SGOTM8 - Wacken

[dmanakho]

I don't want to settle on desert...
That will place city one tile away from the shore. I'd rather have a coastal city with harbor. I suggest we move settler 1tile SE and settle there.
I don't think we should worry about having 4-5 turn settler factory in this game.
We aren't going to expand beyond our island until the end of Industrial ages.
It would be nice to have as many pop 12 cities as we can to maximize the science. Wacken already mentioned this previously and i agree with him.
The only problem with those pop 12 cities would be keeping citizens under control. Because if we don't have lux sources we will have to use slider therefore limiting our science output.

 

[Xevious]

I don't want to settle on desert...
That will place city one tile away from the shore. I'd rather have a coastal city with harbor. I suggest we move settler 1tile SE and settle there.
I don't think we should worry about having 4-5 turn settler factory in this game.
We aren't going to expand beyond our island until the end of Industrial ages.
It would be nice to have as many pop 12 cities as we can to maximize the science. Wacken already mentioned this previously and i agree with him.
The only problem with those pop 12 cities would be keeping citizens under control. Because if we don't have lux sources we will have to use slider therefore limiting our science output.

So we'll need temples and cathedrals and some happiness wonders. We're going to be mostly builder for much of the first half of the game anyway.

We can't get a 4 turn factory under despotism. Even with 3 BGs, an irrigated lamb and two irrigated flood plains the best we can do is 28 shields in 4 turns.

5 turn is possible, using the first two turns for growth and the last 3 for shields, but even then I'd guess we'll need more BG then whats showing (haven't got time to calculate further this morning).

 

[grahamiam]

ok, I've screwed off at work and did some calcs with Offa's SS. here's what I come up with. Not too great, but all we need is one more bg and we'll be a factory if we irrigate the muton.

 

[grahamiam]

I disagree, Xevious.

CC = 2f, 1s
2 FP irr = 6 f, 0s
2 BG mined = 4f, 4s
1 irr muton plain = 3f, 1s

So, at size 5, you have 15 f (+5fpt) and 6 shields

Add 1 irr plain (2f, 1s) at size 6 gives us 17f (+5fpt) and 7spt. this is a settler factory with 2 size 5 turns and 2 size 6 turns. Shield output is 6, 8 (6+2 extra from forest), 7, 9 (7+2 extra from forest) = 30 (hurrying too much )

edit: added SS for reference and checking

 

[Wotan]

I like your plan Grahamiam and wouldn't mind using it if it is OK with Dman and Xevious. Offa and Wacken will be back after the Weekend so I guess we are on our own for the first couple of turn sets. Lets gamble on at least one of the forest grasslands being BG.

 

[USMC]

Hello all, If it's OK with you I'll be lurking and trying to learn as much as I can. I hope to join a SGOTM soon, but still need to improve before joining a team. If it's not too much trouble ( I have no idea how much work is invovled) could you post a screenshot every so often? Good luck!

 

[dmanakho]

I'd say lets stick with G-Man's plan.
we can always adjust details later in the game.

I'd say Go for it Wotan and we will discuss next players turnset after the Offa and Wacken return.

What's our roster??? Wotan, could you come up with one since you are playing the 1st turn set.

@USMC: You are welcome to lurk and our team always tries to put as many pictures as we can . But 1st we have to make sure you are not spying for other guys.

 

[USMC]

Spying is unthinkable...it just wouldn't be Cricket now would it? Would it matter anyway? I mean, you folks are gonna mop the floor with the others aren't you? If you insist, I will submit a blood sample and a retina scan, but that's all.

 

[grahamiam]

welcome USMC No spying whatsoever is allowed, so please do not provide comments or suggests on movements as we have no idea what other threads you are lurking in. And keep your blood to yourself Also, at this point, we are no more likely to win this than any other team, as past accomplishments mean squat

For turns, I suggest we follow the previous game's roster as we were able to move very quickly. I'll post it in a second.

Suggested roster:
Wacken
Xevious
Wotan -> UP
Dman -> on deck
Offa
Grahamiam

 

[Xevious]

That's what I get for posting on vacation. I have no civ with me so I completely forgot about the 1s from the city center. Sorry about that. You are absolutely right that we only need one more BG.

 

[Wotan]

Was just about to start playing again when I came to think about research. So what are we going to start research on? Alphabet 100%? Or CB? Or The Wheel?

 

[grahamiam]

well, we have Pot and Mas, so I guess Alpha makes sense. Depends on the opponents whether or not we have slingshot chance, but starting with alpha at least keeps the door open on the possibility.

 

[AlanH]

No SGOTM would be complete without at least one screw-up This one's down to me.

The Bug

Those who played SGOTM7 may recall that the C3C Differential Naval Movement implementation was faulty. Ships still had the strange C3C default of ignoring movement cost on Sea tiles, so they treated sea as ocean, and were able to surf around the offshore waters at speed. Well, guess who forgot to get this fixed before SGOTM8

The Impact

"Why would Hydrophobic Americans with no boats care?", I hear someone ask. Well the AI will probably have a point of view about your plans for world conquest, and their fast-moving ships could be a source of later-game problems for you.

The Cure

I therefore propose to edit the C3C team saves to correct this potential problem and restore the Sea movement cost to 2 instead of 1. To do this I need you to pause your play after you upload your next file, and PM to let me know it is available for editing. I'll endeavour to fix it, and let you know, within 24 hours so that you can continue your game. If your current save on the server has not been downloaded and played then let me know and I can, of course, fix it immediately.

I apologise for this oversight and any resulting inconvenience.

 

[Wotan]

Ok, guys. As always plans sort of survive just until you start using them. This happened in our game. Two Workers from GHs made our plans obsolete.

I guess Dman is up now. Grahamiam on deck. (Offa on holidays first two weeks in august) AlanH will let you know when the save has been edited.

Turn log

0 – 4000BC
Scout to mountain, Worker to lamb as planned. Stop to let the team discuss the map.
F10 is disabled but F11 gives the five top cities so we know Rome, Greece, Scandy, China and England are in the game.
Settler to Plains SE.

1 – 3950BC
Washington founded, Warrior started.
Scout spots a GH. Worker irrigate
Research set to Alphabet at 100%.

2 – 3900BC
GH gave a Worker!!! Worker move towards Washington and reveals another GH!!!
So much for our plans for Washington. Now we will be able to work the lands faster!

3 – 3850BC
Nothing major.

4 – 3800BC
GH gave another Worker. Now we will definitely get quick development of Washington.

IBT: Barb. appears southeast of Washington.

5 – 3750BC
Nothing major

6 – 3700BC
Washington builds Warrior, Granary started.

7 – 3650BC
GH spotted.

8 – 3600BC
GH gave us BW.

9 – 3550BC
Barb.Warrior killed. Washington size 2, require 20% lux since Warrior is out chasing Barbarians. Washington now +4fpt

10 – 3500BC
Forest chopped, no BG.
GH gave WC.

11 – 3450BC
Nothing major.

12 – 3400BC
Warrior back in Washington, Lux back to 0%.

13 – 3350BC
GH spotted.

14 – 3300BC
GH gave CB.
Washington Size 3. Lux 20%

15 - 3250BC
GH spotted.

16 - 3200BC
Nothing major.

17 – 3150BC
Chinese Warrior pop the GH I was just about to pop… . Damn! Disappointed!!! They are up Alphabet, WC and The Wheel. We are up CB. We have 53 shields left to research on Alphabet. I trade CB for Alphabet from them and start researching Writing.
1 Worker joins Washington.

18 – 3100BC
Washington builds Granary, Warrior started. By building a Warrior before starting to churn out Settlers we will both have the Settler factory up and running smoothly (after the first Settler since that will require some MMing to avoid it to grow to size ) and lower the lux needed to support Washington.

19 – 3050BC
Nothing worth mentioning

20 – 3000BC
Washington builds Warrior, Settler started.

After action report:
We have met one tribe, China. They have probably met at least one other tribe by the look of their techs.

Washington will produce the first Settler in 2800BC. The first Settler will require MMing while at Size 6 so we avoid Washington growing to size 7. 3 production turns needed at size 6, just moving one of the FP citizens to work as a scientist for a turn when at size 6 will do the trick.

Watch out for Barbarians coming up from the SE. I have not had resources to send any warriors there to remove the threat. Do not know if it is a peninsula or a land bridge to another area but I guess we have to wait a while before finding out.

Have made suggestions as to potential city sites on the map. FP NW looks like a good site for the first settler. The SW coastal location could be interesting too since it will pop a GH when it culturally expands.

 

[AlanH]

Your 3000 BC save is fixed. Feel free to download it and continue.

 

[dmanakho]

Good job Wotan!

I have the save...
Anything else we want to discuss before i start?
I will probably play on sunday afternoon-night East Coast time.
Next 10 turns look pretty staightforward, but let me know if there is something not to miss.

 

[Wotan]

You are correct about your turns being straightforward. On turn 4 and 8 Settlers will be built. It is just a question of making sure Washington produce for three turns at size 6 for the first settler. After that it is a simple 4 turn factory and will probably run as one for some time. What we need to agree on is city placements and in what order they are to be founded.

Maybe another scout from the next city? And continue looking for other tribes and GHs. Having Washington ready as a settler factory at size 5-6 in 3000BC should put us in a strong position.

EDIT: Just a reminder, you need to MM Washington each turn it grows or builds a Settler, lux and/or fpt.

 

[grahamiam]

nice turns wotan looks like a great start. too bad we lack rivers, will make research a little slow.

just curious, which worker was joined to the city? if it was one of the GH workers, what was his nationality?

@Alanh: thanks

 

[AlanH]

GH workers are native eqWorkers, just like your starting worker

 

[dmanakho]

pre-turn:
tried hard to find any housecleaning that's left to do after Wotan... Bammer, couldn't find anything.

T1. 2950BC Washington grows. MM it.
T2. 2900BC Workers finished roading BG and irrigating plains. Sending them to road towards future city locations.
T3. 2850BC. Chinese warrior shows up next to Washington.
T4. 2800BC. 1st settler is built. Lux slider down 20%. Can't move sci. slider above 50% - no money in treasury.
T5. 2750BC. WOrkers to road. Land north from us is awfull - jungles jungles jungles. We will need zillions of workers to clean that up. I bet this is where Alan has rubber and alluminum hidden.
T6. 2710BC. Settler arrived to the city destination. Washignton grew in size to pop 6 and citizen was placed on forest. Moving it to irrigated plains. Move lux slider up to 30% and sci slider down to 40%. Chinese warrior blocks BG i was going to road towards new city so moving worker to grassland instead.
T7. 2670BC. New York is founded and switch it to warrior. Moving worker to BG
T8. 2630BC. 2nd settler is built. Moving it to the next city location. Worker to mine BG. another worker to irrigate FP near NY.
T9. 2590BC. Scout sees green border. According to F11 screen it is Greece.
T10. 2550BC. 2nd. settler arrived to the final city destination.

Post-turn:
Washington will produce a settler in 2 turns and will pump settlers as scheduled each 4 turns thereafter. Not sure if irrigating FP was the right decision. I just didn't want to lose turns crossing that river near NY. Warrior will be built in NY in 2 turns and we can get a worker out of that city next.
We are lucking luxuries on this map. There are some dyes in jungle and i saw wines inside Greece territory.
Beginining of this game should be pretty much the same as any other game. We will have to expand and colonize our island. Workers must have to clean jungles and we will have plenty of space to build bunch of ISC cities with scientists to boost scientific output.

EDIT: Funny but we are already ahead of everyone in score... Looks like not every team figured 4 turn settler factory setup. Special thanks to G-Man!

Link to the save

...and the screenie for the lurkers...