SGOTM7 - Team jeffelammar

[CKS]

Edrine is on the river. It is on grassland. A hill would have been nice, but the only hill reasonably close to Istanbul is the olive hill. It is off the river and not a helpful to build on resource. It gives us incense in our first 9 squares, allows us to build on the other incense if we want, and gives a one-move (after roading) passage to a city built on the spices, which should also be on a river.

A granary in Istanbul and a barracks in Edrine sound good to me.

How closely do we want to space our cities?

 

[jeffelammar]

Things look good so far. We're at war with 1/3 of the world, that's a start

As was speculated, it looks like we have some good land to exploit.

I can play tonight unless we need more discussion.

Initial thoughts.
1. I would like to go with a CxxxC placement if possible, but I think location is more important than the placement goal.
2. I agree completely that a granary in the capitol makes sense. I'll get that going. Rax in Edrine sounds good.
3. Cities - from my attached pict. I like the red dot first. Then the Blue. ( I could be convinced that the reverse is better, and as always will listen to all ideas)
4. The Barb. I'd really like to get that one out of the way so we can explore a little farther. (Just climb the western mountains, southern hills and 1 farther to the east for the moment.

@DocT - Not sure what order you are proposing, I have no objection to moving the roster around, but I think we have a pretty solid roster, so I don't think this order is bad. We could switch you and Whomp (if he doesn't mind), but I'm not sure how much difference that would make.

Note: I'm confused how I didn't see this yesterday. I thought I checked in... Sorry, I would have posted last night if I was competent.

 

[Whomp]

Is the reason you're suggesting cxxxc because of the small map? I would've thought CxxC would make sense because of 1 move coverage for foot soldiers. Regarding the red dot wouldn't 1SE make sense because you'd have more food workable tiles instead of mountains, no river crossing and there's a chop too (or is that jungle?).

Jeff I think slotting me between you and Doc makes sense.

 

[denyd]

Somehow I wasn't subscribed to this thread any longer. I'm back.

All looks ok, though I'm a little worried that we're going to need Map Making to get to anyone. That gives the AI a pretty big head start on research.

I agree with getting rid of the that barbarian quickly, but how? We only have no offensive units at this point. Maybe Edrine builds barracks & an archer or 2. I like the dot map and agree we need a little more info before placing the light green dot. The blue dot could also move 1 NE, though it would make the spices pillageable, the hill does provide better defense.

We should be getting close to finishing research on The Wheel. Since we have Warrior Code is Horseback Riding a good next option or should we head for Map Making?

I have a question about the always war definition. Is it legal to reduce a AI to a single city, sign peace for techs and then break the peace during the same turn and kill off the AI or are we required to remain at war until the AI is dead.

 

[CKS]

I'm very nervous about placing the cities farther apart than we can reach in one turn. I like the red dot city, as it is three steps from Edrine, gets the goats and the fp wheat, and pops the hut with no possiblity of barbs. If we settle the blue dot, too, I think we will also get the second goat tile, though I'm not sure about it. The tiles south of the goats are jungle, not forest, I'm pretty sure. The red dot has the advantage of food, so I'd prefer settling it before the blue dot.

The pink dot is far away, although with the river crossing a city to the east is either going to be two moves away or very close. We'll need to explore a little more before it will be clear where we should build the next cities, I think.

I'm open to the settling on the hill NE of the blue dot, too. Either way is okay with me. If we walk our settler + escort via the mountain north of the dot, we'll get a little extra view that might help with the decision.

My understanding is that we are required to remain at war until the AI is dead; we cannot make temporary peace treaties to take techs from them.

I'm inclined to head for map making if we haven't seen any units on lands clearly connected to us by the time we finish the wheel. However, if there are other nearby islands, say to the south of us, with visible units, we could probably get alphabet in trade and this would hurry us along toward map making. In this case, HBR would be better, or nothing while we wait to trade. I don't think that we can count on this, though.

 

[jeffelammar]

I have a question about the always war definition. Is it legal to reduce a AI to a single city, sign peace for techs and then break the peace during the same turn and kill off the AI or are we required to remain at war until the AI is dead.

2. You must remain at war with each Civilisation until the end of the game, or until that Civilisation is destroyed.

This rule seems to rule out that kind of trick.

As a note, I also lost my thread subscription over the weekend. Don't know what happened.

My desire for CxxxC is more based on overlap. Our Capitol is going to be short on production squares due to all the water, so I don't want too many cities overlapping. I am willing to be overruled, but I would like to see our core cities have at least 8-10 workable tiles.

I don't want to be crippled in the critical Middle Ages because we built too tight at the beginning. I think we can have our 5 core cities a bit more spread out, but I may be being overly optimistic.

Curses, I just realized I had typed this up but did not submit, sorry CKS answered parts.

 

[jeffelammar]

I knew I was going to say it sometime, I just didn't expect it to be from barbs. "LOOK OUT THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!'

The Save

The good: Istanbul can be a 3-5 Settler Factory.
The bad: Lots of barbs.
The ugly: With Istanbul hogging the Sheep, Edirne is building/growing slow. And the barbs kept me from improving Edirne's squares.

Turn Log

Turn 0 : 3000 BC : Switch Istanbul to Granary

IBT: Barb moves south out of sight Check file, yes barb fix is in place. They are still Stupid.

Turn 1 : 2950 BC: Worker moves to forest to chop

Turn 2 : 2900 BC: Worker starts chop. Wheel in 1, but still need 100% science to get it.

IBT: Learn Wheel -> Alphabet (Maybe build some Chariots for upgrade) 2 more barbs approach.

Turn 3 : 2850 BC: There are horses by Istanbul. (I didn't realize they could be on grassland, I thought it was hills and plains)

IBT: India starts Oracle. Both Barbs fortify.

Turn 4 : 2800 BC: Not much to report

IBT: Worker finishes chop, Barb stands on BG SW of Edirne. Istanbul grows to pop 3.

Turn 5 : 2750 BC: Worker Roads, MM all sheep to Istanbul, Edirne uses forest (still grow in 1), Taxes to 0.9.1.

IBT: Barb fortifies, Edirne grows to 2,

Turn 6 : 2710 BC: Change Edirne to Archer

IBT: Barbs leave again Istanbul Granary -> Worker Erdirne builds Archer -> Rax

Turn 7 : 2670 BC: Archer (William Tell) heads west after barbs and spots Barb Camp. Worker Irrigates Plain.

IBT: More barbs show up in east.

Turn 8 : 2630 BC: William Tell kills barb but red-lines

IBT: Istanbul builds Worker -> Settler.

Turn 9 : 2590 BC: Tell Fortifies, Worker starts irrigate south of Istanbul.

IBT: William Tell kills barb. Zulu start Oracle.

Turn 10 : 2550 BC: Worker moves to help other one complete irrigation this turn in case we have to run from barbs.

After Action Report
The barbs are everywhere and they are keeping us from improving the necessary squares at Edirne.
I suggest that after he Heals William Tell should head back to Edirne to cover workers while they improve some tiles so Edirne can actually finish the Rax and start on Chariots.

I selected Alphabet as the research on the theory that we might be able to get a couple chariots built before we research HBR. That would allow a couple upgrades saving some shields.

The priorty should be put on getting the incense hooked up so we can get rid of lux spending for a bit.

 

[Whomp]

Should we just keep the order like this? It works for me.
Denyd UP
DocT
Whomp
Bed_head7
CKS
Jeffelammar

 

[jeffelammar]

Should we just keep the order like this? It works for me.
Denyd UP
DocT
Whomp
Bed_head7
CKS
Jeffelammar

Seems fine to me, unless you and Doc Tsiolkovski want to switch. Either way Denyd is up and should be back from his family expedition

Note on Istanbul. At the moment it is expensive to be at size 4, It may be worth doing some 5 or 6 turn cycles there. You could share the 3rd sheep with Edirne and crank out a couple extra military units to try to take care of the barbs. They are more than a mere PITA.

 

[Whomp]

I think being between DocT and B-H makes sense.

 

[denyd]

Ok, I got it and will play tonight - It looks as though someone/thing popped the hut in the mountains SE of Istantbul and got barbarians.

From the looks of it the plan is:

1. Finish barracks in Edrine and start a chariot
2. Finish settler in Istanbul and start another
3. Move Settler (with spearman escort) to red dot to build 3rd city (will disperse barb camp in founding)
4. Start a barracks in third city (???)
5. Once William Tell heals send him after more barbarians
6. Move workers to connect horses

Anything I missed?

What about research? Alphabet should complete during my set, what's next?

 

[jeffelammar]

Sounds about right.

One warning: We are short on escorts right now, so you might need to slow Istanbul's growth down for a couple turns to pop out another troop so we can start subduing the barbs.

 

[Whomp]

After alpha I'd think IW would make sense with all the barbs around unless we head towards MMing

 

[denyd]

The SAVE

Turn 0 – 2550 BC – Nothing to change

IBT: Barbarian warrior approaches workers

Turn 1 – 2510 BC – Tell heading NE work on non-mountain BW – Workers retreat to Istanbul

IBT: BW pillages road to Edrine – Istanbul to size 4

Turn 2 – 2470 BC – Tell N to intercept BW – Workers move to horse – luxury rate to 30%

IBT: Istanbul builds a settler starts a spearman

Turn 3 – 2430 BC – Tell (3/3) kills BW – Workers connect horses – Settler waits – Slider back to 1-9-0

IBT: ZZZ

Turn 4 – 2390 BC – Settler and Spearman (Ajax) moving to red dot – Tell to Istanbul – workers move to re-connect Edrine

IBT: Istanbul to size 3

Turn 5 – 2350 BC – Tell waiting in Istanbul – Workers connect Edrine – Ajax & Settler move next to red dot spot – Luxury rate to 10%

IBT: ZZZ

Turn 6 – 2310 BC – Tell waiting in Istanbul – Settler & Ajax reach spot – Workers move to incense – Drop research to 80% with no change on completion

IBT; Ajax (3/4) defends against a pair of BW and promotes to veteran – Istanbul builds a spearman starts a settler

Turn 7 – 2270 BC - Achilles (spearman) MP in Istanbul – Workers start road to incense – Settler founds Bursa and disperses a pair of barbarian villages (+50g) – Bursa starts a worker – Ajax MP in Bursa – Tell goes barbarian hunting

IBT: Ajax (4/4) defends against a BW – Istanbul to size 4

Turn 8 – 2230 BC – Tell heading east – Luxury rate to 30%

IBT: Incense is connected – Yellow border (Zulu?) appears to NE across the water

Turn 9 – 2190 BC – Tell NE finds a BV & a BW – Workers move to connect Bursa – Slider to 3-6-1 with Alphabet due next turn and a luxury connected

IBT: Ajax (2/5) defends against BW and promotes – Discover Alphabet research Iron Working with slider at 0-9-1 due in 17 – Indians starts Colossus

Turn 10 – 2150 BC – Tell (3/3) kills a BW in the BV – Workers start road to Bursa

A settler is due in Istanbul next turn and barracks in Edrine in 3 – Bursa will be connected in 2 turns - I think we should head for the Spices with the next settler as a pair of luxuries will really help the city growth – Bursa is going to be a high food city and I thought workers would be a good choice, still time to change – There are still 2 BW in the BV for Tell to kill

 

[jeffelammar]

Damn we are the quiet crew here. 11 hours and nobody posted.

@denyd - but where's the screenie? - I can't help it, I like seeing the pretty pictures

I agree with the next city being a spice city. I would found on the spice, but if would not fight too hard if someone wanted to put it on the hills next to the spice.

Once we have IW, I suggest that we go for Writing. We'll have defense and offense covered, so writing makes the most sense to me since I don't think we'll need the Catapults quite yet.

Any report on the current tech level of the Zulu/Indians?


Silly Note indicating my foolishness: I just spent 5 mins trying to figure out what BV stood for. I always think of them as encampments instead of villages.

 

[jeffelammar]

Roster Reminder

Denyd          << Just Played 
Whomp        << Up
DocT            << On deck
Bed_head7     << Having computer/storm issues. Hopefully will be able to play.
CKS
Jeffelammar

I went ahead and switched Whomp and DocT based on earlier converstions. Hopefully we can just keep this order the rest of the way.

@bed_head - Are you recovered from the storm? Is the new computer on the way?

 

[Whomp]

Good point Jeff. Most of us don't have enough AW experience to wing it.
At least I know I don't.

Here's the way I see the order of teching.
IW--Iron seems to be one of the most important AW needs.
Writing--opens doors
Map making--we'll need lots of boats from everything I've seen in AW arch games.
Math--Cats. I would think when we research this landings will start happening.
Lit--Libraries. We will be doing our own research so we don't want to get too far behind the curve.
I'd think planting on a lux makes a great deal of sense to avoid pillagers.
Does it also make sense that another of our core cities is a coastal one for ships?

I will play tonight as long as I have a plan.

 

[denyd]

From memory, both Zulu & Indians are up Mystisicm and one (I think Zulu) has writing.

We just started IW, so a change now would not waste much. It's about a 16 turn cycle. We've got about 90g with a small minus gpt with 90% research.

Unless we manage to clean up the barbarians soon, planting on the spices is probably the better choice to prevent pillaging, but I agree the hill not a bad spot either. The only gating factor would be access to the river, as long as both have access, then either spot is ok with me.

This is the best I could do for a picture with paint (next time I try to remember to include a screenie).

 

[denyd]

I think after the spices city is founded we should probably plant a couple of cities to the east to prevent future barbarians. Also those will likely be coastal cities that can start with a barracks, then swords and finally galleys when we are ready for invasions.

For Whomp's turn set, he won't have to worry about research as the current eta is 16 turns. Plant a city on/near the spices and connect it. Clean out the eastern barbarians. Get another settler from Istanbul. Workers from Bursa. Edrine will be finishing the barracks soon. Do we build archers, warriors, chariots or spearmen? Anything else?

 

[jeffelammar]

For Whomp's turn set, he won't have to worry about research as the current eta is 16 turns. Plant a city on/near the spices and connect it. Clean out the eastern barbarians. Get another settler from Istanbul. Workers from Bursa. Edrine will be finishing the barracks soon. Do we build archers, warriors, chariots or spearmen? Anything else?

I agree with this. My take would be chariots and spearmen. Until we discover IW, we don't know if we will have iron available. We know we have horses, so I'd build the units that have a definate upgrade path. If we can't get Iron, then Warriors would backfire in a big way.

The mountains in the west make a great natural barrier if we need it, did we manage to find out what is on the other side?

One thing. Planting the city on the spices will bring the goats into our cultural boundaries, but on the hills will not. Getting the goats in will give us another 2f 2s square to work in Edrine, Bursa or the new city. Between that and the unpillagability, I would rather go there than the hills. The goats can't be improved in despotism except for a road.

If we do decide that we want the defensive position of the hill, then we can bring it in with a later city, but I think the advantages of being on the spices outweigh the disadvantages.