How Would You Implement A Classic Mode?

[Gedemon]

I refuse to talk about things in terms of "can or cant be done". When i talk about Classic Mode, i talk about what i think NEEDS to be done

If you asked me 5 years ago if rockets can be recovered after launch i would have told you that its impossible

To me, Classic Mode need to be free of interruptions, it needs to be a smooth fluid sandbox experience. Its not my job to tell Firaxis how they need to do technically.

I work in Development and "that cant be done" often means it would take more time than its worth. I think even if it takes them months to change the Engine to allow that, it would be time well expended

it just took 70 years from Tintin to SpaceX

can't be done for civ7 means exactly what you mean: more dev time than it's worth, if things are at this point, better start from scratch and call the result civ8.

people here hope for a game option for civ7, one available in one of the expansion, not a rushed civ8 in 5-6 years (at best) while civ7 will be left dying by lack of new content.

I'm not sure about this. I think the Modern Age is perfectly capable of bearing the asset load of all three ages.

just google civ6 asset limit, and I've not found any evidence that they changed their game's engine.

Just put all the techs etc in Antiquity.

then code a new UI to handle them. copy all units. buildings. modifiers. well basically merge the 3 databases, referencing all assets.

and then try to launch the result.

if it works (at least on a gaming PC), congrats, that's one of the case where I'd be very happy to be proven wrong, would give me some hope that I could have fun playing/modding civ7 at some point.

ho, you'll need to rebalance everything after that.

 

[Gori the Grey]

2. Have there be Narrative Quests in one age about the civ swap (or even the Legacy options) that will happen on the Age Transition.

If I understand correctly what you're driving at here, the narrative events in late antiquity would be "explaining" why it is that the Han are in the process of turning into the Shawnee. That's fine, but in order to create such narrative events, the game would have to know what civ the player means to transition to at 650, sometime well before year 650.

 

[Maiq]

people here hope for a game option for civ7, one available in one of the expansion, not a rushed civ8 in 5-6 years (at best) while civ7 will be left dying by lack of new content.

Speak for yourself sir.

 

[Crashdummy]

can't be done for civ7 means exactly what you mean: more dev time than it's worth, if things are at this point, better start from scratch and call the result civ8.

people here hope for a game option for civ7, one available in one of the expansion, not a rushed civ8 in 5-6 years (at best) while civ7 will be left dying by lack of new content.

I think there are more people hoping for a Classic Mode without age transitions and civ switching that the ones hoping for merely cosmetic changes that dont fix those issues, but i guess i cant really know for sure

I think the Continuity option is Firaxis trying to do what you claim people were hoping for, and its just not working

In my opinion, any solution that doesnt get rid of ages transitions and civ switching will fail like the continuity option did and will just be a waste of resources, so the only worth option is spending whatever resources are needed to do whats really needed

 

[tman2000]

just google civ6 asset limit, and I've not found any evidence that they changed their game's engine.

Why wouldn't they have a new engine for a new game? Doesn't the Modern Age already have to include assets from all ages?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I think there are more people hoping for a Classic Mode without age transitions and civ switching that the ones hoping for merely cosmetic changes that dont fix those issues, but i guess i cant really know for sure

I think the Continuity option is Firaxis trying to do what you claim people were hoping for, and its just not working

In my opinion, any solution that doesnt get rid of ages transitions and civ switching will fail like the continuity option did and will just be a waste of resources, so the only worth option is spending whatever resources are needed to do whats really needed

I've said it before, I don't think we are that far from agreement.

In the above statement, for instance, I think you are more than half right: Age transitions and Age-mandated Civ switching needs to go: Civ switching itself should be Optional and subject to the gamer's decision based on what is happening in his/her specific game with his/her specific Civ.

I think the game needs not Just a 'Classic Mode', but the Option to play a continuous Civ from start to finish OR transition to another Civ under varying conditions - NOT including an invisible and Mandatory switch hidden behind an Age transition that is arbitrary in that it occurs regardless of how your game is going and is equally disastrous to everybody regardless of how well or poorly your Civ is doing.

IF all we get is a reversion to Civ IV/V/VI, then the franchise is truely Dead: turning Civ into a Retro game is a dead end design-wise, IMHO.

A game with both could be marketed as giving the gamer their choice of play: fight to maintain your Civ through Hull and High Water, or find ways to build a Civ that is, in the end, a medley of several Civs/cultures that went before.

How difficult something like that would be to Code, I haven't a clue - the last computer language I learned officially was FORTRAN, which I think counts as Paleolithic Programming these days. No matter how difficult, though, it's worth at least exploring, because I think the result would be worth playing for the maximum number of gamers.

 

[Gedemon]

Speak for yourself sir.

I'm absolutely certain no-one want a rushed civ8 after seeing the state of civ7 at release.

now, I have no doubt some want civ7 to die ASAP, they are vocal enough. But that won't give us civ8, that will give us no more civ.

Why wouldn't they have a new engine for a new game? Doesn't the Modern Age already have to include assets from all ages?

why would they need to change it every time ?

but... I've looked at the debugger, and I'm wrong, the assets for all ages seems to be loaded in each age. So that's not it.

 

[Krikkit1]

If I understand correctly what you're driving at here, the narrative events in late antiquity would be "explaining" why it is that the Han are in the process of turning into the Shawnee. That's fine, but in order to create such narrative events, the game would have to know what civ the player means to transition to at 650, sometime well before year 650.

Well the Narrative events would explain why the player Might turn into Shawnee (quests Triggered because they unlocked Shawnee)...
other ones would explain why they Might turn into Normans (Triggered because they unlocked Normans)

The reward for the quersts would be culture for the respective civs unique civics... so if you pursue the Shawnee quest and then choose Normans, no reward...
of course you could fullfill both quests and then you would be well positioned whatever you chose later in the game, but it would have a chance for the player to start "playing the transition"

 

[Maiq]

now, I have no doubt some want civ7 to die ASAP, they are vocal enough. But that won't give us civ8, that will give us no more civ.

As people keep saying, they are in no danger of closing the studio down. 8 will still happen

 

[Gedemon]

As people keep saying, they are in no danger of closing the studio down. 8 will still happen

and at least two extensions will happen. I bet both will still have ages transition, at best civ switching will be optional by then.

 

[ColtSeavers]

and at least two extensions will happen. I bet both will still have ages transition, at best civ switching will be optional by then.

What makes you so sure about that?

 

[stealth_nsk]

As people keep saying, they are in no danger of closing the studio down. 8 will still happen

Studio will not be closed, but franchise will be thrown to garbage if one game won't receive proper support. It's an image thing - the leading franchise can't afford it.

and at least two extensions will happen. I bet both will still have ages transition, at best civ switching will be optional by then.

I don't see optional civilization switch either - dedicating resources to design fictional civilization bonuses is not something I see Firaxis doing (the whole age-based civilization thing was to represent them historically, not creating some ahistorical fantasy), and I also don't see Firaxis letting people play civilizations without bonuses.

More likely are the solutions which were already in this thread. One is the mode where you pick and keep civilization name and city list, but still choose "cultures" with their uniques. Second is the scenario framework for modders to do something if they want. I actually expect Firaxis to do both at some point.

 

[Maiq]

Studio will not be closed, but franchise will be thrown to garbage if one game won't receive proper support. It's an image thing - the leading franchise can't afford it.

I would argue they are throwing it to the garbage by letting it continuing to be something that the fans have resoundingly said "No" to.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I would argue they are throwing it to the garbage by letting it continuing to be something that the fans have resoundingly said "No" to.

Let's say we disagree on interpreting fans reaction.

 

[Maiq]

Let's say we disagree on interpreting fans reaction.

Reviews, sales and player counts not enough?

 

[stealth_nsk]

Reviews, sales and player counts not enough?

It was discussed multiple times in the relevant thread. Reviews are the only real problem. We don't have any negative information on sales and simultaneous player count is not an informative metric for single player games (definitely not something to indicate fan reaction).

Also, your post suggests that the negative reviews come from core problems of Civ7, while review text analysis suggests it's more the problem with unpolished game state than with core gameplay.

 

[Gedemon]

What makes you so sure about that?

development time.

 

[Maiq]

development time.

Beyond Earth

 

[Gedemon]

Beyond Earth

hmm, maybe, but that one was planned, and released as a separate game.

similar option to a rushed civ8 release IMO.

 

[ColtSeavers]

development time.

Sunk costs, if the first DLC doesn't sell well, they won't throw good money after bad, no matter how much they have invested before!