SGOTM8 - Own

[stagnate]

The AI will cancel a wonder to build a defender in a city depending on the offensive force and defensive presence. I am not sure if they would do it if the wonder city wasn't directly threatened.

Moot point anyway.

 

[Symphony D.]

I'm just going to let it be known in advance before IstariAsuka completes his turns that I'm going to need a skip as I'm in the middle of a move to another apartment right now. Sorry guys.

 

[IstariAsuka]

Whoaaa guys, sorry for the delay, it's been really really hectic here with school starting and things.

But I haven't abandoned you!

I'll play my turns tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Andronicus]

Whoaaa guys, sorry for the delay, it's been really really hectic here with school starting and things.

But I haven't abandoned you!

I'll play my turns tomorrow afternoon.

Good luck - have fun - looking forward to your report of China's demise

Roster
Andronicus - just played
IstariAsuka - on deck
Symphony D. - skip till further notice
stagnate - waiting
Own
Abegweit
voe - if checks in?

 

[IstariAsuka]

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Own_SG008_BC0350_01.SAV

Well, some things went well, some things went unfortunately. Overall I think I was slightly too ambitious, as you will see below.

I did make fairly extensive use of scientists to research polytheism 2 (3?) turns more quickly than otherwise possible (quite an increase!)



530 BC
Set research to Polytheism.
Trade for techs and money.
Move forces into preparation to attack Shanghai.
Move forces into preparation to attack Chengde

510 BC
War begins.
Take Shanghai with minimal damage.
Take Chengde with minimal damage.
Greece enters into the war on our side for free.

490 BC
Nothing of interest.

470 BC
Nothing of interest.

450 BC
Learn Polytheism (I believe it was this turn, at least.

430 BC
Barely fail to take Beijing due to really really terrible luck.
Conquer and raze that SW Chinese city, I cannot recall the name.

410 BC
Nothing of interest.

370 BC
Forbidden Palace built.
Barely fail to take Xinjian due to really, really terrible luck.

350 BC
Horse Back Riding learned, Middle Ages have begun.


As you can see, I was a little less conservative than I should have be, and the RNG punished me for it. Other than that, however, the war went well, and reinforcements archers are ariving up north, now.

Note that I did NOT begin a revolt to Republic, since I felt that I'd need a few more troops than were already built or the war would stall too badly. This probably was a bad decision. I was going to revolt this turn, but I leave that up to the player who plays next.

I gotta go now, but I'll post a screen cap later tonight.

Again, sorry about the delay in my turns.

 

[Andronicus]

China War
2 out of 3 objectives achieved so far - 1 left - capture Beijing and pyramids

We are running out of time before Great Wall built. When I checked in 750BC it wuld take 20 turns to build MoM (2/3 shields as GW) making their GW build 10 more turns at max, perhaps less if production has increased.
Could anyone comment on whether there is a bug with GW such that cats wont work against it - I recall reading they cause a crash but I'm not sure whether this refers to PTW or all versions? If this is the case I doubt we could take Beijing without a mass of longbows.

How many spears in Beijing? - if only the one elite we should hit it with cats to get it down to 1HP then attack with all avail units. We are currently average in military compared to China and weak against Greece.

We currently have little mil in position to threaten Beijing, but there are 5 cats nearby which could be brought to bear with a spear for protection and any archers avail.

I think the trick will be to get a strong enough attack force in place in the next 5 or 6 moves. This could be assisted by using the settler S of 12 to build 1SW, 1W of Beijing in the 5th turn thus shortening the trip. 5 archers (damaged one - healing meanwhile, one accompanying settler, one in 10, one near 07 and one on mountains b4 07) could all be in place to attack beijing on turn 6
2 horses could be rushed next turn in 02 and 03 which could also reach Beijing for turn 6 attack - hopefully 5 cats, 5 archers and 2 horse would be adequate (could get one other cat by rushing one in ECB).

Sev archers could be brought from core to jungle in case of unit drop off near 07 although I think any aggresson from China is unlikely as they will likely be building defensive units with 2 front war.

Given all this we could probably stop unit production after this and maybe revolt turn 2 or 3 - this has been delayed already - quite rightly I think until the war has an inevitable conclusion.

Once Beijing secure we will need to starve resistors. Do we keep cats and a archer retake force outside in case of flip, or stack units inside to decrease flip probability? On subject of flips we should starve down Chengdu and Shanghei which both have resistor present.
Edit : Shanghei flip probability 1.8-3.7% per turn.
Do we continue on to Nanking, Canton and Xinjiang - guess it depends how much miliary we have left and whether we are hit with war weariness. I recommend concentrating our army on one city at a time.

If we are unable to take Beijing before Great Wall built we will be facing China in its GA and able to hurry spears in Beijing - not a pretty prospect.

We still have 2 turns rop left with Greece (I recommend renew unless we want to take Athens with cats and archer/horse v hoplites) as I think we need some time to build a bit of neglected infrastructure. Also 12 turns left on alliance v Chinese so no peace treaty before then unless Greece signs first.

Not convinced about reg warrior builds in 14 and 15 - I think all jungle cities should max food (non-corrupted) and build workers which can be added to core cities to speed their growth (or build cats which dont benefit from vet status)

 

[IstariAsuka]

China War
2 out of 3 objectives achieved so far - 1 left - capture Beijing and pyramids

Yeah, sorry about the whole Beijing thing. I had like 3 archers die without doing ANY damage to their guys. Eventually they one with only the elite spearman left, and him with only ONE hp remaining. It was really frusterating. So I apologize for that.

We are running out of time before Great Wall built. When I checked in 750BC it wuld take 20 turns to build MoM (2/3 shields as GW) making their GW build 10 more turns at max, perhaps less if production has increased.
Could anyone comment on whether there is a bug with GW such that cats wont work against it - I recall reading they cause a crash but I'm not sure whether this refers to PTW or all versions? If this is the case I doubt we could take Beijing without a mass of longbows.

I was actually thinking that if we failed to take Beijing in time, we should make peace, obtaining their iron city in the process. (They're willing to give 1-2 cities for peace, depending upon the cities.) Then, when the iron is attached through some harbors (probably switch to republic and cash rush the harbors), we could build swords and attack. Swords would be just as effective against walled-spears as archers have been against non-walled-spears, so it wouldn't be that big a setback.

How many spears in Beijing? - if only the one elite we should hit it with cats to get it down to 1HP then attack with all avail units. We are currently average in military compared to China and weak against Greece.

When I attacked it it was left with just that one elite spearmen, yes. That was a few turns ago though, so they have probably buffed it up a little since then.

We currently have little mil in position to threaten Beijing, but there are 5 cats nearby which could be brought to bear with a spear for protection and any archers avail.

Yeah, even though both our attack forces were destroyed, I was able to retreat the cats. I was really lucky to be able to retreat the cats in the SW at all, but RNG pittied me.

Once Beijing secure we will need to starve resistors. Do we keep cats and a archer retake force outside in case of flip, or stack units inside to decrease flip probability? On subject of flips we should starve down Chengdu and Shanghei which both have resistor present.
Edit : Shanghei flip probability 1.8-3.7% per turn.

I say we leave units stationed outside the cities.

Oh, and the reason that I didn't starve Chengdu and Shanghai much was because I didn't think the flip chance was high enough to make it worthwhile.

Do we continue on to Nanking, Canton and Xinjiang - guess it depends how much miliary we have left and whether we are hit with war weariness. I recommend concentrating our army on one city at a time.

Yeah, I really should have only gone after one city at a time. It's just that their cities were ridiculously weak. They all had like 2 spears at most. Beijing I think only had 2 spears and an archer or something like that. The odds were that I'd win easily enough, much as happened in the first 2 cities I took. It just didn't turn out that way, though.

Not convinced about reg warrior builds in 14 and 15 - I think all jungle cities should max food (non-corrupted) and build workers which can be added to core cities to speed their growth (or build cats which dont benefit from vet status)

Yeah, those I forgot to mention. I was too lazy to actually change them to produce anything other than warriors since they weren't almost done yet, and I didn't know what people would want them to produce instead of warriors. Therefore, I just left them for the next player to change. I didn't intend for them to actually make warriors!!

 

[Andronicus]

A screenie of the jungle zone showing our forces - 5 archers, a spear and 5 cats (and 1 settler) for assaulting Beijing
Edit - my proposed city site is on the jungle NW,N of the wounded archer/cat stack

 

[Andronicus]

Yeah, sorry about the whole Beijing thing. I had like 3 archers die without doing ANY damage to their guys. Eventually they one with only the elite spearman left, and him with only ONE hp remaining. It was really frusterating. So I apologize for that.

I was actually thinking that if we failed to take Beijing in time, we should make peace, obtaining their iron city in the process. (They're willing to give 1-2 cities for peace, depending upon the cities.) Then, when the iron is attached through some harbors (probably switch to republic and cash rush the harbors), we could build swords and attack. Swords would be just as effective against walled-spears as archers have been against non-walled-spears, so it wouldn't be that big a setback.

When I attacked it it was left with just that one elite spearmen, yes. That was a few turns ago though, so they have probably buffed it up a little since then.

Yeah, I really should have only gone after one city at a time. It's just that their cities were ridiculously weak. They all had like 2 spears at most. Beijing I think only had 2 spears and an archer or something like that. The odds were that I'd win easily enough, much as happened in the first 2 cities I took. It just didn't turn out that way, though.

QUOTE]

I agree that china had really weak defences - I think tactically the mistake was mine in not going for Chengdu and Shanghai earlier, then concentrating maximal assault on Beijing. I'm sure the reason you had more difficulty with Beijing was because it's size 7 on a hill - we really need some luck with those cats to get their spear to 1HP then have enough units to throw at them to take the city. Good point about getting iron city in any peace deal if unsuccessful taking Beijing. I suspect that by the time we could retry Beijing it would be with trebs and MIs or LBs. Unfortunately I doubt we will find it poorly defended after they have completed the GW - it will likely have pikes

 

[Andronicus]

Roster

Andronicus
IstariAsuka - just played
Symphony D. - skip
stagnate - you're up
Own - waiting
Abegweit
voe - if checks in?

 

[Own]

What happens if we get a great leader? Rush FP?

 

[Abegweit]

@Own We already have our FP

Some comments:

We have an alliance with Alex which expires in 12 turns. Do not cut a peace deal. They won't give us their iron city for peace anyway.

We should be training horses, not archers.

Why didn't we revolt as agreed?

 

[Own]

Horse army? Or build an empty army and save it for swords? That's what I'd do.

 

[Andronicus]

@Own We already have our FP

Some comments:

We have an alliance with Alex which expires in 12 turns. Do not cut a peace deal. They won't give us their iron city for peace anyway.

We should be training horses, not archers.

Why didn't we revolt as agreed?

Agree 100% - 1) archers built in core next turn will not make it to Beijing before GW built, but horses probably will 2) horse upgradde more useful in taking over our island if we get iron - we must.

 

[Andronicus]

Horse army? Or build an empty army and save it for swords? That's what I'd do.

The time of swords has passed us by - we are now researching feudalism
The point is moot anyway since we lack elite units

 

[Own]

I predict this map is like pangaea, with chokes between islands, and the challenge is having to take a longer route to get to your enemies. I'll bet 50 posts of my post account on that.

 

[stagnate]

Ok got it. Won't look at peace for 12 turns unless really juicy or dire

Turn 0:

Switch Archer builds to Horseman, may change some of those to infrastructure before they complete. Change O8 from Courthouse to Marketplace. It would gain 1 science from a courthouse and 1 maint, marketplace gives us +2 and 1 maint.

Warrior builds switched to cats. Not enough pop for workers yet.

Starve Shanghai and Chengu.

Switch research to 60% goes from 39 turns to 19 turns.

Hurry production of horse in O2 and O3.

Two workers outside 15 are working territory not in our borders. They'll finish soon so I let them be, but pay attention to borders.

IBT: Chinese archer comes from Xinjian.

Turn 1 (330 BC):

Horsemen built. Switch builds to aqueducts (won't complete until after revolution anyway). Move 2x archers and spear to take out the chinese archer. Retreat Cats to Shanghai with archer.

IBT China and Greece sign a peace treaty.

Turn 2 (310 BC):

How is there a worker of ours (captured chinese) outside beijing building a road???

Greece got Feudalism by entering the MA (probably what they got for peace). We are several turns into research on the same, so I let it be.

IBT turns resign RoP with Greece; don't want them to backstab us and don't think we'll be attacking them in 20 turns. Scandanavia shows up with a ship.

Turn 3 (290 BC):

Scandanavia doesn't know anyone, is down Currency, Construction, Philo, Poly, CoL. They have 120 gold and WM to trade, give them Philo in return. Establish embassy, working on Temple, have a boat and 2 spear in their city. No strategic resources hooked up. They can see orange borders on another island.

Turn 4 (270 BC):

China captures our worker, two archers are outside cities but not yet exposed. Move most of the stack forward with settler. Vikings still haven't 'met' the orange, and greece has red (babs?) outside on of their cities also with no contact.

Turn 5 (250 BC):

Horse takes elite archer and 1 damage, horse takes reg archer and is redlined. Move two archers into place to cover (1 reg archer threatens). Cats can't move onto jungle, fortify with the rest of the troops, move spear and horse and settler to city spot.

Turn 6 (230 BC): Archer loses to our units, we have 2/4 archer and 1/4 horse will wait for them to recover before attack (hope we beat GW).

Move archer to 15 to keep Greece honest (archer moving through via RoP).

Move 4/4 archers, cats and spear next to Beijing to start bombing them next turn, which will give us an idea of their strength.

Turn 7 (210 BC):

Cats take spear down to 3/5 and don't reveal any other units, so I send horse in. Doesn't retreat, doesn't deal any damage. Another archer takes out a chinese archer threatening our new city.

Turn 8 (190 BC):

Cats take beijing down to 2/5 and don't reveal anything else, bring archer into battle and it takes the city with 1HP loss.

I'm ending my turn early, because there are two decisions awaiting. The first issue is that we still will only get 1-2 cities from China for peace, and we have enough of a force to take Nanking or Canton in 3 turns (I prefer canton, so that their capital is as far from their other cities as possible.

We could get Macao (on its own little island), and Tatung (same island as their iron). We can't get lit in that deal. If we take canton we should also be able to get ayung or whatever.

I haven't revolted because I can't remember if that will affect a peace deal. Check Greece and Vikings every turn to try to trade contacts.

Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Own_SG008_BC0190_01.SAV

 

[Own]

I haven't revolted because I can't remember if that will affect a peace deal. Check Greece and Vikings every turn to try to trade contacts.

No, definately not. Where did you get that idea? Anyway, I'm up, and will have this tomorrow night probably.

 

[Abegweit]

@AlanH

I don't receive any emails indicating that there have been new posts on the thread.

 

[Own]

You can just check your user CP periodically.