally. To help I sign RoP with English at 1440.
I built pentagon in Madras.

 

[King Alexander]

I played 2 more turns, and I'll continue to play: I just went with our plan - I didn't read Ivan's edited post, as I was playing.
Anyway, I'll post the save and I'll play the remaining 5 more turns tomorrow.

Pre-turn
I make Peace with the Zulu and demand Umfolozi(they wouldn't give Ulanbatar).
I make Peace with the French and demand Bordeaux + Brest + WM + 33g.
I make Peace with the Aztecs, as they have a longbowman next to to Bordeaux(you can't know before the Peace with France, if the Aztecs had troops there). Anyway, the Aztecs have only their capital.
Trade WM for 5g.
Declare on Kelts. Sign MA with England against Kelts and gift England Steam Power + Nationalism, as part of the deal.
Capture Eborakum(Keltic) on our main island, along with a settler and 2 workers(4 workers total). I abandon 3 of our useless cities(so we don't have to worry about them), as we go to capture others, but we should be carful about NOT hitting Domination: I suggest to recommend CivAssist or MapStat EVERY TURN before you hit "Enter".

Declare on Iroquis, and as our rep is thrown away, I attack them as well:
We autoraze Akwesasne. We capture Tonawanda and Salamnca(keep it). We capture St.Regis on our home island.

IBT
Aztecs and England sign MA against Iroquois.
France and Kelts sign trade embargo against us: we get a "we love our king/zcharina day", and the war weariness gets away(only 1 unhappy citizen in a size 12 city!). We also get a palace expansion.

1470AD (4)
It seems that the peace treaties got us out of Mobilization, so I mobilize again.

We autoraze Cataractonium(Celtic), south of the former Egyptian cities.

Trade WM for 78g.

Rush a destroyer.

IBT
Japan destroyed the Aztecs.

1475AD (5)
Nothing - just railroads. Trade WM for 7g.

Guys, if you have any ideas, it's good to post them, don't be shy

We can't reach the core Keltic cities, of course, if we don't make war with Japan.
Idea: We can sign a RoP with Japan for furs - they won't agree for MA against the Kelts or MPP either -, rairoad through Japan's territory to reach the Kelts(of course, infantries will protect our workers as we advance), so our strong eastern Army can strike the Kelts(our weak western Army heals atm).
Then, we can keep our RoP with Japan, as we raze Keltic cities, and break it when it's time to also strike Japan?
This plan maybe will save us turns? Otherwise, we have to declare to Japan and slowly advance(although I could take 2-3 Japanase cities at next turn with the western Army).

btw: if we decide to strike Japan, I can soon send some units towards their 2 cities on that island near our core island.
Oh, Japan is paying us 74gpt for the resources/luxuries.

 

[I. Larkin]

"I didn't read Ivan's edited post, as I was playing." you may write plaing now.
I make Peace with the French and demand Bordeaux + Brest + WM + 33g."
Did they offer gpt?
"Declare on Kelts. Sign MA with England against Kelts and gift England Steam Power + Nationalism, as part of the deal." Did they pay gpt?
I think RoP with Japan better than war. Watch if they strike us using RRoads.
Block potentially dangerous Cities.
We will have AW soon, send 1-2 transports outside main circle of islands to attack single tile Cities.
Reduce Lux

 

[King Alexander]

France gpt: didn't check, sorry.
England gpt: No.

I'll block the path from Japan's borders(to the east, of course) completely then, but we can't be sure whether a Keltic galleon will unload units behind that line, if we don't see it coming: there're some "dark" areas that we can't see, that is.
I'll transport some (foreing)workers from the FP island(we don't really need that many there: we can only road/railroad slowly to the western mountain-side, 1-2 tiles at a time, as there're no roads to railroad the "path" at 2-3 turns) to go and fortify in "dark" areas, so we have a view of what's going on there(otherwise we could have a sneack and surprising attack, if we don't see a foreing galleon coming).

I reduced lux at last turn, currently making around 74gpt.

I'll send 2 transports, and I'll escort them with destroyers while they're waiting for the marines to come(I wouldn't want to fortify them inside cities that may flip, so the destroyers should protect them).
If I remember well, we learn MP next turn(?), so we could have some battleships(change the pre-built from destroyers: we cannot afford rushing) after a while.

 

[I. Larkin]

Will look at save now. Good idea to send workers. Baqdad will not flip, you may leave some transports there for ship chain. I think you may send 2 empty transport without escort to attack 1 tile Keltic City later. But if you have spare destroyer why not?

 

[King Alexander]

Our entire western Army is fortified outside cities(with the exception of a few infantries that protect cities with barracks/cities we possibly need), and MANY units are fortified in that city with the cossack-Army(they were injured: healed now).

Another idea: I think it'd be good to leave a fortified worker for each tile we railroad inside Japan's territory and here's why;
a) Japan won't be able to use the railroad network for stupid/unecessary AI moves, that could block our cossacks/Army from using the railroads - I want my units to have the ability to strike/blitz and be able to fortify them at the same turn at a city with barracks(if possible), so they can heal and I can use them again the turn after.
b) We can also use the railnetwork to also attack JAPAN, after we deal with the Kelts.

 

[I. Larkin]

I checked save and see, that RoP with Japan also slow. They agree for RoP for Fur.
I think, we should sign RoP, bring artelery and cossacs at position and strike Japans Capitals. I will send a picture soon. why you do not use Artelery? Your position of army looks dangerous. Looks that you become paranoid about Flips.

 

[King Alexander]

The position of the Army might be dangerous, but I really don't like flips. Don't worry about it - only Japan could strike there, but it won't do it - these cities are crappy cities, and we only have to lose from a flip.

I used the Army to fortify/"fight" around 7 resistors in each big Iroquois city, but only at the first turn when I captured the cities.

I do use artillery.

So, we're going to attack Japan with RoP? Might be better this way, and maybe it'll save us some game-turns, than waiting to reach the Kelts.

 

[I. Larkin]

Here is a plan. Sing RoP with Japan for fur.
Bring 9 Artelery and Cossacs and armies at
9 A positions, and 4-5 Inf to strike position.
I think We may capture 3-4 Japan Cities at first strike,
with bombardment. South Army should care about chinise Cities,
Vikings can strike anytime.

 

[King Alexander]

I think that Japan and Kelts are really busy right now making settlers to claim the unsettled area - I have no idea how strong Japan currently is, but we'll find out soon.

I hope that it won't take around 9-10 cossacks to capture the big cities(Kyoto - Tokyo - Satsuma), as it was the case with Marseilles despite the bombard. I wish that this time our units will have an easier time, after the bombardment.
I also wish to capture the 3-4 cities within the first strike, because I need the workers from the razed cities - I'll only keep Kyoto(Bach's, Smith's), if all goes well. We'll see.

Ivan, those Japanese cities in jungle will take us some turns to capture/raze them.

 

[conehead234]

Plan looks good. If you can, rush some galleons on the southern coast so we do not have to sail all the way around to get to the 1 tile island cities once we reach marines. Japan has a 1 tile island city. Try to get it from them. The city is pretty isolated and will take us a couple of turns to reach it.

 

[King Alexander]

@conehead: yes, I'll demand Japan's 1-tile island.

btw: we're short on money, as we have cut some trades, or we plan to cut another one - with Japan paying 74gpt, that's about what is our current gpt.

We now have transports, and none galleon: every 2 turns, a transport can leave from the FP continent and unload units on a harbor on the big continent, so we can have reinforcements ready for war, every 2 turns.
btw: a transports' capacity is 6 in this game.

I'll make sure to send 1-2 transports towards the 1-tile islands.

 

[King Alexander]

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/Ivan_SG005_AD1495_01.SAV

Pre-turn
Sign RoP with Japan, gift them Furs for the deal.

IBT
Japan demands Electricity: of course I give it to them, with all my heart and soul!

We now have other problems, as barb camps started to spread along the "dark" tiles, and a warrior enters the borders of Alexmanistan: the barbs also use our railroads, and although they're not a threat, they could take away our gold if we don't watch them closely(a barb horse could easily walk into an undefended city).

1480AD (6)
Lower science to 70%, Mass Production next turn.

We autoraze Allegheny(Iroquois).

Trade WM for 6g, and see another barb camp threatening our cities: 3 camps in total. I hate it when I attack a barb warrior on desert(that entered our borders) with a cossack and lose 1hp... I must transfer a few workers quickly, so we see the "dark" tiles. I destroy a dangerous barb camp.

Rush a harbor in Strasbourg.

Railroading through Japan and moving artilleries, infantries and cossacks.

IBT
Another barb warrior enters the borders of Amiens, I kill him(next turn), 3/4hp cossack goes 1/4.

1485 (7)
Mass Production >> Amphibious War in 4.

A Viking pike/settler comes out of Malmo probably aimimg to settle where we razed the Iroquois cities: sign RoP with the Vikings for Silks, so we can continue roading/railroading towards their cities, probably reduce a sneack attack, and sign now before I break the RoP with Japan.
Our troops are in position to strike, although we need more units, as we a bunch of barb camps to watch for and also there's Ise(Japanese) behind our lines and with 2-3 cavs could capture some undefended cities. I also don't have cossacks right now on the FP continent to attack the Japanese cities, and have many workers inside their borders as well as the borders of the core Japanese cities.

We raze Grand River. I disperse another barb camp.

IBT
England and Iroquois sign Peace Treaty.

1490AD (8)
We raze Centralia, and now there's only Viking cities on the western mountains/deserts.

Declare on Japan:
Raze Ise(the city behind our lines), Hakodate(on the FP continent) Niagara Falls, Nara and Satsuma.
Capture Osaka, Cattaraugus, Tokyo(we might want to keep it as it has Leo's, but it's too late now? The Team can decide what to do: I keep it for now), Kyoto(hear what it has: Oracle, Great Wall, Sistine, Shakespear's, J.S.BACH'S, SMITH's - it has many resistors though) and Nara .

We lose 8 cossacks to do all that(yes, I had bombard the cities with artijleries), and many cossacks are injured/red-lined - half of them were defeated on picking Japanese cavalries OUTSIDE cities, can you believe it? I mean, the cities were easier to take/raze!

We must be careful now, because the Kelts can attack from the side of Kyoto.

I always traded WM, but it was for some change, so I didn't mentioned it in the previous turns.

The Vikings don't want to trade WM: just from curiosity, I offer them Wines for their WM. I suspected that there might be another 1-tile island, in a few "black tiles" near Brest, but I was wrong. Anyway...

IBT
The Kelts want Peace Treaty, although I dindn't fight with them at all until now: I refuse from the time being, but we can reconsider if we want: just to know, they agree for a RoP along with Peace - Hmm...it's very tempting... We can decide when I post my save: I'd take the deal and do what Japan experienced!

We got a "we love the zcharina day", mainly from having Bach's I guess. We get 3 palace expansions and complete our palace.

1495AD (9)
Lower science to 60%, AW in 2 turns.

AutoRaze Matsuyama on the FP continent. Disperse a barb camp.
Capture Kagoshima.

My PC has another of it's often crashes, reload and continue playing(after the autoreboot): luckily, I had saved until that moment.

Raze Edo. Kill a Keltic pair/settler.

The last 2 cities cost us 5 cossacks to take, but we "cleared" the area.

Capture Teotihuacan without loses, after bombard.

Capture Shimonoseki on our core-cities island.


Ok, I want some time with my family now(we're all together for Christmass), and I'll stop playing now.

Points:

1) Keep roading/railroading towards the Viking cities, and INSIDE them: we have RoP.
2) Remember to DEMAND Saporo(1-tile Japanese island), before you make any other deals: of course, Japan won't talk right now - maybe they'll talk next turn. Anyway, for good measure, I have unloaded some units on the 2-cities Japanese island(near our home-island), so, strike there first and see what Japan offers after that. The units there could also destroy France(although I've seen a French caravel going somewhere - maybe it has a settler).
3) Maybe it'd be good to accept Peace + RoP with the Kelts and do the same as we did with Japan.
4) I have many injured units inside BASRA: most of them will heal next turn. Another SoD is near Kyoto and Teotihuacan. I still have infantries blocking our lines from the war with Japan, but we don't need them there anymore.
5) I left some infantries fortified in other cities, because of barb camps: I donn't know anymore if it's a good idea what I said earlier for seen the "dark" tiles: I think we just fortify a unit in those cities and no matter what the barbs do, we won't have to deal with them while we're in war - we need our cossacks elsewhere!
6) Some cossacks are fortified inside Atlanta and next to it, (near FP) to heal - they were injured from attacking the last Japanese cities there.
7) I also have some transports on their way, and 2 transports west of Bangalore should go from the other side of the big continent, aiming the 1-tile islands with marines.
8) I also had 2 more tranports in production(near the former Egyptian cities): they should aim to go to the island with the Chinese/Spanish, etc...
9) Our treasury is better now: do we want to keep researching or stop researching with AW, and rush units? I prefer the later.

Most important: Ivan and conehead, we own 40% of the world: I suggest to PROPOSE to abandon some cities, so we don't hit Domination, because, sometimes, someone can forget to check it, while he makes war-plans. We could abandon, for example, Osaka, Cattaraugus, Kagoshima, a couple of the former Iroquois cities, NOW.

Good luck.

 

[I. Larkin]

"Japan demands Electricity: of course I give it to them, with all my heart and soul!"

Thats mean your were open to Japan. In fact this is bad, I hope we kill them before RParts, but vikings have a chanse.

"Ivan and conehead, we own 40% of the world: I suggest to PROPOSE to abandon some cities, so we don't hit Domination, because, sometimes, someone can forget to check it, while he makes war-plans. We could abandon, for example, Osaka, Cattaraugus, Kagoshima, a couple of the former Iroquois cities, NOW."
Mapstat says that we about 1000 tiles before domination.
May be my program wrong? Better to keep Cities as our "frieds" do not block our communication, but check Mapstat regulary.
Certanly we should keep small island Cities like Hovd, Edu, Bordo...
I have not heard Tomoyo long time, he is up, actually...
My experience shows that he did not follow recomendations.
Reality, however, is that we may finish very soon if plan Transpot/Mariners trajectory wisely.
P.S. I had discussion with mad-bax about Coal plants. Looks they works now.

 

[King Alexander]

Thats mean your were open to Japan. In fact this is bad, I hope we kill them before RParts, but vikings have a chanse.

I think that Japan was wide open to me I didn't want to risk war at that moment, before everything was perfect as I had decided my war-plan(a bit complicated ) and was going to execute it next turn.
@Ivan, Japan has 4 cities left, it's almost DESTROYED : , and I had 1 more turn to play(I played 9 turns), so don't worry about them:
2 Japanese cities on that island near our home-island(I already unloaded units there), Saporo(1-tile island) and their capital which is their only city left on the big continent.

I almost destroyed them inside 2 turns. Take a look at the save. No need need to worry for Japan, but make plans for Kelts and Vikings(we can destroy Engalnd and Zulu capital for a warm-up on our way to the west).

Beware though, if Kyoto or Tokyo flip, take them back immediately, ESPECIALLY Kyoto, that has Smith's(more gpt) and Bach's(happiness boost).

Now, if Vikings learn RP, I bet that they won't built more than a couple of infantries: they're really busy trying to settle the land.

All those new cities the Vikings make we can destroy in 1 turn and strike them the next turn(if not the same), I'd say, that may be in less than 10 turns from now, as I really expect us to destroy the Kelts completely in no more than 5 turns from now, IF we sign Peace + RoP and do the same as we did to Japan.

I'd suggest to make peace with the Kelts ASAP and demand RoP: they'll accept it(I could have done that myself in my last turn).

Mapstat says that we about 1000 tiles before domination.
May be my program wrong? Better to keep Cities as our "frieds" do not block our communication, but check Mapstat regulary.

Ok, more cities give us more gold, but should be really carefull about it: we're playing with the fire here, if we lose from Domination.

 

[King Alexander]

Please, read my 'Points' at the end of my turnlog, and feel free to comment on it and/or add new ideas.

If we play smart, this game will be over soon.

The workers on the FP island are fortified near Memphis.

 

[I. Larkin]

I can't look at save right now, but I belive that game almost done: I hope 25 turns as a max. May be RoP with Celts finish game faster. I know, however that any next war takes longer time before negotiation may be possible. May be we strike them harder and they give up 1 tile City? It is long way there...
Did you send transport to Ngome (zulu)?
Cross posted. Edit:
I read your points, for me all out of questions.
The only things to discuss is peace with Kelts.
I did , and still not sure that it is a good idea.
Did you finish or will pkay 1 more turn?

 

[King Alexander]

I'm finished, as I have passed the 3-day limit now. Yesterday, I wanted some time to see my sister that came back for vacation, so I played 4 turns, but it took me a while before I had decided what strategy to follow(I wanted to gain the best possible result).

2 transports are near Bangalore(if I remember correctly), and 4 more transfer units on the big continent: we may want to send 2 transports from the later to go towards Ngome/1-tile islands(as they have some way to: they have to circle around the continent), and replace them with the transports near Bangalore?

I'd just sign Peace with the Kelts + RoP, railroad and KEEP positions with cossacks along the railroad network inside Kelts, strike them when everyone is in position.
I'd also BLOCK the tiles around Kyoto and the last city I took(don't remember the name) with Infantries, so NO Keltic or Viking unit can pass from there, but delay with ships/caravels.
btw: we may want to KILL that Keltic Bowman/Settler on the mountain, before we make Peace + RoP.

We can do just that with the Vikings later, as we already have a RoP with them, and we give them 2 luxuries. In this case(Vikings case)), I'd concentrate to railroads again, and strike FIRST their CORE cities and then pick up their new-settled cities easily

Of course, that's just some ideas that I say here: the Team will decide what to do and what's best to do.

EDIT: When we're going to strike the Kelts, don't forget to bring in the 2 Western cossack-Armies from the other side - we also have some troops in that (former-Zulu) city.

EDIT2:btw: new reinforcements come quickly from the FP continent, so we really shouldn't have any problem in executing any of our plans - we still have a good force on the eastern front, despite our loses. Just read the turnlog and see where I left the units fortified.

And we could always RUSH 1-2 transports from a coastal city on the other side(southern side) of the big continent, so we can get to the 1-tile islands faster.

Also, we can rush the 2 transports already in production on the FP continent, to go towards the Spanish/Chinese island. I think we could shut down research with AW.

 

[King Alexander]

@Tomoyo: you're next - do you have any questions for me that you want them to be answered(since I've posted the last save)?
Please, feel free to ask any questions to me(regarding my turnlog/ideas) and to the Team for the plan we should follow.

Also, post your ideas/comments, because every idea/comment we think is valuable for the outcome.