SGOTM8 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Of course we can! We have two iron sources on our continent; if we disconnect one of them we'll fulfil our hypothetical deal with Japan and nothing left for us - exactly what we want.

You're right!! That's what I love about this, I just learned something I hadn't thought of.

And we can still connect and disconnect.

We would need to road over and use a worker for a colony!

 

[WillowBrook]

I'll have details and the save in a moment, but the bad news is that Nottingham flipped and caused a lot of trouble. The good news is that nothing else bad happened. Oh, and we have saltpeter. But so do the English.

 

[leif erikson]

Once we are ready to go for ROM/JPN we may want to target JPN first so that we can capture the Library and catchup in techs. But if we haven't seen cavalry or rifles it may not matter which we go for first.

Just lost a nicely thought out and relatively long post on this. But it was prolly better for all of you...

To summarize, I'm not sure we shall have the option of picking Japan. Rome is the only military larger than ours. In my 10 turns, I learned how long it takes to build up forces when we have to cash rush and upgrade them. I think we will need Japan's military to wear down some of Rome's army for us. To ally with Rome aginst Japan will only make Rome stronger imho, No?

The other thing I am coming to realize is that we don't have a lot of time left and we prolly need to try and get something going somewhere with Rome and/or Japan soon.

 

[WillowBrook]

First, the save

And the turn log:
Turn 0: 550 AD
Give St. Louis WLTKD
decide to not to change SF since that would slow its growth
rush barracks in Macao and harbor in Tientsin
buy invention from the Japanese for 564 g and WM

IBT
Our silks deal is up. I renew it for 407g (and dyes, wines, and WM of course)
Vikings drop off sword by Brighton
English longbow redlines our knight
Washington: Horse => courthouse
New York: Horse => courthouse
resistance in Nottingham ends
Boston: Harbor => courthouse
Tsingtao : settler => settler
Tientsin: harbor => barracks
Macao: barracks => Horse
Brighton: Horse => Horse
Neither Lizzie nor Ragnar are talking

Turn 1: 560 AD
move some horses around on home island
refound Buffalo
rush barracks in Nottingham and hire a tax collector
move two workers from ICS location
found Phoenix
rush horse in Kalmar
change New Orleans from aquaduct to settler since all the city squares are being used
change Memphis and San Diego to settler
kill Viking sword with knight, no damage
set a single scientist on gunpowder

IBT
English longbow attack knight near Nottingham, 2 hp damage
E-knight comes from London and attacks, no more damage and promotion!
Nottingham: barracks => spear (until connected)
Seattle: harbor => temple (for more tiles to work)
Kalmar: horse => knight (temporarily)
New Orleans: settler => settler

Turn 2: 570 AD
no talking
MM Miami for happiness
upgrade horse in Brighton, 2 in Kalmar
rush horses in Macao and Brighton
rush barracks in Tientsin
disconnect iron, restart connection
change Oxford to horse and rush

IBT
English drop off warrior near Oxford
Tientsin: barracks => horse
Oxford: horse => horse
Macao: horse => horse
Area 51: knight to settler (will join workers)
Brighton: horse => horse
Japanese start Copernicus

Turn 3: 580 AD
no one talking
knight takes out E-warrior, redlines
knight attack E-axe, retreats
Vastras has shrunk – probably 2 spears now
rush temple in Nottingham so we can get incense
rush horse in Kalmar

IBT
Athens: knight => harbor
Nottingham: temple => spear
Nanking: courthouse => market (and better to have no tax collector)
Philly: harbor => courthouse
Frisco: harbor => courthouse
Kalmar: horse => knight (temporarily)

Turn 4: 590 AD
MM Beijing for happiness
found Albuquerque
a Roman axe and conscript horse are near Tientsin, so I upgrade the spear
upgrade horses in Macao and Kamar
rush horses in Macao, Tientsin, Oxford, and Brighton
pillage and restart iron road

battle for Canterbury:
4/4 knight v. 4/4 spear => 3/4 knight
4/4 knight v. 3/3 spear => 3/4 knight
Canterbury destroyed, 3 slaves
Ragnar will talk, but won’t give anything
Lizzie also will talk, but won’t give anything

IBT
Nottingham defects! (taking one healing knight with it)
Tientsin: horse => settler
Oxford: horse => horse
Macao: horse => horse
Denver: market => aqueduct
Brighton: horse => settler
Memphis and LA: settler => settler
Japanese start Magellen’s

Turn 5: 600 AD
Nottingham has a musket in it
I buy gunpowder from Japan for 624 g and WM
There is salt under Chicago
And just northeast of York

Battle for Vasteras
4/4 knight v. 3/3 spear => 3/4 knight
4/4 knight v. 3/3 spear => 2/4 knight
Town captured, one resistor, one slave
Ragnar will only give the tiny Norrkoping

rush settler in Kalmar

IBT
English knight and longbow take out two of our knights – on hills and we gave them no damage!!!
renew dye deal with Rome for 12 gpt
Corinth: market => courthouse
Area 51: settler => settler
Kalmar: settler => knight

Turn 6: 610 AD
rush units, upgrade several horses
disconnect, restart iron road

IBT
Japan wants 13 g for a WM trade. I’m curious, so I pay
Ragnar wants to talk, but won’t offer any better deal than before
I lose another knight to English elite knight
lots of civil disorder! (WW, apparently)
Atlanta: courthouse => barracks (to sell after built?)
Tientsin: settler => horse
Oxford, Macao, Brighton: horse => horse
New Orleans: settler => aqueduct

Turn 7: 620 AD
I guess I need to make peace with Ragnar, given the WW
so I take Norrkoping, and start a barracks (it has a harbor! )
still have to increase lux to 20%
Reorganizing assault on Nottingham – need to come in over the mountains
getting road and settler to former Canterbury incense

IBT
lots of order restored
Chicago: knight => courthouse
Kalmar: horse => knight (temporarily)
Baltimore: knight => courthouse
Romans start Magellan’s
Rome completes Sistine Chapel

Turn 8: 630 AD
take out two English longbows with no damage
found Portland, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, and Oakland
Rush settler in Brighton
Rush barracks in Norrkoping (it will flip soon, but have to try)

IBT
England’s elite horse is redlined taking a knight (I’ll get it now!), and a longbow retreats a horse
Washington: courthouse => library (can be sold)
Norrkoping: barracks => horse
Tientsin, Oxford, Macao: horse => horse
Brighton: settler => horse

Turn 9: 640 AD
take out offending English units
found Tampa Bay
looks like Vikings and English are at war – Canterbury was refounded south of Norwich, but has been destroyed

IBT
resistance in Vasteras over
St. Louis: temple => aqueduct
Area 51: settler => settler (adding workers to support this)
Kalmar: horse => knight (temp)
Oakland: barracks => knight (temp)
Japanese start Bach’s

Turn 10: 650 AD
rush and upgrade some units
fix some unhappiness

Notes:
-The island we share with Rome will soon have 8 or 9 knights. We may want to declare/provoke soon.
-WW is not nice. If Lizzie will give us anything, we should make peace for a turn or two after taking Nottingham back, as that would significantly increase our income.
-We must retake Nottingham because of the cultural pressure on our other holdings.
-There is a settler ready to claim the incense, which will be connected in two or three turns to everything else
-We should destroy Nottingham when we take it back – it just has too much culture. a settler is waiting in Brighton to replace it (to occupy the space so no one else does)
-I did not rush the horses in Oxford and Brighton this turn because I don’t know how big an army we want on the English island
-The knight north of Brighton is on a foolhardy suicide mission to disconnect the English saltpeter
-I have one scientist on chemistry; no one else has it (though I expect Rome or Japan will get it at any time)
-Some home island cities are building improvements they don’t need which can be sold for cash (at a better rate, I believe, than putting the city on wealth)
-Area 51 is building settlers with population replaced by unneeded workers
-Other extra workers are headed to the core around Washington to maximize population

 

[leif erikson]

Looking Good Willow!!

City flips are a PITA!! We certainly have our share of flip pressure. Looking in CivAssist II, what is with Pharsalos. It is showing a flip % of 0.2 and requires 10 units to quelle it????

Also, Norrkoping is 4.8-9.6%.

Roster:
Capt - Asked for a switch to Monday or Tuesday
Nemesis - UP
Gator - On Deck
Bluebox
Leif
Willow - Just Played!

As we did last time, I think we should wait to hear from Nemesis until Thursday morning. (EDIT - My time GMT -5:00) If we don't hear, I plan to turn it over to Gator. It also gives us a little time to ponder.....

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Excellent play, Willow

If we can speed this up, I think we have a real chance of winning. Durkz seem to be our nearest rivals. But I took a quick look at all the graphs today and what strikes me is the huge difference in Durkz' and our culture. All that culture must mean they have more territory from cultural expansion than we do and therefore also higher score. I expect city count and game approach to be pretty similar, but hopefully we have a stronger military since they spent time on culcher
Also: we're gaining on them in terms of territory

 

[WillowBrook]

More things I didn't note above:
-England will attack knights on hills and jungle (and win too often ), but will ignore them on mountains
-England is getting iron from somewhere

 

[leif erikson]

More things I didn't note above:
-England will attack knights on hills and jungle (and win too often ), but will ignore them on mountains
-England is getting iron from somewhere

The English have Iron under Warwick, north of London!

I have never tried a "Scientist rush"? With our growing population and growing unrest, would it be worth an attempt to get to Military Tradition by using scientists?

The only problem that presents is that we can't run a resource disconnection strategy with a core city sitting on saltpeter. Unless Bluebox comes up with another brilliant strategy move!

BTW - I checked on Japan and they are getting Iron from somewhere as well and they have yet to connect their source.

I am beginning to think we must have Cavalry to defeat Rome.

 

[bluebox]

The only problem that presents is that we can't run a resource disconnection strategy with a core city sitting on saltpeter. Unless Bluebox comes up with another brilliant strategy move!

Well, if we could sell one resource ...

Good playing, Willow!

Do we really need to capture all those cities and watch them flip again? Considering the victory goal, we could also raze them. We have 400 and something gpt and won't get much more out of totally corrupt cities (~1g plus taxmen each). We don't even get free unit support from them! Maybe we should raze most of the English and Viking cities right away. That will also give much more pressure on them during "peace" negotiations.

With the Roman-Japanese continent, I still wonder if we could do a PJ once we have a foothold there.

 

[leif erikson]

Do we really need to capture all those cities and watch them flip again? Considering the victory goal, we could also raze them. We have 400 and something gpt and won't get much more out of totally corrupt cities (~1g plus taxmen each). We don't even get free unit support from them! Maybe we should raze most of the English and Viking cities right away. That will also give much more pressure on them during "peace" negotiations.

This is an interesting point. I think we would have to backfill it with settlers however. There is a Roman city nearby and I bet there are spare settlers waiting to colonize what we clear. More Roman cities would not be a good thing.

 

[WillowBrook]

Given the flip problems, I do think we should raze where we can and sometimes replace (such as I have set up to do with Nottingham). I don't know when we should or shouldn't, though.

Also, Rome seems to be on a culture-building spree , so we should probably get them involved in a war as soon as we think we have enough troops on our shared island (and get Japan in on it, of course). I'd say quite early in the next turnset. I haven't checked what Japan wants for an alliance. We're getting a lux from Rome, so we will want the incense securely hooked up first.

 

[leif erikson]

Given the flip problems, I do think we should raze where we can and sometimes replace (such as I have set up to do with Nottingham). I don't know when we should or shouldn't, though.

In this game, a look at our flips show that the RNG indeed controls our fate. How Buffalo flipped, our why Pharsalos has a flip risk must mean we are way behind culturally. In fact, a look at CRpMapStat shows that we have a total culture of 726 (+22), England 1663 (+35), Rome 2881 (+87), Vikings 3326 (+70), and Japan 4871 (+119). So each turn, Japan gains 5 times our cultural gain! Not that that is necessarily bad, except with flips.

We just need to practice good flip discipline, no large number of units in cities recently captured, always a unit nearby to retake the city, etc. Prolly need to leave a uniot centrally in a group of cities to retake flips. It is something we'll have to deal with. Given the culture numbers, we can't expect stability as long as a foriegn citizen is in a city, unless we wipe out that civ.

Also, Rome seems to be on a culture-building spree , so we should probably get them involved in a war as soon as we think we have enough troops on our shared island (and get Japan in on it, of course). I'd say quite early in the next turnset. I haven't checked what Japan wants for an alliance. We're getting a lux from Rome, so we will want the incense securely hooked up first.

Based upon the numbers above, we definately need to get Japan and Rome aligned against each other. Here is the most important question, Who is going to win in that melee? Our ability to get a city on that main island will be determined by aligning with the winner.

We can punish Rome much more than we can hurt Japan but Rome's Army must be bigger than Japan's. Does the Samuari unit give Japan enough of an advantage?

The other interesting challenge will be getting cities on the continent given that there are so many outlying cities on islands.

I am thinking w emay need to have to declare and make peace several times to collect all the stray cities on islands before we can get to the "Main Event". That is going to take time...

 

[WillowBrook]

Given that we have troops on the island we share with Rome now, I think we should go against them first. We may be able to kick them off the English Island before making peace, as well.

 

[leif erikson]

Almost forgot it was Thursday!

Just checked and Nemesis hasn't been active since 24 August! Don't know where you are, but I hope you are OK.

Roster change:
Capt - Asked for a switch until next Monday or Tuesday.
Gator - UP
Bluebox - On Deck
Leif
Willow
Nemesis - Skipped.

@Bluebox - If Gator finishes Sunday or Monday, I intend to slip The Capt. in next. Otherwise, you'll be up next. I hope that is OK with you.

 

[DJMGator13]

I got it. I won't have a chance to play until Saturday.

Flip discussion is good. Here is a little trick I 've found to be very successful. As soon as resistance is ended I'll pull all troop out of a city. I've found that an empty city doesn't flip as easy, why? No idea. But I have tested it in some of my solo games (especially when I was learning the game and would reload).

Cavs could be very useful. I'll try to look at our science capability before I play Saturday. I think we need to still concentrate on ENG & VIK and keep as many cities as possible. Once we start on ROM & JPN we should definitely start razing cities. If we can free up space on their island they should stop sending settlers out in ships.

 

[leif erikson]

Flip discussion is good. Here is a little trick I 've found to be very successful. As soon as resistance is ended I'll pull all troop out of a city. I've found that an empty city doesn't flip as easy, why? No idea. But I have tested it in some of my solo games (especially when I was learning the game and would reload).

I think I have noticed this as well and it never made any sense to me!

Cavs could be very useful. I'll try to look at our science capability before I play Saturday. I think we need to still concentrate on ENG & VIK and keep as many cities as possible. Once we start on ROM & JPN we should definitely start razing cities. If we can free up space on their island they should stop sending settlers out in ships.

I agree that the focus should be on England and the Vikes. However, it would speed our progress if we could expedite some bloodletting amongst the Japanese and Roman armies. As you well know, to do that requires that we pick a side. Whom do you recommend we throw our hat in with?

1000 AD is coming fast, so I think we need to think about taking some calculated risks to see if we can't get there faster?

 

[bluebox]

@Bluebox - If Gator finishes Sunday or Monday, I intend to slip The Capt. in next. Otherwise, you'll be up next. I hope that is OK with you.

Absolutely.

 

[leif erikson]

Absolutely.

Thank you!

 

[leif erikson]

Nice job on GOTM 46 Capt!

8th place with a Jason of 10,512!

When are you going to teach me that?

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Thanks, we're teaching each other here, aren't we? I know I've learnt a lot from the sgotms You guys rock

It's just a minor downer that I could have done so much better!
1) Had I just been more lucky/smart with my ship explorations. I went around the starting island once (and sent off quite a few suicide galleys) before I finally found the southern island and from there the easy route to the other civ's continent.
2) I had a clever idea that I should start with the Zulu core and then work my way out the peninsula towards the island south of Teno.
Probably lost a couple of hundred years through each mistake. If only...

Edit: for those that follow my warlord, no military, domination: I've added a chapter to the story