Should You Be Able To Trade Units?

[Licentia]

I think the key would be making it possible to lend powerful units to otherwise "primitive" or "backwards" Civs, without totally warping the balance of the game. The prior is realistic, but the second is a major strategic concern. The realism and strategy both need to be there.

Give or Sell units to a backward nation is good. But that nation shouldn't be able to build those units.

 

[Licentia]

Of course you should be able to sell/gift units. I would impose only 2 limitations. The first would be you can give/sell only x amount of units over y number of turns, this would be dependent on the size of the other civ's military and perhaps the era you are in. Otherwise, you would have exploits such as the one below:

India has both incense and gems and will not sell you any, because they are mad at you. So, you call up Persia, who is your buddy, and is right next door to India, and give them 50 Modern Armors. Then you get them to declare war on India. 5 turns later, Ghandi is bawling in one of his three remaining cities, and your luxury box now has incense and gems in it courtesy of a happily grinning Xerxes.

The second limitation I would impose is on nuke trading. This should be severely frowned upon by all nations, though it can occur. If you do it, and the civ uses the nuke, there is a chance you are discovered as the supplier. Severe diplomatic and military consequences follow for you. Only 1 nuke may be traded to a given Civ every 20 turns.

Well than, to fix that... like it was in Civ1, you can have India get mad at you for requesting that Persia attack them so that there if you gave away 50 armor you would be defenseless.

 

[Licentia]

I remember in Civ2 trying to help another nation save itself from oblivion, without having to go to war. I offered them units many times, but since they were units that the AI could already make or because they weren't the absolute top of the line, the AI wouldn't accept them. Then... The AI nation was destroyed.

I want that kind of stupidity eliminated if they do allow unit trading.

 

[doc mabuse]

It would be nice though if u could send out a garrison of units to help out another civ, that is not yet well developed. They would never be the owner of the units but could order them to fight as long as you have a MPP with that nation and are in war with a common enemy.
Actually, i quite liked the idea in civ 2, that when trading modern units to a scientific minor civ, a scientific revolution could take place...

 

[Erik Mesoy]

My take on the idea: Unbalanceable (selling cities in the original game) and abusable (ditto).
Mobilization.
Tech levels.
Getting the AI to use it.

Don't.

 

[Chazbagel]

YES! This would be great for the Dutch, Greeks, Carth, and all the civs that have Defensive UUs. This way they can trade them to a civ that has spears who is at war with someone with an Offensive UU.. I think they should definatly have this in there. But if i liked Offensive Civs, i wouldnt. hehe

But also I think that the civ that gave the units should be given credit. Like if i was the dutch and i gave the Germans Swiss Mercenaries, I would want to see Swiss Mercenaries (Dutch) but with the German colors. and if those mercenaries won, i would want to get the golden age, not the germans.

 

[RoboPig]

I feel that you should rent units for a speccific time.

For Example: Say you are this mighty nation with an Army that is not being used. Unfortunaely you have no Uranium. However there is a small country with 2 sources of uranium. So it is trading uranium with you.That leaves no spare uranium. Now on this country's other border there is a second Giant Nation. It to has no Uranium and it cant trade with the tiny nation because then they wont have any uranium. So they decide to invade. Now you dont wanna enter this war, but you still want your uranium. So you let the defenders RENT units for 1 gold per turn. If they lose the unit they pay you 10 gold,lump sum.That way you got your uranium without fighting.

 

[Dida]

Trading arm might not be that important, but at least we should be able to give them away, for free as a way to help our friends in war.

 

[h4ppy]

I was going to vote yes, but I already did! Also 100 votes Woowee!!!

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hmmm, perhaps another possibility might be to make it that, for every tech level a civ is BEHIND the tech level of the unit you give it, then the greater the penalty to their AS, DS and morale when they use it-to reflect their lack of knowledge with the technology. Of course, this would also reduce the value of the unit in the eyes of the potential buyer.
This might be another good reason to have a seperate 'sell arms' and 'loan units' choice in diplomacy. To reflect the difference between selling the armaments and giving them mercenaries.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Just to get the armstrading going in the modern era - I suggest a no-upgrade option for the mechanized units, no armor->modern armor or fighters->stealths, for example.
You'd either have to delete your old units, or trade or rent them to another civ.

Perhaps there could be a 'pot' (up until some point) where the deleted units go to (like in Medieval: Total War), where the nearby civs can pick them up as mercenaries for a double upkeep.
The same could be applied when civs give units for nothing - double upkeep for the receiving civ. Just to avoid too much exploitation.

 

[Dida]

I think merchanized units are already non-upgradable. I have notice I cannot upgrade bombers to stealth bombers.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Fighters upgrade to jetfighters, don't they?! and armours to modern armours?! I assumed that it was the same for jets to stealths, but I'm not sure. It was a long time since I played for so long, and at all for the matter....

Do any of the steelships upgrade?

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Cruiser (C3C only) to AEGIS Cruiser.

 

[Dida]

I see. But w/o being able to sell them or give them away, they MUST make the units upgradable in Civ3. But I would like to see them non-upgradable, and we should be able to give them away or sell them. Renting is kind of complicated. I don't think I want to handle all that in the game.

 

[GR8Madmax]

Around 88% of those voted want something like this in Civ4. Are you listening, Firaxis?

 

[Lockesdonkey]

I see. But w/o being able to sell them or give them away, they MUST make the units upgradable in Civ3. But I would like to see them non-upgradable, and we should be able to give them away or sell them. Renting is kind of complicated. I don't think I want to handle all that in the game.

If you don't want to, you don't have to.

 

[Dida]

If you don't want to, you don't have to.

Please note, I said: "I would to see them non-upgradable AND being able to give them away or sell them." This is a 'b AND b' relationship, not 'a OR b'. Both conditions, a and b have to hold for the statement to take effect.

That is, for me to like the system, a merchanize unit has to be both non-upgradable, and tradable.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I saw exactly where you were coming from from the get-go, Dida, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Truth is that many-if not ALL-of the First World powers sell their obsolete tanks and other mechanized units to third world nations (and less powerful allies). Beats having to pay maintainance, and is often better than simply disbanding them-which earns the disbander no extra cash at all !

Of course, for this to work best, it would be neccessary to have somewhat FINER gradations of mechanized units than simply Tank------>Modern Armour.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Dida]

Or, it could work like this.
With tank warfare, the player will be able to make basic tank. After he discover some other stuff, like radar, he can upgrade his tank to take advantage of radar. When advanced armory is discovered, he can upgrade his tanks to have extra armor. But he will not able able to upgrade to Modern Armour,which is a compeltely different unit.

This would work well for nuclear technology. First, the player discovers fission,which is quite useless, than he research atomic weaponry or something, and makes atomic bomb, which need to be dropped from an airplane. Then he can research space flight, balistic missle which will give him conventional missle, and warhead technology enable him to mount warhead on a missle to make ICBM.