Shocking! FGM is widespread in U.K.

[Evie]

Two things worth noting about all those numbers.

1)There's no telling how many of those 66K were victims of FGM before deciding to move to the UK, at least if I read the article correctly) (and thus the "Stupid people refusing to adapt to us after they move" line may not apply to all of them).

2)66 000 victims out of 600 000 Africans means (roughly) one woman in four/five. I don't know that I would call that "prevalent in Britain", particularly not given caveat 1) - though of course different definitions of "prevalent" may apply.
--------------------------

All these caveats said - there IS a problem all the same, and one that need dealt with. No, physically harming your children because your culture says so is not legit in western countries.

I'm particularly concerned about the part where girls are sent abroad to have the operation performed on them, though. That would be hard to prevent...

 

[emzie]

I'm particularly concerned about the part where girls are sent abroad to have the operation performed on them, though. That would be hard to prevent...

Prevent? Yes. You could still have a law that gives your courts jurisdiction when the family returns.

 

[mdwh]

Sure it does, look them up. And no matter if you want to face it or not, the norm in the US is circumcised, it would be like someone with a circumcised penis going to europe or something, it's not normal there, and considered extremely unpleasing to the eye to be snipped there, as it is to be unsnipped here.

Also, I'm not trying to compare this to FGM or anything, I just saw people pegging on circumcised folk, it's mostly Americans who have probably been made fun of because of their lack of snippage.

The whole point of this - mainly for FGM, but it applies to male circumcision too - is that "it's their culture" isn't a good enough argument for such nonconsensual acts.

I don't see what's wrong with "a circumcised penis going to europe or something" - how do you mean? Given how many people travel between the US and Europe, it's not clear how this is a problem. The only place where you should get this "made fun of" attitude is in the school playground, and that's not an issue as kids usually aren't showing their willies to each other.

My American gf noted my lack of snippage, but I assure you it didn't cause a problem.

 

[Pannonius]

I also think that circumcising male babies should be prohibited. When you grow up, do what you want with your buddy, but no one has the right to make that decision for you.

 

[REDY]

Hm for jews is circumcising something as puncturing ears in our culture. Its not necessary forbid it or want make legal only for adults. Its needed make it more civilised.

Female circumcising is much worse than male one. One form of female circumcising should be possible somewhat.(I dont know how say in English what is cutted there), but the extreme form of it should be forbidden because seriously hurts woman through her life.

 

[Elta]

(I dont know how say in English what is cutted there),

The Labia?

 

[Winner]

I'll take it seriously when it's reported by a media source that is more reliable than the BNP propganda sheet known as The Daily Mail.

Head in the sand, it's so comfortable...

 

[Quildavyr]

Sanitary? Have you smelled an uncut mutilated penis? it's 2008, we have soap now. and it does kill nerve endings.

It should kill nerve endings,however it is not decreasing pleasure.I am sure about.I talked about the difference with many women and most of them told me,that they prefer a circumsized one.I dont know why.

About sanitary,I thought the foreskin was something like virginal membran,but the way jews doing make it useless.So my theory is ruined

And being not circumsized can be reason for a divorce.At least in Turkey.I know a few examples.

 

[Winner]

By conservative estimates, 66,000 women and girls living in Britain have been "circumcised" in most barbaric and brutal way. It is called "Female genital mutilation" (FGM).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=505796&in_page_id=1879
How could this sickening practice be stoped? Some poor girl is being cut as we speak!

If they want to bring their mediaeval traditions with them, let's punish them according our mediaeval traditions too:

crucify them, burn them alive etc. Still, it would be a mild punishment for their offence.

Seriously, anybody who commits this crime should be harshly punished together with those who knew about it but didn't inform the police.

 

[Mark Young]

By conservative estimates, 66,000 women and girls living in Britain have been "circumcised" in most barbaric and brutal way. It is called "Female genital mutilation" (FGM).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=505796&in_page_id=1879

How could this sickening practice be stoped? Some poor girl is being cut as we speak!

Education is generally the best way to stop an illegal practice.
However, there are many obstacles in the way when it comes to educating people from a foreign country about a practice that was legal where they came from, but is now an illegal act in their new country.

The most effective means of education comes when people of a certain nationality take up the responsibility of educating their country men themselves.

 

[Bill3000]

I also think that circumcising male babies should be prohibited. When you grow up, do what you want with your buddy, but no one has the right to make that decision for you.

Yeah, congrats on destroying Judaism.

No really. I just find it hilarious that anti-muslims could project the same hate that they put toward islam that they could toward Judaism if they wanted to, because of similar practices, especially since circumcision is such a critical component of Judaism. And last time I checked, Judaism isn't infamous for being barbaric outside of the blood libels, which are called libels for a reason.

I'm not suggesting that Islam as it currently is has a similar level of religious civilization as Judaism (it's not; death penalty towards apostasy is clear on this, as well as the post-medieval move towards sharia scholarship as opposed to theology), just that you're criticizing the wrong things, (e.g. male circumcision and halal) and that you'd be better off trying to make Islam more akin to modern-day judaism than trying to "kill it". Besides, you're not going to get far with objections due to antinominalism, because such a position usually is inconsistent, and isn't going to work with these two religions that find antinominalism to be an incredible sin.

 

[Evie]

Religions can survive that sort of changes (ie, by making it voluntary circumcision once the child is old enough to decide for himself), though.

Which isn't to say I necessarily support the idea of banning male circumcision (as opposed to female, which I'm all for repressing) - just that because one religion does it is absolutely no reason for the western world to allow it to be done to unwilling subjects.

 

[mdwh]

Hm for jews is circumcising something as puncturing ears in our culture. Its not necessary forbid it or want make legal only for adults. Its needed make it more civilised.

But is it legal to pierce a baby's ears?

Whilst there tends to be no age limit for piercings AFAIK, it still requires the child to give their consent, and I find it hard to believe it is legal to pierce a baby's ears (certainly I don't think it should be legal).

That's the point here - it's not that 12 year old boys are asking to be circumcised, and people are asking if there should be an age limit - it's that it's being done to babies and young children who do not ask for it at all.

Even if there are inconsistencies in the laws of western countries, that doesn't make it right (e.g., in the UK, I find it bizarre that even an adult cannot legally consent to a _temporary_ play piercing if done for the purpose of enjoying the experience - it would be considered assault - but a young child can consent to being permanently pierced, for purposes of fashion; and similarly you can do non-consensual permanent body modification to a baby).

(I agree the FGM is far far worse, though in both cases there is still the issue of doing permanent body modification to a non-consenting participant).

 

[GinandTonic]

Everyone is aware that FGM doesnt = islam. There are Christian's maintaining this practice and there were Ethiopian Jews also - no idea if this is still so. This is a geographical thing.

People are also, I hope, aware that there are campaigns against this practice in Europe and the USA. While we dont have figures for those countries the existance of anti-fgm campaigns suggests something to campaign against.

So the Londonistan pitch is incorrect in terms of London and -istan.

 

[Pannonius]

I'm sorry, but I just can't approve child mutilation. Consenting adults are another thing. When you're 18, enjoy your self. But it is my firm belief that no one has the right to make desicions concerning your body.

 

[Nylan]

I'm sorry, but I just can't approve child mutilation. Consenting adults are another thing. When you're 18, enjoy your self. But it is my firm belief that no one has the right to make desicions concerning your body.

So are you anti-abortion then?

 

[Bill3000]

I'm sorry, but I just can't approve child mutilation. Consenting adults are another thing. When you're 18, enjoy your self. But it is my firm belief that no one has the right to make desicions concerning your body.

That's fundamentally false. Parents are the ones who are responsible for the health of a child, and yes, that includes mutilation such as for example making a child deaf because their parents are deaf. And historically speaking, the freedom of religion is considered a higher priority to child abuse, probably because the forms of child abuse when it comes to religion is so subjective. You can argue about whether such a thing is right or not, but that's how it works in the West; the right of the parents to raise a child a certain religion overrides abuse.

I would love to prevent parents from teaching kids false things, for example, but considering the fact that in our nation, the US, the right of a parent to raise a kid of one's religion overrides that of the right to education; that has judicial precedence.

So are you anti-abortion then?

That entirely depends on the meaning of the word "your"

 

[Nylan]

That entirely depends on the meaning of the word "your"

'Tis very true

 

[Bill3000]

'Tis very true

Even if it was fully human, you probably could still justify it with the castle doctrine.

property rights are funny sometimes.

 

[Slaughter]

Someone should put a STOP to those mad religions. They are vile and barbaric.