SGOTM7 - Team Chunky

[chunkymonkey]

Actually, yeah you're right about caravels. we're gonna have more galleys than we know what to do with soon since that's what the corrupt cities are up to.

The sooner we get to sipahi the better. And cannons. And the military academy. I completely forgot we still had our GA to come. Woohoo!

 

[Mach]

Just dashing off a quick thought before I lose it...

If we load a knight into the army, then make the landing...will that one-horse army be on top of the stack? I'd hate to lose it straight off to an AC; I want that army as close to the bottom of our stack as possible...

 

[chunkymonkey]

Good point. Yes probably, can't remember the exact formula for army attributes - but I think it is improved slightly just by being in the army.

In any case it's a moot point. If we delay the landing until the next turn, so that we can land our suicide pikes in the north, which seems like a better idea, we can bring the empty army into Aydin, load it into a galley then drop it off next turn to the bottom of the stack.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

About the army thing. I'm sure we cant form an army from a GL in the open, it must be in a city, but we learn every day and now we know that we can load units in already formed army in the open.
Re landing, lets not risk the army with a single knight as it'll be on top and take the first strike. The 3 defense pikes will be under 3+something defense army.
Actually we can wait for a turn to get the leader in India (too bad he has only 2 movement points on roads), the risk is worth it. Or send him there on turn 2, I guess we'll have a lots of units to clear before striking Karachi.
I agree. Lets go for MT, the Academy for the army strength boost will be nice, not to mention the SIPAHI! And the first leader we get must be used for the Academy IMO.
Good luck with that invasion Baal.

 

[Baalzebul]

Thanks I will need much luck.

I' ll check and play tonight or tomorrow night.

I think I won' t risk the army now and wait for the best time.

 

[Mach]

Looked at the save last night and everything looks great, I don't see any tweaks I could add.

Meanwhile, I saw that forest e of Madras -- I vote let's take the turn and land there, if that scouting galley finds nothing better east of Lahore. So my suggestion goes like this...

Preturn -- move the northern pike galleys to the northern tip of India
Turn 1 -- land the pikes on the forest (or on a hill around there if you find one)
Turn 2 -- evacuate the pikes, land the invasion force (I would say 8 pikes, empty army, 4 knights, 6 MI's, settler)
Turn 3 -- fill the army, take Karachi, move units in and fortify, abandon, build New Karachi. Get some reinforcements into the new city, it's gonna be a heavy next few turns.

Be careful, when we abandon Karachi, if it has any whip memory it'll move to our nearest city, so watch for that.

These are some important turns; not just the invasion, but also hanging on in front of the Indian counterattack. Take your time, have fun, and good luck Baal!

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Looks fine as a plan to me, Mach... Lets hope that Karachi will be quickly taken, the other problem we may face is if the tile south of it is occupied on turn 3... Maybe turn 4 can be used for landing some more units too...

 

[Mach]

the other problem we may face is if the tile south of it is occupied on turn 3

Possible. The northern landing should divert their troops, though, so I think our chances are pretty good of that tile being clear.

Maybe turn 4 can be used for landing some more units too

It's a small point, but I doubt it, for two reasons. First, we'll be able to move 10 troops on turn 3 directly into the new city, and I don't think we'll have more to spare immediately after that. Plus also on turn 3 the galleys will have to load troops in Aydin, move 2 tiles, and move those troops into New Karachi -- so the galleys will end up on the tile sw of New Karachi. From there the best they could do would be to land new troops on the tile s of New Karachi on turn 4, which I wouldn't recommend. I'd drop them right into the city on turn 5... But I'm sure Baal will figure out his own version of all this.

Also, a piece of advice: try to keep the army out of New Karachi, unless it's really hurt. The city will have flip chances, and moreover the army would be on top of the stack if it's in the city, so it would have to stand the chance of getting killed by freak jumbos. Keep the army healed, and try sending it out to pillage and/or pick off units...

 

[chunkymonkey]

Instead of settling a new town on the ruins of Karachi, why don't we settle it one south, as a temporary town.

Advantages - easy to ferry units back and forth with one sea tile in between. We are gauranteed a culture barrier past the town to stop the 1 movement point units. All we will have to defend against are the horses. We can attack the iron units that get trapped in our border and leader fish. Also, its less of a flip risk.

Disadvantage - May muck around with distance corruption in our core a bit, but it is only temporary - once the offensive is over we can abandon the town.

I don't mind really - since I won't be the one implementing it, but I just figure it would be safer. The rest of your plan sounds sweet Mach.

I think I won' t risk the army now and wait for the best time.

Oh, definitely take the empty army with the first stack. it will most certainly be needed.

 

[Baalzebul]

I examined the save and I have an idea.

I will wait till gunpowder then upgrade pikes at Aydin to muskets. Land at the forest SW of Madras with pikes. Next turn I will land muskets and a settler at South of Karachi (even I can land the army and build a musket army for defense). If I can survive there I will build a city, resist and then destroy Karachi.

 

[Mach]

The rest of your plan sounds sweet Mach.

Oh hey, this is just the plan we all came up with, I just posted the map for clarity is all. Doesn't sound right to call it 'my plan'.

Instead of settling a new town on the ruins of Karachi, why don't we settle it one south, as a temporary town.

Yep, I have nothing to add to that; you broke it down well. Good call. It won't even really cost us a settler, since we can move the city.

I will wait till gunpowder then upgrade pikes at Aydin to muskets.

Hmm. I think this should be discussed. We do have the cash for it, but in my mind that cash was earmarked for deficit research (and cash-rushing a wall in New Karachi). Is it worth the research slowing? I think I say no, but I'm not sure of that. Maybe it's worth upgrading a few of the pikes, maybe two. How do upgrade costs work again? The shield cost difference between musket and pike is 30s, I think that means 90gp for an upgrade...

even I can land the army and build a musket army for defense

In any case, I say don't do this. Build a knight army, it'll be more useful. Musket army has only 1.5 defense points more, but it has much less attack and movement.

 

[Baalzebul]

1.5 defense points is a very good advantage I believe. A musketman that has a 6 defense and 16 hitpoints will do much work but I will obey the teams decision.

 

[Mach]

Well, it'll help us hold the city, true. But I think pikes or muskets behind walls will do the trick there just fine, without needing a defensive army. Meanwhile it'll be a less effective pillager, and it won't help us in the future with burning more Indian cities or taking out enemy landings. A knight army could do all these things for us.

Now that I'm thinking more about it, I like the idea of upgrading two or three pikes before the landing. A single musket behind walls should do fine against a jumbo, especially with a little treb support; a single pike is a bit more iffy.

Let's see what chunky and Khan have to say. I don't mind talking these turns to death, they are so critical.

 

[chunkymonkey]

I'd still prefer the knight army over the musket army any day. Yeah, it will help us initially but after that its relatively useless compared to the knight army. If we can get this beach town built we should only have to defend against a trickle of horse-based units. The rest of them we can pick off at will.

I was thinking 2 or 3 muskets would be useful just to absorb AC and jumbo hits behind walls, but no more than this. If the Indians didn't have MI or jumbos, I'd say muskets were a good idea all round, but they have good chances of dying to jumbos and MI, just as the pikes do.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

I agree, the usefulness of a musket army is low and it's cost is high, in money (270g for upgrades) and in army unit. Knights look fine to me. We wont face so many strikes I hope as the slower units will be stopped in our cultural space...
2-3 muskets are fine to me. Not more, the ridiculous single defense point up doesn't worth 90g.

 

[Baalzebul]

Ok then I will land at point 2 first. A turn later land at point 3 with pikes, muskets army & 4 knights and try to take down Karachi and settle at point 3 but there are only 5 galleys at Karachi so I will need to wait a few more turns.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Don't forget MDIs, thats is probably their last chance to be useful.
It's not worth delaying too much the landing for another galley, 20 units landing is enough to start with.

 

[Baalzebul]

You mean total 20 with two landings at point 2 & 3 all together.

 

[Mach]

You mean total 20 with two landings at point 2 & 3 all together.

No! He means 10 pikes at point 2 and then 20 units at point 3. You see, if you move units from the shore into galleys that are at sea, then those units can't move again. But if you load units into a galley in a city (when both the unit and the galley are in the city, by hitting 'L' or using the load button), then those units are still free to move! So, you can do this...

1.) Load 10 units into the galleys in Aydin.
2.) Move the galleys 1 tile out of Aydin. (Using 3mp)
3.) Unload the galleys on to the landing tile.
4.) Move the galleys back into Aydin. (Using 1mp)
5.) Load 10 more units.
6.) Move the galleys 1 tile. (Using 2mp)
7.) Unload the galleys, for a total of 20 units landed.

Please be sure of this, it's very important.

This is the beauty of chunky's suggestion to place the city right there across the strait, south of where Karachi is now. Then the galleys would be able to load units in a city, move across to the other city, unload, and those units will still have movement points! It's pretty nice...

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Mach is right, and I wanted to add that you can unload units even if your galley hasn't any turns left... Just right click and choose the units in it, or click "Wake all passengers".
Don't offend, Baal, I'm sure that you already know all this but we wanted to clear this out as it is a key to the invasion. Each galley currently in Aydin must deliver 4 passengers in the first turn. So the landing party of the first turn will consist of 20 units, transported by 5 galleys.