SGOTM8 - Wacken

doesnt that just mean we need an airport on another island so we can transport a unit there every turn ?

We should probably use that a lot. Infantry is just so crappy to use.

I think we should use a group of about 20-30 bombers to lay down enemy cities. Then use 2 helicopters to move in 6 infantry units.
Then cashrush an airport and move in tanks.
 
OK guys I am up to turn 8 now. At the gates of Beijing. FP is built and we generate 349 commerce. I stopped to get input on the tech issue actually. The AI is up all first tier techs. Only Rome has Engineering and is demanding a forbidding price for it. However, we can get it researched in 4 turn at -55gpt and hopefully trade with it. Or continue with Monotheism and have it in 4 turns too. Two AI have Mono so we could possibly trade for Feudalism with either. I am leaning towards continuing with Mono but a gamble would be to drop the 100+ shields generated towards Monotheism and go for Engineering.

Your opinion?

EDIT: OK Mono it is!
 
The other techs are not so important for us now. We don't need engineering, we don't need chivalry, we don't even really need feudalism. We will get those later when we sell them education.

They will go on to research invention and gunpowder with it. Remember these are huge favorites for the AI. We do not want to research these ourselves.
If you swich to engineering now, we risk not being able to trade monotheism and then we have a completely wasted research. Hopefully they will trade on engineering so we are more sure invention and gunpowder will be researched.

I would just go on with mono and then to education. Education will be tradable for everything they have.

Bejing is on hills, please be carefull there. at least 10+ archers needed IMO.
 
Shouldn't we avoid taking Bejing and wait until China builds a wonder there to make our GA happen...
Weren't they building a wonder there or have i missed something again?
 
OK, will continue with Mono then. I have 12 Archers next to Beijing, Did not dare attack this turn with the 8 that was already there. Keep your fingers crossed.

Re Beijing, a couple of tuerns earlier they cascaded to Sun Tzu's so we can take it without any regrets. The GL went into Roman lands...
 
dmanakho said:
Shouldn't we avoid taking Bejing and wait until China builds a wonder there to make our GA happen...
Weren't they building a wonder there or have i missed something again?
Click to expand...

I think at least offa and i don't really care much about having our GA early anymore :)
Don't know about wotan..

Oh Sun Tsu is nice, thats 10 or so less barracks to build for us :D
Bejing also has a wonder that should become a tourist attraction somewhere around 300 AD :goodjob:
 
Sun's is very nice for us. We need all the free buildings we can get. I would also recommend we look at starting a Copernicus prebuild in Philly. It's 400 shields so we need to estimate how long till Astro.

The other MA wonder I prefer is Smith's. It will save us loads of cash into the IA as it will make all markets, banks, SE's, Airports, harbors, and commercial docks free. That could be at least 10gpt per coastal city. Probably worth more in gpt savings than Newtons would add to research, especially after Flight is researched. However, maybe we can get both :hmm:

Sounds like some good :hammer: there Wotan :) and nice set Xevious, though I think I missed the memo about turning off research :confused:
 
grahamiam said:
Sun's is very nice for us. We need all the free buildings we can get. I would also recommend we look at starting a Copernicus prebuild in Philly. It's 400 shields so we need to estimate how long till Astro.

The other MA wonder I prefer is Smith's. It will save us loads of cash into the IA as it will make all markets, banks, SE's, Airports, harbors, and commercial docks free. That could be at least 10gpt per coastal city. Probably worth more in gpt savings than Newtons would add to research, especially after Flight is researched. However, maybe we can get both :hmm:

Sounds like some good :hammer: there Wotan :) and nice set Xevious, though I think I missed the memo about turning off research :confused:
Click to expand...

I don't think (or hope) we will ever have banks. Markets maybe. Commercial docks are too late. Advanced flight must be game over, so i hope we wont build docks either.

We don't have time to build all that stuff either.

After wotan, 30 more turns to get to industrial age. During those 30 turns, we can do a little more units, conquer the rest of our island and ICS it, get our second core up to size with harbors and libraries and build universities in our first core.

Industrial age then will be another 60 turns or so to get trough the research. During the first 20 of those we can build factories, during the last 20 we can probably start building units. Leaves about a 20 turn gap in between to do something else.

leaves harbors, and probably markets. Airports will also be build at a point where commerce has lost almost all its value and production is all we need.
I don't think smiths is gonna have much value.
 
We had some friends pay us a surprise visit so a small delay, but I have finished my turns now.
I agree with a late GA, it will surely be more valueable to us later in the game with fully developed cities and we do have to wait for Helicopters anyway so...
wackenchina.JPG

Turn log

0 – 150BC
Nothing

IBT: Chinese Archer move out of Shanghai.

1 – 130BC
Washington builds Archer, Settler started.

Resistance in Tsingtao ends. Japanese starts on Sun Tzu’s.

IBT: Chinese Archer attack our forces next to Shanghai, it dies and our Archer ends up at 2 HP.

2 – 110BC
Atlanta builds Worker, Worker started.

Shanghai captured. 1st Archer unscathed and promotes to Elite. 2nd Archer Redlined but capture Shanghai. Horses connected to Washington!!!

IBT: Athens finish building the Great Lighthouse, it could help us though… Since it will allow us to rush all types of units in cities on distant shores via sea connects. Nanking finish Mausoleum of Mausollos. All cascades to Great Wall and Sun Tzu’s…

3 – 90BC
Xinjiang captured but it cost us 2 units… 2 Spear and 1 Archer defending. My primary turn set mission is accomplished. Will expand and try to take Canton too Beijing should be allowed to build TGL before falling… Then we sue for peace and grab whatever locations we can.

IBT: Trondheim finish building The Great Wall. No other cascades…

4 – 70BC
Washington builds Settler, HM started.
NY builds Barracks, HM started.
Boston builds Library, Harbour started.
Philadelphia builds Barracks, HM started.
Atlanta builds Worker, Aqueduct started.
Seattle builds Harbour, HM started.

Consolidating and recuperating, next turn I start the move on Canton.

IBT: Rome finish building Temple of Artemis and The Great Library. We sure have some back luck on getting GWs on our own island… Beijing cascades to Sun Tsu’s, we simply cannot wait for it to finish before taking Beijing we are talking about some 20-30 turns for them to finish it.

5 – 50BC
Nothing major

6 – 30BC
Washington builds HM, HM started.
Chicago builds Library, HM started.

IBT: Barbs appear near Shimonoseki. Poor japs, they must have popped a GH with Barbs…

7 – 10BC
NY builds HM, Settler started.
Philadelphia builds HM, HM started.

The GH gave us a map!!! Hurrah!!! We are so lucky… ;)
Canton captured, a single defender?? 2 Workers captured.
BTW, 1 shield left to produce in SF…

8 – 10AD
Washington builds HM, HM started.
SF builds FP!!!!, Barracks started.

New Orleans founded, Aqueduct started.

We can lower the lux slide to 30% and will finish Monotheism in 4 turns.

9 – 30AD
Seattle HM, HM started.

Beijing falls, three defending Spearmen, we lose 5 Archers taking it. That puts my grand total of losses at 7 units.

10 – 50AD
Washington builds HM, HM started.
NY builds Settler, HM started.
Chicago builds HM, HM started.

After action report:
Settler in position SE Beijing to settle next turn. Another Settler in the mountains heading north.


Monotheism in 2 turns. Greece is still missing it and have feudalism to trade for. Hopefully that will still be the case in two turns but make sure you try to trade on “the big screen” just in case they get it the very same turn.

Builds everywhere is open to changes. In the north I just kept producing something with a finish date beyond my turn set. Xinjiang would benefit from a culture building so it can use more forests to cut and get the oyster within its borders.

8 turns left of war with China. They are prepared to part with 3 locations for peace ATM. If we take Nanking the capital would move to Chengdu now so I would advise against taking Nanking now. If Macao grows so it gets bigger than Chengdu it is quite a different ballgame and that would also put the Chinese capital far north.

I guess what we need to do now is just wait for either Macao to outgrow Chengdu or wait for 8 turns so we can take some Chinese towns in a settlement and immediately go to war with Greece. We need to get access to the iron in the north.

7 units lost during my turnset.
 
Looks nice :)

I see a scientist in Boston, does that have a very special reason? If that guy works a coastal tile, he will also be happy.

Also would i prefer to increase philly's production at the cost of Boston by using all available tiles for philly.

Philly really should be size 12 to optimise its commerce income. I assume those 2 workers are there to be joined in philly ?

Please make some settlers to ICS the chinese ground. Stsingtao can provide 2 scientists now, every city we build there will provide 2 more.
Washinton, and SF can skim settlers to keep their food at use after size 12.

In the captured chinese cities i think we should only build workers and settlers. If we grow shanghai to size 12, it will produce ~30 commerce, leaving ~12 commerce after corruption to be divided over tax, lux and science. Scientists can probably do the same thing or better with 12 tiles worth of ICS.

The 'raxes in SF and StDman should IMO be libraries. Science is our priority.

StDman can produce workers when size 6 is reached so that these can be joined to other cities that are bigger than 6.

I would have prefered Atlanta to continue producing workers for joining. When i mentioned an aquaduct earlier, i was thinking about rushbuilding one after first producing a dozen more workers or so. Building an aquaduct like this wastes loads of growth opportunity as the city now makes 1 fpt and soon maxes at size 6. I prefered to keep building workers and when money is available, buy the aquaduct and then grow to size 12.
I think it is best now to rushbuild the aquaduct asap continue producing workers in Atlanta.

NY can be a 2 turn worker factory. I think it should do that now. Growth has priority over units and we have enough cities producing units.

China will also pay engineering for peace ! (Engineering + Hangchow + shantung)

The real interesting thing about oversea cities IMO is to get on that chinese/greek island to take the luxury there. With greece, we will have another chance to try and get Corinth.

Also can we soon start (pre)building universities in some of our first core cities. Do so as soon as you think we have enough units.

To capture the most important issue shortly:
30 turns from now, we need THREE times the research we have now. We must keep growth at a maximum. No food can be wasted, all cities that can get food must use it. If not by growing themselves, then by building workers.

25-30 turns from now, we should have all cities size 12.
with StDman, NewYork and Atlanta all producing workers in 2, , that is very possible !
 
Wacken
Xevious
Wotan -> just played
Dman -> up (and i have it)
Offa -> on deck
Grahamiam


Will play tomorrow night. Plenty of time for discussions.
 
The science dude, I did not check him on the final turn. The turn before he was needed as Boston would riot with him on a tile.

Philly, yes there are two Workers next to Philly ready to join Philly next turn. I forgot to mention in my turn. And Boston only need to use the files for two more turns, just to finish the Harbour with a "perfect" set of shields.

Rax in SF is just a "stop gap" thing. After it si finished a Settler and then Library (at least that was my plan).

Hopefully China will be as generous when we can sue for peace...

IMPORTANT EDIT: Wait two turns to rushbuild aqueduct, we need to know what price we have to pay for feudalism from Greece and we need cash for any gold part they demand else we cannot go to war with them so try to leave what gold is in the "till" until after trading mono for feudalism with greece!
 
Wotan said:
Philly, yes there are two Workers next to Philly ready to join Philly next turn. I forgot to mention in my turn. And Boston only need to use the files for two more turns, just to finish the Harbour with a "perfect" set of shields.

Rax in SF is just a "stop gap" thing. After it si finished a Settler and then Library (at least that was my plan).

Hopefully China will be as generous when we can sue for peace...
Click to expand...

that sounds good.
 
The Greeks have no spare wine to trade. As they seem to have no harbor, this must mean that they are using ours! The cheek. It would be nice to disconnect that route, which would cause lots of nice things to happen, not least being that we could trade for some wine when we reconnect the road :) .

Hangchow would be nice, together with a town on the spice island.
There is a potential to conquer these islands, although it would involve a lot of cash, that would probably be better spent on research. Taking some of the roman towns near Hangchow at some point could allow us to get a toehold on the main Roman island in a peace deal. It is all very appetizing to try a conquest that way, and might well be a good method at Regent: it is less likely to be practical here.
 
We cannot make peace with China until our MA with Greece expires. And when it does expire we should go to war with Greece so please make no deals involving gpts or resources with them. When we go to war with Greece (8-10 turns time) their line through our ports will be cut so we just need to wait for that to happen.
 
About the other islands:

We can certainly not spend the cash needed to conquer those islands.

The advantage we do have when we get a city is that we do not need to use bombers and choppers/paratroopers for that island. Instead, when we are there to conquer the world, we can immeadiately rush the airport and start moving tanks. If we have that on 2 islands, it is merely a small advantage since we will then still need a bomber force capable of laying a city in ruins. If however we manage to get a city on every island, we would not need bombers anymore at all and that might be quite an advantage. Even then however, maybe bombers will be so good that we would like to use them even if it weren't islands.

For the spices, i think we should now take 1 chinese city on that island. We cannot expect to do much with it, but it can someday build a harbor. Then later, we can try to get the Greek city on the spices and connect the 2 together to get the spices to our homeland.

We must however note that when we get a chinese city there and then go to war with the greek, they might attack it. Also do we need to be sure to stay out of the circle that increases corruption for our second core.
 
I have been thinking about the future research a bit again.

We should note when the AI gets Invention, they will surely follow with gunpowder. we need to estimate when they will be ready with gunpowder.

in 12 turns we will have education. If gunpower is not expected to be more than 8 or so turns away from us finishing education, we should gift them education before they finish gunpowder. This will enable for them astronomy.

While not a virtualy sure research like gunpowder, it is a significant favorit for the AI. We can then research Banking, trade it for gunpowder, then research chemistry and trade that for astronomy.

After that, we research physics and follow-ups and they will research metallurgy for us.

In the industrial age we need to set goals:
Our goals are replacable parts for marines, electronics for the hoover dam(with ToE included of course) flight for Bombers and advanced flight for choppers.

Nationalism is a huge favorite for the AI, they will research it, we will trade it. We can then build some Riflemen, these can be upgraded to infantry for a low price and used to capture the cities that are bombed empty and then to guard the conquerd cities. We cannot transport these units before advanced flight anyway, so it does not matter when we upgrade them and replacable parts is no longer a goal.

Without good production we won't produce many units anyway, so Electronics i think is the first goal. Flight cancels the colossus and thus slows our research thus that i think is the last goal. Leaves Motorized in the middle.

Besides nationalism, Replacable parts and Flight are the huge favorites for the AI. Combustion is a small favorite. Steel and Atomic theory they will not research.

When we gifted Greece into the Industial, and the have gotten nationalism, they are most likely to research Steam Power. It then depends on how our research speed and that of the AI is what we should do. If we are slower than 4 turn research and the AI is not expected to take more than 10 turns for its research, we could first research Medicine, wait for the AI to finish it's research, hope they done Steam Power, trade for steam power and use the gold accumulated during waiting on research deficit.

After that, i think we should do Industrialisation for factories, then not wait for the AI and go straight for Electronics, gifting the AI electricity so they will research replacable parts.
From ToE we must take the expensive techs Atomic theory and Electronics. So we need to get 2 pre buids well in time to complete these 2 wonders right after eachother when we get there.

While they reseach replacing parts, we research to combustion. Sell it to them imeadiately so they will start flight, and get motorized transport. If they can research at half our speed, they will have flight when we have motorized. Requested is that we keep the AI so up to date as posibble so that it will waste no time and gets many chances to research the optional techs. If it runs perfectly, they must have no other choises than mass production and flight when we give them combustion.

If they research slower than half our speed, we can wait 2*our research time - 8 to a maximum of our research time for them to complete.
 
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