Should Civfanatics just make one "Civ V Criticism Thread"?

[lschnarch]

By the way, for anybody who did have the patience to read up to here this may serve as a very interesting example of how totalitarism starts.
Control of speech, rigid actions to keep control, we find everything here we need for constituting a police state or even worse.

And we find the characters who are feeling well under such regimes.

 

[Palfouri]

By the way, for anybody who did have the patience to read up to here this may serve as a very interesting example of how totalitarism starts.
Control of speech, rigid actions to keep control, we find everything here we need for constituting a police state or even worse.

And we find the characters who are feeling well under such regimes.

Did you just finish reading 1984 for the first time or are you just using the old "person I don't like is the internet Hitler" discredit?

Is it totalitarian to collect trash in a bin instead of leaving it all over the street? And since I'm sure someone will say it, yes, I think these whining threads with no purpose but to complain are trash. I also think praise threads with no purpose are trash.

The problem is that it's obvious the majority of disgruntled Civ "fans" (if you can call people who'll insult a company after one mistake fans) would rather have the forum be a place where you whine about a game no one's forcing you to play and no one forced you to buy then to actually discuss the game.

 

[lschnarch]

Did you just finish reading 1984 for the first time or are you just using the old "person I don't like is the internet Hitler" discredit?

First of all, I am pretty sure to have read (and understood the intentions of) 1984 long before you've even been born.

Is it totalitarian to collect trash in a bin instead of leaving it all over the street? And since I'm sure someone will say it, yes, I think these whining threads with no purpose but to complain are trash. I also think praise threads with no purpose are trash.

Second, your way of thinking is totalitarian.
You entitle yourself to decide what's trash and what's not?

You may do so for your own person, ok. Apart from this I find your attitude being just ludicrous.

The problem is that it's obvious the majority of disgruntled Civ "fans" (if you can call people who'll insult a company after one mistake fans) would rather have the forum be a place where you whine about a game no one's forcing you to play and no one forced you to buy then to actually discuss the game.

I think, here we really come to the point.

You are indicating that people who are disappointed about the game and it's many flaws are not "worth" to be called *fans*.
Well, the term fan comes from "fanatic".

You, Sir, are clearly and obviously a fanatic, and honestly, you are a fanatic who should be stopped early enough.
You propose totalitarion rules being imposed on anybody who suffers the fate of not being of your opinion.

Literally, what you are asking for is to have some animals being more equal than others.

 

[zonk]

OK, look - I strongly dislike Civ V...

But totalitarianism? Come on...

Heck, if we can move totalitarianism to internet discussion boards and keep it out of real life -- sign me and the rest of the world up for that action!

 

[masterminded]

*When having a central "dislike" and "like" thread came up before, what I said was, they should merge all duplicate threads into them, but allow legitimate, new topics to remain.

You didn't say that. You stated that there should be two threads: "Really, there should be two, a pro-civ V and an anti-civ V. No one's opinion would be marginalized, all opinions would be there to read. Grouping duplicate threads is just good forum management." (Emphasis Mine)

**Yes, they should. If you create a duplicate thread, that doesn't offer an original topic, then they should censor you. That's just good forum maintenance.

I didn't say that duplicate threads should not be rolled into another thread. You redefined the issue as such. I claimed that just because mods can sensor posters, doesn't mean they should. This is in the context of relegating all critical posts into one thread. Stop mischaracterizing my claims. It's really dishonest.

You still haven't responded to the challenge in my last post and avoided many of the posts I have made, so I will quote myself and embolden them.

Charon, a lot of people, including myself and a mod will disagree with you. That needs to be addressed. It's been repeated multiple times, but I have yet to see you or anyone else address it except by gainsay.

It's very simple. The criticisms of this game are very broad and many are very comprehensive. If you force them into one thread, there is no way constructive dialogue can ensue because there are too many topics for one thread to contain. The result is that there are fewer posts because the thread is unmanageable. This is censorship not by killing speech, but by constricting to the point of being meaningless.

I know this is a privately owned forum. When you made that point, I addressed it but you never responded to it. In fact, you have a habit of ignoring my responses as if I never made them. So I'll spell it out again for the second time on this thread and the third time for you: I recognize that this is a private forum and the mods can censor me. That doesn't mean that they should censor me. That is what this discussion is about. Censorship is censorship no matter the venue. I never once claimed this had anything to do with government censorship or rights. It doesn't. I don't understand why you continue to mischaracterize my position as such despite my protestations.

This is still censorship. Legal? Yes. But should it occur? That is what we are discussing. In my view, unless there is a very compelling case to be made, censorship should be avoided. The eagerness with which others, including yourself, support it without any consideration for any possible ill effects, no matter how small, is really, really disturbing.

 

[joyous_gard]

I don't think so. We all have various problems with it.

Like this time around I didn't get a Steam achievement... Is that because I won the game with a mod active?

 

[masterminded]

Did you just finish reading 1984 for the first time or are you just using the old "person I don't like is the internet Hitler" discredit?

Is it totalitarian to collect trash in a bin instead of leaving it all over the street? And since I'm sure someone will say it, yes, I think these whining threads with no purpose but to complain are trash. I also think praise threads with no purpose are trash.

The problem is that it's obvious the majority of disgruntled Civ "fans" (if you can call people who'll insult a company after one mistake fans) would rather have the forum be a place where you whine about a game no one's forcing you to play and no one forced you to buy then to actually discuss the game.

I'll say that I think the totalitarian talk is exaggeration and not conducive to good dialogue, but neither is your post. If we are to base everything on your subjective value judgment that these posts should be censored because they are trash, then why can't we have a thread discussing censorship of your posts because another random poster finds your input to be trash? Who are you to decide this? You can't appreciate that other people hold views divergent from your own? That's incredibly solipsistic.

 

[Warspite2]

At this point this forum is a bad place to discuss the game because any actual discussion about the game are drowned out by 98249824 different threads whining about the same thing. While I suppose it will bother the people who feel their original and unique complaints need to be heard in a separate thread, I think one thread for all these angry comments, similar to TWC's "Empire: Total War Criticism thread" and harsh punishments for people who violate the rule (i.e try to be special snowflakes) would do a lot to help improve the Civ V forum.

Agreed.

 

[charon2112]

You didn't say that. You stated that there should be two threads: "Really, there should be two, a pro-civ V and an anti-civ V. No one's opinion would be marginalized, all opinions would be there to read. Grouping duplicate threads is just good forum management." (Emphasis Mine)

Yes I did. I said when this topic came up before, if you look at my post history, they're on page 2.

What you call censorship, I call keeping a clean forum.

And I responded directly to those passages you bolded, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

[Sonereal]

I voted yes originally but I'm going to have to change my mind.

The thing about it is that if someone posts a well-reasoned post about the flaws of the game, that's actually a good thing. Pointing out diplomacy is flawed is a good thing and the more people complain, the more it's noticed.

 

[charon2112]

The thing about it is that if someone posts a well-reasoned post about the flaws of the game, that's actually a good thing.

I agree...I wish there were more threads like that.

 

[Skwink]

I don't think so. We all have various problems with it.

Like this time around I didn't get a Steam achievement... Is that because I won the game with a mod active?

That little post would be great for a big "Criticism Thread"

 

[Sonereal]

I agree...I wish there were more threads like that.

The problem is that for every good thread where the user properly gives a rundown of his experience and the very real flaws of the game, there's five complaining about the lack of a civilization or the lack of features from past games and in one infamous case, the fact that the fog of war was hexagon shape.

Yes. A whole entire thread. Dedicated to that.

But that mods have been doing a great job lately of locking duplicate threads and redirecting discussion to threads where discussion is already underway (especially true of Steam threads)

 

[masterminded]

Yes I did. I said when this topic came up before, if you look at my post history, they're on page 2.

What you call censorship, I call keeping a clean forum.

And I responded directly to those passages you bolded, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Are you referencing this thread or an old one? Are you supporting one thread for all critics or grouping new threads of the exact same narrowly defined topic into existing threads (e.g. combat AI, happiness, etc.)?

You may want to call it cleaning the forum and it very well may have this effect, that doesn't change the fact that this would lead to censorship. Words have meaning. That is the effect of the policy you endorse. Your statement is an exercise in rhetoric and lacks any real content.

You did not respond to the objection beyond an assertion claiming there was no problem. You did not evaluate it in the least.

 

[Astat]

Let me just add that I have been a loyal Civ Fanboy since its first installation... I was a little kid back then, didn't really understand the game mechanics and english language (like, I played from start till end with despotism), but I was happily moving around my units, founding cities and building streets with those wagons until enemy tanks and battleships would show up and destroy my phalanx defensewalls... good times.

And I was thrilled about Civilization IV, they had addressed so many problems of the previous editions which I wasn't even aware of until witnessing how it could be solved in a far smoother way (city unrest, upkeep, resources etc.)... wow

And here I am, suddenly hearing from a friend that a new Civ was out, I missed it entirely until now! Read a few reviews, became somewhat suspicious as they were rather shallow.. went onto CivFanatics for some in-depth reviews.. and I won't buy this game. I am happy with Civ IV, guess the concept just can't improve any more after part IV. (Even though I thought the same after part III, before IV came out...)

 

[Vordeo]

Deal.

I'd take that deal.

Did you just finish reading 1984 for the first time or are you just using the old "person I don't like is the internet Hitler" discredit?

I lol'd.

And here I am, suddenly hearing from a friend that a new Civ was out, I missed it entirely until now! Read a few reviews, became somewhat suspicious as they were rather shallow.. went onto CivFanatics for some in-depth reviews.. and I won't buy this game. I am happy with Civ IV, guess the concept just can't improve any more after part IV. (Even though I thought the same after part III, before IV came out...)

I'd check out the demo and make up your own mind if I were you. think the demo's free on Steam anyway.

People on the internet have a tendency to overreact. Both for and against the game.

 

[Palfouri]

First of all, I am pretty sure to have read (and understood the intentions of) 1984 long before you've even been born.

The thing that always bothers me about the "I'm older than you look at how old I am" approach is that the person using it doesn't realize they are a 32 year old man arguing with a 12 year old (I presume you believe I am this old) about video games and fascism on the internet. Does it ever make you stop and wonder what exactly you're doing?

Second, your way of thinking is totalitarian.
You entitle yourself to decide what's trash and what's not?

Yes. Fortunately 9/10 places of discussion (that aren't majority angry whiners) agree; one doesn't need two threads on one subject, despite how important you feel it is that everyone see your opinion. No one is concerned about their post being ghettoed or corralled into one thread. They care that no one will read it because it's probably a poorly thought out rant about how I'll never support Firaxis again blah blah blah.

You may do so for your own person, ok. Apart from this I find your attitude being just ludicrous.

I find your suggesting I am some sort of Nazi ludicrous as well.

I think, here we really come to the point.

You are indicating that people who are disappointed about the game and it's many flaws are not "worth" to be called *fans*.
Well, the term fan comes from "fanatic".

Fanatics generally don't turn against the things they're fanatics of at the drop of a hat. Considering nearly everyone here has arbitrarily decided Civ is beyond saving and Firaxis are terrible people, you can't have been very devout fans.

You, Sir, are clearly and obviously a fanatic, and honestly, you are a fanatic who should be stopped early enough.
You propose totalitarion rules being imposed on anybody who suffers the fate of not being of your opinion.
Literally, what you are asking for is to have some animals being more equal than others.

Seriously, are you practicing for some sort of WWII roleplay?

And you just finished Animal Farm too I see.

 

[charon2112]

Allright, I'll state my opinion on the matter one more time.

I believe that on an internet forum, and in the interest of keeping it organized, multiple threads that repeat the same idea, should be grouped into one thread.

I do not condone government censorship of its citizens.

To equate the two, is ridiculous.

Are you referencing this thread or an old one? Are you supporting one thread for all critics or grouping new threads of the exact same narrowly defined topic into existing threads (e.g. combat AI, happiness, etc.)?

You may want to call it cleaning the forum and it very well may have this effect, that doesn't change the fact that this would lead to censorship. Words have meaning. That is the effect of the policy you endorse. Your statement is an exercise in rhetoric and lacks any real content.

You did not respond to the objection beyond an assertion claiming there was no problem. You did not evaluate it in the least.

 

[da6d]

Allright, I'll state my opinion on the matter one more time.

I believe that on an internet forum, and in the interest of keeping it organized, multiple threads that repeat the same idea, should be grouped into one thread.

I do not condone government censorship of its citizens.

To equate the two, is ridiculous.

+1

I voted "yes" with the caveat that there should be love/hate "dump threads" for unconstructive criticism, whether as new threads or OT comments in an otherwise productive thread.

To those who equate this with censorship - start your own forum. Part of a free society is the freedom of individuals/groups to choose how to handle their own business, and since we have mods already it seems fair for them to decide when a post is unhelpful and move it. If it got out of hand, CivFanatics would die as everyone stopped posting for fear of the mods.

It's not like this survey actually counts for anything anyway.

Get a grip, y'all.

 

[masterminded]

Allright, I'll state my opinion on the matter one more time.

I believe that on an internet forum, and in the interest of keeping it organized, multiple threads that repeat the same idea, should be grouped into one thread.

I do not condone government censorship of its citizens.

To equate the two, is ridiculous.

I am not equating this with government censorship. I have stated such at least three or four times. That you repeat my position as such either means you aren't comprehending my posts, you don't understand the concept of censorship, or you are deliberately misrepresenting me.