I think Napoleon should be the leader - there is a Napoleonic Wars scenario in the expansion after all.
Should Joan of Arc remain leader of France
- Thread starter Ian Beale
- Start date
Eastern Knight
Dragons!
of course it should be napoleon, after all Joan of Arc wasn't even French
Akka
Moody old mage.
Urgh...
Some points...
1) Caesar was Emperor. "Imperator" was the title of the victorious general after a campaign. Caesar took this title and assumed the position of a dictator, because the title of "king" was bad memories for Rome. He WAS in fact the leader of Rome.
2) Jeanne d'Arc was a general, and never a ruler. She came to Domrémy to pledge allegiance to the King in the first place after all.
3) The peak of French power was from Louis XIII/Louis XIV to Napoléon defeat. Jeanne d'Arc happened to come at the LOWEST point in whole France's history (except for WW2, and still...), with most of the kingdom under long-time rules from English.
3 bis) The French UU of the game is a special musketman, a unit that refers to the Imperial Era, precisely the time of Louis XIV, and you can stretch the definition of musketman to Napoleon's grenadiers. Another reason to take either above Jeanne d'Arc.
Conclusion : Louis XIV is the best bet. Napoléon is a worthy possibility. Jeanne d'Arc should never ever been considered. Let's shoot the one who came with this utterly most stupid idea.
*BLAM*
PS : It's "Marie Antoinette".
PPS : It's not "Claude Depardu", it's "Gérard Depardieu".
Some points...
1) Caesar was Emperor. "Imperator" was the title of the victorious general after a campaign. Caesar took this title and assumed the position of a dictator, because the title of "king" was bad memories for Rome. He WAS in fact the leader of Rome.
2) Jeanne d'Arc was a general, and never a ruler. She came to Domrémy to pledge allegiance to the King in the first place after all.
3) The peak of French power was from Louis XIII/Louis XIV to Napoléon defeat. Jeanne d'Arc happened to come at the LOWEST point in whole France's history (except for WW2, and still...), with most of the kingdom under long-time rules from English.
3 bis) The French UU of the game is a special musketman, a unit that refers to the Imperial Era, precisely the time of Louis XIV, and you can stretch the definition of musketman to Napoleon's grenadiers. Another reason to take either above Jeanne d'Arc.
Conclusion : Louis XIV is the best bet. Napoléon is a worthy possibility. Jeanne d'Arc should never ever been considered. Let's shoot the one who came with this utterly most stupid idea.
*BLAM*
PS : It's "Marie Antoinette".
PPS : It's not "Claude Depardu", it's "Gérard Depardieu".
kryszcztov
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,423
Well, Akka, I really agree with you !! 
And though a lot of people will still argue about this in the future, I want to say one thing :
No more Joan of Arc as the French ruler, bring back Louis XIV !
Period.
P.S. : I'm French... ... ...
And though a lot of people will still argue about this in the future, I want to say one thing :No more Joan of Arc as the French ruler, bring back Louis XIV !
Period.
P.S. : I'm French... ... ...
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
Napoleon all the way
Loaf Warden
(no party affiliation)
I can see Joan of Arc as a Great Leader for the French civ, but I never bought her as ruler. Joan of Arc was a military leader. She may have had some influence over the Dauphin, but she could hardly be said to have ruled France.
I voted for Louis XIV in the poll. He strengthened the government of France and turned it into a unified state, and also consolidated the colonial territories, making France a world power.
A strong case could also be made for Napoleon, however. Though it's true that far too much of his focus was on his doomed wars of conquest, and, like Alexander, the massive empire his armies built fell apart once his reign ended, I would also have to say that it would be disingenuous to say that he was 'just' a warlord. Though he did crown himself Emperor, he still believed in freedom for the people, and he did a lot of good for the common folk of France. The French legal system is still based on the Code Napoléon even today.
So a case could be made for either Louis XIV or Napoleon, in my opinion. As I say, I lean toward the Sun King, but if they did change it to Napoleon, I wouldn't complain. I do complain about Joan of Arc, though. Ruler of the French civ is a title she has no rights to. She should be one of the Great Leaders that can appear after a military victory, and I would strongly support her in that role. But ruler of France itself she was not, and should not be.
I voted for Louis XIV in the poll. He strengthened the government of France and turned it into a unified state, and also consolidated the colonial territories, making France a world power.
A strong case could also be made for Napoleon, however. Though it's true that far too much of his focus was on his doomed wars of conquest, and, like Alexander, the massive empire his armies built fell apart once his reign ended, I would also have to say that it would be disingenuous to say that he was 'just' a warlord. Though he did crown himself Emperor, he still believed in freedom for the people, and he did a lot of good for the common folk of France. The French legal system is still based on the Code Napoléon even today.
So a case could be made for either Louis XIV or Napoleon, in my opinion. As I say, I lean toward the Sun King, but if they did change it to Napoleon, I wouldn't complain. I do complain about Joan of Arc, though. Ruler of the French civ is a title she has no rights to. She should be one of the Great Leaders that can appear after a military victory, and I would strongly support her in that role. But ruler of France itself she was not, and should not be.
wouldn't it interesting if you had different leaders for different levels of the game, reflecting their success history a little ie Joan of Arc for Chieftain players upto Louis XIV for Deity, mind you it might be difficult to find 6 different ones for some civs
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
Now you'd have to find 8 different ones.
kring
Asst Cook & Bottle Washer
You would only need 7 since you already have the current one.
I posted elsewhere about how much space leaderhead art takes up, but it bears remembering if you want to add 7 new leaderheads to the 32 civs (including the Bonus Austria Civ) . You would need somewhere between 21 MB and 30.5 MB per leaderhead and King Unit combination (x 7 additional difficulty levels x 32 civs). This doesn't include the time factor, which would be high for the new (32x7) leaderheads and King units. These numbers are based on PtW: the leaderheads for PtW range from 20-28+ MB, with units running around 1-2.5+ MB in size.
Depending on which site you believe, C3C needs between 650 MB and 800 MB HD space in addition to the Civ 3 install.
Superevie
Latina Goddess™
I'd like Napolean to be the leader. I, being a girl, like having more female leaders, but Joan is wimpy. Napolean is an angry little man that is tons of fun for the whole family! 
Maybe they should trade out one of the male leaders for a female one so the numbers are still even.
Maybe they should trade out one of the male leaders for a female one so the numbers are still even.
Loaf Warden
(no party affiliation)
Well, the numbers aren't exactly even to begin with. As of PTW, 19 of the 24 rulers are male, and only 5 are female.
I can understand the necessity of having female rulers in the game, but of course there is no necessity for any one specific civ to have a female ruler. If France absolutely had to have a female ruler, I'd say Catherine de Medicis would be a more logical choice than Joan of Arc. She at least was a real queen with real power. Joan of Arc was influential and important to French history, sure, but as I've said, ruler of France itself is a title she has no historically sound rights to. As valid candidates for ruler of France, I place her only slightly above Alizée, and frankly, I'd rather look at Alizée during negotiations than that scary bald Joan in drag.
I can understand the necessity of having female rulers in the game, but of course there is no necessity for any one specific civ to have a female ruler. If France absolutely had to have a female ruler, I'd say Catherine de Medicis would be a more logical choice than Joan of Arc. She at least was a real queen with real power. Joan of Arc was influential and important to French history, sure, but as I've said, ruler of France itself is a title she has no historically sound rights to. As valid candidates for ruler of France, I place her only slightly above Alizée, and frankly, I'd rather look at Alizée during negotiations than that scary bald Joan in drag.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
Joan is OK, but id rather have Napoleon, "the French General who kicked some serious A$$"
Portuguese
Vassalising Spain
Chirac is a Joke!
Napoleon is the best one.
I vote for Louis XIV, as it is my personal favourite!
Napoleon is the best one.
I vote for Louis XIV, as it is my personal favourite!
tctatheel7
Running Silent, and Deep
Correction: the ONLY French General who kicked ANY A$$
Akka
Moody old mage.
Correction : the only French General that ignorant Americans know about
Non-ignorant Americans should not feel targeted by this one.
sealman
Hater of Babylonians
Originally posted by Akka
Correction : the only French General that ignorant Americans know about
Non-ignorant Americans should not feel targeted by this one.
And don't forget the one French General that even ignorant Americans SHOULD know. Marie Du Motier. Also known as the Marquis de Lafayette.
Moderator Action: Okay, enough bashing of ignorant Americans. 
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
tctatheel7
Running Silent, and Deep
Another Correction: The only French general that an American high school freshman knows about
EVERYONE THINKS IM SO STUPID, BUT IM REALLY JUST A KID
MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BASH SOMEBODY IF YOU DONT'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE, AND THAT THEY'RE EXTRMELY SMART FOR THEIR AGE AND THAT THEY WERE JUST MAKING A JOKE
Expletive deleted
Moderator Action: Settle down, tctatheel7, or you will get a vacation for flaming! Just ignore trolls when you read them! --Padma
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
EVERYONE THINKS IM SO STUPID, BUT IM REALLY JUST A KID
MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BASH SOMEBODY IF YOU DONT'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE, AND THAT THEY'RE EXTRMELY SMART FOR THEIR AGE AND THAT THEY WERE JUST MAKING A JOKE
Expletive deleted
Moderator Action: Settle down, tctatheel7, or you will get a vacation for flaming! Just ignore trolls when you read them! --Padma
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
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