SirJethro's DyP II - "The Emperor's New Mod"

[SirJethro]

It is the year 1250 AD, and a small raft comes ashore in the city of SirJethro Stables. A small crowd of citizens and soldiers gathers on the beach as a stately gent in full armor disembarks. Aside from his awe inspiring appearance, they are floored that one could survive on a raft under the sun's gaze in such gear. The crowd hushes as he begins to speak:

"New Jethrovia has fallen. Four hundred years ago my namesake and great great great great great great grandfather, Sir Jethro IV, left these lands in honor and retired to New Jethrovia where his offspring have led a peaceful and prosperous life in the seafood and iron trade (miners love lobster).

"The peace is now broken, and I have returned. I come to you now at the turn of the tide....."

(got it)

 

[SirJethro]

Ehhh....donde esta el savegame?

 

[pdescobar]

Quokka, multiple slave trade wonders are just a redundancy. In my test game I have about 6 of them and there is no change to production or happiness from when I only had mine. And the double-unhappiness from later wonders appears to be non-cumulative, unfortunately, so even with something like 10 slave trades and 10 unhappiness doublers you will only get 2 unhappy peoples per city from them.

 

[SirJethro]

Pdescobar....the main downside in my mind is when a player doesn't want a Slave Trade at all. I never built the one for my own Civ, but now that I've conquered Civs that had one I'm stuck with the unhappiness effect. But I can't get rid of them, and it propogates the slave markets to my original cities. I preferred the Slave Markets the way they were in the earlier builds...as a city improvement.

 

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by pdescobar
AFAIK, declaring war that way is treated just like a broken RoP. No idea if there was anything else that happened to hurt the rep, but that may be enough.

Really!?!? Even if the RoP was expired? (Which is the only reason they demanded we leave.)

If that is the case, I am really sorry about that guys. I didn't realize our rep would take such a hit which is why I waited til after the treaty had expired. I just assumed everybody ganged up on us because we were on the wrong side of the alliance system and things might have worked out differently if I had tried to work some diplomatic magic with the other civs before they declared war on us.

 

[Kal-el]

We are hoping that Conquests will allow us to make improvements obsolete. Right now only Great Wonders can become obsolete and since I didn't want Slave Markets available in the modern age I decided to go with the current set up. They will all go away once you discover emancipation.

I kind of like that you don't have complete control over it. Gives a bit of realism to the mod.

 

[cromagnon]

Crikey! That's what I get for trying to squeeze turns in in a rush. Sorry I forgot the savegame.

Let me see if this works; if not, I may be able to e-mail it to you. El savegame esta aqui:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/SJDyPII_1250AD.SAV

Kal-el, while not technically RoP rape (the RoP had expired), you do suffer a rep hit if you have units in enemy territory when you declare war. Also, I don't think they all piled on us because of the rep hit. I think they did it because we were weak (a couple of cities were undefended).

 

[SirJethro]

okay, got it

 

[SirJethro]

"A Concise History of Sir Jethro V"

Let's see. Let me just start off by saying how utterly annoying it is that our empire is stuck in the margins of the mini-map. Now, I have but two goals for now: (1) Free Tibet, and (2) end all other wars as soon as possible.

Inherited Turn: Change the following cities to Monuments to expand borders: Little Bighorn, Leh, Gartock. Anybody producing Mujadid was changed to Heavy Horsemen (same cost and offense, but better defense and upgrade path). Change IOB and SirJethro Farms to Heavy Horsemen and rush them both (380 and 280 gp). Also rush HHmen in Tuskany and Dyed Pretty. Upgrade warrior in SJ Stables for 40 to MI. I hit the spacebar.....

OT: Elephant Rider comes barrelling out of Chamdo and attacks Tuskany (1 Pikeman). Our pike got down to 1 hp, but holds. Yikes, that was close.

Dyed Pretty: HH>Pike;
Tuskany: HH>Pike
Golden Blubber: Carrack>Pike
IOB: HH>Aqueduct
Disease strikes Jungle Island
SirJethro Farms: HH>Harbor
Polynesians, Incas are building Leo's

1255 AD: Make peace with Ethiopia for even-steven.
Carrack attacks Siamese War Galley.
Rushed Harbor in Wheat Thins (25gp)

OT: China and Inca team up against Polynesia
Second Siamese War Galley attacks our Carrack and sinks it. Grrr.
Quokkaton: HH>Carrack
Disease in Jungle Island again
Wheat Thins: Harbor>worker (because it is a three tile island, once we fortify a worker on the last open tile, it can't be attacked until marines).
Polynesians building Magellan's
Ethiopia and Tibet engage in Trade Embargo against us.

1260 AD: We attack Lhasa: 3 Ghurka's and 1 Spear killed. We lose no units, but get no leaders. 3 workers captured. One Vet HH becomes Elite. Monument ordered. Starvation ensues.

Upgrade Marco Polo to Explorer (20gp).
Rush Monument in Little Bighorn (130gp)
Change North Big Island from Forbidden Palace to Library. I'm not a fan of this as a spot for FP. I'd really like to see it in Little Bighorn to more maximize our main island. Putting it there will also improve corruption quite a bit on the Big Island anyway.

OT: China and Inca for alliance against Ethiopia.
Ethiopia and Polynesia sign Trade Embargo against us.
Little Bighorn: Monument>FP
Iron Mountain: HH>Bazaar
Golden Blubber: Pike>Library
China building Gutenburg's Bible

1265: I give Inca's 100gp for peace (I hate it too, but we need to end the war).
I negotiate even-steven peace with Polynesia. Only Siam and Tibet are left at war with us.
Upgrade Trading Ship at Golden Blubber to Caravel.
We attack Iyekundo. First Veteran HH wins and becomes Elite. Second Regular HH dies, only causing 1hp damage. Veteran MI kills spear w/o a scratch. Veteran MI kills spear with only 1hp damage. There is still the Ghurka who beat our second HH left (he has 2 hp). I'll have to wait til next turn.
Rush Monument is Issachia for 60 gp.
We attack Chamdo: Veteran Mujadid kills Ghurka, becomes elite. Veteran HH dies to redlined Ghurka. Veteran HH kills 3hp Ghurka. Will have to wait until next turn to finish (not enough units in the area).
Rush Monument in Leh.

OT: Quokkaton: Carrack>Bazaar;
Sikkem: Monument>Wiseman;
Leh: Monumen>Wiseman;
Dyed Pretty: Pike>Academy
Tuskany: Pike>Library
Issachia: Monument>Pioneer

1270: In Chamado, Elite Mujadid kills Ghurka (redlines, no leader). Veteran HH dies to Ghurka (no damage). Veteran HH redlines but kills Ghurka, becomes Elite. Veteran Mujadid kills Spear. Will have to wait until next turn to finish (again). But will get another shot at a leader then.

In Iyekundo, Veteran MI dies to 3hp Ghurka, but redlines him and exposes a spear. 3hp MI attacks 3hp spear and wins. 3hp Elite HH attacks 1hp Ghurka. Wins and PRODUCES A LEADER. We capture Ikekundo. We change Ikekundo to Leo's (Kal-el switched to Palace for now). Science set to 0.

OT: Golden Blubber: Library>Guild Hall
Iyekundo: Leo's>Wiseman
We learn Perspective, Army Tactics (we are on a mission for Encyclopdia, using the Palace in Kal-el). Set research to Matchlock at 30% in 11 turns.
Siamese, Incas, Chinese building Gutenburg's Bible. Polynesians, Chinese building Magellan's Voyage.

1275: Carrack attacks Siamese War Galley and wins.
In Chamado, Elite HH attacks spear and wins. 4hp Elite HH attacks unfortified 4hp spear and barely loses...the redlined spear becomes elite and gets 2 more hps. 3hp Elite attacks 3hp spear (last chance for a leader). Wins but no leader. Chamado falls. Monument ordered.

We now control our main land and the big island. Tibet has another city way off on an island that I don't care about too much, so I'm going to make peace with them. We need to starve their cities down pretty far to make sure they don't eventually flip one day.

Peace with Tibet. They give WM, 24gp and 1gpt.

Rush worker in Wheat Thins for 35gp.

OT: Tibet and China sign alliance against Poly.
Wheat Thins: Worker>Monument

1280: notta

OT: China wants to renew Alliance against Siam. No way. However, I trade China Elephants, Iron, Dyes, Cotton, Sugar and Perspective for Silks, Coffee, Printing Press, Physics and 1200gp. China has 5569 gp in treasury!!

Dyed Pretty: Academy>Bazaar.
Tuskany: Library>Bazaar
Rottnest: Barracks>Aqueduct

1285: I crank science up to 80% to get Matchlock in 3. We've got to rush to get Encyclo.

Trade Polynesia Perspective for 475gp and WM.
Make peace with Siam for 5gp and 2gpt.
Trade Inca Perspective for 400gp and WM.

Switch Kal-el to Sistine Chapel (17 turns). We need to get Humanism before 17 turns is up. We have 3 turns for Matchlock, then need to research Divine Right and Humanism.

Rush Monuments in Gargoth (65gp), Chamado (130gp), Lhasa (125gp). Still starving any Tibet city with more than 3 citizens.

OT: Inca and Polynesia kiss and make up.
Quokkaton: Bazaar>Academy
Ghartokh: Monument>Wiseman
Chamado: Monument>Wiseman
Lhasa: Monument>Wiseman
Darwin: Town Clock>Port

Chinese building Sistine Chapel

1290: zzzz

OT: Bear Butte: Tax Collector>Wiseman
Sikkem:Wiseman>Tax Collector
Leh: Wiseman>Tax Collector

1295: Adjust slider for last turn of Matchlock

OT: Matchlock>Divine Right (6 turns at a loss of 82gpt)
Quokkaton: Academy>Monastery
Hunkpapa: Forge>Library
Iyekundo: Wiseman>Taxman

1300: Worker movements.

Sell Matchlock to the world:
To China for 1295 gp.
To Polynesia for 590gp
To Inca for 390gp + 6gpt

As my last act in office, I'm issuing name changes for the following cities:
Lhasa >>> Cottonton
Gartohk >>> Sugar Bay
Leh >>> Silvertusk
Oglala >>> Dyed Ugly
Little Bighorn >>> Little Crabhorn
Sikkim >>> East Port
Chamdo >>> Land 'o Plenty
Hunkpapa >>> Goldmember
Iyekundo >>> Leo's Retreat
Bear Butte >>> no change...it makes me giggle
Wounded Knee >>> no change....my heart is buried there

Now that we have peace and our mainland controlled, I think we should cruise until Cavalry, and improve our empire. We need to get Encyclopedia, so manage Kal-el to that task. There is still quite a lot of settlement area, so I leave it to the next person to focus on that as well.

HERE IS THE SAVEGAME

 

[pdescobar]

Originally posted by SirJethro
Wheat Thins: Harbor>worker (because it is a three tile island, once we fortify a worker on the last open tile, it can't be attacked until marines).

Be careful with that assumption. Warriors, Champs, Swordsmen, and Spearmen can all attack amphibiously, and if the AIs have any left, they will use them that way (even the spear.)

 

[SirJethro]

Originally posted by pdescobar
Be careful with that assumption. Warriors, Champs, Swordsmen, and Spearmen can all attack amphibiously, and if the AIs have any left, they will use them that way (even the spear.)

WOAH! Thanks for that, I had no idea. Never seen the AI do it though. Can any medieval or industrial era units do that?

 

[pdescobar]

Originally posted by SirJethro
WOAH! Thanks for that, I had no idea. Never seen the AI do it though. Can any medieval or industrial era units do that?

Yeah, it's quite a shock when you forget about it and suddenly a swordsman jumps off a boat at you... Hmm. I have to always refer to the spreadsheet on this cause this is one area that's had a lot of recent changes. Perhaps I can make some progress on my super-secret documentation project this week, because a list of amphibious units is just the sort of thing I'd like to include.

Looks like the only other amphibious units are the Berserk, Marine, SpecialOps, and Mobile Infantry. Note that on the ancient units, all the UU and cultural flavors based on the 4 I listed have it as well. Oh, and technically the barb units have it but AFAIK they never actually appear on boats.

 

[cromagnon]

Upgrade Trading Ship at Golden Blubber to Caravel.

Sorry, I forgot to note this, but I'm glad it was obvious to you. Actually, those Siamese Warships were within striking distance of the trading ship, but didn't go for it for some reason.

On a related topic, I would have used Golden Blubber to build naval units as it has a naval base, and Quokkaton to build pikemen/land units.

Also, I went for Mujahid because of the move 3, which made the invasion of Tibet a little faster (Quokkaton was 3 turns from the front for Heavy Horsemen). but all that is moot now.

Bear Butte >>> no change...it makes me giggle

then start to kick some Sioux Butte

Me too!

Wounded Knee >>> no change....my heart is buried there

 

[SirJethro]

Originally posted by cromagnon
On a related topic, I would have used Golden Blubber to build naval units as it has a naval base, and Quokkaton to build pikemen/land units.

Yeah, I know. There was a reason I did that, but now I forgot what it was. Had something to do wtih me making a mistake in what I wanted to build in GB.

 

[Quokka]

Let me just start off by saying how utterly annoying it is that our empire is stuck in the margins of the mini-map.

This annoys the **** out of me too. How hard would it have been to make the player start in the center of the map?

Good Turn
Got it.

 

[Quokka]

Inherited Turn
We are heading for Humanism to get the Encyclopedia, so I will press forth with that in mind.
Diplomacy reveals that we are not well liked but we are the biggest and most advanced so the rest of the world be damned. I better not hear of any WMD’s.
Its a shame that we don’t have one of the Top 5 cities.

Change Quokkaton from Monastery to Monument. No need to build research buildings if we are going to coast on the Encyclopedia.
Rush Wiseman in Bear Butte for 20g
Rush Wiseman in Cottonton for 20g
Rush Tax Collector in East Port for 45g
MM Kal-el to slow down the Sistine build (14=>17) but bring back growth.
Rush Shrine in Dyed Ugly for 120g
Rush Tax Collector in Silvertusk for 45g
Change SJ Stables from Cuirassier to Town Clock
Change Goldmember from Library to Courthouse
Rush Port in Darwin for 220g.Even with a Forge, Wind Mill & Town Clock it still only makes 10spt
Change IOB from Aqueduct to Courthouse
Change NBI from Library to Shrine and rush for 130g
Change SJ Farms from Harbor to Courthouse
Change Rottnest from Aqueduct to Courthouse
Rush Monument in Wheat Thins for 130g

I think we should see if the Big Island will give us anything more than 1 shield/1 commerce towns before we build anymore improvements on it. The same for Rottnest. Wheat Thins needs some culture buildings to prevent a flip

I Tibet and China sign a MA against Ethiopia
Siamese start Magellan’s

1305 Quokkaton Monument=>Port
Bear Butte Wiseman=>Monument
Cottonton Wiseman=>Tax Collector
East Port Tax Collector=>Shrine
Dyed Ugly Shrine=>Harbor
Sugar Bay Wiseman=>Tax Collector
Silvertusk Tax Collector=>Harbor
Lo’P Wiseman=>Tax Collector
Darwin Port=>Courthouse
NBI Shrine=>Courthouse
Wheat Thins Monument=>Temple.

I would have liked to have seen the Leader used to rush the FP or even Leo’s in a decent city. It doubles the research output of its city as well as the 2 advances, so it’s pretty much wasted in Leo’s Retreat. The whole south of the island is completely corrupt, that’s a lot of wasted potential.
Little Craghorn has 192 turns left to build the FP.

1310 SJ Stables Town Clock=>Naval Base. We need on this side of the island.
Change Jungle Island from Pikeman to Barracks and rush for 120g

I notice there are 2 workers near Wheat Thins, 1 fortified and the other building a fortress. I load a Vet Pikeman and MEI onto the Trade Ship and send it there. It’ll pick up the Workers and the Worker from Rottnest and bring them to Home Island where they can do some good.
I upgrade the Spear for 20g and the Warrior for 40g
I also upgrade all the non-elite + SirJethro’s Heavy Horsemen to Cuirassiers for 250g
Mujahids are not upgradeable until the MODERN age
We also have and Explorer?? Well not for long, he’s going to make a new home in Dyed Pretty

I We get a West Wing and Gardens for our Palace

1315 Quokkaton Port=>Basilica
Dyed Pretty Bazaar=>Courthouse
Golden Blubber Guildhall=>Shrine
Jungle Island Barracks=>Pikeman

I Tibet and Siam sign a Peace Treaty

1320 Tuskany Bazaar=>Town Clock
Iron Mountain Bazaar=>Port

I China and Ethiopia sign a Peace Treaty
Tibet and Polynesia sign a Peace Treaty
China starts Newton’s University

1325 Divine Right discovered, researching Humanism in 6 at +40gpt
Golden Blubber Shrine=>Bazaar
Land o’ Plenty goes into disorder so I slow its growth to zero and hire 2 Tax Collectors

We could go to Absolute Monarchy now but I am not handing off the game in anarchy again so soon. The benefits are lesser corruption and more free troops. The downside is anarchy and loss of the commerce bonus. By my calculations we should be able to support all of our current troops for free, saving us about 80gpt, but will this make up for the loss of commerce? Or should we stay in Democracy until Federal Republic? We could get there in about 25 turns and save a period of anarchy. The Encyclopedia has about 16 turns left to go.

A check of the south shows that they are all about to disorder. They all have plenty of food surplus to turn into Tax Collectors.
Cottonton gets 3 Tax Collectors. 0 growth
Little Craghorn gets 1 Tax Collector. 0 growth
Bear Butte gets 2 Tax Collectors. 0 growth
Wounded Knee gets 1 Tax Collector. 0 growth
Dyed Ugly will grow to 8 in 1 and then I will hire a Tax Collector and set to 0 growth.

These cities are all considered ‘city’ level for working out free troop allowance. There is no point in letting them grow further until we get the FP and can use their production. If they grow they will riot and require Luxuries to keep them happy, a total waste of money.

I change my plans slightly about reinforcing the islands. The Trade Ship will first stop off on Jungle Island and grab the 3 workers there and head back, get upgraded at SJ Stables and then take the troops out.

1330 Quokkaton Basilica=>Marketplace
Sugar Bay Tax Collector=>Shrine
SJ Stables Naval Base=>Wind Mill
Disease strikes Dyed Pretty

The disease in Dyed Pretty was enough to keep research at 6 turns so I bump it to 4 turns at –37gpt because Disease will strike again this turn also.

I The Siamese start the Sistine Chapel

1335 Lo’P Tax Collector=>Shrine
Disease strikes Dyed Pretty

Upgrade Trade Ship for 20g

I The Incans want us to join an Embargo of the Ethiopians but won’t pay us anything so no go
The Polynesians build their Slave Trade in Ua Pou

1340 Dyed Pretty Courthouse=>Shrine

1345 Iron Mountain Port=>Guild Hall
Golden Blubber Bazaar=>Marketplace
Rush Courthouse on Darwin for 80g

1350 Humansim discovered, researching Jurisprudence in 5 at -22gpt
Darwin Courthouse=>Shrine
Leo’s Retreat Tax Collector=>Shrine
Disease strikes Dyed Pretty again!!!!
Kal-el swapped to Encyclopedia due in 12

East Port grows and goes into disorder. Sorry I missed it. I send a Cuirassier from Cottonton down as MP and hire 3 Tax Collectors to get 0 growth.

Notes
Dyed Pretty is going to get hit by disease again next turn so I have the tiles set to get the most food to make sure it also grows next turn. The Shrine would have been finished this turn, it was at 21 of 23spt but had dropped to miss by 2 shields.
The Forests between Kal-el and Iron Mountain need to be cleared and the Plains irrigated so that Iron Mountain can start producing some serious shields.
After the Marketplace is built in Quokkaton it should be switched to a pre-build for East India Company(680). Next turn its shields will go to 44 so it’ll be ready just after (in 16) the Encyclopedia (in 12) which will give us Magnetism and Bridge Building straight away.
If we need to do any more upgrading then do it before we get Leadership as that kills Sun Tzu.
I think a trade of Jurisprudence to the Incas will be in order as a special thankyou for all they have done for us.

There is nothing invested in Jurisprudence so its free to change.


SAVE

 

[cromagnon]

Nice work. Bummer about the disease.

No need to build research buildings if we are going to coast on the Encyclopedia.

My only concern with this is the current tech pace. We're halfway through the Renaissance age, and it's already 1350AD. China (and maybe Incans) are the only comparable techies, so I don't know how much we can "ride" the tech wave.

I'm all for keeping Democracy for now, as we don't plan any wars/conquests; better to solidify what we have and gain the commerce bonus. By the way, in the previous build, I used Constitutional Monarchy rather than Federal Republic; is the latter significantly better?

I think a trade of Jurisprudence to the Incas will be in order as a special thankyou for all they have done for us.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. I think Supreme Court would be much more useful to us, no?

This is not a 'got it,' as I think Kal-el is up. However, if he can't pick it up, I'll have a go at it.

Also, I'll be out of town for an extended weekend in Martha's Vineyard so skip me if I come up between Thursday and Monday.

 

[Kal-el]

I’ll have no chance to play for at least a week-and-a-half.

 

[SirJethro]

I would have liked to have seen the Leader used to rush the FP or even Leo’s in a decent city. It doubles the research output of its city as well as the 2 advances, so it’s pretty much wasted in Leo’s Retreat.

I agree, but I didn't have a boat there and was still at war. I didn't want to risk not being able to pull a leader on the mainland so I used it for Leo's to enable the Encyclopedia one Kal-el's already invested shields. Agree that the FP build looks pretty sorry now, but hopefully a good dose of WLTK could help it out. Or the next leader.

 

[cromagnon]

Got it