Should Coast Tiles Yield an Extra Production for Balance?

[Victoria]

Auckland being the exception to that is fine, but it shouldn't be the standard.

Being a Kiwi I have the right to say that Auckland is not a very productive place.

Cows are a bit more accessible from the get go than all that fish in the ocean

Cows from the ocean... cool.. will the bait stay on a hook?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

@Trav'ling Canuck You make some good points. But how tiles work, particularly how they are improved, are so backed into the game and it's balance I've no idea how this could sensibly be unpicked.

You could be right, but I won't consider the balance fully set until after the last expansion. I don't feel the developers have the overall balance so perfect right now that a re-think in some areas couldn't be in order.

Threads like these therefore provide helpful dialogue, I think, because there is a current difference between the coast and the land. And maybe that's fine. Or maybe coast should be more like land. Or maybe land should be more like coast.

Cows from the ocean... cool.. will the bait stay on a hook?

They're called manatees in these parts, and we should leave the poor creatures alone. They're having enough trouble as it is without having to deal with a Magnus-chop.

 

[criZp]

If anything they should yield extra food. Coast lacking production but having gold is fine, makes them different from land tiles, as they ought to be.

 

[MrRadar]

Cows from the ocean... cool.. will the bait stay on a hook?

I hear cows take bread, so it will do as bait. Just use dwarf bread. That one will definitely stay on the hook and will last you for ages

 

[UWHabs]

With the fishery, that makes sea tiles a little more useful. Production is still low - maybe they could make trade routes through/from/to a harbor be more about production than gold, but especially with the larger adjacency from being next to a city-centre, the more resources on sea tiles, and the ability to build a second sea district, that means that harbors can generally get a solid adjacency, which gives you some decent production with the shipyard. Maybe citizens should give production instead of science to help production more?

And with the ability to add fisheries, it means you can turn most coast tiles into a 4f/1g tile fairly early, which is a solid overall tile.

 

[Victoria]

With the fishery, that makes sea tiles a little more useful. Production is still low

2 adjacent resources for a harbour triangle and the harbour adjacency card and Reyna typically means building a shipyard will give +15 production by itself. 10 if you do not want to slot the card which is probably most sensible. At this stage the harbour triangle is producing 21 GPT.
You have so much food it does not matter what you work on land... this city could well get to 15 in time for the eureka's for 10 & 15 pop as well as the era points. As long as its only 1 city the happiness is not really an issue as long as you are not selling all your lux.
Naturally you would likely need an aqueduct at this stage as well as a granary but that gives half a point adjacency so all is not lost. The main problem with a 15 pop city is lack of chop to get there so getting that shipyard in place can be quite useful.
If you do not have much faith and get a classical golden then the science = harbour adjacency is a pretty strong alternative.

 

[Leyrann]

I think that's going in the wrong direction. I don't want to re-hash a recent conversation from another thread, but I think being able to spam mines on every hill is a mistake. Others disagree and think it's important to be able to improve every tile with early techs, and they would likely agree with your suggestion about fishing boats for the same reason. Me, I think even being able to put farms on every flatland is a mistake.

Nope, I certainly do not agree with the suggestion to add fishing boats to every tile. The thing with coast tiles is that they're fundamentally different from land tiles, in that, y'know, it's water. And that adds a fantastic opportunity for diversity: While land tiles get improved, sea tiles don't, but instead coastal cities get different advantages, like producing more gold (kinda underrepresented in Civ VI imo) and of course having harbors and therefore being able to build navies.

Regarding mines, nerfing them would be fine to me. Removing them is removing a core element of this game, namely that you can improve all (fertile) land tiles. Another option would be to add new improvements, like Civ IV did with windmills, watermills and workshops. I got quite a few ideas for that, actually, so if you got any modding experience let me know.

Being a Kiwi I have the right to say that Auckland is not a very productive place.

I couldn't say anything about that, it's literally the other end of the world. What I meant to say though, is that, in my opinion, having a city state that adds production to coastal tiles is good, but having it by default is bad.

 

[Victoria]

This thread has the closest vote between options I have ever seen, its exciting!

I forgot to mention Harbour + CH + Govt building = +4 production for incoming trade routes, thats mighty fine for new cities.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

The thing with coast tiles is that they're fundamentally different from land tiles, in that, y'know, it's water. And that adds a fantastic opportunity for diversity: While land tiles get improved, sea tiles don't, but instead coastal cities get different advantages ...

There's certainly an argument to be made that taking a different approach to sea tiles and land tiles improves the diversity of the game experience.

I got quite a few ideas for that, actually, so if you got any modding experience let me know.

​

Not direct experience no, but some transferrable experience yes. I'm inclined to avoid game balance mods, though, until Firaxis is finished with the game, as mods fracture the community and the game discussion. After the last expansion is released, that's a different story.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Poll is split evenly. The majority, however, doesn't like coast tiles.

Anywho, someone should mod it so you could build viable OCEAN CITIES like in Alpha Centauri.

Now that's an idea. A total conversion Mod for Civ 6 but for Alpha Centauri. Imagine what you can do with the current district system, but with sea cities and mindworms.

[I always play the Gaians since Lady Diedre is HOT]

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Gaia's_Stepdaughters_(SMAC)

Civ might actually be better if they drop the whole "realism" thing and add in the coolest features they can think of.

 

[Leyrann]

Poll is split evenly. The majority, however, doesn't like coast tiles.

Anywho, someone should mod it so you could build viable OCEAN CITIES like in Alpha Centauri.

Now that's an idea. A total conversion Mod for Civ 6 but for Alpha Centauri. Imagine what you can do with the current district system, but with sea cities and mindworms.

[I always play the Gaians since Lady Diedre is HOT]

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Gaia's_Stepdaughters_(SMAC)

The problem is that that's futuristic in nature, while Civ VI is about history up to the present.

Of course, once you start doing total overhaul mods it becomes a different thing. *cough*C2C*cough*

 

[Karpius]

Now that's an idea. A total conversion Mod for Civ 6 but for Alpha Centauri. Imagine what you can do with the current district system, but with sea cities and mindworms.

I have no problem offering different options to cater to different tastes...so long as the basic game is still there for old fuddy-duddies like me.

 

[Archon_Wing]

They should give more food.

 

[Amrunril]

Coast tiles have already been improved quite a bit yield-wise since the game's release, and I'd be very wary of improving their yields further. Coastal settlements should be attractive, but this attraction should come from the sea's potential for transport and trade, not from its ability to emulate land tiles.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I'd say give late harbor buildings more tile enhancements.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I'd say give late harbor buildings more tile enhancements.

On another thread, someone suggested the possibility of Trawlers operating from a late game Harbour, allowing the city to claim the yield from sea resources more than 3 tiles from the city centre.

 

[adajaga]

Coastal cities always can always chop +100% cheap boats for overflow (instead of 1 shot walls), isn't that enough production? Since Magnus I have a hard time not settling coastal cities, and having huge accidental navies.

 

[Kurtbob]

What about:

1. Bringing back sea trade routes vs. land trade routes a la CivV? Or is there already a mechanism that makes sea routes better (such as a distance bonus)?
2. Ships and embarked units starting with more movement points to emphasize the benefits of traveling by sea?

 

[Victoria]

What about:

1. Bringing back sea trade routes vs. land trade routes a la CivV? Or is there already a mechanism that makes sea routes better (such as a distance bonus)?
2. Ships and embarked units starting with more movement points to emphasize the benefits of traveling by sea?

Yep point 1 has been discussed positively before
Early sailing was rather a slow affair.

 

[criZp]

Coastal cities always can always chop +100% cheap boats for overflow (instead of 1 shot walls), isn't that enough production? Since Magnus I have a hard time not settling coastal cities, and having huge accidental navies.

not all of us like to use exploits