SGOTM8 - Own

[Abegweit]

@stagnate

The choke will be useful for defence but we will want to build north of it before the attack. We should claim as much of the jungle between us and the Chinese as possible especially, as Andronicus said, the dyes.

Towards the end of our REX, we should move to the attack. Before deciding how to do it (and exactly when), we need know where the iron and horses are.

I'm not really worried about Riders; the AI doesn't know how to use them.

A war between the Chinese and Greeks would be a good idea but not until we know some off-island civs. One thing we do not want to do is to slow down the research rate.

 

[IstariAsuka]

Hey guys, check it out.

Even 9 turns behind we're still ahead of every team but Wacken and Obormot (Though Chunky looks to be overtaking us).

Hopefully we can keep this pace up...

 

[Andronicus]

Andronicus:

Oh, and I doubt the NE city can be a settler factory due to corruption. You say it will have 2 extra shields, but that's without corruption, yes? It'd be down 2 shields with corruption. It could do it every 6 turns, however.

Your right - I neglected corruption; there is an alt - use forest in place of irr desert for extra 1 shield per turn whilst mining desert to get extra shields on growth - I'm not certain whether corruption would then leave us with 10 shields or not.

Edit -City 04 at same distance has 25% corruption so this probably wont work out - may have to go for 3 turn workers

 

[Andronicus]

Expansionistic civs will never pop barbs from huts.

If we can place a unit on the chokepoint, and fortify there, we may be able to get a war going between greece and china that will slow both of them down without risking much on our side.

I agree with placing a unit (and later a defended city) on choke point, but I'm uncertain there will be much benefit to war now when we are still so far away (all that jungle and mountains between us)

Re GH popping - I thought it was just if you used a scout you didnt pop a barb, but if you popped with a military unit then a barb is just as likely with expansionist civ. Please correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Andronicus]

Hey guys, check it out.

Even 9 turns behind we're still ahead of every team but Wacken and Obormot (Though Chunky looks to be overtaking us).

Hopefully we can keep this pace up...

Looking good - wonder where we'd be if I hadnt rushed the granary, looking back I think this was a mistake as city may not have been in barbs view

 

[Andronicus]

@stagnate

Towards the end of our REX, we should move to the attack. Before deciding how to do it (and exactly when), we need know where the iron and horses are.

I'm not really worried about Riders; the AI doesn't know how to use them.

A war between the Chinese and Greeks would be a good idea but not until we know some off-island civs. One thing we do not want to do is to slow down the research rate.

I agree - there may yet be a question of if we get iron and/or horses

 

[Own]

I'm not worried about riders either, we'll attack them before they get them I hope. We should trade territory maps and if they have island cities, we should get them for peace then redeclare war.

 

[IstariAsuka]

Looking good - wonder where we'd be if I hadnt rushed the granary, looking back I think this was a mistake as city may not have been in barbs view

Whether it was a mistake or not it didn't set us that far back.

Besides, we're all gonna make mistakes, so let's all be nice to each other and to ourselves when they happen.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure expansionist NEVER gets barbs from huts, even if they pop it with a non-scout unit.

BTW, something to ponder: is it worth building a temple in 02 in order to pop the goody hut? I think I'll look up probabilites of popping various things on emperor. Too bad settler popping is disabled...

Edit:

Emperor - Expansionist
City - 8.3
Tech - 25
Gold - 16.7
Settler - 16.7
Map - 16.7
Warrior - 16.7

With a 25% chance of tech it may be worth doing it in a bit. Do goody huts disappear? Or do they stay until the MA?

 

[Own]

I actually think a settler wouldn't help at all, considering the rate we'll be producing settlers.

 

[IstariAsuka]

I actually think a settler wouldn't help at all, considering the rate we'll be producing settlers.

Well, see, if settler popping was turned on, and we got one, we'd have a city on a DIFFERENT continent. Which would be very very useful indeed. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

Anyways, I updated my post with probabilities. 25% chance of a tech ain't bad.

 

[Own]

Do goody huts disappear?

Only if an AI pops one. How would we get a city on a different continent?

 

[IstariAsuka]

Only if an AI pops one. How would we get a city on a different continent?

Well, with settler popping turned off we can't, unless we happen to get very lucky and the hut contains a city (8.3% chance). So, while possible still, it's unlikely.

Anyways, Symphony D. is up next, yes?

Are we moving to 10 turn sets, or what? We should finalize this now.

 

[Own]

Yes, 10 turnsets sounds good. I've always thought the city you pop is in the square you pop it in from, but if not I guess it could go to the other continent.

 

[Symphony D.]

Got it, will try and play tonight - if not, then definitely tomorrow (figures I come up in this and another SG at the same time).

 

[Abegweit]

I've always thought the city you pop is in the square you pop it in from, but if not I guess it could go to the other continent.

It is in the square you pop it from but... If your cultural boundaries expand to include a goody hut on another continent, that will pop it. You can get a city on the other continent that way. Or a unit which could be used to explore. I don't have the game with me right now so I forget the exact configuration. As I recall, there is a GH on the island to the SW. Can we pop it this way?

Edit: I see I should have read the whole thread before jumping in. This comment is mostly redundant. Anyway, IMO, building the temple is well worth it. If we get real lucky, we get a city but anything would be worthwhile. There's no rush to do so though.

Goody huts stay around until popped. You can't get a tech unless you are in the Ancient Era.

 

[Symphony D.]

TURNLOG:
Turn 01 / 2110 BC - First dilemna is the barb threatening 03. Doing some combat calc checks it seems to be a better option to attack. Do so, and the barb is felled with no damage to the Archer. IBT Washington completes a Settler, starts another.
Turn 02 / 2070 BC - Reviewing both my own dot map and Andronicus' and weighing our options, I decide to send the Settler to what was Blue Dot on mine (SE of Washington). My thinking is since the area beyond there is fairly mountainous and it's a choke, it will likely be a barb problem in the future and plugging it up now seems somewhat prudent. Plus the road network to there is already completed. I'm not very high on the idea of producing lots of Regular Warriors right now, especially with only Washington having high population, and no real threats close nearby. I think emphasizing Barracks might be better since if we're going to pay for troops they should at least be Veterans. Only 03 can do it in a decent time period for now though, so only it gets changed.
Turn 03 / 2030 BC - I realize we can turn Lux down to 30% while Washington is size 5. We break even on GPT costs. Some unit movement occurs.
Turn 04 / 1990 BC - 05 founded. Unit movement onto the mountain near 05 reveals the presence of Gems.
Turn 05 / 1950 BC - Writing down to 1 turn left. Adjust Research to 10%, make 8 GPT and still finish next turn. Check of tech progress amongst AIs via diplo shows both China and Greece have Writing. IBT learn Writing, Washington completes Settler, starts on Warrior for MP and so that we don't sink below Size 3 while making Settlers. Start Philosophy at 70% initially, due in 15. Spot a Barb horsemen in the mountains.
Turn 06 / 1910 BC - As Washington is size 4, recalibrate to 80% Research and 20% Lux, with Philo now due in 12 at -1 GPT. Change the spare citizen in 03 to a Scientist, making Philo due in 10 at -1 GPT. IBT another barb horseman appears, heading for 05.
Turn 07 / 1870 BC - Move Archer to block mountain pass. IBT kill 1x barb Horseman, Archer promotes to Elite. Washington completes Warrior, starts on Settler.
Turn 08 / 1830 BC - Adjust Lux to 10%, leave Research at 80%, break even at 0 GPT.
Turn 09 / 1790 BC - Adjust Lux to 20%, at -1 GPT. MM Washington a little to grow in 2 and complete Settler in 4, rather than complete Settler in 3 and grow in 4. Extra shields from the growth should yield same net effect without the commerce hit from dipping to a really low pop level. Gamble on killing the remaining barb Horseman, only lose 1 HP.
Turn 10 / 1750 BC - We're at Turn 50. Some unit movment. Workers are making a mine near Washington to serve as a forest equivilent for more shields in the future. Worker up north is making a road for the remaining two sites south of the mountains. China has Math, otherwise status quo. Save and upload.

NOTES:
Firaxis Score is 169 as of 1750 BC, and our graph is starting to parallel that of Wacken some, which is good considering how insanely far ahead they are. Hopefully my builds haven't made a mess of things, and we seem on a good track to start going North.

SCREEN:

Should probably decide where to put 07 since we've got some slightly different positions, though I don't think it really matters. 08 will obviously be at the choke. Gems can be seen in the bottom-right.

SAVE GAME LINK

 

[IstariAsuka]

Well, I suppose we have been slowed by a couple turns, since the Settler Factory got messed up, but it looks like it can be brought up running again at this point, since Washington is at 5 pop again.

 

[stagnate]

Own are you still unable to play? If I don't hear from you in the next ~10 hours I'll play through.

What are our plans for the philo tech? My rankings:
1) Trade for CoL and get Repub
2) Trade up to poly and get Monarchy
3) Trade for Math and get Currency

If those aren't available or I can't trade for them .... math? Poly?

 

[Andronicus]

Things are looking good

I'm pleased to see you're building more workers. Am I right in seeing we currently have 3? With our 7th and 8th towns to be settled in the next turn set, I think we should give priority to those tiles which we need using soon and those that access us to useful places (ie luxes, the AI and future settlement)
Currently Washington has all the tiles worked it needs for its settler factory which I would envision lasting until we are out of despotism. I dont think we should chop its remaining forest until we need the shields for lib or market.
02 req 3 grass to be roaded and mined, 03, 04 & 05 similarly have unworked / partially worked grass.
Could one of those 2 mining workers chop 03's forest to speed barracks or its next archer?
A road to the gems and colony (but must protect it against barbs), would be high on my priorities.
06 req irr plains - I'd prioritise the plains on the river for extra commerce (for an archipelago map we seem to have a very generous amount of rivers near our starting location - we need to use them).
We ought to use that river soon with our next city to the NE which will req irr FPs and working the olives (mine, as plenty of food from irr FPs, but this city will be low on shields)
Any lazy workers after all that can be put on duty to road across the mountain to the jungle!
Yep, we need a lot of workers .

Regards research - if (and that's a big if) we get phil first the only real no-no IMO is MM (dont think we have HBR anyway). I wouldnt place high value on poly as I dont believe monarchy is the way to go (although if we want HG to help our GA we should consider a pre build, so my prefs would be 1) Rep if we can trade for CoL, 2) Currency (prefer constr but dont have IW? so would need 2 trades via big picture) 3) Lit ->earlier libs, some border expansion and not prioritised by AI so trade opportunity.

Another thought - with settlers spewing out rapidly our FP should be avail in not distant future ? prebuild at 04 or 05.

Edit
PS I have some concerns about potential barb build up to the north - I wonder if warrior in 02 might be more useful guarding the choke. Would hate to lose a settler. This would also be lookout for any wandering AI.

 

[Abegweit]

@Andronicus Agreed totally. We need workers.

I don't have access to the save. Do our friends have any contacts? I assume not.

About research: We need to think about trying to get the republic slingshot. Missing that would be a huge setback and it's still not impossible.

At the point we are right now, I suggest that we research Philosophy full out and then stop when we are one turn from it. When CoL appears, finish Philo and trade through the big picture. Then take Republic as our free tech. Ideally, of course, CoL would appear before we get Philo but if it doesn't we should take the risk and wait for it to do so. The potential gain of this course is far greater than the risk. Missing the free tech is no big deal if all we get out of it is Map making or some such thing. Getting Republic is a huge boon.