Ship Units

Any idea how such upgrading would look like ?

I dont think that promotions can forbid others, so this idea is out.

Other is that you could upgrade galley to "extra board crew galley" for 20 gold. "extra board crew galley" would become a new unit with same mesh, same requirement of technology, but cannot be built, only upgraded to.

The problem is, what if the upgraded one would replace regular galley, making it impossible to build any of these two.
 
Vertico said:
• extra board crew: +1 strength, -1 speed
• extra oarsmen: -1 cargo space, +1 speed
• extra cargo: +1 cargo space, -1 speed
Click to expand...

You've got it almost right... it's Buccaneers for +1 :strength:, -1 :move:; Longshoremen for +1 :move:, -1 cargo; and Skeleton Crew for +1 cargo, -1 :strength: (Note: -1 :strength:, not -1 :move:)

It's implemented as part of the FfH spell system, and as such might require a lot of work to add (but could open up some neat options). Gameplay-wise, it works like this; when a ship is in port, it has extra action buttons available, for each different crew type (or 'Crew Normally' to resume normal operations). The ability removes any existing crew promotion, and adds the new promotion.

Do note that these promotions cost no XP to add... they're a free method of customizing your navy.
 
FfH2 uses differant source files. FhF2 game code differs from Total Realism's. This incopatibility might or even should create few bugs.

Anyway i dubt it will be impanted in beta4. But for X-mas is some time. Unless Houman and Mexico will have a hard time at work (or what ever they do) it can be tried.

But other thing is performance. I say that TR team should work on performance not features for now.
 
Actually it does have bugs in FFh. A rather huge game breaking one for anything other than pangea... The AI has no clue how to use the promotions and ends up only making ships with reduced/no cargo spaces, and as a result you rarely ever see the AI attack from sea.

If you were going to use that promotion system I would take out anything that reduces cargo capacity, or you may be left with a broken seagoing AI.
 
Actually, the AI only uses Buccaneers (more strength, less speed) in the early sea game. It's not a problem with a cargo-reducing promotion at all... the problem is that in FfH, the basic ships have no cargo capacity. As such, unless cargo is specifically put in, the ship won't have it. However, the AI doesn't know this, and as such doesn't assign a cargo role to a ship with no cargo... and as such, it makes all it's ships warships until the point where it gets the technology to make better ones.
 
Endovior said:
Actually, the AI only uses Buccaneers (more strength, less speed) in the early sea game. It's not a problem with a cargo-reducing promotion at all... the problem is that in FfH, the basic ships have no cargo capacity. As such, unless cargo is specifically put in, the ship won't have it. However, the AI doesn't know this, and as such doesn't assign a cargo role to a ship with no cargo... and as such, it makes all it's ships warships until the point where it gets the technology to make better ones.
Click to expand...

Indeed! I've noticed the same thing
 
@Fanatic Demon

Submarines should have bonus against all navy units exept submiarines. They have +100% attack vs Transport, +50% attack vs battleship, +50% attack vs carrier.

They are also invisable to most units, so cannot be attacked by units that dont see it. However submarines can attack it. Also when its deep underwater, it cannot be seen/attacked by units other than submarines, as for such attacks, attacking submarine is better than defanding submarine so +10% defance i vote no.

But on coastal titles in enemy borders submarines should not be inviasable (raders can detect it). Still its hard for battle ship to attack what is underwater.
 
Not with depth charges it isnt.

And subs typically didnt fare too well against sub hunting destroyers equipped with sonar.
 
Anaztazioch said:
They are also invisable to most units, so cannot be attacked by units that dont see it. However submarines can attack it. Also when its deep underwater, it cannot be seen/attacked by units other than submarines, as for such attacks, attacking submarine is better than defanding submarine so +10% defance i vote no.
Click to expand...

There are a limited number of units that can actually see a submarine to engage it, true... but there are means of attacking submarines, if you know that they're there (ie: if they're attacking you). Most commonly, Depth Charges. Such things are the main reasons why submarines usually don't attack warships unless they've got a really good reason to do so... typically a damaged foe, superior numbers on your side, or as a last resort when surrounded.

Anaztazioch said:
But on coastal titles in enemy borders submarines should not be inviasable (raders can detect it). Still its hard for battle ship to attack what is underwater.
Click to expand...

Umm... no, Radar cannot detect Submarines. You're thinking of Sonar, which is typically NOT implemented as a shore defense. The way to stop Submarines is with more Submarines, or with Sonar-equipped Destroyers. Without such defenses, there's not much you can do.
 
Guys,

In fact most of the Nuclear submarines are used to destroy trade fleet, supply fleet and of course other submarines. Most of the countries owning Nuclear Sub used also used them to protect some CVN Task Forces. (as France, USA and UK in the Indian Ocean and Persian Gulf).
Note that one of the main weakness of Nuclear Submarines are the low depth waters (as the Persian Gulf). Nuclear submarines are (it seems) easier to detect in low waters.

As a developper, my wish is to change something to Nuclear Submarines. Only a very few countries had the money, techs, scientists,...to build such a weapon. So i hope to find a good way to make these submarines more difficult to build (but not necessary more costly).

Hian the Frog.
 
Hian the Frog

I belive you can set cost to higher and some bonus to hurry production. (so the nuclear sub will be longer to build [more hammers required], but its hurry production will be same [eg. 50% cheaper hurrying]

I think i saw that somewhere in xml
 
There's a possibility this belongs in the promotions thread instead, but it's relevant to the discussion beforehand about Privateers/Pirates...

1) Would it be possible to deploy the promotion "Hidden Nationality" (FfH2 features this, although I note Anaztazioch said something about the code from FfH2 being thoroughly incompatible) and give that to the Privateer unit? This would allow a truer reflection of the Privateer historically (as they would often revert from 'unofficial' sanctioned action to true piracy during times of peace, thus would be a target for practically anyone).

2) Someone was talking about a modern privateer equivalent unit... Piracy is still a big concern for merchant sailors in modern times, especially in Asia. Add to that that many of the world's smaller countries have Navies which are mainly consisting of Patrol Boats or small but heavily armed gunboats. A Gunboat unit of some sort which you could upgrade the Privateer to could very well represent both roles in the mod. In modern times, perhaps AI spawning barb gunboats around Asia, Africa and the Med/Persian Gulf could represent this modern piracy (according to TheLopez, the current game doesn't spawn seaborne barb units too aggressively anyway, so it shouldn't unbalance anything).

On the other hand, player or AI civs could use the unit in the aforementioned "coast guard" or "patrol boat navy" role.

I'd agree with Anazazioch that it's a better idea to improve performance of the existing mod and fix existing bugs than add new content, but it's just an idea. ;)
 
I think that subs in the game are much too homogenized. Early subs only submerged when they had to avoid detection. Before the snorkel was developed late in WW2, they could only run on batteries, which didn't last long. Even early in WW2, torpedoes were so unreliable and difficult to target that most engagements were done while surfaced with the deck gun. More reliable torpedoes allowed them to engage warships. Sub-on-sub engagements weren't realistically feasible until after WW2. The subs just didn't have the equipment to track and target other subs while submerged. Ironically, the US navy lost several subs in WW2 after being hit by there own torpedoes!
 
Hian the Frog said:
Guys,
As a developper, my wish is to change something to Nuclear Submarines. Only a very few countries had the money, techs, scientists,...to build such a weapon. So i hope to find a good way to make these submarines more difficult to build (but not necessary more costly).

Hian the Frog.
Click to expand...

Carriers as well.
 
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