SGOTM8 - Ivan

[AdrianE]

The barb that killed my scout came from that mountain peninsula. There must be a barb camp there. We need to send a archer and a spear there to eliminate it.

NY should switch to a archer as Ivan suggested.

We need to push settlers north ASAP. We need territory there. However there is a barb camp that we need to deal with. That requires another archer spear pair.

We need to build a few workers now.

If we have no iron then its cats, archers and spears. The sooner we get going the better!

 

[Gyathaar]

I don't think Gyaanthar wanted to make the early game easy!

Whatever gave you that idea?

Putting horses on the other side of the straight was just mean though.

oh.. that..

 

[King Alexander]

@Adrian: for cats we need to research Mathematics, but we have time until our attack: at least, we could take on China without them, but for Greece we'll need them.

We have to explore the S mountains, that's for sure. So, just build the archer in NY, and after that workers to help improve our cities and road through the jungle/mountains. Better to also have a spear nearby, when we'll go to connect the dyes-city, because of barbs.

We could delay a bit more to build library/units out of Washington, as we'll go for 40-turn Republic(we have time to build it), so we can built 2(or 3) more settlers. NY hasn't enough shields to build settlers quickly, if we want to settle N asap: what do you think?

 

[King Alexander]

@Gyathaar: -- not all players are at your level, you know...

 

[conehead234]

Preturn- Change Washington to library, Send warrior from boston to washington for MP. Change New York to settler.
IT- Barb Horse dies attacking New York. Barb horse appears in the southern mountians. Learn Philosophy, set to CoL.
Turn 1- Nada
IT-Washington grows
Turn 2- settler in New York due next turn, MM cities.
IT-Barb horse dies at Phili. New York, settler->worker. Boston Library->barracks. Atlanta warrior->warrior.
Turn 3- Wake everyone in New York and send them north.
IT-Chicago Warrior->warrior. Seattle warrior->library.
Turn 4- Send warrior into Southern mountains. Fortify 2 spear and settler pair because of barbs.
IT-Our spear wins flawlessly against the barb. Japan builds the Oracle.
Turn 5- Continue to move settler pair north and warrior south. Shuffle MP around.
IT-New York Worker->worker. Phili riots, oops.
Turn 6-Greece has CoL, but won't trade it.
IT-Washington Library->barracks.
Turn 7-movements.
IT-Atlanta warrior->warrior.
Turn 8- Find the end of the southern mountians and there is no iron, but a barb camp.
IT-nada
Turn 9-Move dye settlers into place but misclick with the escorts and they go in the wrong direction. Hope no barbs come.
IT-New York worker->library.
Turn 10-Settle San Francisco.

I would like to play 10 more turns tomorrow, but I will stop here at 1000 BC for discussion.

 

[nerovats]

Why build warriors when we won't get iron for a while.
Probably should keep some of the warriors in the mountains after crearing the barb camp to prevent new ones.

Looking good otherwise I think.

 

[I. Larkin]

1) good progress, but you could have 30% lux.
If Washington works at lake and have 60% Sci 30% Lux it can stay until 9.
2) We may trade CoL now for Phylosophy+gold. Trade also WM.
3) We may cansel MA and make peace with china. They will not give us any City, I am affraid, but will give Worker+Gold.
4) I recomend Mathematics first. than Republic at full speed or 40 turn gambit.
5) Boston needs granary first (and do not need barracks, it is our wonder City), Atlanta- barrakcs.

 

[King Alexander]

As Ivan said:
First, trade with Greece for CoL + WM and give exactly Philosophy + WM + 17g.

Second, I think, we should cansel the MA(first) and make peace(as Ivan said), demanding: Worker + 47g + WM.

Yes, Boston could benefit from the granary.

WHEN do we start the pre-built? Once we get Republic?

I'd continue to build 2 more workers out of NY, to go and road towards the gesm and to make 2 colonies(1 for us and to trade, right?). I'd also made sure to have 1 warrior standing at the mountains so no new barbs will appear(as nerovats said). 1 more warrior should go at the N mountain(we can't see 1 mountain) to prevent new barb huts.

So, we have NO Iron and NO horses: GREAT!

1) Either, we should timely sign a RoP with Greece, place 2 spears on their Iron and when the RoP ends(and maybe Greece asks to leave once the RoP ended), we should declare and pillage it(or if Greece just asks but not threatens with war, we should declare next turn). -- is this going to spoil our reputation or not(first or second option)?
2) We could also sign MA with China against Greece, but we'd have to travel far away: better to have our force standing nearby.
3) Another option is to make a quick war with China to capture it's 2 jungle cities(or 3 if it settles more), so we're closer to Greece. Then, we can sign MA with China against Greece OR, if China refuses, sign MPP, declare on Greece and throw have a unit as a bait to be killed by Greece so China also declares.
4) The sooner we attack Greece(or China), the better for us, while they'll be busy trying to settle anything. If we build barracks and not libraries in the remaining cities, we can keep producing archers(all the time while we're waiting for Republic), and start making some damage(few cities at a time). Maybe it's better this way. Greece won't have Iron for some time yet(border expansion and it needs to connect the Iron).

In any case, if we attack later, an Iron pillage would REALLY help us.

I hope, we'll think a good plan.

Keep in mind that we'd need MANY archers to fight Greece, and the Republic won't help us with the unit support, but, what can we do? Just lower science? We can always disband some of our units once the war is over.

 

[I. Larkin]

"WHEN do we start the pre-built? Once we get Republic? "
We will reseach math (next) and check how long will take to research construction. Say M turns.
Then we calculate how long GW will take in Boston. Say N turns. (Build Granry there, not barracks).
Then we will research Republic. Before (N-M) of end research of the Republic we will start to prebuild Greate wall.
Is it clear?

 

[nerovats]

I think we should at least try to keep greece and china fight each other, so they'll both be weakend by the time we get our troops up. It agree with attacking china first to get closer. Could switch sides when we've got the jungle cities, and greece is getting to strong.

 

[I. Larkin]

I think we should at least try to keep greece and china fight each other, so they'll both be weakend by the time we get our troops up. It agree with attacking china first to get closer. Could switch sides when we've got the jungle cities, and greece is getting to strong.

I don't think it is good strategy: We want strong Grees as trade/research partner.
I think better cansel alliance and eleminate china at next war.

 

[conehead234]

I continued to build warriors because we need MP, I may have gotten all the cities covered with MP now, so maybe we can switch them to something else. We need luxuries, I could try to eliminate that barb camp in the south and then colonize the gems. The dyes will take longer to connect. What if we try to sneak a settler up to the iron? Or we could build a force of archers and try to win a war of attrition against greece. We need catapults also for this, but they cannot reach the front untill we build a road thru the jungle and mountains.

 

[King Alexander]

IMHO, taking Greece out only with archers, will leave us far behind on the tech race, and without major infrastructure on our cities. On the other hand, if we waited to import Iron from another civ, we'll wait for a long time, and Greece will have, at least, knights and muskets by then, so swords won't do major damage(if at all).

Do we have a chance of sneaking a settle near the Iron, as conehead suggested? We should try it, as we've got nothing to lose but only gain. As for the horses, we can take on China, and secure them. IMHO, we need to try this option.

We definetly need to connect the gems and the dyes, to let our cities to grow more: they're already "maxed" their potential on size 6-7, without any luxuries. This hurts us a lot.

Yes, Greece will help us on research, but the sooner we control all of our island, the more time we'll have to improve the land, build infrastructure and units as well as the FP, and be ready to do major damage by the time we get helicopters. Only our core won't be enough to take on all the world: our core doesn't even have enough shield-tiles to work...(we need a second core).

Greece won't be exterminated anyway, since it'll also settle the small islands: we could always gift them to a new age, so we trade for their free tech.

Anyway, we need first to capture those Chinese jungle-cities, so we get closer to both of our "friends".

 

[AdrianE]

Suggestions

Seattle should be working both Bonus grasslands . Chicago just loses the shield to corruption. Seattle's library is an important build. That will pop the hut for us.

Chicago and Atlanta both need to be switched to workers. We don't need more regular warriors.

Boston might as well work the lake for the extra gold. The barracks is done in 1 anyway. Boston looks like a good spot for our GW prebuild.

Washington should be able to produce 10spt. That number is very good for efficient production.

We need 2 warriors on the peninsula to stop barbs from reappearing. We should push roads to the gems and dyes asap. Thats what the 2 new workers would be for. After Gems are hooked up Philadelphia will need the mountain/goats square mined and roaded. That will be a powerful square for us.


We should build at least 2 more cities on the peninsula. One near the dyes south of Xiajian and one in the hills west of Xiajian. They can serve as our forward bases.

Trading Philosophy to Greece only saves us 2 turns (about 40 g of research). Is that worth it?

 

[King Alexander]

Seattle should be working both Bonus grasslands . Chicago just loses the shield to corruption. Seattle's library is an important build. That will pop the hut for us.

Very good thinking, Adrian! We might get another free tech, who knows? We should do it asap.

Chicago and Atlanta both need to be switched to workers. We don't need more regular warriors.

We need to improve the land faster, and those extra workers will be extra-valuable on clearing the jungle, later on.

We should build at least 2 more cities on the peninsula. One near the dyes south of Xiajian and one in the hills west of Xiajian. They can serve as our forward bases.

If we can make it, why not: I'd prefer us, though, to make an effort for the Iron, first.

Trading Philosophy to Greece only saves us 2 turns (about 40 g of research). Is that worth it?

I think, it's too late for that now, as conehead will hprobably have traded, as we previously had suggested/decided.

***FP in Boston: I think, we SHOULD get the FP in Boston built NOW! It will have finished before we are a Republic, and will help us get the GW much faster, as well as Copernicus, later on(with irrigated grassland and mined mountains, which can start doing so, once we connect the gems and dyes: it'll speed both GW and Copernicus).
In fact, I think we should start mining/roading a mountain near Boston, so we help the FP itself to finish sooner and start the pre-build even earlier, rather than waste 1 citizen to work the lake: we can always micromanage again to work another tile when the city will grow, or EVEN join a couple of workers to speed things up.
Another reason for building the FP, is to reduce the corruption on the rest of the core and have a boost in our income as well: we can always make a Palace jump to the Greece area, later on, or just build the Palace there with a Great Leader.
IMHO, we have nothing to lose, but only to gain if we build the FP now: it'll help as a lot.

 

[conehead234]

I haven't started the last 10 turns yet, so you can still send in suggestions.

 

[conehead234]

Preturn-MM Cities. Peace with China, get worker, 47 gold, and WM.
IT- Boston Barracks->FP.
Turn 1-nada, MM cities
IT-CoL->Republic (32). Washington Rax->Settler. Atlanta Worker->worker.
Turn 2-nada
IT-nada
Turn 3-Trade WM to alex for Wm and 7 gold.
IT- Chicago worker->worker.
Turn 4-Trade for china and greece WM.
IT-kill 2 barb horses
Turn 5-trade wms again.
IT- Washington settler->spear.
Turn 6-Begin roading toward gems. Kill barb camp in southern mountians with warrior. Trade WMs.
IT-Atlanta worker->library.
Turn 7-trade WMs, Greece has HBR. Phili going to riot, so hire tax collector.
IT-nada
Turn 8-movements
IT-washington spear->spear.
Turn 9-Roading
IT-San Fran worker->worker.
Turn 10-roading, move settler pair.

Gems will be hooked up next turn.
The settler pair north of new york could try to grab the greek iron, or it could settle another city near the dyes. I would perfer the iron.
3 workers are on the way to hook up hte dyes, make sure they have escorts.

 

[King Alexander]

Things begin to look better with the upcoming connection of the dyes(we already have a colony, it just needs to be connected).

Some suggestions:

1) The goats should be worked by Boston(just "abandon" working a simple grassland in Boston, and not a BG), so we require less time to finish the FP(it drops from 25 to 21 turns, and when the city will grow, the time will drop more).

Washington doesn't need the goats, anymore, as it has plenty of food(it could always work a mined plains and later on the most western forest: the eastern forest should be worked by Boston, later on, but before that, also mine 1 more grassland for Boston to work first so the city can grow more. It also isn't a bad idea to road the forests when we'll work them, as they'll give us more gold we badly need).

I'm very happy that we begun building the FP in Boston: it already has 2 shields corrupted(out of 8), and it's still size 5, so that speaks volumes about how badly we need the FP there: it'll take forever to finish the GW, otherwise. Nevermind the fact that ALL of our core will be helped by the FP.

IMHO, we should begin the palace pre-build as soon as the FP is completed, so we build the GW almost immediately and without any delay after we'll learn Construction: if the pre-build finishes sooner than we get Construction, just work non BG's and the lake tile.

2) Seattle: in about 10 turns, after we finished the library and the borders have expanded, maybe we'll get 1 last free tech: theoretically, we have minimum chances of getting a settler(!), but... we'll see. Probably we'll gain a tech/map/gold.

3) Philadelphia: it should work the mined grassland the worker roads, to build the library in 10 turns(instead of 15).
Chicago could work Philie's roaded tile, instead(to get the gold. the worker should mine it next), and, in my opinion, Chicago should built 3 more warriors: 1 warrior for Philie(so the city can grow) and 1 warrior for itself, and 1 warrior for Seattle(unless, we build the warriors/spears from Washington: probably it'd better that way, so we have 1 more worker out of Chicago to improve the land and to JOIN Boston after some turns, so we speed things up).

The workers should begin mining/roading the goat-mountain after they finish connecting the colony.

Question: Can Philadelphia, Seattle and Chicago remain at size 6 with 1 MP and the gems that we'll connect? If so, we don't need other MP's, but then again, maybe we should replace the warriors with spears from Washington, as the previous cities are coastal, and we need some defence(who knows if someone will try to unload something? Greece can't be trusted forever).

4) Dilemma: I vote to try and go for the Iron. It's more important for us, than another city at the jungle. It's good that Greece and China still are at war with eachother, so Greece hasn't build a culture improvement there.

If we succeed, we should settle right at the wines, giving us 1 more luxury: the city should be connected via a HARBOR(it's sooner this way, rather than roading all the jungle, and also road Greek tiles!).

What I propose: we need EXACTLY 20 turns(on auto) to reach the wines with the NY's warrior; this means, we'll need the same turns(or even 19 turns) to reach there with the settler/spear combo.
I suggest to sign a RoP with Greece(curently wanting us to pay 27g, with bargain), but better to sign RoP next turn(or after some turns, anyway), because we could face some "problems" reaching the destination IN TIME: barbs(it'd be good if we also had 1 more escort), Chinese and Greek units could be standing at the tiles our settler needs to pass while the RoP still lasts(we could always sign another RoP, but why pay again?).

I know that, maybe, after all the effort, we may lose the Iron, but IMHO, we certainly have to try getting it: it's the ONLY Iron in our island.

5) We could also try to settle towards Xinjang, S of the city(to get more dyes) and also to the hills N of the city, to control more land, and to have support for more units(especially after we're a Republic).

P.S.: I know that my post is very long, but I wanted to say my thoughts!

 

[King Alexander]

Another thing that I forgot to mention(I had it in my mind), but it's important: set the dyes city to a library or temple, because we'll need to expand our borders to claim the dyes: we'll hurry it when we get Republic(better to not make another colony, as we need the workers).

I think, we should just road towards the dyes, first: we can clear the jungle later(dyes are more important at this point).

Iron City: I don't remember well now, if we can build a harbor there, but it any case, it's better to own the Iron(we can road towards it, afterwards, if we can't build a harbor). Greece is busy at the moment building military, and maybe we'll be lucky to claim the Iron, even if the war stops, as it'd need some time to build a temple/library at the nearby cities... we can only hope.

 

[King Alexander]

Happy birthday, nerovats!

AlanH mentioned it at the maintenance thread.