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Small things you hope will be in game

Discussion in 'Humankind by Amplitude' started by Krajzen, Jul 12, 2020.

  1. Catoninetales_Amplitude

    Catoninetales_Amplitude Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2019
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    I can already tell you that you won't have to worry about points 1 to 3, because we're not planning unit customization, nor do administrators and generals have skills or equipment (at least not in the release version of the game. Who knows what might come later...)
    Combat will still have an option to automate it, though playing manually is a bit more hands-on than in Legend due to having direct control instead of an "orders phase - execution phase" separation of the turn. I find the combat system to be clearer than it was in Legend (and much clearer than it was in ES2... As much as I agree with the goals of that system, I personally have many gripes with the execution and explanation.)
    However, I have to disappoint you on point 6: No, we will not be dropping the FIDS color coding of (mostly) single-purpose buildings, because said color coding of the artwork is an accessibility feature. New players should be able to easily tell what a building is for (in general) without having to read an entire tooltip worth of information. Some of the Emblematic Quarters offer more "split benefits," though, like the Babylonian Astronomy House providing food from Researchers.

    As far as I recall, we have several city styles in the Contemporary Era, but not a unique one for each Culture.
     
    j51, Elhoim, conorbebe and 2 others like this.
  2. aguaacrobata2

    aguaacrobata2 Chieftain

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    Jun 19, 2019
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    Location:
    La Plata, Argentina
    I have never played ES or EL before so I don't know exactly what you are talking about but identification by colours seems to be somewhat important during battles. Please remember about the existence of color blind players. Tropico 5 did, and there was an option in the menu that adapted some parts of the user interface to color blind players. Tropico 6 (and most of the games I play) did not (as long as I played it, I don't know if they eventually changed that) and it was terrible for the color blind player experience.
     
  3. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

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    Jun 29, 2007
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    Thanks for the clarification, I'm happy if there's is at least a graphical set for cultural groups. I can understand how it can be difficult to differentiate modern architecture, but anything that helps in telling cultures apart in the modern era helps a lot for immersion.
     
    conorbebe and Elhoim like this.
  4. grug

    grug Chieftain

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    Mar 20, 2020
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    I hope that fish and whales will be moving resources, the same way elk and mammoth are in the Neolithic Era of the game.

    Also hope that naval and air warfare will have some unique mechanics. Maybe there could be storms that damage ships, cloud cover that disrupts bombers, or paratroopers that could fly over enemy lines. Having some kind of black ops or proxy war mechanic in the late Contemporary Era could be cool too.
     
    ost, mitsho and Siptah like this.
  5. Shadowhal

    Shadowhal Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
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    219
    Wow, that was indeed a comprehensive and insightful post. Lost of interesting stuff here.

    Definitely yes to internal challenges. The standard for me is the Revolutions mod from Civ IV where you really had to watch your stability meter. Revolutions could and did occur and having a third of your empire break away mid-way to form an independent nation just changed things up so much. Or pushing a staggering opponent over the cliff ...

    Definitely yes to Old World style mouse overs.

    In a similar vein, an in-game encyclopedia will be nice. I think this has been confirmed and will be a welcome additions from their previous games.

    Yes also to terra map/scripts.

    Yes also to reducing micro-management late game. The frequency and importance of decisions just scales so poorly in 4X games, almost by virtue of a game sessions life cycle. I agree with your comments on unit with equipment and funnily enough also with heros, as I had only unconsciously disliked it. Cat assuaged any concerns on that front.

    As regards improvements ... well, Amplitude's solution seems to be the ability to merge cities together late game, so you will only have a handful of build queues to manage despite having a dozen (or several dozens) of cities sitting underneath that. There are also "unadministered" cities which you cannot direct to build units (though I think you can still specify buildings/quarters).

    Another approach could be smart governors/intelligent delegation. Most often, when a 4X game has governors, you get the option to assign one priority and that's it. Sometimes that affects build queues, sometimes just the way your "workers" are assigned to resource tiles/professions. I would love a dev to experiment with more granular forms of delegation and transparency. For instance, assign military and production to high priority, gold and science to medium priority, and influence, religion, food and the rest to low priority. And then build and pop assignment follow that. And transparency what these priorities do. For instance, in AoW:p you can assign priorities to the production fields. That allocates ALL available pops to that category, and evenly among all selected priorities. Clear enough, if somewhat limiting, but that's not the only way a priority could be interpreted.

    On the improvements themselves ... I felt that in EL the decision on which improvements to build happened one step earlier, in what you chose to research. If you wanted to improve industry in era 2, you had the option between an improvement whose benefits are dependent on nearby forests, one which was dependent on nearby rivers, and one generalist. I think having different choices how to upgrade a given resource is nice. Not sure I liked the research bit as much, but it certainly forced tough choices which is good. Another approach could have been to limit the number of buildings. For instance, you only have x building slots (per tier/quarter?). So chose which ones are of most value based on what you need to achieve, what works best with the terrain available and between improvements now and stronger versions from future techs. Of course, the more complex this becomes, the trickier to combine with smart delegation, automation and reduced micromanagement. None of this probably falls under "small things" given how it strikes at the core of 4Xs.


    So, in the spirit of small things - maybe ideology-driven civ/culture flavour texts? I like how in Rhys and Fall and some other mods you'd face not just America, but the Union of Socialist American Republics (Ok, I made that one up), or the Islamic Kingdom of Spain etc.

    Oh, and other thing, I have kind of a thing wanting to know how a session lasted. If there were a way to track that, it would be neat. Civ IV and Fallen Enchantress have it.

    Did someone mention good mod support? That would be ace too. Judging be Amplitude's previous games, I think they will do what they can to make changes possible.

    I know that diplomacy is still to be revealed, but I'd like to make a pitch on the interface side. I think some version of the two attached screenshots should be included (in any 4X game with diplomacy for that matter). A quick overview who is allied and at war with whom. And ideally a glance who likes/hates who to get some advance guidance of potential changes.

    Maybe something special upon winning the game? Nothing fancy, since we wouldn't want to sink resources in that could be used elsewhere. Maybe use the accumulated fame to pick a handful of top achievements and have a "best of" reel from your game session. Think of a combination of the civ-like time laps map painter combined with the era score view.
     

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  6. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Emperor

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    Thank you so much for reading this and taking the time to respond to each one. I understand the accessibility issue. I think the more that a certain building has a secondary effect (one that makes sense given the building, and one that is significant and impactful) in addition to +X of the FIDS resource, I think that could go a long way (and it already seems like that's happening).
     
  7. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Emperor

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    Yes x100! I had forgotten that sometimes EL forced you to choose one building for another. This is an excellent feature so that I don't just mindlessly click the building color that has more of the FIDS I need. Anything forcing you to make choices at the expense of another is very good.

    I also agree x10000 with limiting the number of buildings. They do this in Stellaris which I like. They also do this in GalCiv3 in an extreme way and in a way that i very much like b/c you cannot possibly fit all your buildings on a planet (this is literally the only thing I like about GalCiv3 lol).

    And thanks for articulating the issue better than I did -- the issue of scaling in 4x games. You are right that this is a problem in every single 4x game, where consequential decisions early on have such negligible impact later. Automated AI is, of course, a bandaid to this problem but what is better is the introduction of later choices that are harder and more impactful like you suggest. Civ VI fails at this b/c the victory conditions are hardly mutually exclusive and you can pursue all at the same time and i cannot think of a consequential decision late game other than declaring war. Total War 3K also fails at this as do most games. And I had no idea there was a Revolutions mod, which sounds amazing. However I'm such a purist i never play mods, but would like to rethink that.

    Old World has done a decent job of this or at least made a good start. In Old World there are random events that can cause wild swings in family opinion or other AI civs' opinion that can all but force you into a war. The Ambitions *sort of* do this because in the late game, achieving a challenging ambition means neglecting other important things, and has a significant impact on other things. Any choice that can potentially wildly change the trajectory of your late game would be greatly welcome.
     
  8. Shadowhal

    Shadowhal Warlord

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    Yes, both Old World and Humankind try some clever things to overcome some of 4X's traditional pitfalls. I look forward to seeing how both games turn out. I also have a few more radical and potentially unworkable thoughts in that space, but that's better reserved for another thread.

    As for mods ... I can only recommend trying them. They can make a world of difference and oddly enough I find myself playing fairly few strategy games in vanilla mode. The ones I mentioned are:
    Revolution for Civ IV BTS: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/revolutiondcm-for-bts.262937/. This is the revolution mechanic with a few other components thrown in like starting as a minor civ (no diplomacy until writing) and that barbarians can evolve into new civs mid-game.
    This other mod pack adds a select few additional units, buildings, techs, civs, and further new mechanic as well as some balance tweaks: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/main-download-and-information.325253/.
    There is also a Revolutions mod for Civ V: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/revolutions.456860/. I can't say as much about it, as I have played it less, but Gedemon struck me as a very talented modder, so I'd suspect it's solid.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Lots of options for different tastes.


    So yeah, giving an engaged community powerful tools to play with can yield some pretty crazy results :)
     

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