SGOTM8 - Ivan

nerovats said:
I don´t understand how you managed to get only one settler out in 20 turns, Can´t tell form the log what you spend the other turns on. You should have been able to get a first settler on turn 6, 7 the latest then every 4 and 5 turns. I expect you used washington for the 2 workers? But then still...?
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Hmm..., now that you mention it nerovats(I had forgot it completely), what happened Ivan? Of course, you built those 2 workers(3 total now), and maybe, some units? Why? You also had problems with the barbs and built some more warriors?

Maybe, the 2 workers mean we're going after the Pyramids? Both of them are helping city #1, so, it's the only way I can explain it.

If we're serious about the Pyramids, after the archer, maybe we should first chop the other 2 forests for a granary(while mining each tile after the chops, of course)? It'll speed things up.

The strange thing with city #1 is that it was settled 5 turns ago, at your 15th turn(grows in 5)?
nerovats said:
Hard to tell with no picture but sounds like we need units fast. If Greece takes out the chinese the probably be twice our size before we get to them, so we should take them on as quickly as possible. Maybe we should team up with china NOW and hope greece will send some units down. Get some units into those mountains as KA suggested. Without horses and iron we´ll need a very good strat to take Greece on, even with Chinese help.
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I just suggested to block the mountains with a couple of spears, standing nearby(only if we saw Greece coming for us), as it's impossible to fight hoplites(or even swords) in the mountains, with the logic that, once Hoplites passed the mountains, they'd pillage everything and we'd need 2-3 archers to take out one of them.

That strategy could work in two ways: 1) only defend on the mountains(which, while ok, we wouldn't hurt Greece at all), and 2) it could be part of an attack plan(hurt Greece, but avoid to get threatened/pillaged).

Thing is, Greece will have Iron soon(once Corinth[?] expands it's borders), and if it defeats China, it'll also have horses, and probably is on a Golden Age.
A war with them would be good BUT only if we could make some damage on them: As things are, we cannot do that; we certainly need Iron and/or horses(swords would be better on taking on the Hoplites, although, we'd need some of them, and Hoplites are a cheap unit, so Greece would pump new ones soon--- Hoplites: 20 shields, swords: 30).

I'm not saying that it's completely impossible to some damage with archers, but we'd really need MANY of them. Maybe we should think about it, to start making plans for an attack, once we settle the space around the capital, build barracks, and pump out archers?

P.S.: we're running negative gpt(-1) and we have 10( although, I'll lower the lux once the settler is made). Maybe, we can't learn Literature in 10 turns, especially if we build the 2 archers from NY and Boston(I'll probably lower the science rate, if we're in danger of loosing workers, once around 0/1 g). Thoughts?
 
nerovats said:
1) I don´t understand how you managed to get only one settler out in 20 turns, Can´t tell form the log what you spend the other turns on. You should have been able to get a first settler on turn 6, 7 the latest then every 4 and 5 turns. I expect you used washington for the 2 workers? But then still...?

2) Hard to tell with no picture but sounds like we need units fast. If Greece takes out the chinese the probably be twice our size before we get to them, so we should take them on as quickly as possible. Maybe we should team up with china NOW and hope greece will send some units down. Get some units into those mountains as KA suggested. Without horses and iron we´ll need a very good strat to take Greece on, even with Chinese help.
Click to expand...
1) I had 10 (9) turns to Granary left from Adrian. Next Settler had taken 4 turns. 2 workers took 4 turns. We'll get next in 2 turn, but may at 1 (in expense of food).
2) I belive, that we manage to deal with Greeks. (They have horse already, under Thermophyle). However, things depend on Hosebackriding. Greeks have GA now.
I think the only we can do to drive scout to protect China.
 
So, it would be unwise to militarily help China right now, right? We can prepare later for Greece.
We could try to help China with the scout, but I doubt it'll help them much, especially as Greece has it's Golden Age. Let's hope, they'll sign peace soon.

I again suggest to irrigate 1 more plain for Washigton to work: it'll give us 1 more shield(rather working the lake).
 
You can't buy or trade eqWorkers. Those are special workers. The Chinese must have gotton 2eq Workers at start. It is noted in the GOTM mods.

Greece will be in its golden age. I think thats good as they have too few cities to make use of it.
 
King Alexander said:
1)Hmm..., now that you mention it nerovats(I had forgot it completely), what happened Ivan? Of course, you built those 2 workers(3 total now), and maybe, some units? Why? You also had problems with the barbs and built some more warriors?

2) Maybe, the 2 workers mean we're going after the Pyramids? Both of them are helping city #1, so, it's the only way I can explain it.

If we're serious about the Pyramids, after the archer, maybe we should first chop the other 2 forests for a granary(while mining each tile after the chops, of course)? It'll speed things up.

3) The strange thing with city #1 is that it was settled 5 turns ago, at your 15th turn(grows in 5)?

4) I just suggested to block the mountains with a couple of spears, standing nearby(only if we saw Greece coming for us), as it's impossible to fight hoplites(or even swords) in the mountains, with the logic that, once Hoplites passed the mountains, they'd pillage everything and we'd need 2-3 archers to take out one of them.

5) That strategy could work in two ways: 1) only defend on the mountains(which, while ok, we wouldn't hurt Greece at all), and 2) it could be part of an attack plan(hurt Greece, but avoid to get threatened/pillaged).

6) Thing is, Greece will have Iron soon(once Corinth[?] expands it's borders), and if it defeats China, it'll also have horses, and probably is on a Golden Age.
A war with them would be good BUT only if we could make some damage on them: As things are, we cannot do that; we certainly need Iron and/or horses(swords would be better on taking on the Hoplites, although, we'd need some of them, and Hoplites are a cheap unit, so Greece would pump new ones soon--- Hoplites: 20 shields, swords: 30).

I'm not saying that it's completely impossible to some damage with archers, but we'd really need MANY of them. Maybe we should think about it, to start making plans for an attack, once we settle the space around the capital, build barracks, and pump out archers?

7) P.S.: we're running negative gpt(-1) and we have 10( although, I'll lower the lux once the settler is made). Maybe, we can't learn Literature in 10 turns, especially if we build the 2 archers from NY and Boston(I'll probably lower the science rate, if we're in danger of loosing workers, once around 0/1 g). Thoughts?
Click to expand...
1-3) I explained already: 9+4=13 turns left before I got settler. (7 turns ago) 4 turns - workers. Whats wrong? King Alex, be careful and do not allowed Washington grow above size 6. When we'll stop SF?
2) one worker may continue Boston forest cut: reg spear, archer, then Libruary. another will improve wash-philadelphia area, third NY-wash area.
4) i think we are safe untill greek's knights. I'd take a risk and settle near dyce at future.
5-6) It will be nice to capture canton to get horses and be nice with Greece. i hope they will be our research partner at MA. I think GW better then pyramyds. Now we must focus on good land development.
7) we may "prebuild" Libruary at NY and Boston now, actually. There is no harm do delay 1-2 turns with Literature. We may also collect some money before first Lib will be build (next research line Phil, CoL, Republic)
 
Re buying workers:

The first workers, and workers you pop from huts, are called eqWorkers. They operate like real workers but they are modified to prevent you buying them. This is standard in GOTM and SGOTM because the price of standard workers is very low in vanilla - only 25-30 gold each, and buying the AI's first workers can be so unbalancing as to be considered an exploit.

It's possible, therefore, that you saw two eqWorkers move to Beijing (one their original worker, the other a popped one). KA's explanation may also apply to one or both of them, of course.

[EDIT] Sorry, Adrian. You got there first. I must read the thread more carefully before replying :blush:
 
@Gyathaar: Couldn't remember whether they had one or two. Thanks.
 
Basically what we need to do now is build lots of settlers and fill in the first ring of our core. We should push north to the dyes as well. We need a lux or two badly. 3 workers should be adequate for the next 10 turns. As we are industrious we don't need as many as a non-industrious civ.

To deal with the Greeks requires catapults and that requires a road north. We might have to use cats, longbows and spears against them. That will be an ugly fight. I think we take China first (or what's left of them). I take it that canton has horses. That would be a priority acquisition for us. We could get that with archers/spears.

Turn sets should be 10 max from now on.
 
AdrianE said:
1)Basically what we need to do now is build lots of settlers and fill in the first ring of our core. We should push north to the dyes as well. We need a lux or two badly. 3 workers should be adequate for the next 10 turns. As we are industrious we don't need as many as a non-industrious civ.

To deal with the Greeks requires catapults and that requires a road north. We might have to use cats, longbows and spears against them. That will be an ugly fight. I think we take China first (or what's left of them). I take it that canton has horses. That would be a priority acquisition for us. We could get that with archers/spears.

3)Turn sets should be 10 max from now on.
Click to expand...
Good plan. lots=3 settlers for inner core. May be next we let capital grow?
2)I think we'll finish china and will try stay in peace with greeks as long as possible.
Do not forget your idea to get overseas contacts via greeks I even hope' that they will fight overseas for us. Let focus on research, not military. Libs our priority.
3) I think any can chose 10-20 turns for his choise.
 
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Ivan_SG008_BC1500_01.SAV

1725BC (1)
Attack 2hp barb with regular warrior on grassland, we lose.

1700BC (2)
Washington: settler --> settler.

1675BC (3)
China settle 1 more city. Barb warrior moves next to Boston, attack with Elite warrior from Washington and win.

1650BC (4)

1625BC (5)
Boston: spear --> barracks.

1600BC (6)
Find Philadephia. 1 barb horse kills our fortified warrior at the N mountain.
Greece has a worker for sale, but we only have 6g: I decide to trade WM for their worker


1575BC (7)
Washington: settler --> settler. Greece knows Map Making, we can't trade. China now has 3 cities(4 with capital).

1550BC (8)
A barb horse approaches NY from N.

1525BC (9)
Barb horse moves inside NY, a second horse approaches again from N: I'd attack with the archer, but he'd be open for attack at the next turn.

1500BC (10)
Find Atlanta. Attack 1 barb horse(2hp) with aracher at NY, we lose without making ANY damage: now there're 2 horse that'll attack next turn... WHAT a LACK!

We learn Literature, begin Philosophy. We can't trade with Greece, despite that we have Lit and Mysticism. Greece razed 1 Chinese city(Chinna down to 3 cities total). Anyway, I'll stop for suggestions.

I'd like to play some more turns, but it's ok if not: the turns pass quickly.

Edit: I'd like us to build a second granary, at NY, but the barbs coming make our life difficult.
 
@conehead: If you want and can play, just take the game(10 more turns isn't much anyway, at the Ancient Ages). You could play 10 or 20 turns for the first round, as Ivan said.
 
I am currently in a war with my computer trying to get rid off a couple viruses. My other computer does not have civ on it, can I someone post a screenshot because I can not access the save now. I hope to have to viruses gone by tonight.
 
Here's a pic

It doesn't look very clear, but I don't know what else to do: sometimes, I manage to upload a picture to CFC, but I can NEVER find it on the upload page; don't know what's going on.
 
@conehead: to escort the next settler, you could draw the warrior guarding Boston(it isn't in immediate danger of anything); you could, of course, change the production to a spear, made next turn, but the shields of the forest(workers also finish next turn) would be wasted, unless, we really want to waste and stop 1 worker(of the 2) from the forest.
You decide, but personally, I'd take the warrior.

Boston will soon have barracks(unless we change it to a library), and it should produce some spears to protect NY(a lot of barbs are coming from the camp in the N mountains) and Philie(it's blocking the S mountains).

I'd really like us to have a second granary in NY, to produce workers: we want to develop the land fast, and we have lots of mountains to road, and jungle to clear(I asuume, we'll try to grab the dyes: that should be a target for us, immediately after the last 2 cities on our core are founded).

As of a second core, we'll need to fight either Greece or China, so, it can wait for a while.
 
KIng-Alex, when replying there´s a manage attachement button in the addiotional options part. I always use this to upload files, never had any problems with it. And stop building settlers if you are finding cities all over the place ;)

I second the second granary, will need to fortify NY first. It think we need a couple of baracks before building libs, to get those barbs under control.
 
1)We must attack barbs NOW. (If archer lost, we have good chance).
2)We may trade Mmking+WM for MA vs China, Lit, Misticizm.
3) Send spear from Atlanta to NY. All Cities must build warriors. Atlanta as well.
4) We have to finish my dot map (8 and 4).

I vote against second granary. NY needs Library, walls and barracks. Washington may build workers if we need.

Boston good City to build GW. It is most distant City frome batellfields.
It was bad a idea to build barracks at Boston. We may fight with regs.

If conehead will not finish his computer K-A may continue few turns.
 
Ok, I'll play a few more turns.

As for attacking the barbs NOW, only the spear is available to attack, and the barb horses are 2(not 1) but I'll go with your suggestions.
 
King Alexander said:
Ok, I'll play a few more turns.

As for attacking the barbs NOW, only the spear is available to attack, and the barb horses are 2(not 1) but I'll go with your suggestions.
Click to expand...
Wait until night, may be others will say smth.
Order in my list is important BTW. War with china dangerous, but Conehead good b/f commander. Place City 4 where it is. I belive we can go there without escort.
Placement of workers are very bad. We have to improve BG first, not forest.
(I do not mean stpo them now, but next thibk about future).
Micromanage Wash this way (the same growth, turns) to let boston, NY more.
 
>>SAVE<<

@Ivan: I already played, before I saw your post. Sorry!

Pre-turn:

Change Boston to Library, Philie NY and Atlanta to warrior. Attack with spear 1 barb horse and win. Send spear from Atlanta at NY.
Call Alex: I offer MA against China for Mysticism + Literature and he also gives Map Making + WM + TM(he has no gold).
So, we're at war with China now, at least until Greece signs a peace deal or 20 turns pass.

btw: now that we can trade for WM and TM with Greece, we should try to seel our map EVERY TURN, so we have more gold.

IBT
Barb horse attacks the spear at NY, we win and spear promotes to veteran.
We get 2 palace expansion.

1475BC (1)
-----

IBT
A barb horse approaches Philie.

1450BC (2)
Washington: settler --> settler.

1425BC (3)
Barb horse moves inside Philie(we have to fortify a spear in this mountain).

IBT
Barb horse attacks Elite warrior at Philie and loses.

1400BC (4)
We find Chicago.

1375BC (5)
-----

1350BCBC (6)
A Barb horse moves inside NY.

IBT
Barb horse loses.
China asks for peace, I refuse.

1325BC (7)
Washington: settler --> settler.

1300BC (8)
A barb horse moves inside Philie. I disband the scout, as a barb horse gets near him(he'll die next turn).

1275BC (9)
We find Seattle.
Barb horse loses.

IBT
We get the message for the Forbidden Palace.

1250BC (10)
A barb horse moves inside NY.

Summary
We have settled all of our core: we need a new dot map of where to settle next(towards the dyes). I think, we should settle first on the First Hill near the N mountains(if we want that city to have some food later on). Then, we can go for the dyes. This is, we need to escort our settlers with Spears from now on. Science down, we learn Philosophy next turn. I have lux at 40%: Washington needs 1 more warrior for MP, but it may be unnecessay, as NY can only keep it's citizens happy at 40%. Greece hadn't a single gold to trade for TM all this turns: check EVERY TURN. Greece's Golden Age must be over by now, and it seems like China will survive? When do we want to start our palace pre-build at Boston?(I changed it to libary because I had cut forests, but it'll built it in 3 turns).

China didn't send ANYTHING during my turns: soon(10 more turns) we can make peace SAFELY without having put ourselves to any danger.
 
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