Small but decisive balance changes you'd like to see for R&F

The eureka system is still more creative than the set in stone tech orders in civ5 and especially civ4.

People wailing about getting them too easily might want to up the difficulty. A lot of them are situational, depending on whether you have a specific resource, and many are far harder on higher difficulties.

Make chopping lose the overflow if used for a different purpose.

Buff Great Library, it is useless now.

Techs and civics come too fast.
 
I think unit upgrading is way too strong in civ6, but its fun keeping the same unit throughout the game with crazy promotions...
Maybe instead of gold you have to commit production time from one of your cities to upgrade.

Also, the UI needs to show a unit's experience gain bonus (edit:%increase from barracks etc)
 
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Also, the UI needs to show a unit's experience gain bonus

There's that little XP bar at the bottom when you click the unit, no? Or are you saying that the UI should show how much XP a unit would receive before attacking it?
 
I think unit upgrading is way too strong in civ6, but its fun keeping the same unit throughout the game with crazy promotions...
Maybe instead of gold you have to commit production time from one of your cities to upgrade.

Production is already the #1 bottleneck in the game. If I had to rebuild my army every other era I'd never get anything done.
 
Some people have discussed the possibility of most of the Techs/Civics having more than one possible Eureka/Inspiration, & the game randomly picks which Eureka/Inspiration will.apply for this game. For example, Civil Service Requires a city with Population 10 to trigger....but what if, in some games, the trigger is getting the Printing Press Tech? Suddenly your gameplay choices are completely altered.

Or what if you sometimes needed to mine copper in order to trigger the Eureka for Bronze Working?

Maybe Astrology might require you to sometimes meet up with a Religious City State.

The point is that, from 1 game to the next, you won't know what the triggers will be until you check the Civics & Tech Trees.

I'd rather see them occur due to other civs' actions/research, in an effort to improve balance. For example, if you have met a civ that has researched Steel, you get a 80% or 90% boost to Gunpowder. Or if you have a unit damaged by a knight, you get a boost towards Castles. This way no civs are falling too far behind.

As for the randomness factor, which I like the idea of, I think a small % chance upon completing research for getting a unique benefit would be cool - for example, researching Steel and bamf! you get +1 range in your battleships (2% chance, 1 of 4 possible buffs).

Even nastier would be if random techs were greyed out and had additional prerequisites before you could even start researching them, forcing different paths every game.
 
I'd rather see them occur due to other civs' actions/research, in an effort to improve balance. For example, if you have met a civ that has researched Steel, you get a 80% or 90% boost to Gunpowder. Or if you have a unit damaged by a knight, you get a boost towards Castles. This way no civs are falling too far behind.

As for the randomness factor, which I like the idea of, I think a small % chance upon completing research for getting a unique benefit would be cool - for example, researching Steel and bamf! you get +1 range in your battleships (2% chance, 1 of 4 possible buffs).

Even nastier would be if random techs were greyed out and had additional prerequisites before you could even start researching them, forcing different paths every game.

It's why I kind of liked the "Random Tech research" from back in SMAC (which was really more directed than totally random), but I don't think that would ever fly with modern gamers.
 
Make default city strength much lower, but have it go up when a unit is garrisoned. Remove the city ranged attack. Have city strength match the strength of its garrisoned unit. These changes will make it much easier for the AI to threaten the player.

Give theaters more adjacency bonuses, being next to natural wonders should give them more culture.
 
1. A balance pass for pantheons / beliefs. The best pantheons are, unsurprisingly, always the best ones. I get that because many of them are resource-based it's difficult to balance them since many of them are situationally powerful, but the strongest ones that don't have conditional terrain/resource requirements could be toned down a bit. Ideally the nonconditionals would be reliable if you don't have many of any one resource/terrain, but at the moment unless you have obscene amounts of luxuries or some other resource the respective pantheons are lackluster.
Personally, I don't think there should be pantheons that fail to provide anything after the classical era. Not unless they all peter out in some fashion. For instance, giving bonus GP points to campuses, theaters, and holy sites is certainly very useful for the entirety of the game (and the AI doesn't even like to take it). Maybe you should only get the bonus GP points until you actually have one of the respective GP's.

2. Harder Eurekas/Inspirations. As many have said, they're a bit too easy to obtain through normal play. They could be strengthened to compensate, but they should not be easy enough to obtain as a side-project while focusing something else; rather, they should be something along the way of whatever you're already focusing. Founding a coastal city for sailing is a good one; you might not aim for that Eureka unless you already want a coastal city or are planning one in the near future.
I think this sentiment (that has been expressed multiple times in this thread) kinda misses the mark with boosting techs and civics. Civ is not really a game where players all branch off into their own areas of research, and one guy goes researches economics while another pursues education while yet another guy goes after cavalry and siege technologies. Civ is, to a large extent, a game where the rule of thumb is that everyone generally does everything. You mention the Sailing boost for coastal cities. That's notable specifically because the marine technologies are the main exception to that rule. So, making boosts harder to come by is not going to make players more focused. Having research trees that branch off rather than all ultimately lead down the same path is what the game, and that's beyond the scope of small, quality-of-life improvements.

3. Related to above, slower science overall. Even the AI on prince is reaching the modern era hundreds of years early--alternatively, if the science rate is too drastic to change, just adjust the pace of the in-game years. I can accept faster science to speed up gameplay, but the year counter should at least match up roughly with tech eras at lower levels of play; it's simple, but helps a lot with flavor and immersion.
I think the way to look at this is that there's a pacing problem between research and production. You unlock three or four techs in the time it takes to build a district or just some walls. I get my encampment ready so I can bang out some swordsmen, and by the time I'm done I'm almost at musketmen. It's nuts, for sure.

4. Chopping nerf. I personally have never chopped woods for production in any game of Civ VI, but I don't want the feature to go away because it makes sense from a historical perspective. Gameplay-wise though, it's currently incredibly strong and only looks to be getting stronger in VI with the governor that boosts it. It could use some tweaking.
Again, to my mind it's a production problem. If forests and/or lumber mills generated an extra +1 production, the decision to chop them would be a lot more painful.

5. District adjustments. CHs and Harbors were at least looked at already, but Theater Squares could use some touching up as well; they do fine for holding Great Works but a bit more leniency with adjacency bonuses would make them more viable early game. More variability in district choice is nice for gameplay, and flavorwise once your discover Drama and Poetry and the like it does make sense that you'd at least have a few TSs. IZs could be boosted a hair too, but overall they're alright in the later game.
Yeah, theater districts should at least get +2 from adjacent wonders. Maybe +1 from entertainment complexes (or, conversely, have entertainment centers get an extra amenity from an adjacent cultural center. It can't just be odd to me that great works and tourism are not linked to entertainment amenities in any way.

6. Trade routes giving something to the receiving city. It doesn't have to be huge, but at the moment making your cities ideal for trade routes isn't very rewarding. You get roads to travel on and traders to pillage, but even then those same roads could be used to go into your city. There's also the fact that other civs are somewhat economically reliant on you if you're a main trade destination, but that's an indirect bonus that doesn't feel like much during actual gameplay. Even something superficial like a bit of gold at least presents something tangible to say "this city is the heart of trade".
Trade routes still feel like a tacked-on element in Civ VI, as they actually were in V. In fact, they seem even moreso, since they now lack reciprocity. To my mind, if there's no link between trade routes and the trading of resources between civ's, you have mismatched systems. It's a silk road without silk. Anyway, I expect the revamped alliances to build out trade routes, probably as one of the early bennies.[/quote]
8. The ability to ask an ally to declare war once you've been declared war on. Seriously, I'm not sure how this isn't already an option. This might be the military alliance in RnF, hopefully.
+1!
 
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There's that little XP bar at the bottom when you click the unit, no? Or are you saying that the UI should show how much XP a unit would receive before attacking it?

You can see a unit's accumulated xp, but there's currently no way to check whether it has a bonus to xp generation from encampment/harbor buildings, which I I think is what Shorlin was referring to.
 
So, in regards to my previous post, here's my though on how to mitigate the chop-fest:

Forests can be either light or dense. A forest is, by default, a light forest. It becomes dense if there are two or more forests adjacent to it, giving it an extra +1 production. A saw mill in a dense forest also gets another +1 production (this could go with some post-industrial tech or civic). Light forests chop for a little less than they do now, maybe 10 hammers.

So, instead of outright nerfing chops, players get an incentive to view their forests as the production assets they should be.
 
  • Nerf wall-less city strength
Cities without walls should have lower combat strength than melee units of the current era, increasing the importance of garrisoned units while also allowing the AI to take cities easier. Siege towers will now have a more decisive role in sieges without a garrison. A newly settled unguarded city should take a single current Era unit only a few turns to take.
  • Religion and loyalty
Religious pressure also exudes loyalty on free cities. This also works if you have a majority religion that you did not found. This gives more weight and depth to the religious game as well as a buff to spain's conquistadors. There could even be an enhancer belief that decreases foreign influence in their cities. Empires with many different beliefs will have a tougher time keeping them loyal (except for hopefully the ottomans)
  • Tourism increases diplomatic visibility
Having tourists from a certain civ can boost your visibility with them up two levels at the most. Since visibility now increases combat strength, it's a good way to buff culture focused empires and give a reason for warmongers to play with the mechanic
 
I'd love to discuss various balance changes that I feel should be implemented. Is there no official thread for this? Is this the right place? :)

I feel at least 30% of the policies should be buffed. Take for example Military Science..

It gives you +1 science for each Military Academy and Seaport. As it is, it'll never be picked. If it were +3 science instead, it'd be viable now and then. At +4 it would be a strong pick for when you're not at war, but you'd still not pick it if you were fighting, as you'd need the military policy.

My suggestion is to make it at least +3, and maybe even 4 or 5.

Another useless policy is the one that gives you gold when you kill more primitive units. 50% of the combat strength is useless and does not impact the game whatsoever. So you take out a horseman with your rifleman. Here's 16 gold. What? If it was 300% it might actually be something fun playing with.

I agree with the recommendation of slowing down science progression. If research was 50% slower (by which i mean twice as slow) it would give us much more gameplay in each era (since we'll have time to actually produce the units and buildings) and would make culture count more.

I've never understood why the designers thought it was a good idea for researching a new tech to take 5-6 turns. I'd love it if it always took at least 12, and sometimes 15-20, as that would accentuate the strategical decisions involved.

Dominion victory should also be nerfed, as there is no penalty whatsoever to the player who takes out say, 2 of neighbors and amasses a wide empire. I'd imagine significant penalties to all yields from war weariness and the forceful acquisition of population. There is no such mechanic though. Once you take out your neighbours, you've basically won a multi game.

Edit: My favourite Civ France needs a boost. The game is pretty much over usually, when their bonuses start to come into play. The only thing they get early game is perhaps a better than average starting location..
 
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Stop the spamming of ziggurats and other unique improvements by not allowing them to be built next to each other.
 
Remove district cost scaling based on era.

Make late game buildings cheaper in general. A lot of times I never even build research labs because they're so expensive and I could run projects instead. Same goes for crap like broadcast towers, power plants, and stock exchanges.

Same goes for units Renaissance and beyond. When the prevailing strategy is to build a bunch of ancient units as the entire army you will already need and upgrade, you may wonder why building units later on is even a thing. Upgrading units should also be more expensive.

Commercial hub buildings should have more utility.

Buff lumber mills, nerf chopping!
 
Have a wonders tab where you can see which have already been built, who built them, and where, and also keep a running tab on when another civ starts construction. Of course, this all assumes the information is actually known.
 
I really like the Eureka mechanic. It makes Civ VI much less linear than its predecessors where you'd always go the optimal route down the tech three. For that reason I wouldn't want to see Eurekas/Inspirations only giving a boost up to the first 50%, because it'd make them much less important, which would in turn make games more samey. I think the suggestion to have two different Eurekas/Inspirations for each tech/civic, that are chosen randomly at the start of the game, is a great idea. It builds on the strength of the Eureka mechanic by adding even more variation to the game without reducing their importance. I wouldn't say it falls under the category of a 'small change' though.
 
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