Should Coast Tiles Yield an Extra Production for Balance?

[Art Morte]

That takes an important card, pre-democracy eras. The opportunity cost is larger than the payoff.

Unless I'm playing for religious victory, I have Merchant Republic and I find that between the four possible slots for the +100% harbor card I have no difficulty running the cards that I want.

And I wouldn't use the card for one or two harbors (unless special circumstances), but three and upwards I find it a very good card indeed.

 

[Victoria]

And I wouldn't use the card for one or two harbors

I have 10 cities and feel I am doing pretty well... in fact I even have 10 trade routes so I am doing awesome. I have slotted the card that gives +2 gold per route so i am getting +20 gold... great.

Hang on.. I have 2 cities with harbours. The average is 4 adjacency on a harbour triangle so the card will give me with a shipyard +8 gold and +8 production. In a golden it could also give me +8 science.... at least you did not say never

 

[historix69]

Farms and Fisher Boats provide housing. Amenities from luxuries is more complicated since working a luxury whose type is already

But you don't get housing and amenities up by working tiles. Also, 3 citizens producing just 2 food each do indeed cost 3 housing and 1.5 amenities, but they also allow you to build an extra district.

If you settle one of the 1-tile-islands (Earth map) as a naval outpost, the harbor is the only district you can build for a long time, independent from population. In that case you don't mind if the city has only average food resources to slow down growth and keep the usage of luxuries small.
(Maybe later you can build a water entertainment center.)

 

[Art Morte]

I have 10 cities and feel I am doing pretty well... in fact I even have 10 trade routes so I am doing awesome. I have slotted the card that gives +2 gold per route so i am getting +20 gold... great.

Hang on.. I have 2 cities with harbours. The average is 4 adjacency on a harbour triangle so the card will give me with a shipyard +8 gold and +8 production. In a golden it could also give me +8 science.... at least you did not say never

Well, a card that I never use is that +2 gold per trader card x) You can get such nice amounts of gold from foreign routes that that card feels underwhelming.

Extra builder charges, +100% campus adjacencies, +50% settler (when needed), Republican Legacy, +100% harbor adjacencies; usually my four Merchant Republic slots feature a mix of these cards. A second military card in a wild card slot when needed.

 

[MarigoldRan]

It's split 50-50

 

[Leyrann]

If you settle one of the 1-tile-islands (Earth map)

Maybe you're not supposed to build cities on one tile islands if you're playing a game where the most important city development mechanic revolves around expanding your city to other tiles...

It's split 50-50

Whether or not coastal tiles are fine is split 50-50. 75% disagrees with adding production being a good solution.

 

[Victoria]

Life is a box of chocolates.
Make a lemon and marshmallow one and see how it goes. If nothing else you are a better chocolate maker.

 

[tedhebert]

I am presently playing my first Harald game, immortal, archipelago, huge...

Must say that it's, by far, the easiest post R&F game I've had so far... could be situational, but...

I'm not saying it's only that, not at all, but Stave church's + auckland makes coastal cities totally awesome... If the Stave church bonus was permanent for all (+1 prod in coastal tiles), I'm wondering if it wouldn't make it too strong...

just a thought !

 

[historix69]

Maybe you're not supposed to build cities on one tile islands if you're playing a game where the most important city development mechanic revolves around expanding your city to other tiles...

Maybe a bad habit from too much roleplaying ... Naval outposts were important before inventing handy nuclear reactors giving unlimited range to naval units ...

Spoiler :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire

 

[Jarms48]

I think that's going in the wrong direction. I don't want to re-hash a recent conversation from another thread, but I think being able to spam mines on every hill is a mistake. Others disagree and think it's important to be able to improve every tile with early techs, and they would likely agree with your suggestion about fishing boats for the same reason. Me, I think even being able to put farms on every flatland is a mistake. At some point in past iterations of Civ you could only farm land adjacent to fresh water, and then farm adjacent to other farms as you extended your irrigation network.

There's an odd inconsistency with resource improvements in Civ 6. Fishing boats, quarries, plantations, lumber mills, oil wells can only be placed on a relevant resource. Farms and mines, though, can be placed on any flatland/hill tile even without a relevant resource.

I actually think that's a great idea. Restricting mines to resources, and restricting farms to resources / river adjacency / farm adjacency would definitely increase strategic depth. It then brings the scenario of "do I harvest this resource now, or never be able to use it again?" Instead of just losing the bonus yields from the resource, you lose the ability to build the improvement as well. It also indirectly buffs the discovery of strategic resources, as each gives you the ability to build more mines.

This also gives the opportunity to revamp district adjacencies. Maybe aqueducts could increase adjacent farm yields, Industrial districts could improve adjacent mine / lumber mill / oil well yields.

 

[historix69]

Good ideas.
Just recently I thought that it might be more interesting if industrials districts would gain +2 per respective resource instead of +1 per hill/mine. Always placing industrial districts near hills and chop every forest on hills to build mines to get adjacency bonus feels wrong.

 

[Trengilly]

There are so many strange balance things its hard to know where to start. Food is all messed up. For the most part you don't ever need to build farms which makes no sense. There should be very little food available unless you farm (or fish). Also until the industrial revolution it was nearly impossible to transport large amounts of food (it spoiled before you could move it or the horses ate more than they could transport). It makes no sense that you can so easily transport food from early trade routes.

Basic tile yields are ok I guess but farms, mines, etc should provide more than they do now. And district buildings should gain bonuses based on how many improvements you have. Granary +1 food for every farm, Workshop +1 for each quarry/lumbermill, Factory +1 for each mine (+2 for coal etc.). This would make it important to actually build the later buildings but also place them in cities with the resources they need.

 

[Sostratus]

I do miss how Civ5's maritime buildings gave production to sea resources. I was a bit disappointed there is only 1 food and 2 gold for sea resources in the harbor in Civ6; while I really love the shipyard's mechanic, I could see how the fact that we lost the extra fishing boat hammer was hard on our coastal cities. I think if one were to add that, though, it best be applied to fishing boats and not just sea resources generally. That's only 2-3 production in a decent coastal city, but it would make the fishing boats feel more substantial. (While leaving coast tiles where they are.)

I do wish they'd bring back the land resource buildings for the city center (civ5's stoneworks, stable, forge, mint, and granary all boosted specific resources in the city limits.) Not only to make the city center a bit more prominent (it is the city center, after all) but also to give a counterweight to the harvest mania we have under Magnus.

 

[Nefelia]

I find ocean tiles underwhelming for a number of reasons. Chief among them is the fact that you can't build districts on tiny islands without sacrificing what little workable land you may have.

Singapore and Hong Kong demonstrate that it is quite possible for small plots of land to contain a large number of districts.

I had long thought that the game should allow districts to be built on coastal tiles. Even a one-tile island represents a respectable amount of land in game terms.

R&F's Water Park is a move in the right direction, and a far better idea than just being allowed to build an Entertainment district on the coast. I very much would like to see more alternative districts made available for placement on coastal tiles. It would add some additional flavour to the game while solving one of the game's long-standing issues.

 

[Pietato]

I have 10 cities and feel I am doing pretty well... in fact I even have 10 trade routes so I am doing awesome. I have slotted the card that gives +2 gold per route so i am getting +20 gold... great.

Hang on.. I have 2 cities with harbours. The average is 4 adjacency on a harbour triangle so the card will give me with a shipyard +8 gold and +8 production. In a golden it could also give me +8 science.... at least you did not say never

Would be 40 gold and 10 faith from trade routes at that stage.

 

[Victoria]

Would be 40 gold and 10 faith from trade routes at that stage.

nope, that’s 30-40 turns later unless really pushing culture big time.

 

[historix69]

I find ocean tiles underwhelming for a number of reasons. Chief among them is the fact that you can't build districts on tiny islands without sacrificing what little workable land you may have.

Singapore and Hong Kong demonstrate that it is quite possible for small plots of land to contain a large number of districts.

I had long thought that the game should allow districts to be built on coastal tiles. Even a one-tile island represents a respectable amount of land in game terms.

R&F's Water Park is a move in the right direction, and a far better idea than just being allowed to build an Entertainment district on the coast. I very much would like to see more alternative districts made available for placement on coastal tiles. It would add some additional flavour to the game while solving one of the game's long-standing issues.

That's a good idea. Maybe someone with the appropriate art skills can mod normal districts to be placed on coastal tiles, too. This would add more flexibility to coastal and small island cities. Maybe coastal district tiles then could work as bridges for land units and canals for naval units, too.

Maybe the devs will do an official Polynesian Civ with floating districts for the next DLCs/AddOn.

 

[Pietato]

nope, that’s 30-40 turns later unless really pushing culture big time.

Shipyard is renaissance tech, Triangular Trade is renaissance culture.

 

[Victoria]

Shipyard is renaissance tech, Triangular Trade is renaissance culture.

yes I guess its the civ and style you play, I'll give you that. I make shipyard before I make triangular

 

[Pietato]

yes I guess its the civ and style you play, I'll give you that. I make shipyard before I make triangular

Well I do go heavy trade routes, but 40-60 turns is nuts.