SM4 - The Great War

[adz106]

Smart,

When I mentioned being surrounded by several AI's I was thinking it would be bad for two reasons. The first as you mentioned, getting into an unwanted war with a second party. Secondly, on higher levels during expansion the AI has a wonderful tendency to launch settlers away from their core and plop them right where you want to put them. So I was thinking 2 would be better from an expansion point as well.

Did we decide where we are going to drop this first settler yet? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think we can make even one 4-turn settler factory with start 2. If we mine both BG's plus irrigate 2 wines that puts us at size 4 with 5spt, assuming we find TWO other BG's or one BG and a forest when we plot the settler we'll still only have 2*5+2+2*7+2 which puts us at 28 shields. So if we want a 4 turn SF we need to go with start 1 or keep rolling until we get a cattle or wheat because we can't do it with two wines.

We're also looking at a lot more worker turns to get a 5-turn SF up and running for start two vs. a 4-turn with start 1 because we can irrigate vs. mine and we have the forests.

 

[TimBentley]

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think we can make even one 4-turn settler factory with start 2. If we mine both BG's plus irrigate 2 wines that puts us at size 4 with 5spt, assuming we find TWO other BG's or one BG and a forest when we plot the settler we'll still only have 2*5+2+2*7+2 which puts us at 28 shields.

The factory can start at size 5.

 

[adz106]

Good Point I forgot the granary doesn't wear off till 7. I usually run them 4-6. That's why I only have 5 posts.

 

[Smart]

Ok I got it, first turns will be played tomorrow.

Good Point I forgot the granary doesn't wear off till 7. I usually run them 4-6. That's why I only have 5 posts.

There is a good article in War Academy about it: http://civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/settler_factory.php

 

[Smart]

Turn 0 - 4000 BC
Worker irrigates wines, settler was already moved.

Turn 1 - 3950 BC
Moved settler S and found 3 more BGs, very good for both settler factories.

Turn 2 - 3900 BC
Niagara Falls was founded, building warrior.
On huge map tech cost is very high and we have no chances for philosophy, also we need to survive vs first attack - with only warriors it's impossible.
Researching Bronze Working at max rate.

Turn 4 - 3800 BC
Roading irrigated wines.

Turn 7 - 3650 BC
Starting next warrior, moving worker to bg to road it.

Turn 11 - 3450 BC
Warrior is built, wines are connected, building mine on bg.
Since we will have 4 extra food in second town, better will be to build settler before granary, it will be done exactly on growth from size 3 to 4.
I want to see the place for second town and I sent warrior to the mountain.

Turn 12 - 3400 BC
We got cultural expansion and I see more wines and more bg's!
But SW from capital there is tundra and nothing more...
I found a goody hut but I won't pop it with a warrior because chances for something good on Deity are very low and we don't need to lose worker or get pillaged.

Turn 15 - 3250 BC
Capital grows to size 3.

Turn 17 - 3150 BC
Mine is built, MMing capital for extra commerce instrad of shield, settler will be done on growth anyway because we have forest tile and "emphasize production" in governor screen is turned on (it gives 2 free shields on every growth)
Moving worker to second wines for irrigation.

Turn 20 - 3000 BC
Settler is built, i'll leave it in capital for next player. Starting building granary.
Will we use CxxC for every city or CxxxC for first ring and then CxxC? On huge map there will be very much free space I think...
Moving warrior to 3NE, we can build city there or 1N1NW from warrior.

 

[ThERat]

ok got it, but where do we want to settle next?

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Try east of Niagra Falls with the river and wines.
Or you could settle next to goody hut so that it can't pop barbs...

 

[TimBentley]

NNW of warrior seems too loose, I would go for where the warrior stands.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

lurker's comment: If you wish to maximize your wines, I'd go with warrior spot, tundra next to the west most wines, then tundra next to the stray wines SE

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
I feel a little uneasy in a game we have to declare war on the first opponent and we play settler gambits
send the settler to that warrior spot

1.2950BC
found Grand River and research drop to 9

2.2900BC
move warrior north and spot dark red borders , looks like Byz, but they aren't in the game

3.2850BC
move warrior back to delay meeting them

4.2800BC
start mining BG and Grand river, we will need units when they rush to us

5.2750BC
Niagara Falls grows, work BG as well now

6.2710BC
zzz

7.2670BC
whoever that is popped another border just north of us
swap capital to rax

8.2630BC
lower science to 30%

IT we get BW, set research to WC

9.2590BC
I stop here for us to make decisions
capital is on rax, but could still be changed to a granary
I think we need an archer rush, WC would take 18 turns currently

the borders are very close !!!!

IIRC the color is sometime allocated to Babs...that would be brilliant...

 

[choxorn]

If Byz aren't in game, it can be Japan (that's bad) or Carthage (that's worse- beware Numidian Mercenaries!!), so I would delay contact until you have, oh say, 10-15 archers. BTW, Babs are Red or a very very dark blue color that I don't know the name of (Navy Blue?).

 

[ThERat]

I think delaying contant is a pipe dream, since they will approach us and not the other way round. I am surprised that on a hyge map, we get this

 

[madviking]

lurker's comment: What ever happened to Salamanca?

 

[Smart]

If we will be able to build granary and then rax before WC it's ok. Else lets continue working on rax and then - spears? We haven't other military units to build

What ever happened to Salamanca?

When you ask settler to build city and immediatly cancel request, next time it will offer you other name... It's bug, but I forgot about it

 

[choxorn]

@ThERat: I meant go in some other direction and hope that you run into the Americans/Spanish/Portugese before Dark Red finds you.

 

[TimBentley]

It could be Carthage if Russia is in the game or Japan if Aztecs or Celts are in the game. I'm guessing that's red's third city. If we manage to find somebody else before red finds us, they're not going to be very far either. Got it. I'll go with Smart's suggestion I think.

 

[TimBentley]

2590(0): There's Aztecs but no Russia, so it looks like our neighbor is Japan
Do some calculation and determine granary and rax would finish before WC, so switch Niagara to granary; I might change my mind though
I feel like Japan will be coming soon, so I won't go looking for another civ

IBT: Japanese warrior on mountain NW of Niagara Falls (switch back to rax)

2550(1): sell them alphabet for WC, 45g; declare war
No mountains or hills in our territory, so no IW. Masonry in 19 is only tech that will help soonish.
Japan's to the SE too?!

IBT: Good, the warrior fortified
Niagara rax->archer

2510(2): zzz

2470(3): zzz

2430(4): Niagara archer->archer

2390(5): zzz

IBT: Here they come; warrior on mountain moves in; a warrior comes from the north onto wines.

2350(6): zzz

IBT: Both move N of Niagara

2310(7): archer kills one

IBT: Barb moves in from SW. Because we didn't have enough to worry about apparently. Japanese warrior fortifies.
Grand River rax->archer
London builds Colossus

2270(8): archer dies attacking warrior, but takes off 1hp

IBT: warrior runs away
Niagara archer->archer

2230(9): archer promotes attacking warrior

IBT: barb warrior moves next to worker

2190(10): cover worker with warrior
I'll play one more turn to even it up

IBT: barb fortifies
2 Japanese warriors appear in east

2150(11): zzz

Notes: Not sure why Japan hasn't sent more units than they have. They start with 12 warriors; they currently have 7 cities.

 

[choxorn]

Tim, they have the militaristic trait- they start with 4 archers and 8 warriors, not 12 warriors.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

lurker's comment: Which leaves me wondering: will you pull a warrior scout or two before the end of the "barely surviving" part, or after sheer survival is no longer an issue?

 

[TimBentley]

Tim, they have the militaristic trait- they start with 4 archers and 8 warriors, not 12 warriors.

Japan starts with the wheel, not warrior code.