I would love colonies and vassals back. I also agree that there needs to be some sort of rebellion expansion. It is long past due. The developers have said that they have avoided revolutions because, like Dark Ages, they are annoying and do not make the game more fun. However, I think if they made revolutions work the way that some modders have (where you can choose which side you will play as during and after the revolution), it would really cut down on the annoyance factor.
Should we bring back vassals and colonies?
- Thread starter ShahJahanII
- Start date
jbevermore
Warmongering Menace
Gotta disagree with colonies. Civ 5 has enough anti growth mechanisms in place and puppet states more or less work this way as it is.
With Civ 4 it made a bit more sense (and much more in Paradox games like EU3 where you have a constant revolt risk to deal with) since the hammer was finances and not happiness.
I wouldn't mind a form of vassels states coming back though, both for broken enemies and when I end up taking cities on the other end of the world I don't care to deal with.
With Civ 4 it made a bit more sense (and much more in Paradox games like EU3 where you have a constant revolt risk to deal with) since the hammer was finances and not happiness.
I wouldn't mind a form of vassels states coming back though, both for broken enemies and when I end up taking cities on the other end of the world I don't care to deal with.
There would need to be some sort of downside to it. For example, in Civ IV, for each vassal you had maintenance costs would rise. A revolution mechanism could do the trick. If they were added in to your global happiness it would kind of be messed up (if the Americans are unhappy, then the Britain will revolt, etc.)
Uncle Anton
Lighthorseman
Well, there's plenty of evidence that the devs don't know WTH they're talking about in this regard... If you need proof, simply look at the number, quality, popularity and download count of Revolutions/DCM Based Civ 4 mods on this site.
The fact is that a Revolutions feature which can be turned on or off, proved exceptionally popular and in fact does a great deal to extend Civ 4's current lifecycle.
WimpyTheWarrior
Warlord
I always preferred the colonies from Civ-3; where you consumed a worker unit (not a settler) on the resource tile to add the resource to your empire.
ShahJahanII
Homesick Alien
By revolutions I mean a system of colony/vassal and ruler/master relations where the vassal/colony can break away from the original master/ruler by perhaps, declaring war. Or , we could use the rebellion system where if you get -20 
then barbarians will appear in your territory. So you would have to put down these rebellions constantly to keep your colonies stable. Things that would make colonies happy are: adopting favorable policies, military support, good trade relations. Things that would make a colony unhappy would be unfavorable policies, or bad trade relations.
then barbarians will appear in your territory. So you would have to put down these rebellions constantly to keep your colonies stable. Things that would make colonies happy are: adopting favorable policies, military support, good trade relations. Things that would make a colony unhappy would be unfavorable policies, or bad trade relations.The main thing I'd want if they don't do real colonies is some kind of colonist unit that can plant puppet cities. I don't mind the puppet city mechanic, I just want some way of getting new puppets down onto unclaimed land. I hate having lots of unclaimed areas in the late game; a few islands is one thing, but there are often decently large tracts of land outside of any national border.
One of my favourite things about Civ III.
It was a good mechanic and I think they should have found a way to retain it.
Vassalage would be great for ciV, in name anyway. I always miss vassal states everytime I liberate a conquered civ's capital, and they're eternal grateful to me...scratch that, they're eternally guarded instead...WTH? The only benefit (aside from the supposed lower happiness and buffer zone, which technically have nothing to do with the act of liberation anyway) is the perma-open border with that revived civ.
One way to make it slightly more reasonable is to turn said liberated civ into a city state, with a very high influence score (to simulate the vassalage), that way there's no need to add an extra mechanic. Maybe if they change the CS mechanics so that being allied with them also grants you 5-10% of their gold income, and the more cities the CS has (such as when it conquers another CS), the faster your influence drops, to simulate a resistance to cultural assimilation, and not have the CS burn cities it captures.
As for colonies, we really just need an option when we settle a city that we can choose to have it a regular one, or a puppet, and change puppet building priority for defensive buildings to be lower, something like gold > growth/happiness > science > production > culture > defense (completed in this order in each tech tier then cycles back to the first), that way, you can have puppets, but it'll take them a long time to get up and running, making a direct-controlled city far more powerful/efficient.
One way to make it slightly more reasonable is to turn said liberated civ into a city state, with a very high influence score (to simulate the vassalage), that way there's no need to add an extra mechanic. Maybe if they change the CS mechanics so that being allied with them also grants you 5-10% of their gold income, and the more cities the CS has (such as when it conquers another CS), the faster your influence drops, to simulate a resistance to cultural assimilation, and not have the CS burn cities it captures.
As for colonies, we really just need an option when we settle a city that we can choose to have it a regular one, or a puppet, and change puppet building priority for defensive buildings to be lower, something like gold > growth/happiness > science > production > culture > defense (completed in this order in each tech tier then cycles back to the first), that way, you can have puppets, but it'll take them a long time to get up and running, making a direct-controlled city far more powerful/efficient.
I liked that too.
That nerdy kid
Vampire Slayer Slayer
vassals would be a great addition, as long as you could eventually annex them (say happiness at 30, annex 1 vassal city, goes down to 20 for a few turns). colonies may be abused by the AI to take up as much land as possible (they already do).
That nerdy kid
Vampire Slayer Slayer
... ever played EU3? that would be an example of "annoying revolutions". the game says "your winning this war too much, we are going to start 20 revolutions in your empire to make you lose!
Colonies are definitely something that should be added to the game. It's odd that they aren't there, but perhaps the developers are waiting for a DLC focusing on colonisation or something. Vassals would also seem to work with the city state, or a reworking of the puppet option.
Altial
Chieftain
I used to love colonies and vassal estates, I only used to wish if there was a way to give colonies complete independence and be able to declare war against them after, same with vassal estates
ShahJahanII
Homesick Alien
both of these are good suggestions
maybe if they add in the Dutch, Portuguese, and Ethiopia civs, they will make a colonization dlc
