Small but decisive balance changes you'd like to see for R&F

[stealth_nsk]

The game-play goal is to give players who go tall more of an incentive to do so. If manning district buildings granted more GPP's than simply having the buildings empty, then that would give an added bonus for those who grow their cities. At the moment, there is no incentive to grow a city once you've maxed out the number of districts you plan to build.....which is dumb.

I'm not sure that's the gameplay goal. Gameplay goal is usually giving players meaningful strategic choices. I don't think we'd get more choices with that feature.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I'm not sure that's the gameplay goal. Gameplay goal is usually giving players meaningful strategic choices. I don't think we'd get more choices with that feature.

Well I do think that specialist need a better purpose for existing or they should be removed. Right now they're the Civ version of the appendix, only there because they were there in previous versions.

 

[Tomice]

And I'm guessing that just removing them would require a rebalancing of the whole tech tree. Eurekas do make researching faster, but I'm sure the team also made researching without eurekas slower. There is somewhat of an unspoken penalty researching without the eureka

This thread is about changes that won't change the design goals of the game much, because fundamental changes won't happen in the next 4 weeks.
But some small tweaks could, assuming we find things a large majority can agree on. I'm talking about stuff a talented modder could change in an afternoon (or less).

 

[SammyKhalifa]

"C"=center on active unit like it has in every other version of civ.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Biggest I can think of would be to nerf chopping to the ground. Currently it is too powerful. I rather have chopping to be something you do if you want to get a tile improvement, not the main way to get production. It just dominate the game how it is now and that is really wierd.

District cost algorithm just wierd and don't have any real purpose. A better way would have it increase with the number of districts you have built, especially of the specific type. To be honest they don't need to be all that expensive as long as district cap is well done which is currently is not.

Make growing cities more important. For example make the first district need 5-6 pop and maybe 4 citizens per district. The current way with empires having minimal cities don't feels right. Make citizens stronger and make citizens boost district and their buildings.

 

[Cymsdale]

Eureka just giving 25% would be nice. Science already moves too fast as it is.

 

[jokii]

And I'm guessing that just removing them would require a rebalancing of the whole tech tree. Eurekas do make researching faster, but I'm sure the team also made researching without eurekas slower. There is somewhat of an unspoken penalty researching without the eureka

If they could only make a change that eureka fills the first half of the line towards the research, instead of the second half. That would eliminate those dumbass tactics... ( half research the tech., and then start another )
I think that would make more sense, and it would make the game more dynamic and interesting.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

If they could only make a change that eureka fills the first half of the line towards the research, instead of the second half. That would eliminate those dumbass tactics... ( half research the tech., and then start another )
I think that would make more sense, and it would make the game more dynamic and interesting.

I'm actually fine with that. I would go through and balance the individual eurekas though (make some harder, some less strange)

 

[Ryika]

I think the main problem with Eurekas is that you can get almost all of them. They should be way more specialized, in a way that it's just not worth trying to get them if you're not playing a strategy that moves you into that direction anyway. At the moment, they're more of a check list than what they were designed to be.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I'm not sure that's the gameplay goal. Gameplay goal is usually giving players meaningful strategic choices. I don't think we'd get more choices with that feature.

I do, & I believe I am not the only one. The choice is simple, go wide & build more cities, with more districts+district buildings to get your GPP's, or do you build fewer, high population cities....& use that population to man your district buildings in order to get your GPP's that way. At the moment, only the former tactic is truly beneficial. Its a similar feature to Governors. Use your points to get lots of governors & cover more cities (wide) or use the points to get just 1 or 2 & heavily promote them (tall).

And I'm guessing that just removing them would require a rebalancing of the whole tech tree. Eurekas do make researching faster, but I'm sure the team also made researching without eurekas slower. There is somewhat of an unspoken penalty researching without the eureka

Some people have discussed the possibility of most of the Techs/Civics having more than one possible Eureka/Inspiration, & the game randomly picks which Eureka/Inspiration will.apply for this game. For example, Civil Service Requires a city with Population 10 to trigger....but what if, in some games, the trigger is getting the Printing Press Tech? Suddenly your gameplay choices are completely altered.

Or what if you sometimes needed to mine copper in order to trigger the Eureka for Bronze Working?

Maybe Astrology might require you to sometimes meet up with a Religious City State.

The point is that, from 1 game to the next, you won't know what the triggers will be until you check the Civics & Tech Trees.

I think the main problem with Eurekas is that you can get almost all of them. They should be way more specialized, in a way that it's just not worth trying to get them if you're not playing a strategy that moves you into that direction anyway. At the moment, they're more of a check list than what they were designed to be.

LOL, speak for yourself. I get maybe 40%-50% in most of my games.....though every so often I have truly lucked out.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

This thread is about changes that won't change the design goals of the game much, because fundamental changes won't happen in the next 4 weeks.
But some small tweaks could, assuming we find things a large majority can agree on. I'm talking about stuff a talented modder could change in an afternoon (or less).

By the way, I'm glad to read what you said about the theater district. I was starting to think that there was some big concept I was really missing, because they don't seem good at all unless you're doing CV

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

By the way, I'm glad to read what you said about the theater district. I was starting to think that there was some big concept I was really missing, because they don't seem good at all unless you're doing CV

Theatre squares will get +2 culture from being next to wonders in the expansion so that is a small buff to them. Also an indirect buff to having wonders.

 

[darkace77450]

Working district tiles would require quite significant game rebalance with additional citizens per city, plus more complex governor algorithms. Not impossible, but I don't see any clear gameplay goal behind...

They're already giving us the tools to make larger cities in R&F. The Audience Chamber (+4 housing and +1 amenity in every city with a governor), in particular, is a great way to grow your city populations quite large. Plop Magnus down in your capital (+20% growth in his city, +2 food to all trade routes ending in his city) and you're on your way to a tall empire.

Speaking of which, it would be great if they brought back all of the "theme bonuses" you got for putting the right combination of Great Works into Wonders

I'd welcome a return of theme-able wonders.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

They're already giving us the tools to make larger cities in R&F. The Audience Chamber (+4 housing and +1 amenity in every city with a governor), in particular, is a great way to grow your city populations quite large. Plop Magnus down in your capital (+20% growth in his city, +2 food to all trade routes ending in his city) and you're on your way to a tall empire.

The problem is not to make large cities, the problem is why you would invest into making large cities.

 

[bbbt]

===> Additional adjacency bonus for theater districts

They could move the +2 city center adjacency bonus that the acropolis gets to everyone (and then buff the acropolis some more). I'd also like to see cultural improvements give adjacency bonuses to the theater square, as that might be some interesting placement. I.e. a chateau or sphinx can give a standard +1 adjacency bonus, a great wall piece a minor one.

Chopping overflow "abuse" (debatable) results in crazy fast production.
===> Fix the overflow.

This seems straightforward - fix it so only the non-multiplied (and non-carryover) production portion overflows i.e.:

Finish a ship that had 60 prod left with 50 and a 100% card: nothing overflows
Finish a ship that had 40 prod left with 50 and a 100% card: 10 overflows

Coding-wise, it could just be adding a check on item completion to compare the base production with the amount that was left on the item.

Working district buildings needs to either provide double their current yield or provide an additional GPP per turn.

Double would be too strong imho for the first tier districts as it would led to people having say lots of just 'campus + library + specialist' cities (the opposite of boosting tall!). Wasn't it Civ 4 that ended up nerfing specialists out the gate because of a similar issue? From threads in the strategy forum here, the specialists can already contribute a lot more than people think (usually far outstripping the the adjacency bonuses for instance).

Adding them to the building output might be a good boost (so they get doubled by the policy cards when they come online) or having them tiered - i.e. 1st tier stays at +2, second tier +3, third tier +4, something like that.

My ideal world would be some sort of specialist 'adjacency' bonus where working specialists in a city gave boosts to other specialists in the city. I.e. working a tier 1 campus specialists gives say +.5 science output to all the other first tier specialists in the city if worked, etc. So it doesn't do much for smaller cities, but if you've got giant cities working tons of specialist slots, it ends up adding massively.

 

[Grumpbeard]

Some people have discussed the possibility of most of the Techs/Civics having more than one possible Eureka/Inspiration, & the game randomly picks which Eureka/Inspiration will.apply for this game. For example, Civil Service Requires a city with Population 10 to trigger....but what if, in some games, the trigger is getting the Printing Press Tech? Suddenly your gameplay choices are completely altered.

Or what if you sometimes needed to mine copper in order to trigger the Eureka for Bronze Working?

Maybe Astrology might require you to sometimes meet up with a Religious City State.

The point is that, from 1 game to the next, you won't know what the triggers will be until you check the Civics & Tech Trees.

There's a mod that does exactly this, and while some of the choices it has for what Eurekas are are... less than good (imho) it makes for much more interesting (varied) gameplay if you are a eureka-monger.

 

[Decimus1]

Id really like them to change that +2 builder charges policy. Its really annoying and tedious to just wait around and get those builders in batches with the policy. But instead give builders 2 extra charges permanently through advancement with some tech or civic. Or after a certain amount of workers created new ones get additional charge(s)

About the tall play. As some of you said, there isnt really any reason to go taller after you've built the main districts. An idea I was thinking about is to make pop increase in bonus science and culture and keep scaling. So for example an extra pop at 15 gives you 2 science, and so on. Instead of just the standard 0.7. This way you can enjoy putting effort into building a couple of mega cities

 

[iammaxhailme]

I'm tired of micromanaging my civic cards all the time. I kind of wish it was like Civ 5 where you pick permanent bonuses from the social policy trees. I'm sure they won't make a reversion from free choice to permanent choice though, so maybe make it so you have to pay to change the cards instead of every time you get a civic, or something.

 

[drubell]

Unit line rebalancing. I believe each class of unit should have 5 units at minimum (except for units that are only available later in the game, like air units, of course).

Massive UI overhaul: less clicks (most issues could be resolved by allowing players to sort through multiple cities, like Civ4 did, and also adding better waypointing for units), better UI for notifications and allowing for players to filter certain types of notifications through customization (the notification that someone is now suzerain of a civ shouldn't look the same as the one showing that someone is sending me a trade/alliance, and if you disagree, I should be able to customize that for myself), and clearer information (the civilopedia STILL doesn't define how to generate a Domestic Tourist)

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Unit line rebalancing. I believe each class of unit should have 5 units at minimum (except for units that are only available later in the game, like air units, of course).

Massive UI overhaul: less clicks (most issues could be resolved by allowing players to sort through multiple cities, like Civ4 did, and also adding better waypointing for units), better UI for notifications and allowing for players to filter certain types of notifications through customization (the notification that someone is now suzerain of a civ shouldn't look the same as the one showing that someone is sending me a trade/alliance, and if you disagree, I should be able to customize that for myself), and clearer information (the civilopedia STILL doesn't define how to generate a Domestic Tourist)

that's too many units. they go obsolete quick enough as it is