SGOTM8 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Keep up the pressure Willow. Lie cheat steal bribe threaten or what ever it takes to get us a city on the JPN/ROM mainland.

Do you think, this late in the game, that gifting back 3 or 4 cities on the island between us and Rome, then taking those cities plus the one near Dover, may provide enough pain for Ceasar to give up Kagoshima?

Kagoshima is size 2 right now and Rome recently captured another Japanese city. I think the recently captured cities are our best bet.

I am hoping that those Viking Swords deal the death blow to Norwich. If so, we must be ready to take England OUT immediately.

I agree with Gator's statement above, I was throwing GPT around like mad trying to keep The Vkings at war with England. However, The Vikings used those peace deals, I think, to catch up in tech.

So, now, it is time for them to pay the price!!

 

[WillowBrook]

Okay - so here are my initial thoughts:

- I won't declare on the Vikings this turn for fear of them making peace with Lizzie again. If they don't capture Norwich AND Lizzie still won't give it for peace, any thoughts on how I should extract it from her?

Actually, I'll go ahead and play the first turn and see what happens....

Turn 0: 1050 AD
Rush another cav in Norkko
Rush cav in Brighton (we have a distressing lack of military on the south end of the English Island)
cycle through cities, changing a few builds, moving some citizens around to maximize growth in the main island (e.g., Chicago can grow now that NY has a harbor)
move the 12 cavs outside Norrko to the olive hill just outside of Viking territory (three Viking cities attackable from there)

IBT:
Two of three swords win against Norwich, no capture
Rome and Japan sign peace!
London deposes to .... Rome! (taking Hanging Gardens)
Civil disorder breaks out all over... I break in at Norrko's cav build and fix the rest of the unhappy towns
Resistance in Hastings and York ends
Japanese start Shakespeare's

Thoughts:
-I need one more turn to be in position to get Artaxata. So next turn (1070), I'll gift a few former Japanese towns on Selucia Island, declare war, and take back London, those town, and Artaxata.

-Lizzie won't give Norwich, and the Japanese aren't talking.

-I think we need to attack the Vikings this turn, in spite of Norwich still being in English hands - please let me know if you think I should do otherwise (and why, of course).

I won't play anymore for at least a few hours; probably not until tomorrow afternoon, so post away on anything I should be thinking about...

 

[DJMGator13]

If the VIK swords by Norwich are healthy I'd maybe wait 1 more turn before declaring on VIK.

Gifting the cities to Rome and recapturing them and London sounds like a good plan. Also don't buy too many new troops in former ENG. Can we get ROM into a MA with JPN for gpt and then declare on Rome? It would be nice if they stay at war with each other for the rest of the game.

 

[WillowBrook]

If the VIK swords by Norwich are healthy I'd maybe wait 1 more turn before declaring on VIK.

They are 2/4 and 3/5. I don't know if they'll attack again. Rome is also at war with England, but the chances of them showing up and offing her are, I fear, slim. I hestitate to wait longer to attack the Vikings, as the Vikings are likely building bezerkers now, and the more quickly cities are out of production, the better.

Gifting the cities to Rome and recapturing them and London sounds like a good plan. Also don't buy too many new troops in former ENG. Can we get ROM into a MA with JPN for gpt and then declare on Rome? It would be nice if they stay at war with each other for the rest of the game.

I checked, and we can get an alliane with Rome v. Japan for just two luxes. I'll do that (barring overwhelming objections).

Also, Japan will talk, but Tarentum (sharing island with Jerusalem) is doubtful, and everything else is insulting.

 

[leif erikson]

I agree that the Vikings need to be smacked, and soon. Berserks visiting our undefended cities would be a nightmare. I thought there were 3 Viking Swords at Norwich, one die?

I am wondering if we should think about making peace with England, if the Vik Swords fail to take Norwich, and then declare and cause her some more pain. Perhaps she'll give up? The best thing that could happen is those Viking Swords are successful, duh!!

If we declare on the Vikings and they make peace with Lizzie, couldn't we also make peace with Lizzie, get an alliance with her and declare again?

Rome and Japan need to stay at war as long as possible. I believe that our chance to get a city or two there depends upon a peace deal with Rome and Rome will need to have takne a few more Japanese cities. So we need to go after Rome really soon as peace comes sooner. I'd get them fighting, gift them cities, declare and take whatever we can.

Good Luck, hope that helps?

 

[WillowBrook]

I thought there were 3 Viking Swords at Norwich, one die?

Yes, one died, and the other two lost 2 hp each. Good point about keeping Lizzie and the Vikings at war - we can keep them at it by various means.

 

[leif erikson]

Have you managed to play any more turns?

Sorry, but I'm dying to find out what will happen with Norwich!! I'm on the edge of my seat....

I'll try harder to be patient... :shakehead

 

[WillowBrook]

Turn 1: 1060 AD
fix unhappiness, put cavs in place for gifting/taking from Rome next turn
give wine and dyes to Rome for alliance v. Japan; they declare war
time to take on the Vikings! I tell them to remove their forces or declare war; they declare ("these forces" I assume are the galleys in Norwich straight.)

Battle for Lingoping (size 2, walled)
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 4/4 cav
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 2/2 cav
city captured, 1 resistor, barracks

Battle for Jonkoping (size 7)
4/4 cav v. 4/4 spear => 3/5 cav
4/4 cav v. 4/4 spear => 1/4 spear
4/4 cav v. 1/4 spear => 4/4 cav
city captured, 6 resistors, barracks and harbor

Battle for Goteborg (size 6, walled)
4/4 cav v. 4/4 pike => 3/4 cav
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 3/4 cav
4/4 cav v. 3/3 sear => 2/3 spear, resteated cav
4/4 cav v. 3/3 sword => 4/4 cav
4/4 cav v. 2/3 spear => 4/4 cav
city captured, 5 resistors, barracks and walls, 2 slaves

4/4 cav v. 4/4 sword outside Jonkoping => 1/4 cav
4/4 cav v. 4/4 archer outside Jonkoping => 4/4 cav

put cav on iron mountain to disconnect next turn (if it survives the nearby sword...)
capture two workers

anything else to do? no rushing cavs this time - we'll see what the counter-attack looks like.

IBT
lose 4/4 cav to Viking sword (not the one on the iron)
3/5 Viking sword captures Norwich!!!!!
order restored all over the place
(oops - forgot Sapporo)
New Philadelphia deposes to Rome. Bah - but quickly remedied.

Turn 2: 1070 AD
Japan still won't give us anything, but Tarentum is now close and Hakodate doubtful.
Vikings of course will not talk
I upgrade several units to cavs in Area 51 and Washington, since I expect Viking landings now.
Time to see if 4 cavs is enough for Liverpool...

Battle for Liverpool
4/4 cav v. 3/3 pike => 2/4 pike
4/4 cav v. 3/3 pike => 4/4 cav
Liverpool captured!
The fragile English are destroyed!
(darn! missed chance to use those elite cavs...)
(and I should have seen if I could make peace for techs first. sorry! )

On Viking Island
pillage iron (should get spears now when towns flip - which they will)
strand cav moving it to saltpeter (miscounted moves)
take out 3 swords and an axe

Now for the Romans....
I gift Matsumaya, Shimonoseki, and Sapporo to Rome
And declare war

Battle for Shimonoseki
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 2/4 cav
town captured, 4 resistors

Battle for Matsumaya
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 4/4 cav
town captured, no resistors

Battle for Sapporo
5/5 cav v. 3/3 spear => 4/5 cav
town captured, 1 resistor

Battle for Artaxata
4/4 cav v. 3/3 musket => 1/4 cav
4/4 cav v. 3/3 musket => 3/4 musket
4/4 cav v. 3/4 musket => 1/4 cav
some wood and fabric thing crumbles on capture
2 resistors

Battle for London (which has just shrunk to 2?)
4/4 cav v. 3/3 musket => 3/4 cav
London captured, Hanging Gardens recovered!

Battle for New Philadelphia
4/4 cav v. 3/3 musket => 4/5 cav
New Philly recovered, 1 resistor

Rome of course won't talk.

Some combination of England being destroyed, recaputuring HG, and (perhaps) Vikings declaring on us has made our citizens quite happy. Lux to zero, income of 1069 gpt. A check of an unhappy person shows no WW.

Okay - I don't get this. Tarentum is back to being doubtful and Hakodate is insulting.

IBT
Japan wants to talk, but won't give any towns. Bye!
much WLTPD
resistance ends in Sapporo and New Philly
no Vikings movements other than galleys
no flips!

Turn 3: 1080 AD
no peace opportunities

Battle for Stockholm (size 6)
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 3/3 spear, cav retreats
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 3/4 cav
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 5/5 cav
capture, 2 slaves, 5 resistors, barracks and harbor

Battle for Nidaros (capital, size 7)
4/4 cav v. 4/4 pike => 1/4 cav
5/5 cav v. 3/3 spear => 4/5 cav
4/4 cav v. 3/3 spear => 3/4 cav
city captured, 6 resistors, harbor
Uppsala is the new capital.

time for a break.

Notes:
I'm quite concerned that Malmo is up to pop 5. As soon as we make peace with Japan or Rome, we should ally them against the Vikings - perhaps the harbor will get destroyed.

I'll play some more this afternoon.

 

[DJMGator13]

Sounds good so far.

Don't worry too much about passing up the chance for techs, if we have to turn research back on in this game we are in trouble.

 

[leif erikson]

Yes, it sounds really good!!

Now, if we can clean up the islands and get onto the Rome/Japan continent, we'll be singing. I know I don't ask too much Willow?

Good luck and keep up the excellent work!!

EDIT - I was thinking that, as much as I'd like to get the islands cleaned up, it is much more important to get onto the Roman/Japanese continent, should you get the opportunity. And I think you will when it comes time to make peace with Rome. Good luck!!

 

[WillowBrook]

So here's the rest. Unfortunately, little of note has happened. The Romans and Vikings still won't talk, and Japan will give up no towns. We have a nice healthy treasury, though, bringing in nearly 1200 gpt, and we have 6 luxes hooked up. Rome just entered the Industrial Ages.

Turn 3: 1080 (cont.)
nothing interesting to finish out the turn

IBT
I spy my first B-Z! Within easy range of a cav
Memphis: courthouse => market
Hippo Regius: worker => wealth
No flips!

Turn 4: 1090 AD
Japan is no more generous, Rome and Vikings won't talk.
Can't quite get troops in position for Uppsala; will do that next turn
BZ on hill and I'd strand a cav to take it, so I'll wait til it gets closer.
Hmm - very uneventful turn. We're up to 1100 gpt.

IBT
BZ retreats a cav on a mountain (didn't expect that)
nothing else

Turn 5 (1100 AD)
take out offending BZ
no change in other civ's positions
put cavs in place to take Uppsala next turn
found New Buffalo, start temple (want the 2-tile island near London)
rush temple in Palmayra (same goal)
Bjoergvin has shrunk to 1 - must have built a settler - good, should be easier to get

IBT
Palmyra: temple => wealth
two Viking galleys moving back toward main Viking Island
no resistance quelled, no flips

Turn 6: 1110 AD
no change in opponents
rush temple in New Buffalo

Battle for Uppsala (size 8, capital)
4/4 cav v. 4/4 pike => 2/4 cav
5/5 cav v. 3/3 spear => 3/5 cav
city captured, 7 resistors, market and harbor
they still won't talk

IBT
Viking galley by Hippo Regius
St. Louis: bank => wealth
New Buffalo: temple => wealth
no resistance quelled, no flips

Turn 7: 1120 AD
no change in opponents
looks like the Japanese have retaken Satsuma
rush temple in Olympia
MM for gold - we're up to 1147 gpt
nothing else of note done

IBT
Japanese unload Longbow on Viking Island, the Vikings a spear next to Hippo Regius
Olympia: temple => wealth
New Atlanta: settler => wealth
no resistance quelled or flips

Turn 8: 1130 AD
take out Japanese longbow and Viking spear
no change in attitude (i.e., Japan won't give anything and no one else will talk)
nothing of note

IBT
Japanese cav by Matsumaya
York: settler => wealth
Sparta: aquaduct => temple
San Francisco: settler => wealth
2 resistors in Stockholm quelled

Turn 9: 1140 AD
what's with this? Japan is now insulted for Tarentum, too! Perhaps we need to make peace, then gift and take?
Rome and Vikings still won't talk.
Found New St. Louis, set to wealth
take out elite J cav
Found New Detroit
Interesting - Tarentum is back to doubtful. Taking out the cav made a difference.
rush settler in Nicomedia

IBT
Thermopylae: temple => wealth
Tampa Bay: marketplace => wealth
Brundisium: settler => wealth
Nicmedia: settler => wealth
a couple of resistors quelled
Kyoto completes Bach's

Turn 10: 1150 AD
Rome has just entered the IA! (Caesar looks different)
Japan won't give anything, and no one else will talk.
Found New Baltimore on spices.
Found New Denver.
Malmo has shrunk to 4 - worker perhaps?

here's the save

 

[DJMGator13]

Way to go Willow.

When the VIK will talk we need to see how many of the 4 off-island cities they will give up.

Japan still has cities on 2 other islands so we could accept any of those 3 cities for peace. ROM is down to 1 off-island city.

We need to hope JPN gets aggressive and captures Jerusalem from ROM. This would allow us to possibly sue for a mainland city. We may have to make peace with both ROM & JPN as soon as we get a mainland city so that we can defend the city, while building an army there.

All these little islands are a royal pain.

 

[bluebox]

So here's the rest. Unfortunately, little of note has happened.

Well, the map carries too much Cyan to settle on that!

Seems like we'll have to wait and waiting means we're playing the black pieces. We'll better find out what to do instead of killing time.

We could attack Oslo without capturing it to keep the pressure. But who wants to do that gamble?

When the VIK will talk we need to see how many of the 4 off-island cities they will give up.

Unlikely that we'll get all 4 of them. The bottom line is - in case of a peace deal - we might have to build temples in some former VIK towns and gift them back to re-capture them to get those off-island cities one by one.

We could also try for some cultural pressure on Norwich from Olympia, Pittsburgh, Athens, and Hunt Valley.

We may have to make peace with both ROM & JPN as soon as we get a mainland city so that we can defend the city, while building an army there.

Or first squeeze a settler out of it or 2 to be able to rush 2 or 3 Cavs per turn.

 

[leif erikson]

Sounds like you did great!!

I'm playing GOTM 48, so my civ computer is tied up. I'll have a look a little later.

Roster:
Capt. - UP
Nemesis - On Deck
Gator - Be prepared to jump in.
Bluebox
Leif
Willow - Just played

Looks like we have do whatever it takes to (besides cheat, of course ) to get a city on the Rome/Japan continent and clean up these few cities off on islands. I'd say that any and all ideas are welcome.

Good luck Capt.

 

[WillowBrook]

Just a couple of thoughts -
-I don't know how long it will take to get Japan to give us something; perhaps we need to made peace, give a bunch of cities (perhaps on English Island), and take them back. Ise Island must have oil on it.
-Just for future reference, all the Viking towns I captured had culture, so they shouldn't autoraze if we give/take them.
-Given that we have well over 10k g in the bank and a healthy income, we can afford to try things that cast gold. We just have to come up with what those things are.

 

[leif erikson]

Had a look at the save. It seems to me that the cities are growing so it will be more difficult to get them in peace deals.

It seems, by looking at the map of Japan and Rome, that it hasn't changed much. In fact, Japan reclaimed one of their cities. I wonder if Rome and Japan have exhausted their offensive units and that is why the border hasn't moved much?

Unless we get a city from Rome on the continent, perhaps we need to let them have some peace to rebuild their offensive capabilities. If this is the case, we would want to allow Rome the advantage and deny saltpeter to Japan, I think?

We'll have to play on and see how much longer before Rome or The Vikings will talk. Then see what they will give. Perish the thought, but we may have to gift back a large area and take it back to make a point? Never thought I would have to give back a bumch of what I conquered.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Another really good turnset

Gifting/retaking English cities seems like a good way to go, at least with Japan, but maybe also Rome?
I'll have a look at the save this evening and post back if I have any questions. I may have time to play tomorrow. If not, Thursday looks good in my schedule. We've played very fast this last week. I don't think we'll have any probs finishing before November now if our plan comes around ok. If it doesn't work, it really doesn't matter if we rush the last 40-50 turns cause we won't have any chance at a laurel then...

 

[leif erikson]

If it doesn't work, it really doesn't matter if we rush the last 40-50 turns cause we won't have any chance at a laurel then...

Yes, the die is cast, as it were......

 

[bluebox]

-Just for future reference, all the Viking towns I captured had culture, so they shouldn't autoraze if we give/take them.

I thought about our own temples to keep American citizens American. Good turnset, Willow, once again!

I believe (though I don't know if it's the best thing to do) to start with the re-capture/re-recapture thing ASAP, e.g. with the Vikings. If they don't want to talk let's fight them. If they don't have anything left to fight for, let's give them something.

This is definitely a concept but hey ... considering territory it seems we're going to win the laurels - or get out of this with the most way-off strategy of this SGOTM.

All or nothing!

 

[leif erikson]

All or nothing!

I like that!! Our new motto....perhaps?