SGOTM8 - Own

[Andronicus]

We have Beijing
We have the Pyramids
China doesnt have GW nor GA

Well done stagnate - seems you had much better RNG than IstariAsuka

Recommend we revolt ASAP - we have enough units to damage China's northern remains.

2 archers with movement left can be moved N of Dallas, then adjacent Canton next turn - these can be joined by horse moving this turn up from 11 and horse in Dallas after it has healed next turn - with good RNG 4 units should be sufficient. Next turn cats and remaining archers can go get Nanking 1 turn later. Decision then whether to accept peace or go for Xianjing as well depending on how affected by war weariness when emerge into Rep.
China wont give up an iron city - looks like we will need to get iron from Greeks with longbows when we go for Athens and its Collosus. Note no further Chinese cities nor any Greek cities built on hills. We should be able to get lit from Chinese in peace deal.

Re ex junglr cities - I note we have mined 4 grass tiles and are mining 2 more - not sure that we will see much use for this as shields are all currently lost on waste (07 currently using hill sacrificing non corruptible food). Irrigating in rep will allow us to support sev scientists in each corrupt city - mining will give very few shields, most likely requiring courts before we see sig benefit.
Build orders in these cites - workers are useful and can be added to core cites to get them up to size, settlers can build more cities in ex chinese territory (red dots on dot map) I think we have enough cats (later upgrade to trebs for Greek war) and I doubt benefit of rax in corrupt city. I would also question building reg spear in Shanghai (? settler), but I admit I have an aversion to defensive units.
Some MM will increase growth (eg 13 can work grass instead of coast allowing growth and worker build next turn)

Re diplo - should we consider gifting / trading contacts and techs to speed up world research rate?

 

[Abegweit]

@Stagnate Woo Hoo!

@Andronicus

I agree totally about how the rest of the war should play out. Go for it, Own.

And definitely we should speed up the global research rate. This should wait for the peace treaty, though. Literature + contact with the Viking + research to date might get feudalism from the Greeks. Dunno. The AI wants a fortune for that tech.

However, I think we should plan on attacking the Greeks sooner. Waiting for Invention is too long. Horses and cats can take out hoplites. An alternate route to would be to take Tatung in the treaty. The second the treaty expires we move on Tientsin to get iron. In fact, this should be part of our plan however we move on the Greeks.

We also need to think about which wonder we want to build and where. The best are probably Smith's and Bach but they both come from optional techs. I'm leaning towards Sistine. Cops is another possibility. What about the Mausoleum? It's cheap.

 

[stagnate]

I think I was getting mixed up between reasons for AI attacking (anarchy increases the chance) and peace deals (based on losses to each side).

The spearmen was simply because I couldn't think of what to change it to and it was slow enough the next player could decide. Note that I didn't change any builds or look at cities, so check things out before your next turn.

We definately need to get tatung in a peace deal, with plans to take tientsin later for iron.

I want to wait for the Vikings to make contact with that other civ, to get whatever we can from them before trading contact. Don't trade at Monopoly rates, so don't bother trying to get Feudalism from Greece.

We can sell our granaries also for a little extra cash.

 

[Abegweit]

@stagnate

With some exceptions, cities outside the core should generally be building workers. Since we have the Pyramids, our scientist towns will grow even if we peel workers off them. The workers then proceed to irrigate everything in sight. Once done, they head home to be merged into our core cities. About the only other thing we will need out in the boonies is harbours.

While I understand the point about monopoly trading, it doesn't apply here. Get feudalism as soon as we can. The sooner we get it, the sooner we can start on something else. Our research rate has been horrible so far and it is going to kill us. The one thing which can get us back into this game is a GA, and it needs to come Real Soon Now.

As for the orange civ, I don't trust the AI to make contact and would not plan anything based on how soon they meet. We do have plenty of stuff to trade to the Vikings anyhoo so there will be no problem. Certainly we should make contact as soon as we can.

 

[IstariAsuka]

Our research rate has been horrible so far and it is going to kill us. The one thing which can get us back into this game is a GA, and it needs to come Real Soon Now.

Though I messed up in failing to take Beijing, that is one thing I did do right: I made extensive use of scientists, cutting Polytheism from 7 turns to 4! It takes work, but we're only playing 10 turns each, so it's not too tedious.

Just fiddle around with the happiness slider--if people are a little unhappy, it's OK, we make them scientists. This allows us to have the science slider up higher than it could otherwise be, and gets us scientists. This does slow down production somewhat, since ~1 tile/city is not being worked when it otherwise would be, but the speed-up in research is tremendous.

 

[Andronicus]

Noticed 01 - formerly Washington - is working the hill. This gives 3 extra fpt and growth in 4 turns with 2 food wastage. If 5fpt growth was maintained (by working iFP) it would grow in 2 until size 7, then grow in 4 once granary full - this city should be able to get up to size 12 rapidly and probably will not require adding in workers (neither I suspect will 08) -other core cities req duct then add workers to get up to size. Once in Rep, with removal of despotic penalty, we should be able to work the hill.
My suggestion would be to build market in 01 as prebuild for lib instead of temple.

I agree with IstariAsuka that we need judicous use of scientists to boost science. In Rep the corrupt jungle cities will support sev scientists each working a couple of irr grasslands.
Libraries in core ASAP will also help.

BTW the orange to the north of Vikings would be English and red to west of Greeks would be Romans. I assume Japanese (they who built oracle) are south of Romans.

Interesting point re Greeks - they are currently building 3 wonders (leaving only Knossos - shield poor and Sparta able to respond to war with units). I suspect Athens is close to completing MoM. Corinth will take a long time on the Lighthouse likewise Thermopylae on ToA. We are however weak militarily compared to them.

I agree with Abegweit and stagnate re getting Tatung in peace treaty then rushing archers to take Tientsin to secure iron (? take 6 archers - all rushed after 1 shield -> 114g - cheap price for iron). This assumes Tientsin doesnt become capital with units in gifted cities going to it nor that China hooks up its iron and upgrades to pikes.

 

[Andronicus]

re wonder to spark off GA

First we need to capture Athens (for most of these)

Sistine's - expensive ? useless - I cant see us building cathedrals
Sun Tzu's - expensive, some use as we will have lots of cities - means we can rush vets in corrupt cities late in game.
Leo's - expensive, not sure how useful as helis, bombers and tanks will not come from upgrades
MoM - Athens will get it first
GLib - ? little use
HG - req research optional tech - probably most useful of those no more than 2 techs away
GW - along with ToA & GLight I expect someone will build soon - useless
Knights Templar - optional tech, would be useful in taking Greek cities but defeats the purpose as we need wonder build after capturing Athens.

Copernicus - my choice - only 400 shields, 5 techs away, (not that long once in Rep), is expansionist thus giving us our GA irrespective of whether we own the collosus in Athens and useful to boost our science. I would suggest building it in 01 which can be 20spt once at size 12. Can start prebuild after lib?
Edit - why build in 01? - only really good shield producer, no corruptable science bonus, doesnt need court so less other infrastructure to build.

 

[Own]

Sorry guys, I need an extension to tomorrow night, was much busier than expected.

 

[Andronicus]

@stagnate

With some exceptions, cities outside the core should generally be building workers. Since we have the Pyramids, our scientist towns will grow even if we peel workers off them. The workers then proceed to irrigate everything in sight. Once done, they head home to be merged into our core cities. About the only other thing we will need out in the boonies is harbours.

Can also do with more settlers - we have room for 7 more in former Chinese lands (less 2 settlers we have at present) see dot map for suggested placement, and will later want many more for (soon to be) former Greek lands.
Harbours are not required just yet - irr grass is preferable due to extra growth (non corruptable) v extra commerce (corruptable). Once all grass tiles are irrigated and used then we will need harbours - we currently have about 6 unused grass tiles in the former jungle region with more to come with jungle clearing (2 should be used immed switching from hills for 07 and coast for 13).

 

[IstariAsuka]

Oh, I guess I never really told you guys why I started the whole 01, 02... 11, 12... etc. naming scheme. What it does is put all your cities in alphabetical order. This is convenient because when you go to your culture advisor screen where you can see happiness and production, etc. your core cities are all at the top of the screen. Instead of having to hunt down your major cities, they're all nicely lumped together. This makes life much easier, especially when deciding upon lux slider/scientists and the type of thing.

 

[Andronicus]

Oh, I guess I never really told you guys why I started the whole 01, 02... 11, 12... etc. naming scheme. What it does is put all your cities in alphabetical order. This is convenient because when you go to your culture advisor screen where you can see happiness and production, etc. your core cities are all at the top of the screen. Instead of having to hunt down your major cities, they're all nicely lumped together. This makes life much easier, especially when deciding upon lux slider/scientists and the type of thing.

Alternately in the advisor screen you can click on the gold, science, production etc bow at top of screen to see cities in order of commerce, science, production etc, alos click again gives reverse order.

Personally I like to rename cities on another island or in a different region with a prefix eg W for western island NE for NE island so I know where I'm dealing with if I've got tons of cities - this also puts cities in same region lumped together alphabetically on advisor screen (at least if use sev letters in prefix).

I'm sure there are many other ways - who's to say what is best

 

[Own]

Allright, GOT IT!!

 

[Own]

I'm sorry, I need a skip. Sorry I waited so long to tell you that, it's annoying, but I'm really busy tonight.

 

[Abegweit]

I'll try to pick it up tomorrow morning.

Consider this a got it.

 

[Abegweit]

Pre-flight. We should have revolted 20 turns ago. It’s time now.

Several cities are whipped in preparation for the move. All of the mine builds are changed to irrigation. China does not seem ready to give up and will have to be beaten up more.

OK. Push the button. Eight turns. Ugh! It serves us right for growing before revolting.

170 Take out Chinese archer [1-0]
150 Take out barb camp with two horses [3-0]
130 4/4 archer takes 2/3 spear [4-0]
4/4 archer loses to 2/3 spear [4-1]
4/4 archer takes 2/3 spear [5-1]
4/4 archer takes 2/4 spear [6-1]
Nanking is ours
110 Greeks have met the Romans
90 Romans buy contact. They know Limeys and Japs and Literature
70 Movement
50 Assault on Canton
4/4 archer takes 2/3 spear [7-1]
4/4 archer takes 1/3 spear [8-1]
4/4 archer takes 1/3 spear [9-1] and Canton is ours
30 Republic established
10 Assault on Xinjiang
4/4 horse takes 3/3 spear and promotes [10-1]
4/4 horse takes 2/3 spear [11-1]
4/4 horse takes 2/3 spear [12-1] and the city is ours

The Chinese are driven off the mainland so it’s time for peace. Unfortunately we cannot get either Tientsin or Hangchow in the peace deal. They will give us Anyang, Macao, Shantung and Literature and Territory Map so I take that.

I’m stopping now. There’s a lot of trading left to do, but I’ll leave that up to the next player. Also, the cities need to be micro-managed as the war ended. Andronicus… over to you.

In sum, we have taken six more cities and are finally in Republic. Feudalism is due in 2. I haven't checked about whether that can be mm'd down to 1 or whether getting more contacts will help.

 

[stagnate]

The Chinese are driven off the mainland so it’s time for peace. Unfortunately we cannot get either Tientsin or Hangchow in the peace deal. They will give us Anyang, Macao, Shantung and Literature and Territory Map so I take that.

Shoot, we really wanted tatung so we could take tientsin by military force from that jumping point. Our battle against Greece will probably require longbows, unless we can manage to steal an iron via culture bomb or something.

 

[Abegweit]

Hangchow was "close". I would have taken it instead of all the other stuff if I could have gotten it instead. But once the Chinese were gone, there was nothing else to do but make peace.

It might be worth investigating Athens to see if we have a decent shot at it. I think we should. We have 8 archers, 6 horses, 7 cats and 1 spearman left over from the China war. That should be more than enough. We are currently rated "weak" against Alex, however.

 

[Andronicus]

Great work - 12-1 is excellent win loss ratio

@ Own - are you avail now (ie do swap with Abegweit) or do you want skip?

I'm unable to play at present - my main computer seized up in power surge (in middle of GOTM) and now I cant even turn it on to get the civ disk out - I'm off to the store to get it repaired. I'm hopeful they can retrieve my disk today.

 

[Own]

I'm up in another SG, if you can get it by tomorrow no need for a swap.

 

[Andronicus]

Got it -the save and my civ CD. will play soon