SGOTM8 - Ivan

[AlanH]

Welcome to your game thread. Please use it and subscribe to it. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game here, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

The starting saves will become available on the SGOTM Progress and Results page on August 5, midnight, server local time.

Thanks go to Gyathaar for coming up with the variant and developing the map.

The variant is Hydrophobic Conquest. You are America, your goal is to conquer your archipelago world, and you are afraid of water.

The rules are simple:

1. You will build no boats. Seaborne units are all disabled for America.
3. You must win by Conquest. America must be the only civ standing at the end of your game.
4. Red and Gold Laurels will be awarded respectively to the members of the C3C and Classic teams achieving the fastest conquests.
5. PTW and Vanilla teams are not permitted to leader rush Great Wonders before 1000 BC in this game

Here's the start:

​

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - America
Opponents - Six, preselected
World size - 80 wide by 80 high. (Small)
Difficulty - Emperor
Landform - Archipelago
Barbarians - Raging

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Game mods:
- America can't build boats. The AI can.
- All victory conditions are available except Diplomatic and Spaceship.
- Settlers, workers, scouts, explorers, leaders, cruise missiles and tactical nukes can be loaded into helicopters.
- A side effect is AIs can load tactical nukes into any boat with transport capacity ... so beware
- Bombers have lethal sea bombard only (lethal land bombard removed)
- Cruise missiles, stealth bombers and F-15 have both lethal sea and land bombard.

Additional change:
- C3C will use the same contact and map trading rules as Classic. Contacts can be traded between two civs when one of them knows Writing. Maps can be traded between two civs when one of them knows MapMaking.

The SGOTM Mediterranean resources are included in this game. If you have played SGOTM 7 then you will be ready. If not you may need to download and unzip a small graphics mod pack. Vanilla/Mac players need to install the GOTM mods. The best way to achieve this is to use the relevant All-in-one GOTM Installer for your OS, linked in my signature.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game. Vanilla players in particular should understand the late-game equalisation modifications that we don't often have to worry about.

The GOTM Reference Thread.
SGOTM Reference Thread.

Notes:

A. The Classic (Play the World and vanilla 1.29) versions of Civ3 AND Conquests version 1.22 (C3C) are all supported in this game. Because of the different game play, Classic and C3C teams will play for separate awards.
B. All teams must play the sponsored variant.
C. You MUST play from the start file assigned to your team. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

 

[nerovats]

Checking in

As opening I suggest to move onto the dessert and take out that useless tile.
(move scout onto mountain first ofcourse).
If we meet someone on our island, we should keep him alive to get ships out and contact the other civs for us. It will be tough if can't trade with nobody.
Being american we should expand like crazy, it's our only benefit.

Do we want to adjust the roster to balance the most experienced players?

 

[King Alexander]

Checking in.

What nerovats suggested is interesting: keep the AI alive to make contacts for us. Of course, we could then point-stick the AI to give us some contacts and/or techs and at somepoint, clear our island from any "parasites" and control it...

Maybe we should build 1 more scout at the beginning? We could take advantage of it, going after as many goody huts as we can.

I also think, we should/must go after some Wonders(mainly, middle-ages and industrial), as we'll be sitting around and do nothing until helicopters are available. Why not having a benefit against the AI? With good pre-builds, we could certainly build some Wonders(especially Copernicus, Newtons, as they'll help us research faster, and maybe a Wonder that'll help us to lower the lux slider without building any churches, like Bach's and maybe Smith's). We could also go after US and ToE(the later should be a must).

 

[AdrianE]

Checking in. Hi guys.

I'm thinking that cash is king in this game. We will need it for fast research.

Research should be to literature ASAP so that we can build libraries to speed research.

If we have company on our island then we need to take most of their cities to build a second core.

There are a couple of ways for us to get off our starting island:
1) wait until advanced flight
2) gain cities through culture flip (unlikely)
3) gain cities on other islands through peace agreements

Once we have contacts we should set up an AI dogpile. Whichever civ is losing will eventually give up a small useless city in exchange for peace. We can then cash rush a barracks, harbour and then enough units to take over that island. We can repeat this a couple of times. We will need to be strong enough that the AI's will give up a city.

Keeping the AI's fighting is a must IMO.

The only thing with the starting position is to make sure we have a 4 turn settler factory in despotism. With 5 irrigated flood plains available we should be fine. Its the shields that might be a problem.

Adrian

 

[I. Larkin]

Hi. Nice to have all of you here. You actually wrote a good things. I offer conehead to be a team leader to repeat sgtom5 victory. Small problem might be with stupidg .
As far as I understand he have no experience at all. He did not reply to my pm yet. What do you think about an idea to play 15-20 turn at the beginign? Game will be longer than usual.
I will write more soon but I thing that nerovats opening looks good.

 

[conehead234]

Checking in.

Well I also think we should go scout to mountain. After that, we can decide where to settle. It looks like there is another delta up north, a possible second city sight.

We will need science, so we can race ahead and get advanced flight ASAP. It will take many helicopters to transfer a large enough army so we can take a city, hold it, and build an airport. But we can plan that later. Anyway, science will be key here, we need to maximize our gold and race to libraries, so we can get a tech lead.

Resources: I hope we have all resources we need. I know oil is a given because we need them for helicopters.

Wonders: We need to get the science ones. Sun Tzus and Pyrimands would be nice too, but I doubt we will get them.

 

[I. Larkin]

"If I posted all the strats I could think about there would not be much difference between the teams I expect "
I see three major strtegy and we must(wil) make a choise sometime before Mid age.
1) trivial: invest all money to Sci to get Helicopters ASAP
2) Arrange dog pils to get City at all Islands. Use Money to build Military there. Advance and win with Military traditions.
3) Go straight to Flight trying to get Cities at other Islands. Use traditional airports to transport Cavalery. Bombers will work instead of Artys.
4) The best, IMHO is combination of all 3. I'm affraid that we will need Helicopters to finish up.
Francly speaking I have no any special secrets that I mentioned at mantainens thread.
In general things depend on contacts and map layout. In general, as Adrian mentioned, we must be nice to AIs untill... He knows how to do it better.
B) Research. I think that Literature an then Republic is what we need first of all.
If we are not alone MMking may help to boost contacts via neibors.
C) Wonders and GA. F15 far away but we need GA at resonable time.
Our wonde are: Pyramids, Hgardens, GWall or at least Hoover (Industrial) and
Lighthouse, Coernicus or at least SETI (Expansionnist). At Emperor we need 1 from each list.
I think Copernicus is a must, but Hover may be too late.
Pyramids looks better, but they cost a lot...
May be GW better? (200 sch only). Newton and ToE are also good, but it depends will we finish at Flight or we'll need Helicopters. I against Bash, Smith, ets. It will take our research line "out". Also I am against Temple/Cathidrals K-A knows. For sucsessful demand we must have strong military.. for upgrade it must be horses/spears, not swordmans.
Do we have airbase?
I hope we may finish around 1600 AD if play right.

 

[I. Larkin]

Suppose stupidg will not appear.
roster may be
Adrian, Nerovats, Conehead, Ivan, King-Alex.
Research: 40 turn Alphabet then writing at full speed.

 

[King Alexander]

As opening I suggest to move onto the dessert and take out that useless tile.
(move scout onto mountain first ofcourse).

I think, moving to the desert tile is the right thing to do, if want to have more shields. We keep the sheep into radius, and we don't waste too many turns looking for a better place to settle.

Keeping the AI's fighting is a must IMO.

Very well said. Especially aim to dogpile the strongest AI's available.

Once we have contacts we should set up an AI dogpile. Whichever civ is losing will eventually give up a small useless city in exchange for peace. We can then cash rush a barracks, harbour and then enough units to take over that island. We can repeat this a couple of times. We will need to be strong enough that the AI's will give up a city.

This is an excellent idea, and we should seriously consider it.

We could also decide to build Colossus at some point for extra money throughout the game, if we have nothing better to do.

Of course, if the game is not on Monarch but on Emperor, things will be difficult to get some of the Wonders we want, as we can't build ships to attack(and weaken) the AI. On the military, we'll surely have to face Infantry by the time we learn Advanced Flight.
We'll see how the game goes, but we should not forget about the possibility to use some Tactical Nukes(and use them wisely), if the game continues well into the Modern Ages.

Well I also think we should go scout to mountain. After that, we can decide where to settle. It looks like there is another delta up north, a possible second city sight.

Maybe it'll be better if the first player posted a save after the scout goes on the mountain, so the hole Team can comment?

It will take many helicopters to transfer a large enough army so we can take a city, hold it, and build an airport. But we can plan that later.

If I'm not mistaken, helicopters can tansfer 6 units in this game, so, around 6 helicopters should be enough to attack even the strongest AI.

I think, our problem is to have MANY units available by the time we reach AF, and we must transger a good force the first time, because if the AI has fighters they'll intercept our helicopters the next time(unless, our helicopters are out of the fighters' range), always assuming we'll declare AFTER we transfer our troops.

Resources: I hope we have all resources we need. I know oil is a given because we need them for helicopters.

We surely need Oil and Rubber for our helicopters, Iron and Coal for our rail network(so we don't keep too many units on our island).

I also think, we need to have enough artilleries combined with Bombers in this game, especially since they have lethal land/see bombardment. We'll see how things will go.

I think Copernicus is a must, but Hover may be too late.

IMHO, we should built Hoover: it'll BOOST our capability of producing units a lot quicker, since we'll need many units to go against Infantries(and maybe, be attacked by tanks).

I think that Literature an then Republic is what we need first of all.

Definetly: we want to get out of Despotism ASAP.

...for upgrade it must be horses/spears, not swordmans.

Very well said: we need units we can upgrade. We could build a few swords only for an initial attack, and then disband them.

Do we have airbase?

I didn't heard anything mentioned for an airbase in this mod.

I against Bash, Smith, ets. It will take our research line "out". Also I am against Temple/Cathidrals K-A knows.

You have a point there: Bach's and Smith's require us to delay our goal of learning AF. Better capture them.

*btw: I think, it'll be good to stop playing and discuss about buying/trade for a tech the AI has --- I'm sure, all the members will have good reasons to say what will benefit our strategy or at least cause the AI to slow down(and I've also seen other Teams doing so).

 

[conehead234]

Maybe it'll be better if the first player posted a save after the scout goes on the mountain, so the hole Team can comment?

Thats what I was saying.

 

[I. Larkin]

I will be avay approx 30 hours. But will be at home, when game starts. Have no time to write more. I only want to mention that Adrian said right things, but try not to "overestimate" this. For example, we must use the rresurce of dog pill carfully. and use it against weakest civ, not strongest.
Since we are not Sci, we will not get Colosus. Dose anybody have an experience of Pyramids on Emperor? We may try Pyramids and bacup to TgL, also don't like this wonder. I think we must decide about Pyramids or GW soon. Also best location for SF and second City. Overall I hope that game will be over before MA or very close to that.
ANyhow to win competition we must research as fast as possible together with AI, we should not slowdown them! My feeling, that game is full of paradoxs.
See you soon.
Ivan

 

[King Alexander]

Pyramids would be much greater if we could have them(than GW).

 

[nerovats]

Could someone explain the dog pile strat to me?

I agree we should speed up science as much as possible, try to keep ai´s fighting by supplying the weaker ones (get value from the bigger civs, might even give away to failing civs). Science will depend on the size of our island al lot, it looks like there are some rivers, which will help. Try to take the alternative way to techs to get monopoly on tech and trade. Will the game be on emperor or monarch, emperor will help to speed up science.

I think we need another scout asap too. If we want a wonder we´ll need a high shield spot. It looks like there´s some goos terrain to the south, sending the scout to the mountain will reveal some of it. I don´t think we can get piramids or colossus on emperor, unless there´s indeed some great terrain just under the fog. Maybe the 3th city should produce a couple of warriors to join the wonder city?

Build order: scout warrior worker granary?

 

[King Alexander]

Could someone explain the dog pile strat to me?

I believe, signing multiple MA's against 1 civ.

I also am "generous"(trading resources) to civs that I've signed a MA against, if they're not doing a good job of keeping their land

Will the game be on emperor or monarch, emperor will help to speed up science.

The game will be on Emperor.

I think we need another scout asap too.

Yes, why not take advantage of our traits? Maybe we'll learn a tech more, gain a free worker...

If we want a wonder we´ll need a high shield spot. It looks like there´s some goos terrain to the south, sending the scout to the mountain will reveal some of it. I don´t think we can get piramids or colossus on emperor, unless there´s indeed some great terrain just under the fog. Maybe the 3th city should produce a couple of warriors to join the wonder city?

You meant, workers to join the wonder city?
I don't believe any ancient age wonder will do us much benefit at this small map. I mean, what to do with the Pyramids for only 6-8 cities?(unless we conquer a neighbor at our island and capture he's cities). A Great Leader would really help.
Don't get me wrong: I'd like to have the HG or Pyramids, but for more cities, although, the HG will help us with happiness issues.

We SURELY have to try for Copernicus, Newton's(if we also could get Leo's for upgrades...).

Build order: scout warrior worker granary?

I'd not build a second worker: maybe a second warrior.

 

[AdrianE]

Remember a rule is that we can't use a leader to rush a great wonder until 1000BC. So no leader generated Pyramids. (Rule 5)

Adrian

 

[conehead234]

A second worker may do us some good, but we may want an early settler. To get the second city up and running. This looks like a low shield, high food start, we should avoid settling on hills or grassland or plains if there are many flood plans around the start. That desert tile is not at all useless, if we mine it we can get 2 shields and with RR will get 3 shields and there may be oil there in the future. When we settle I think we should settle on a flood plains, with at least the hill and mountian in range. Those sheep may be nice also. As of right now, I support settling one west or one southwest. But it all depends on what the scout reveals. Maybe irrigate the flood plains and mine the regular plans, it should give us some shields. We may want to time a forest cut with our granary build, since we have faster working workers, we may be able to do this.

 

[King Alexander]

We could always settle 1W on the flood plains, having the sheep, desert, hill and mountain tiles into the city's radius, but don't we also risk dicease? It'll surely become a great shield-city later on, with all tiles mined but the flood plains.

 

[nerovats]

As far as I know you only risk decease when you work a floodplane/jungle tile. So we know we´re gona work a couple of those, so it doen not matter for settling. I always try to get as many cities on a river as possible I think settling 1SW won´t help doing that. We should at least wait whith a desicion until we moved the scout.

Maybe it´s better to build scout warrior settler granary, indeed. Use 2nd city to pump out some workers.

 

[AdrianE]

Settling 1W will NOT include the sheep in the city's radius. 1SW will.

Worker turns should be spent on irrigating and roading 2x flood plains for maximum early food. Then I think we want to mine a plains or two for shield growth.

Build order should be scout-warrior. Who knows after that. We are on archipelago so two scouts is all we should need to explore our island.

I think that RCP of 3 or 4 is called for to maximize early growth and speed up the early game. Settling 1SW will give us another high food city 3N of our capital at RCP=4.5 and a high shield city at E-E-NE at RCP=4.0

1 tile island cities worry me. If there are any, how can we take them out?

 

[I. Larkin]

" don't believe any ancient age wonder will do us much benefit at this small map. I mean, what to do with the Pyramids for only 6-8 cities?(unless we conquer a neighbor at our island and capture he's cities).
Don't get me wrong: I'd like to have the HG or Pyramids, but for more cities, although, the HG will help us with happiness issues. "
The idea of Wonder to trig Golden Adge. Thats why we need early Industrial one. The minimum harm is GWall and with prebuild we may get it for sure. Pyramib is useful for 7 Cities already, but we have to start it early to get for sure.
"
1) Worker turns should be spent on irrigating and roading 2x flood plains for maximum early food. Then I think we want to mine a plains or two for shield growth.

2) Build order should be scout-warrior. Who knows after that. We are on archipelago so two scouts is all we should need to explore our island."
1) we need Setler Factory and only hope for that if settle on desert and will not mine plains. For RCP desert also better.
2) I thing we need warrior - settler - granary first and 1 scout is enough. We may want 2 if we are not alone on island.