[NFP] Shadow game - help me beat Emperor

I would settle on honey and work first pop on 1f 3p tile, it is still equivalent to 2 2f 2p start.

Why do I do that: because I can sell the honey early without improving, and I preserve one chop from trees. build order probably scout - builder - settler - monument
 
OK played until the scout was built, a barb camp has appeared very near us so I didn't get as much scouting with the warrior as I would have hoped . Next build - slinger to help take out the barb camp? Do I keep the scout nearby for the moment or get him out exploring along the rivers?

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I would build a settler. The extra settler the AI gets on Emperor is significant - the thing which helped me most step up to Emperor was learning that I needed to expand early before the AI takes the land. :)

A single warrior can take out a barb camp early game if it heals between attacks. I'd move the warrior to the tundra tile opposite the barb camp to deflect the scout the camp spawns with a view to crossing the river and clearing it.

Would send the scout west to explore.
 
OK played until the scout was built, a barb camp has appeared very near us so I didn't get as much scouting with the warrior as I would have hoped . Next build - slinger to help take out the barb camp? Do I keep the scout nearby for the moment or get him out exploring along the rivers?

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Scouts are for scouting :) With no immediate danger (barb scout) visible, he'd better be sent exploring.

As for the build, there are some options. I would lean into a builder in this situation. You do have at least three improvable tiles nearby, so why not to pick up that couple of eurekas for craftsmanship and irrigation?

As for the slinger, hmph, again, no immediate need, so maybe it could wait. If more military is required, I may even prefer to have another warrior first, before building slingers.

As for the settler - careful. You only have one warrior which will be occupied with this barb camp for a while (warrior can deal with it alone, two hits, a bit of healing, third hit, pick promotion, finish off, if the camp still alive). There's a barb scout roaming somewhere about. Your scout would be better sent exploring and looking for goody huts, contacts and natural wonders. The terrain is very flat and super open. With a lot of fog, barb camps may spring up anytime and anywhere. To send an unprotected settler into the unknown is very risky. You may end up with a settler that has to sit in the city hiding. I think, settler can also wait a bit in this situation.

This start will not be very fast.
 
Would send the scout west to explore.
Interested in your perspective on this, my inclination would be to follow the river we are on and try and find a good spot for a second city.

Given that I went AH first I think a builder makes sense but getting a Settler soon after that is important I think.
 
Agree that it's a slow start which is why I'd be looking to get a second city out quickly. :)

Since the barb camp is close to the capital, I think there's time to clear it and have the warrior back in time for escorting the settler - it'll take 12 turns to build the settler I think.

As for scouting, I'd move the scout 3 tiles down the river (we can see the coastline and this avoids rough terrain), then head west. Maybe it's arbitrary which direction to go in, but the terrain seems to be a bit less flat to the west and it's moving away from the tundra. Also I think I see the edge of a desert in the fog of war in the NE. I'd want to look for some good city locations before someone else takes them - there's an ok spot down the river but it's close enough to the capital that we're not in a huge rush to settle it.

I do use the settler lens when scouting early game - it's useful for finding city states and other players. Don't know if your polite city states mod will affect that, but I'd give it a try.
 
I think I would go settler now. Keep your gold together so you can buy another military unit to protect your settler if needed. If you dont need more military you can buy a builder/monument with it.
I would settle along the river between bees and ember. Thats as close as you can get to your capital so you will have less risk to run into barbs so you can use your gold for something apart from military. Also you will have good tiles to start with. And finally you can make the pretty nice IZ I mentioned in an earlier post. Possibly even two if you really want to.
 
I would settle along the river between bees and ember.
I've been eying that spot for my first expo as well :)

And in my shadow play I seem to have a barb situation that might escalate a bit, whence my cautiousness. This capital is pressed against the coast with little natural defenses, and a lot of flat land. You can easily get mobbed.
 
Another night, another 10 turns (pics 2 spoilers deep).
t12-t21:

Spoiler :

t12 - AH completes. My next tech choice will shock you :D:
Spoiler :

Reasoning: the capital shows growth onto fish. I want two sea resources improved anyway, for the eureka. Thus my Craftsmanship boost plan is to improve 1 honey, 1 maize (buy the tile) and 1 fish in that order. I think it is the quickest way.
Amber is quite far in time and space atm, no other close hills, so no, Mining can wait. Religion is hardly gonna happen, Astrology is needed for the harbour though, I will not think about it now to much, and pray for a natural wonder. Wine is closer, so probably pottery next, opening both Irrigation and Writing. Gonna bump into the discoverer of Buenos Aires eventually.
Egypt is torn by multiple dilemmas. It seems here that the bottom of the tree will have to wait.




still t12 - barb matters:
Spoiler :

Warrior completes, I switch back to complete the scout.
The barb scout from the NW camp shows up, I move the fresh warrior to deter him. I don't do two triggered camps anymore :)
The triggered barb scout from the unknown SE camp ran away to rat out my position, so my builder has some down time and I take a peek with it and discover another goody hut quite close! My future scout has a task already.


t13 - still barbs and matters:
Spoiler :

What a tryhard! Barb scout scouts out my already scouted out capital again, for supplemental brownie points, no doubt.
I move my fresh warrior to block his return and hit the camp with the starting warrior after only 1 turn of healing. It earns the promotion for the next turn. I will not have barb success stories, no.


t15 - a long line of military successes
Spoiler :

Starting warrior, having picked up Battlecry promotion, clears the camp and delivers MT inspiration.
I managed to hit the barb scout once with my freshman warrior, but he ran away to the west. I will leave it to my returning veteran though, and retreat the freshman back to the capital. Menace in the SE must be awakening right now. I must prepare.

Scout finished and in position for the goody hut, and now I will need a slinger.



t16 - crossroads:
Spoiler :

CoL completes. Capital still plans to grow on the fish. Fine, with honey improved and generating 2g now, I move my builder onto maize and buy the tile for the second improvement. I will work it, as it will also speed up our growth from 17 to 11 turns.


Policies:
The scout has a guaranteed goody hut, so I risk ignoring discipline and choose Survey for double Scout xp bonus.
Urban Planning vs God King: sigh... this Egypt does not really have any other faith than more production and gold. Urban Planning it is. Maybe we'll hammer out a Sphynx with the second builder after Craftsmanship, Ra be praised... Amen.


t17 - barbs redux:
Spoiler :

First contact with Hattusa and free envoy there for 2 more science, and... three barb contacts.
West - barb scout comes back, so it must be a dead end peninsula there. Or maybe isthmus? I hit it with the veteran anyway.
North - goodness me, I wish you best of luck.
East - aha, the menace materializes. I move 1 charge builder back to the capital to wait for the embarcation, and move my freshman warrior, interrupting his healing, to protect my improved assets. Over the river opposite the barb, he should be just fine.



t18 - once a tryhard, always a tryhard:
Spoiler :

New turn dawns and I'm very lucky.
West - the tryhard barb scout moved into my capital's direction, my veteran moves onto the forest to stay in touch.
North - Hattusa's warrior hit barb scout, and my scout, without engagement, moves west.
East - barb warrior hits over the river, my freshman holds fortified position.
Also, last turn, I switched my 3rd citizen from maize to work the forested hill to speed up the slinger, it will complete next turn.
All is well.


t19 - oh look, what an eureka:

Spoiler :

West - would you look at this: that barely alive tryhard barb scout just moved up to my capital on the very turn my first slinger completed. What an obliging guy.
By the way, I totally planned this from t0, cub's honour! :blush:


No, not really. :)
But this just reconfirms my belief that you don't have to fixate on the slinger-first-no-matter-what-starts in the obsession of the Archery eureka, usually there are more useful things for the first few builds than a slinger, which can wait and still bring home this coveted Holy Grail.
Also, I recon, I have enough of firepower for now, and start a settler. Still working forested hill and not maize. Better to have the settler earlier, and regrow later... probably.

t20 - another eureka:
Spoiler :

East - barb warrior gave up attacking over the river and crossed it. So I moved the slinger onto the forest hill for (figurative) morale support and ordered my freshman warrior to kill the fording barb warrior, which it did and delivered the BW eureka as well.

In the West I took the risk of delaying the return of my veteran warrior and scouted out the coast. A potential city site there, on the very tip, for laters.


t21 - diggin' in:
Spoiler :

The capital grows onto the fish, as promised, and I boost Craftsmanship.
East - my victorious freshman warrior is freshman no more. It spotted a barb slinger in tow of that new barb warrior, so I retreat to protect my assets and pick the Tortoise promotion, to counter the incoming ranged attacks. My slinger remains in a very comfortable position on the forest hill. I brace for impact :)


Also, t21, I finally take a look into the Great People situation.
Spoiler :
Hello!? Hi!? Anybody there? No...? Wow...


I don't know what to think.

Stop for now.

 

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Played a few turns until AH is in, need to decide next tech - someone suggested mining which is on the way to BW and the wheel (for my UU) so a good shout. Thought about sailing but those sea resources are going to be a job for the second builder so no rush. Pottery into Irrigation for the wines is another option but I've got two honey and a corn I can improve for the Craftmanship boost (also see next paragraph), although the second honey is third ring, so again don't think I need it straight away.

AH revealed horses along the coast, have marked two possible sites - one on the coast with horses and amber in first ring, the other on the river with honey and amber first ring and stone (harvest or quarry for the boost?) and Horses 3rd. I think they're both good spots but possibly the production from horses in the first ring might be the strongest play. A builder could improve honey and corn at the capital then the horses which would give 3 boosts (Craftmanship, Irrigation and Horseback Riding).

I went with the Settler, have the warrior guarding the camp until Code of Laws is in and I can slot Discipline - when I'm ready to attack do I cross the river first or take a couple of shots from where I am? Scout found a Barb Scout but not sure if it's this camp or another one, probably the latter.

EDIT: Nothing interesting on settler or appeal lens.

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Played a few turns until AH is in, need to decide next tech - someone suggested mining which is on the way to BW and the wheel (for my UU) so a good shout. Thought about sailing but those sea resources are going to be a job for the second builder so no rush. Pottery into Irrigation for the wines is another option but I've got two honey and a corn I can improve for the Craftmanship boost (also see next paragraph), although the second honey is third ring, so again don't think I need it straight away.

AH revealed horses along the coast, have marked two possible sites - one on the coast with horses and amber in first ring, the other on the river with honey and amber first ring and stone (harvest or quarry for the boost?) and Horses 3rd. I think they're both good spots but possibly the production from horses in the first ring might be the strongest play. A builder could improve honey and corn at the capital then the horses which would give 3 boosts (Craftmanship, Irrigation and Horseback Riding).

I think, at this point it would be good to start thinking of how to harness Egypt's abilities. Cheaper districts on the rivers would suggest settling them in the first place.

You would also want to maximize your trade routes and find as many international destinations as possible. So on one hand, you want to expand your scouting, on the other, to prioritize districts that give you trade routes.

If you were away from the coast, going for cheaper commercial hubs would be hard to question. Early Great Merchants alone would boost your trade route capacity significantly. But now you're on the coast with boosted sailing and two sea resources within range. That's makes sailing not so easily dismissible. Still, harbours are far, and it would be nice to find a natural wonder to speed up Astrology. We come back to the urge of improving the scouting :).

Pottery opens up Irrigation, which is relevant, Writing - you'll certainly need a campus or too, and CH down the line. I think it is a good choice atm. CH priority also makes me to think that sticking to the original plan to settle on the river between the amber and bees is better than deviation to the resourceless coast for horses. Not many opportunities for cheaper districts there.

Mining, though, I'm not so sure. If your plan with the settler, to settle next to the amber and mine it, goes undisturbed, then this gambit would pay off and you would have a clear path to the Wheel. But looking at your screenshot with a terrain that open and almost no military on it, I feel a little bit uneasy, almost naked. One unfortunate barb camp spawn may ruin your whole day. If suddenly you have to postpone settling and switch to producing military, Mining becomes useless for a while. So it is a risk.

I went with the Settler, have the warrior guarding the camp until Code of Laws is in and I can slot Discipline - when I'm ready to attack do I cross the river first or take a couple of shots from where I am? Scout found a Barb Scout but not sure if it's this camp or another one, probably the latter.
The warrior is not "guarding" the camp, he's losing daylight :) You don't have to wait for CoL to fight barbs, the guy should've crossed that river onto the hill and started delivering damage at once.

Now you're just waiting for another barb to spawn and turn numerical odds against you. 2 hits with the warrior to the spearman, a heal or two, 3rd hit, promotion, final hit to clear the camp - done. Eureka in the bag, gold windfall and one headache less.

Try not to have military units idling early game. They should either be scouting, albeit just a little, or fighting threats, when not healing their wounds.

Now your entire military of 1 warrior is just sitting there wasting time, and all your large flank is wide open, vulnerable and unprotected, and you don't even know what's there. And the capital is building a settler. For my taste, that is a bit too reckless :)
 
Now your entire military of 1 warrior is just sitting there wasting time, and all your large flank is wide open, vulnerable and unprotected, and you don't even know what's there. And the capital is building a settler. For my taste, that is a bit too reckless :)
When you put it like that ......
 
Few of my thoughts:
- I agree with MrRadar that the barb camp needs to go ASAP. I'd cross the river (no need to take a -5 penalty), attack twice and heal. Ideally we want the warrior ready to escort the settler when it finishes. :)
- I'd prefer settling on the river between honey and amber. There are no sea resources in the other location and that coastal city will get a growth penalty when it hits pop 2. Production is scarce and having to build a granary to work the 4 good tiles doesn't seem ideal. Plus Egypt gets benefits from rivers.
- Which economic card are we going to take from code of laws? I usually go god king for the pantheon, but maybe urban planning will be more useful given that we need to be producing things and it's not obvious (at least to me) which pantheon to pick.
 
When you put it like that ......
What I See Is What You Get :)

Encouraged by a few lucky starts, I used to be on the more reckless side as well. Then I got a little less luck and saw how easily a promising start can turn a lot less promising in a turn, and then into sheer nightmare in another turn. So I've toned down my gambling now.
And this start is not exactly too promising, and it has a higher level of risk on top of that. Nearby Horses, and fog around them. What could possibly go wrong?

However, you may try your luck. Maybe your scout will get something good out of that village? As of now, you have about 10 turns for your settler to reach the settling spot and settle next turn. It will complete a bit faster due to growth, then 2 turns on the way, settling next turn.
10 turns to survive with one warrior and 1 scout. It will probably be t23 when you settle, if all is well. 10 turns of hope no barb camp spawns too close, and plenty of fog around, with horse shapes in it.
 
I play a lot of Hall of Fame in Civ IV and my style is basically to gamble early, if it goes wrong then you just throw the game away!! Different once you have a decent amount of time invested, or like here where there is an audience :)
 
I play a lot of Hall of Fame in Civ IV and my style is basically to gamble early, if it goes wrong then you just throw the game away!!
This approach may result in you getting your share of luck and winning a corresponding percentage of Emperor or other difficulty games, but not because you got better. You just got lucky, and you probably kept all your bad habits. If you want to move up, try to play out and win every start, making of it the best you can. Play as if you've mortgaged your home and bet it all on your winning the game. Refrain from reloads. Then it will be easier to learn what's important and what's not. ;)
 
Interesting developments - met Spain (sent a delegation but didn't exchange information on our capitals) and Hattusa (not first, quest is recruit a great prophet sadly), the hut gave me the boost for Foreign trade. Barb camp is on the ropes, Code of Laws is in and should be able to finish it off with Discipline. Stopped to discuss God King or Urban Planning, normally I would just go straight for the pantheon but it might be a good idea to get production boosted. Going to sleep on it and see what you guys think.

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400 more years.
t22-t31 - first major contacts, the picture becomes more clear:

Spoiler :


In my last post I forgot to mention what I got from the second goody hut - it was inspiration for Mysticism.
And also, free envoy in Hattusa brings only 1 science for the capital. Sorry, force of habit. The game started to change too fast :)

t22 - a ripple instead of a wave and prospects of big money:
Spoiler :

Barbs move in and it turns out that it was all they managed to muster. I hit the warrior with my slinger and warrior. I move my heavily bleeding original warrior towards the capital to heal and for support, if necessary.
I also replanned my districts a bit and marked further possible city spots. It seems Egypt is in for a peaceful expansion.


Also, my scout makes first major contact and what contact it is!


This is great news! I send her a delegation and imagine a wealthy future for both of us, with lots of trade routes, economic alliances and such. She's so easily pleased, she's far enough, and an ideal trading partner for Egypt.
Cleopatra orders to design her some extra large vaults for large surplus cash storing purposes. Wilhelmina nods in approval.



t23–25 - BBQ continues:
Spoiler :

Injured barb warrior did nothing, but barb slinger moved to attack my slinger. I chose guaranteed elimination of the bar warrior. My warrior has Tortoise, my slinger is in good defensive terrain, both can survive a hit.


In between turns barb slinger hits, but my slinger promotes


Next turn barb slinger is lost for ideas, so I poke him a bit:


Meanwhile NW my scout carries on arduous scouting effort in difficult terrain and narrowly escapes yet another camp




t26 - barbs repelled:
Spoiler :

Barb slinger finaly opted for death. Without dealing any more damage he moved towards the warrior and my slinger finishes him off. I'll heal and move to look for that camp.


Pottery finished, I pick Writing via Mining. Settler approaches completion, might as well prepare to improve that amber. Then I will be placing a campus or two, Writing also opens Commercial Hubs. Egypt wants trade routes and Great Merchants.



t27 - pigeon from the North West:
Spoiler :

My scout broke through into less wooded terrain and prepares for a couple of more contacts. PP boost is on the way. And another major contact.


t28 - settler arrives to the spot!

Spoiler :

It's Fez.


I made a moderately risky move of sending my settler unescorted, while my troops were healing. There was no new barb activity in the NW, so cautious movement was ok, but you see how risky it may be. That's the barb scout from the Northern camp, apparently destroyed by Hattusa. Luckily for me, Hattusa's warriors are in pursuit of the barb scout and destroys it in between turns.
I leave Craftsmanship 1 t to completion and switch to FT for a bit. I'll time it with completion of a quick second scout, that I picked after the settler completed.



t29 - Memphis:

Spoiler :

Memphis founded in the planned spot, I opt for fast growth and select to build a monument. I need to speed up civics progression.



t30 - ¡Olé!

Spoiler :

What a tease this new acquaintance of mine. I sigh and move on further west.


But before, I do send him a delegation. He's so close to Wilhelmina, they'll be at each other's throats in no time. I still see my future peaceful.


A blizzard develops in the East and frustrates my search for that barb camp. Also, there is another goody hut! Forecasts tell, it will move onto my capital. Oh no, not the bees!


Craftsmanship completes and I debate the choice of policies. I finally decide to slot in Agoge, in case I urgently need more troops, and leave UP in. Both cities need that cog atm, I decide to hard build the monument in the capital and buy a builder for 215 g, when I have that amount. Monument is more expensive to buy, and it is hardly worth it to slot Ilkum for 1 builder.


Capital regrew immediately back to 3 after settler, and now I lock on maize, for yet faster growth and more cash.



t31 - bees are safe. Hurrah!

Spoiler :

My NW scout scores another tribal village for 20 faith and a promotion. There's lots or woods around, so I'll probably pick Ranger.


The blizzard unexpectedly veers off into completely opposite direction! I won't complain :)


A glance into GP screen.
Well, good, good :)



Man, illustrated write-ups are hard :)
As Egypt's situation becomes stronger and importance of turn-by turn decisions starts to diminish, expect a drop in the details of future reports.

I need a break. Stop for now.

 

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Interesting developments - met Spain (sent a delegation but didn't exchange information on our capitals) and Hattusa (not first, quest is recruit a great prophet sadly), the hut gave me the boost for Foreign trade. Barb camp is on the ropes, Code of Laws is in and should be able to finish it off with Discipline. Stopped to discuss God King or Urban Planning, normally I would just go straight for the pantheon but it might be a good idea to get production boosted. Going to sleep on it and see what you guys think.

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I'd probably pick Urban Planning for production and leave faith for better times, when a Sphynx or two are up. Or a faith filled goody hut.
 
I'd lean towards urban planning too. At this stage an extra 1 production in both cities is very useful (it'll shave turns off settlers and military production), whereas there's no rush to get a pantheon. We probably won't get religious settlements even if we did slot god king, and we have a mix of sea resources, mining resources, camps and plantations - so there's no standout choice to boost either early culture or early production.
 
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