SGOTM8 - Wacken

[AlanH]

Welcome to your game thread. Please use it and subscribe to it. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game here, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

The starting saves will become available on the SGOTM Progress and Results page on August 5, midnight, server local time.

Thanks go to Gyathaar for coming up with the variant and developing the map.

The variant is Hydrophobic Conquest. You are America, your goal is to conquer your archipelago world, and you are afraid of water.

The rules are simple:

1. You will build no boats. Seaborne units are all disabled for America.
3. You must win by Conquest. America must be the only civ standing at the end of your game.
4. Red and Gold Laurels will be awarded respectively to the members of the C3C and Classic teams achieving the fastest conquests.
5. PTW and Vanilla teams are not permitted to leader rush Great Wonders before 1000 BC in this game

Here's the start:

​

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - America
Opponents - Six, preselected
World size - 80 wide by 80 high. (Small)
Difficulty - Emperor, or possibly Monarch. Subject to final play testing,
Landform - Archipelago
Barbarians - Raging

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Game mods:
- America can't build boats. The AI can.
- All victory conditions are available except Diplomatic and Spaceship.
- Settlers, workers, scouts, explorers, leaders, cruise missiles and tactical nukes can be loaded into helicopters.
- A side effect is AIs can load tactical nukes into any boat with transport capacity ... so beware
- Bombers have lethal sea bombard only (lethal land bombard removed)
- Cruise missiles, stealth bombers and F-15 have both lethal sea and land bombard.

Additional change:
- C3C will use the same contact and map trading rules as Classic. Contacts can be traded between two civs when one of them knows Writing. Maps can be traded between two civs when one of them knows MapMaking.

The SGOTM Mediterranean resources are included in this game. If you have played SGOTM 7 then you will be ready. If not you may need to download and unzip a small graphics mod pack. Vanilla/Mac players need to install the GOTM mods. The best way to achieve this is to use the relevant All-in-one GOTM Installer for your OS, linked in my signature.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game. Vanilla players in particular should understand the late-game equalisation modifications that we don't often have to worry about.

The GOTM Reference Thread.
SGOTM Reference Thread.

Notes:

A. The Classic (Play the World and vanilla 1.29) versions of Civ3 AND Conquests version 1.22 (C3C) are all supported in this game. Because of the different game play, Classic and C3C teams will play for separate awards.
B. All teams must play the sponsored variant.
C. You MUST play from the start file assigned to your team. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Good timing !

I will be going to Wacken Open Air within 1 hour. Will be back 8 august.

 

[grahamiam]

spam, no I mean, tag!

well, we need to do some analysis here as the starting position is quite interesting. btw, what does the sheep/dog/mutton do? I'm guessing it's +1f, (like wine) but not sure.

Most likely the 1st worker move is to the sheep thingie. If we agree on that (and we should think about it thoroughly), then we should move, save, and post another pic so we can decide if the settler stays or moves.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Before i go, a few things:

Previously you have seen me advocate a rather tight build. I normally am happy with core cities maxing at size 10 or so. This time is slightly different. All core cities must be size 12. Mountain tiles not included.

The objective of this game will be to research to end industrial as fast as we can. We must make the very best of the commerce we can. This means 2 things:
-We must have our cities size 12, no less for corruption reasons.
-We must utilise every coastal tile posible.

For a large part of the game, production will be much less important than commerce. The coastal cities will all use like 6 or even more sea tiles and thus have very low production, but good science. With this low production, beware to start aquaducts well in advance of size6 and granaries even earlier if possible.

The collosus is the one wonder to think about here IMO, but since the AI most likely goes straight for it, it might be not reasonably possible. If not yet done before i am back, i shall do some calculations on what the expected rewards are in comparison to the investment.

Of course, you know i am a farmer and if it is possible to get a 4 turn factory running with flood plane, i think we should do so.

I do not assume we are alone on an island this time. If we do find an enemy, conquering it has priority over building libraries. Step 1 is to conquer our island. Then move up on that technology.

What are our starting tech's?
Who are our opponents?
What are our chances for republic slingshot ?

 

[grahamiam]

we will need to work 3 irrigate FP's to get up to +5fpt.

Another item to consider, we start with a scout. Where to send? Mountain while the worker goes to the mutton?

edit: EXP and IND are our traits, and we will need our worker to be very busy.

 

[Wotan]

Another item to consider, we start with a scout. Where to send? Mountain while the worker goes to the mutton?

That must be the only sensible choice. The Worker probably to mutton and settle in place, but the scout might open up something to make us move the settler a tile or two... Maybe settle on plains SE or even desert S?

If you want to, I could put this baby in motion when it is time to start playing. The roster we used last game worked pretty goo in my opinion so why not stick to the same order?

 

[grahamiam]

That's fine with me, Wotan. I ran thru the calculators during lunch, and it looks like our expansion will not be so "explosive" this time with what we see. If a bg is under the forest SE of the mutton, then we can do a settler every 5T (with some MM'ing). If not, then it's a 6 turn factory at best. At least, that's if I've assumed correctly that the mutton acts like wines in a normal game.

edit: seems like it acts like game with a +2 food (I assume it's a lamb) -> http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=56874

but, then, you have the despot penalty to consider. Can anyone make a map using that resource and find out what it does when irrigated and mined in despotism?

 

[Wotan]

I am leaning towards putting Washington on the plains SE (or maybe in the desert). We will have 3 FP tiles and will open up 5 forested grassland tiles for it. That would also open up for a location on the coast NW of our starting position next to the river.

Settling on the hills seems to be wrong though.

 

[dmanakho]

I am here and it is good to see all of you back...

on my way to work, will post my thoughts later today... I reckon we are not in hurry since half of our team isn't here yet anyway.

 

[grahamiam]

can we agree that we need to move the worker to the muton and then take a screenie? depending on what the worker sees on the other side of the lake, we can move the scout to the mountain (W 2x) or somewhere else. Also, before we finish turn 0, we should run thru some calc's to determine our 1st build and also set our research priority.

Finally, I will try to make a dummy save tonight with the muton to ensure that it does act like a game under despotism.

 

[Xevious]

You can see the two green dots on the right of the lamb, which indicates +2 food bonus. It's sitting on plains, so as it stands it is 3f/1s which is 2f/1s under despot, and means it will gain food or shield from irrigation or mining.

As for moving the worker first, I would rather move the scout first. Moving the scout will uncover considerably more squares and if we some much better land to the west I would hate to have to move the worker even farther to get to it.

 

[grahamiam]

I always get confused with food bonuses on plains Wines especially. but I think your right.

taking that into account, we can get a granery by turn 19 and the 1st settler by turn 27 (as per Offa's SS, also assumes a BG under the forest, which is not guarenteed). Pretty slow, and I think it's slower if we mine the mutton. Someone else should check this as I can be error-prone

 

[Wotan]

Save is available. Do you want me to move Scout to mountain and post a picture? It would hopefully help our discussions.

 

[grahamiam]

sounds good to me.

 

[Wotan]

OK, we have officially started the game. I moved the scout and nothing better than what we have in our immediate area turned up so I moved the Worker to the mutton. I would really advocate settling on the plains SE of the hills.

Do we irrigate (or mine) the mutton? One BG showed up in the city sphere if we move one tile. 3 Forest grasslands, the question is if any of them are bg's?
So we might have as little as one BG.

 

[grahamiam]

Don't move yet, let's run some numbers on Offa's SS and see what we want to do with the muton.

 

[Wotan]

I have no intention of moving the settler until we agree on starting location and a build plan. But our discussions are hepled by opening up the map a bit and the two moves were sort of "no brainers". Playing the first turnset is basically just a question of being a well behaved puppet...

 

[grahamiam]

Is the tile S of the current settler position a desert or flood plain?
sorry, I see from the 1st post it's a desert

 

[Xevious]

As for settling location, the plains is probably good since it's right next to the lambs for early growth, but I hate having that desert tile be worked. I would much rather settle on the desert to avoid having that bad tile around the rest of the game. Hmmm, but if we settle on desert we only have access to one grass forest. The plains gives us access to 3 grass forests we can cut looking for BG while hurrying a granary. So, yeah I guess I'd have to agree that the SE plains is a good settle spot. We would want to leave the forest SW of the lake for the extra 2 shields on every growth.

 

[Wotan]

Plains then and leave a plains forest for 2spt when pop expands. Then it is a question of using Offa's SS to streamline the initial phase of the game. I will see if I can have a go at planning it this afternoon. Will post a proposal when done. Please do alternative build plans so we can compare and discuss them.