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Small but decisive balance changes you'd like to see for R&F

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Tomice, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. Nikae

    Nikae Chieftain

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    The eureka system is still more creative than the set in stone tech orders in civ5 and especially civ4.

    People wailing about getting them too easily might want to up the difficulty. A lot of them are situational, depending on whether you have a specific resource, and many are far harder on higher difficulties.

    Make chopping lose the overflow if used for a different purpose.

    Buff Great Library, it is useless now.

    Techs and civics come too fast.
     
    mrwho likes this.
  2. Shorlin

    Shorlin Chieftain

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    I think unit upgrading is way too strong in civ6, but its fun keeping the same unit throughout the game with crazy promotions...
    Maybe instead of gold you have to commit production time from one of your cities to upgrade.

    Also, the UI needs to show a unit's experience gain bonus (edit:%increase from barracks etc)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  3. drubell

    drubell Chieftain

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    There's that little XP bar at the bottom when you click the unit, no? Or are you saying that the UI should show how much XP a unit would receive before attacking it?
     
  4. darkace77450

    darkace77450 Chieftain

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    Production is already the #1 bottleneck in the game. If I had to rebuild my army every other era I'd never get anything done.
     
  5. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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    I'd rather see them occur due to other civs' actions/research, in an effort to improve balance. For example, if you have met a civ that has researched Steel, you get a 80% or 90% boost to Gunpowder. Or if you have a unit damaged by a knight, you get a boost towards Castles. This way no civs are falling too far behind.

    As for the randomness factor, which I like the idea of, I think a small % chance upon completing research for getting a unique benefit would be cool - for example, researching Steel and bamf! you get +1 range in your battleships (2% chance, 1 of 4 possible buffs).

    Even nastier would be if random techs were greyed out and had additional prerequisites before you could even start researching them, forcing different paths every game.
     
    ChocolateShake likes this.
  6. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

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    It's why I kind of liked the "Random Tech research" from back in SMAC (which was really more directed than totally random), but I don't think that would ever fly with modern gamers.
     
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  7. ChocolateShake

    ChocolateShake Chieftain

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    Make default city strength much lower, but have it go up when a unit is garrisoned. Remove the city ranged attack. Have city strength match the strength of its garrisoned unit. These changes will make it much easier for the AI to threaten the player.

    Give theaters more adjacency bonuses, being next to natural wonders should give them more culture.
     
  8. darkace77450

    darkace77450 Chieftain

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    Agreed. I imagine a writer/artist looking out his studio window at Mt Kilimanjaro would be inspired by the wonder's majesty every bit as much as religious leaders are.
     
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  9. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    Hire @sukritact and integrate his UI mod into the base game.
     
  10. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    It have +2 culture per adjacent built wonder in the expansion.

    So with careful wonder placement you can get alot of culture just from adjacency bonuses.
     
    steveg700 likes this.
  11. steveg700

    steveg700 Chieftain

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    Personally, I don't think there should be pantheons that fail to provide anything after the classical era. Not unless they all peter out in some fashion. For instance, giving bonus GP points to campuses, theaters, and holy sites is certainly very useful for the entirety of the game (and the AI doesn't even like to take it). Maybe you should only get the bonus GP points until you actually have one of the respective GP's.

    I think this sentiment (that has been expressed multiple times in this thread) kinda misses the mark with boosting techs and civics. Civ is not really a game where players all branch off into their own areas of research, and one guy goes researches economics while another pursues education while yet another guy goes after cavalry and siege technologies. Civ is, to a large extent, a game where the rule of thumb is that everyone generally does everything. You mention the Sailing boost for coastal cities. That's notable specifically because the marine technologies are the main exception to that rule. So, making boosts harder to come by is not going to make players more focused. Having research trees that branch off rather than all ultimately lead down the same path is what the game, and that's beyond the scope of small, quality-of-life improvements.

    I think the way to look at this is that there's a pacing problem between research and production. You unlock three or four techs in the time it takes to build a district or just some walls. I get my encampment ready so I can bang out some swordsmen, and by the time I'm done I'm almost at musketmen. It's nuts, for sure.

    Again, to my mind it's a production problem. If forests and/or lumber mills generated an extra +1 production, the decision to chop them would be a lot more painful.

    Yeah, theater districts should at least get +2 from adjacent wonders. Maybe +1 from entertainment complexes (or, conversely, have entertainment centers get an extra amenity from an adjacent cultural center. It can't just be odd to me that great works and tourism are not linked to entertainment amenities in any way.

    Trade routes still feel like a tacked-on element in Civ VI, as they actually were in V. In fact, they seem even moreso, since they now lack reciprocity. To my mind, if there's no link between trade routes and the trading of resources between civ's, you have mismatched systems. It's a silk road without silk. Anyway, I expect the revamped alliances to build out trade routes, probably as one of the early bennies.[/quote]
    +1!
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    mrwho likes this.
  12. Amrunril

    Amrunril Chieftain

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    You can see a unit's accumulated xp, but there's currently no way to check whether it has a bonus to xp generation from encampment/harbor buildings, which I I think is what Shorlin was referring to.
     
  13. steveg700

    steveg700 Chieftain

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    So, in regards to my previous post, here's my though on how to mitigate the chop-fest:

    Forests can be either light or dense. A forest is, by default, a light forest. It becomes dense if there are two or more forests adjacent to it, giving it an extra +1 production. A saw mill in a dense forest also gets another +1 production (this could go with some post-industrial tech or civic). Light forests chop for a little less than they do now, maybe 10 hammers.

    So, instead of outright nerfing chops, players get an incentive to view their forests as the production assets they should be.
     
  14. MACKA0ili

    MACKA0ili Chieftain

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    • Nerf wall-less city strength
    Cities without walls should have lower combat strength than melee units of the current era, increasing the importance of garrisoned units while also allowing the AI to take cities easier. Siege towers will now have a more decisive role in sieges without a garrison. A newly settled unguarded city should take a single current Era unit only a few turns to take.
    • Religion and loyalty
    Religious pressure also exudes loyalty on free cities. This also works if you have a majority religion that you did not found. This gives more weight and depth to the religious game as well as a buff to spain's conquistadors. There could even be an enhancer belief that decreases foreign influence in their cities. Empires with many different beliefs will have a tougher time keeping them loyal (except for hopefully the ottomans)
    • Tourism increases diplomatic visibility
    Having tourists from a certain civ can boost your visibility with them up two levels at the most. Since visibility now increases combat strength, it's a good way to buff culture focused empires and give a reason for warmongers to play with the mechanic
     
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  15. KingsGambit7

    KingsGambit7 Chieftain

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    I'd love to discuss various balance changes that I feel should be implemented. Is there no official thread for this? Is this the right place? :)

    I feel at least 30% of the policies should be buffed. Take for example Military Science..

    It gives you +1 science for each Military Academy and Seaport. As it is, it'll never be picked. If it were +3 science instead, it'd be viable now and then. At +4 it would be a strong pick for when you're not at war, but you'd still not pick it if you were fighting, as you'd need the military policy.

    My suggestion is to make it at least +3, and maybe even 4 or 5.

    Another useless policy is the one that gives you gold when you kill more primitive units. 50% of the combat strength is useless and does not impact the game whatsoever. So you take out a horseman with your rifleman. Here's 16 gold. What? If it was 300% it might actually be something fun playing with.

    I agree with the recommendation of slowing down science progression. If research was 50% slower (by which i mean twice as slow) it would give us much more gameplay in each era (since we'll have time to actually produce the units and buildings) and would make culture count more.

    I've never understood why the designers thought it was a good idea for researching a new tech to take 5-6 turns. I'd love it if it always took at least 12, and sometimes 15-20, as that would accentuate the strategical decisions involved.

    Dominion victory should also be nerfed, as there is no penalty whatsoever to the player who takes out say, 2 of neighbors and amasses a wide empire. I'd imagine significant penalties to all yields from war weariness and the forceful acquisition of population. There is no such mechanic though. Once you take out your neighbours, you've basically won a multi game.

    Edit: My favourite Civ France needs a boost. The game is pretty much over usually, when their bonuses start to come into play. The only thing they get early game is perhaps a better than average starting location..
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  16. steveg700

    steveg700 Chieftain

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    Stop the spamming of ziggurats and other unique improvements by not allowing them to be built next to each other.
     
  17. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Remove district cost scaling based on era.

    Make late game buildings cheaper in general. A lot of times I never even build research labs because they're so expensive and I could run projects instead. Same goes for crap like broadcast towers, power plants, and stock exchanges.

    Same goes for units Renaissance and beyond. When the prevailing strategy is to build a bunch of ancient units as the entire army you will already need and upgrade, you may wonder why building units later on is even a thing. Upgrading units should also be more expensive.

    Commercial hub buildings should have more utility.

    Buff lumber mills, nerf chopping!
     
  18. steveg700

    steveg700 Chieftain

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    Have a wonders tab where you can see which have already been built, who built them, and where, and also keep a running tab on when another civ starts construction. Of course, this all assumes the information is actually known.
     
  19. steveg700

    steveg700 Chieftain

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    Make one change to China's Great Wall improvement: barbarians cannot enter a tile with the wall. Then it actually serves some defensive purpose.
     
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  20. mrwho

    mrwho Chieftain

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    I really like the Eureka mechanic. It makes Civ VI much less linear than its predecessors where you'd always go the optimal route down the tech three. For that reason I wouldn't want to see Eurekas/Inspirations only giving a boost up to the first 50%, because it'd make them much less important, which would in turn make games more samey. I think the suggestion to have two different Eurekas/Inspirations for each tech/civic, that are chosen randomly at the start of the game, is a great idea. It builds on the strength of the Eureka mechanic by adding even more variation to the game without reducing their importance. I wouldn't say it falls under the category of a 'small change' though.
     

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