SGOTM7 - Team Chunky

[chunkymonkey]

Solid performance

I can't play until Monday evening at the earliest so there is plenty of time for discussion.

Hmm, Persia to the south. We are somewhat boxed in aren't we? I would love to be able to get HBR or Iron from them soon as a backup.

Everything seems good though. I agree about creating temptation spots for our enemy to land. Makes things much easier to predict. I prefer predictability

 

[Mach]

Thanks, CM. I think I might have been able to save one of the archers -- Izmit had two regular warriors, and I could have brought one over. My bad...

I was looking at the save again, and I noticed that Aydin and Iznik have some decent flip chances, like 3-5%. Not that there's anything we can do about that, I'm just pointing it out. Maybe we'll want to rush libs there once we're in a different gov, just for the culture bonus. (I was hoping we wouldn't have to do that, I guess you're right Baal. )Until then, though, all we can do is hope...

Also, Arabia's power graph is shrinking. Maybe they're at war with Persia? Think Persia has used their GA in despotism? (Would that be a good thing or a bad thing for us? It would certainly be a good thing if the Arabs were hanging on, but it looks like they're losing...)

I think if we contact Persia soon, we should get HBR. Retreat is good.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Looks really nice. What do you think of a premature attack on some shore cities before the AI gets a road network? I think of Karachi, we can raze it with 3 galleys of archers/horses and spears. I'm a dreamer, you know.

 

[chunkymonkey]

Looks really nice. What do you think of a premature attack on some shore cities before the AI gets a road network? I think of Karachi, we can raze it with 3 galleys of archers/horses and spears. I'm a dreamer, you know.

Yeah I would like to do something like this too, but i'm worried that by the time we get some troops over there, the Indians will have a mass of troops wandering around just waiting to be shipped over to us. We would probably get massacred. However it would be nice to secure a beach-head in India. But that's not for me. Lets decide once we get the Library.

Once I get to Literature, I've worked out I can research HBR in 4 turns or IW in 5 turns running a defecit, should I start doing this (just in case we get screwed with the Library)? Or should we risk it and just start stockpiling cash straight away.

I'm gonna play later (in about 4 hours). I looked at the save and it just looks like an endurance set. I think I'll clear that camp and explore the southern coastline. Maybe stick another city down on the south coast. I'm going to try and start to clear all fog, because I think the AI must be close to the Middle Ages now. Any problems let me know soonish...

 

[Mach]

On this note, maybe it might be useful to get a defensive army over there to pillage? I understand ai's tend to ignore armies because they're too strong. That would require us taking a city to assemble the army; so we could take Karachi, get the army out there and pillaging, then retreat back to our island. Might be a way of softening the target. Just an idea for the future.

 

[chunkymonkey]

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/Chunky_SG007_BC1000_01.SAV

0 - 1250BC - Reduce lux to 10%. Change Aydin build from Archer to Rax.

1 - 1225BC - Istanbul worker -> settler. Found Konya next to eatern horse. Start warrior. Move warriors to cope with possible barb threat.
IBT - A barb warrior attacks a fortified regular and loses. Our advisor wants us to build Forbidden Palace. Washington builds Pyramids .

2 - 1200BC - Bursa builds archer -> curragh. Have to switch Pyramids pre-build over to Palace. [/sweaty palms]
IBT - Indians switch to building SoZ and finish it... Zulu switch to building Great Wall.

3 - 1175BC - Iznik builds archer -> archer. Get ready to take on the barb settlement.
IBT - Zulus complete the Great Wall. Americans (NY) complete the Lighthouse (ack whats going on!). barb horse attacks us but fails.

4 - 1150BC - Istanbul settler -> warrior. Archer attacks settlement and wins, redlined. Phew!
IBT - Vikings (Copenhagen) builds MoM.

5 - 1125BC - Istanbul warrior -> settler. Bursa curragh -> archer. Move troops into position to tackle camp on NW penisula.

6 - 1100BC - Disperse last barb camp. We are pest free now!
IBT - Learn Literature. Switch pre-build to Library. We can get IW in 4 turns with -4gpt, so I go for this.

7 - 1075BC - Found Sinop next to desert olives, giving Bursa access to mountain goats.

8 - 1050BC - Istanbul settler -> archer. Bursa archer -> archer. Iznik archer -> archer. Izmit warrior ->warrior.

9 - 1025BC - Nothing to report.

10 - 1000BC - Istanbul archer -> worker. Uskudar granary -> worker.

I have started stationing archers alongside possible flip cities. There is no way we can eliminate the flip risk, so we just need to ensure that we can retake the city if it does happen. We should always use our weakest units as police i.e. regular warriors since we can't afford to lose anything decent.

The settler currently in play should settle 1 tile south of where he is.

Iron Working in 1! Up to the team if we go for HBR as well just in case Library doesn't fall into our lap. We should probably start upgrading some of our vet warriors into swords - but only ones that aren't at risk of loss from flipping.

Expect to hear from the Americans soon, now they have the Lighthouse. And they are bound to teach it to the Zulus and the Indians, who still don't know Maps. Lets prepare for landings within the next 10-15 turns.

Waiting to hear from the Persians. Looks like they are battering the Arabs. I have a curragh heading that way, but it is being chased by a barb galley.

There are only 3 AA wonders left now, Library, ToA and Gardens. I almost had a heart attack everytime the completed wonder pop-up came up. Nobody that we know has a pre-build going, which is good news, and the only guys not to have built a wonder yet - who we don't have contact with - are Persia, and the Arabs. So I still remain hopeful!

I think the key now is just to pile up military, hope we get the Library and then start kicking somebodys butt.

If we don't get the library suggest we just build FP instead. But that would be a shame. We should probably build the FP in Edirne afterwards anyway.

CM - just played
Baal - gets to build Library!!
Khan -
Mach -
Conan - Missing out on all the fun

 

[Mach]

Fantastic, CM. The GL race is going as well as it could. Got my fingers crossed... When we have IW, assuming we have iron somewhere, shall we upgrade any of our warriors?

As for the FP, I was figuring we'd get a leader eventually to rush it. Edrine can stay at 10spt and build 3-turn nice units.

Also another Karachi thought, we can raze & replace, make a strong fortress out of it, and let the Indians gas themselves against it. Indians got SoZ huh, that makes things a bit more difficult.

Hm, I really have no opinion about researching HBR next. If it was me I think I would turn research off, but if you do the opposite Baal that would be fine with me too.

 

[Baalzebul]

Going great.

It will be a stressfull 10 turns but I can't play till tomorrow evening.

Can someone post a SS.

My major concern is SOZ. They' re the tanks of ancient age.

How many turns left for finishing GL?

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Niiiice, the wonder cascade is over (I hope). This means we have a real chance on the GLib. Is it still in 7? Go on Baalzabul, and turn down the research please, we want money for upgrades. Is ToA keeping the cascade alive among our neighbors? Is poly known? Because that's the only problem for the Lib I see now.
And keep patroling the island, I'd like not to see 20 or so Barb Horses come out of the fog.
I hope we don't have any connected Iron, I prefer the warriors as builds for now. But I hope we have Iron too

 

[chunkymonkey]

Can someone post a SS.

Sorry I was just being lazy last night

The red dot is where the settler should go next, and blue dots are my suggested next city spots.

How many turns left for finishing GL?

Seven.

Fantastic, CM. The GL race is going as well as it could. Got my fingers crossed... When we have IW, assuming we have iron somewhere, shall we upgrade any of our warriors?

Yeah a couple, but I think we should try and limit the amount of swords we keep in cities. We should keep them outside just in case they get lost to a flip.

As for the FP, I was figuring we'd get a leader eventually to rush it. Edrine can stay at 10spt and build 3-turn nice units.

Yeah, probably better.

Is ToA keeping the cascade alive among our neighbors? Is poly known? Because that's the only problem for the Lib I see now.

Have no way of knowing if Poly is available sibce we don't have CB! But nobody we know is building HG or ToA, doesnt mean the Americans or the Vikings couldn't be building it (although they have already built 2 AA wonders each...)

And keep patroling the island, I'd like not to see 20 or so Barb Horses come out of the fog.

There is no more fog! No need to worry

I hope we don't have any connected Iron, I prefer the warriors as builds for now.

We could always disconnect the iron and reconnect it at any time if we think this will work in our favour.

 

[chunkymonkey]

Oh yeah, pretty important question.

Once we get the Library, should we revolt to Monarchy, Republic, or Feudalism?

I choose Monarchy. Less WW than Republic, more support than both, and 3 police limit.

However if Feudalism wasn't forced labour i would have gone for that.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Monarchy definitely. Though I think that we won't get that far immediatly. Just look how slow the tech pace is because of the AW!
We have 6 more cities to be built. Istanbul can take care of this in 4 turns combo mode if we don't have Iron connected. Put one on the river coast north of Aydin IMO.
Is Uskudar ready for his lifetime task? It doesn't seem in cycle to me, I think we must priorize it getting 5spt and 5fpt. This will give us a lot of advantage.
Izmit is not a flip risk AFAIK, why is this archer standing there?
Build the libs in threatened cities, this will help against the enemy pressure.
Final Question: Is ressource disconnection allowed?

 

[chunkymonkey]

Put one on the river coast north of Aydin IMO.

Whoops, yep, there too, forgot to draw that one on the map

Is Uskudar ready for his lifetime task? It doesn't seem in cycle to me, I think we must priorize it getting 5spt and 5fpt. This will give us a lot of advantage.

No, it is too corrupt for that. Maybe once we are in Monarchy it will be OK, but for now, it will need some ad hoc mangement.

Izmit is not a flip risk AFAIK, why is this archer standing there?

Yeah my bad, he doesn't need to be standing next to Izmit, i either wanted to send him next to Konya, or pop the village, but couldn't decide which. On reflection, he should go next to Konya now.

Build the libs in threatened cities, this will help against the enemy pressure.

Slightly, but at the moment are flip percentages are like 0.4-0.8% with required garrisons of 20-30. So i figure 2 archers outside the flippable city is better than a library. Whatever seems good at the time is fine with me, i just figured we needed more troops desperately after Americans got Lighthouse.

Final Question: Is ressource disconnection allowed?

Never seen anything against it in the GOTM rules, and it doesn't seem exploitative to me. We are not getting anything for nothing - we have to pay the 60 gold per sword, and we get the lost worker turns. I'll sckeck it out though.

 

[Baalzebul]

In my opinion Monarchy is the best but I would prefer communism.

Now the critical question. Will we research HBR or gamble and set research rate to 0? 7 turns is a long time but I want to gamble. What do you think about it?

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

If a neigbor of ours knows Litterature (we can see this one) and or building GLib I think we're fine. Vikes and Americans have allready wasted their shields for 2 wonders each, I doubt they can threat us on the Lib.
In any case we wont win that much by researching. I vote for research 0%, even before IW if the others don't threat us with landings.
EDIT: GL is not enough for a ottoman GA I think, can you check this for me please as I'm not sure. Forgot it's threats, I haven't build it for years.

 

[chunkymonkey]

Yeah thinking about it, set IW to 0% now.

This will save us the ability to build warriors, which is more cost effective. And as soon as we get threatened, or lose the Library, we will be able to research in 1 turn.

Library's traits are just Scientific (not industrious), so no problem there with getting a premature Golden Age.

I'm off into London for a couple of days so i shan't be around til tomorrow evening. Hope everything goes well!

 

[Baalzebul]

Nops we' re scientific & industrious so we can have a premature golden age.

 

[Mach]

A few notes...

Be careful about the city nw of Aydin -- it'll be under heavy cultural pressure. Maybe it can wait until we've rid the Indians of Karachi.

I'm leery of keeping our iron disconnected for long. We'll be turning research off soon enough, so I don't mind running a lux rate if we have to. I'd like to build a force to burn and replace Karachi; that city is a blight on the earth. With walls, spears, and cats, we can get a nice fortress and good kill ratio there. Let the Indians gas themselves.

Thank goodness the Zulu got the GW; it coulda been one of our neighbors.

I hope we can change govs soon -- once Istanbul is done building settlers, it would be nice to get it to 15spt, but I don't think we can do that in despotism...

 

[Baalzebul]

And another question? If we enter an early golden age what will we do?

I guess building libraries or temples at cities that have a chance to flip and building heavy military units at other cities. We don' t need so much infrastructure for now maybe some aquaducts and markets sometime later.

A combination of spears, swords and cats would be cool at destroying Karachi.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Going so early on an AI quest is not the best, they have huge armies and will crush us. Raze and remplace is not a good objective. I'd just say raze and culturaly control the free space with a city up there.
And the Zulus are our neighbors...