SMAN's The World at War

[sman1975]

Thanks, @jeriko one, these are good. Quite good. The only thing I need to add to the discussion is that most of the civs in the "civ-appropriate" name tables have about 50+ carrier names available, 75+ melee and ranged names each, and about 50+ sub names for nations that don't use sequence numbers. For GGs and GAs, the numbers are usually in the 75+ names for each.

The reason there are so many names is that the namer script picks a random name from the table when it needs a ship name. It attempts this 25 times, just in case the potential name is already in use. After the 25time, I think it just picks a random name from a very large (250+ names) random ship name table (which is a sampling of all the ship names for all the civs). The more ship names available to the civ, the better chance we'll find a name appropriate for that civ, and not a random name that could introduce something ahistorical, like "Seddülbahir" for a Greek ship.

The reason I use random names, instead of simply picking the first available name, is that in test games, most civs would have about 10-20 units of any given ship type. In game after game, it was always the same ship 10+ names, with 50-100 to pick from. Didn't provide any of the variety I was looking for, especially for civs like England or America, who have a large number of historical ship names you wouldn't mind seeing. I can rewrite this approach, but it usually works quite well.

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Your point about using some kind of heuristic to determine a name I believe is almost inspired. Here's what I've gleaned from the post about how to approach:

- Carriers: famous battles against non-Greeks (with such a long history, this seems like it should be easy enough)
- Melee: Have 27 from the previous post already, need about double that, triple would be even better (both ironclads and destroyers are naval melee type units, so they'll use the same table of names)
- Ranged: Greek Islands and bays (definitely enough - can even use many of those nice places where I honeymooned in western Kreta, near Kolymbari)
- Subs: Greek fish names (probably enough out there somewhere) - just not sure if I should use just any old fish name, or try to focus on "mean" fish. Also, should I limit species to those in the Med, or is further seas OK?

I'll look through some links and use every single Greek ship name I can find, and after that use names that conform with the heuristics above. Will probably post them here before adding to the mods (Main WAW, WW1 and WW2 scenarios.

Lots going on in the next couple of days, but I'll try to post a list of potential names by then. Really appreciate your looking them over so that nothing "unfortunate" makes it in the final list. Hopefully, @Giannoulis97 will be able to review the lists as well, just to make sure the "sound" right.

S' efharistó!


EDIT: Am making good progress so far. Have all the GG's I need, and almost all the melee and ranged ship names I need. Haven't started carriers of subs yet, but may get to those this afternoon. Am, ironically, meeting up with my family to celebrate a birthday of my niece. She chose a nice GREEK restaurant for some reason. Seems appropriate right now for some reason...

Anyways, with a bit of luck, I'll post the lists of names sometime late today for review.

 

[sman1975]

Potential Melee Ship Names (112):


Helle, Aetos, Ierax, Leon, Panthir, Keravnos, Nea Genea, Nafkratousa, Thyella, Lonchi, Sfendoni, Aspis, Niki, Velos, Doxa, Adrias, Miaoulis, Pindos, Kanaris, Astings, Themistoklis, Kriti, Aigaion, Apostolis, Navarinon, Kriezis, Sachtouris, Tombazis, Karteria, Formion, Kimon, Nearchos, Ermis, Evros, Agon, Eleftheria, Triton, Hermes, Thetis, Prometheus, Atlas, Heracles, Axios, Aliakmon, Zeus, Ouranos, Hyperion, Orion, Kalliroe, Trichonis, Doirani, Kerkini, Prespa, Stymphalia, Pandrosos, Andromeda, Kyknos, Pegasus, Toxotis, Diopos Antoniou, Kelevstis, Stamou, Evropi, Kallisto, Evniki, Kalypso, Arachthos, Evrotas, Nestos, Nautilus, Pytheas, Strabon, Akatos, Karavogiannos, Lykoudis, Velos, Aias, Gigas, Danaos, Iason, Minos, Nestor, Pelias, Persefs, Adamastos, Atrefs, Atromitos, Achilles, Diomidis, Odysses, Thiseus, Alkyoni , Aigli, Arethousa, Dafni, Doris, Nikopolis, Tatoi, Esperos, Lailaps, Kataigis, Kentavros, Kyklon, Skorpios, Typhon, Kydoniai, Kios, Kyzikos, Panormos, Pergamos, Proussa

 

[sman1975]

Potential Ranged Ship Names (128):


Kilkis, Lemnos, Salamis, Georgios Averof, Vasiliefs Konstantinos, Hydra, Spetsai, Psara, Elli, Navarchos Miaoulis, Adrias, Kountouriotis, Nikiforos Fokas, Emmanouil, Vasilefs Georgios, Vasilissa Olga, Bouboulina, Ipiros, Makedonia, Thraki, Amalia, Kostakos, Anninos, Navsithoi, Arliotis, Batsis, Konidis, Kymothoi, Sakipis, Tournas, Vlahavas, Roussen, Daniolos, Krystallidis, Grigoropoulos, Ritsos, Karathanasis, Vlahakos, Laskos, Blessas, Mykonios, Troupakis, Kavaloudis, Degiannis, Xenos, Simitzopoulos, Starakis, Votsis, Pezopoulos, Maridakis, Armatolos, Navmachos, Kasos, Polemistis, Machitis, Nikiphoros, Aittitos, Krataios, Tolmi, Ormi, Chios, Samos, Ikaria, Lesvos, Rodos, Cephalonia, Ithaca, Kerkyra, Zakynthos, Syros, Kos, Korinthia, Evia, Kefallinia, Naxos, Thassos, Andros, Karpathos, Kythira, Skyros, Paros, Tinos, Samothrace, Tzia, Keos, Amorgos, Kalymnos, Ios, Kythnos, Astypalaia, Aegina, Agistri, Dokos, Poros, Salamina, Spetses, Paxi, Lefkada, Kefalonia, Kastellorizo, Leros, Nisyros, Patmos, Rhodos, Symi, Tilos, Pasas, Oinousses, Antipsara, Samiopoula, Thymaina, Antiparos, Donoussa, Folegandros, Gyaros, Iraklia, Keros, Kimolos, Koufonisia, Makronissos, Mykonos, Polyaigos, Santorini, Thera, Schoinoussa, Sifnos, Sikinos, Therasia

 

[sman1975]

Potential GG Names (160):


Alexakis, Anagnostopoulos, Angelis, Arbouzis, Bakopoulos , Bakos , Balkos, Botsaris, Charalambis, Chasapidis, Christodoulou, Church, Damianos, Danglis, Davos, Delagrammatikas, Demestichas , Dialetis, Digenis, Doumpiotis, Dousmanis, Douvas, Dovas, Drakos, Drossoyannis, Exadaktylos, Florakis, Floros, Frangos, Frangou, Frontistis, Gargalidis, Gennimatas, Georgantas, Giatzis, Gikas, Gizikis, Gonatas, Grapsas, Gratzios, Grigoriadis, Grivas, Han, Hatzianestis, Hatzimichalis, Hatzipetros, Hatzipetros, Ioannidis, Ioannou, Kallaris, Kallergis, Kallergis, Katechakis, Katheniotis, Katsimitros , Katsotas, Kleomenous, Kolokotronis, Kondylis, Kontoulis, Korakas, Kosmas, Kostarakos, Koumanakos, Koumoundouros, Leonardopoulos, Makris, Mamouris, Manetas, Manolas, Manousogiannakis, Mantakas, Matthaiopoulos, Mavromichalis, Mazarakis Ainian, Meletopoulos, Merentitis, Metaxas, Miliotis Komninos, Moschopoulos, Nider, Othonaios, Pallis, Pallis, Pangalos, Papadopoulos, Papagos, Papoulas, Paraskevopoulos, Pattakos, Perraivos, Pierrakos, Pissas, Pitsikas , Plastiras, Platis, Polymenakos, Protosyngelos, Roidis , Sapountzakis, Sapountzakis, Sarigiannis, Sisinis, Sismanis, Skarlatos, Smolenskis, Smolents, Sotilis, Sotiropoulos, Soumilas, Soutsos , Spandidakis, Spiliotopoulos, Spyromilios, Stanotas, Stefanis, Stratigos, Stratos, Tellidis, Toskas, Trikoupis, Trilivas, Tsakalotos, Tsangaridis, Tselios, Tseroulis, Tsimikalis, Tsipouras, Tsirogiannis, Tsolakoglou, Tsolakopoulos, Tsontos, Valettas, Vardanis, Vassos, Ventiris, Veryvakis, de Villaret, Vlachopoulos, Vlachopoulos, Vorvolakos, Vrachnos, Ypsilantis, Zafeiriou, Zeppos, Zervas, Zisis, Zoitakis, Zymvrakakis

 

[sman1975]

Potential GA Names (49):

Antoniadis, Apostolakis, Argyropoulos, Avgeris, Chinofotis, Damianos, Degiannis, Demestichas , Diakopoulos, Dimoulis, Dousmanis, Engolfopoulos, Giakoumakis, Handrinos, Hatzikyriakos, Ioannidis, Kanaris, Kanaris, Karageorgis, Kavvadias , Kerr, Kountouriotis, Kriezis, Kriezis, Lappas, Loundras , Lykoudis, Miaoulis, Miaoulis, Oikonomou , Panas, Pappas, Pavlopoulos, Sachtouris, Sakellariou , Theofanidis, Toumbas, Tufnell, Typaldos, Alfonsatos, Vasiliadis, Vasilikopoulos, Votsis, Voulgaris

* The names of both GGs and GAs are picked completely at random, so duplicate names are quite possible. I just call it a "family relation" and move on. So, if we don't that many Admirals available, it really won't matter too much.

 

[sman1975]

Potential Sub Names (73):

Xifias, Delfin, Agonafitis, Triaina, Pipinos, Amfitriti, Nirefs, Protefs, Triton, Glafkos, Katsonis, Papanikolis, Poseidon, Pontos, Okeanos, Matrosos, Gryparis, Vuteas, Argonaftis, Anafi, Kandanos, Kommeno, Malakassi, Milos, Paleochori, Serifos, Sofades, Thira, Vrachni, Achelous, Alfeios, Pineios, Strymon, Oinoussai, Achinos, Astakos, Garida, Gavros, Gyalisteres, Kalamari, Karavida, Kavouri, Gyalisteres, Lavraki, Ktapothi, Methi, Peschandritsas, Salahi, Sardela, Sargos, Sfirida, Sinagrida, Skaros, Skorpina, Soupia, Thrapsalo, Tonos, Xifias, Kolios, Astakos, Drakena, Lagokefalos, Ilektriko Cheli, Kaoutsouk, Liontari, Candiru, Lefkos Karcharias, Karcharias, Tigrepsa, Pirana, Petra Psariou, Tavrokarcharías, Medousa

* Was trying very hard not to make this list sound like a menu at a nice Greek seafood restaurant...

 

[sman1975]

Potential Carrier Names (46):

Marathon, Thermopylae, Mantinea, Granikos, Issou, Gavgamílon, Ydaspi, Aegospotamos, Nafpaktou, Tripolitsas, Gravias, Dervenakion, Mesolongiou, Vasilikon Fthiotidas, Mani, Mouzakiou, Tsesme, Vromopigadas, Daras, Dekimon, Voustagalloron, Akroinou, Konstantinoupolis, Kleidiou, Yelion kai Leimocheir, Antiocheia tou Maiandrou, Sarantaporou, Giannitson, Pente Pigadia, Ellis, Korytsas, Limnou, Kioutacheias, Olympias, Hellas, Argo, Daskalogiannis, Metaxas, Alexandros o Megas, Periklis, Leonidas, Venizelos, Kapodistrias, Ypsilantis, Mavrokordatos, Mavromichalis, Zaimis

Primarily, Greek military victories, but a few key figures in history.

Am wondering - is there any place for any "mythological" additions, more than we already have?

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As it stands now, I have more than enough ship and GG/GA names. Just need to get the unit organization names, and I'll be ready to proceed. The update to the WW2 scenario is almost finished, so there's still time to get these names into the namer script.

Appreciate any feedback on any of the names. I took most of them from the Greek version of Wikipedia pages, ran through Google Translate to transliterate the names into English, with simple Latin letters. Best way to keep the Civ5 game engine from getting confused.

 

[jeriko one]

Potential Carrier Names (46):

Am wondering - is there any place for any "mythological" additions, more than we already have?

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As it stands now, I have more than enough ship and GG/GA names. Just need to get the unit organization names, and I'll be ready to proceed. The update to the WW2 scenario is almost finished, so there's still time to get these names into the namer script.

Appreciate any feedback on any of the names. I took most of them from the Greek version of Wikipedia pages, ran through Google Translate to transliterate the names into English, with simple Latin letters. Best way to keep the Civ5 game engine from getting confused.

Great work sman1975!!! A research well-implemented I am also happy that I was of help. The Greek restaurant was worthy of its label I hope, btw.

Loved the names. Sorry for the late reply concerning fish names, though. Perks of being in the Mediterranean time zone... I agree with the "mean" fish. (and it didn't sound like a menu!!!) In accordance with this, https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Σμέρνα should definitely be on the list. Maybe in place of "Skaros".

"Mythological" one could go under submarines to beef it up a little. After all, there are four sea gods there and they are historically correct. If you want to be tongue in cheek, you can add "Daedalus" and "Icarus" as carrier names

Checked some of the ones that didn't sound right.

One of them is Liontari. I presume it is this one https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Λιοντάρι . There is already a historical destroyer called Leon on the list, so you might want to check that.

"Kaoutsouk", I guess means "caoutchouc".

I couldn't find "Dekimon" anywhere, maybe it's due to the Latinization of the name.

Battles of Mantinea were not conducted against non-Greeks. However, there is the USS Gettysburg, so I guess ships named after civil war battles should count Actually, it would even be a subtle touch.

Will be waiting for your updates. Good luck and keep up the great work!!

 

[sman1975]

The restaurant was pretty good, but nothing compared to even the simple tavernas in Greece, or even Germany for that matter. But, it definitely put me into the right frame of mind to research...

I replaced the Skaros with the Smerna name for subs. Have also found 16 names based on ancient Greek religion:

Aegean, Venthesikymi, Vrizo, Kito, Kymopoleia, Eidothea, Lefkothea, Niriides, Nireas, Styga, Potamoi, Forkys, Thalassa, Thavmas, Triteia, Tritones

Brings the total names to 89, which is more than enough.

As I recall, Leon is in honor of the actual constellation Leo, while Liontari is in honor of the actual ferocious animal. Perhaps a duplication, but I think I can live with it.

On "Kaoutsouk" vs "Caoutchouc" - I guess that's part of the problem I was trying to avoid relying on Wikipedia + Google Translate (transliteration). I could have completed the entire table of names using those tools (heck, I did with the other 10 custom civs), but as you can see, this approach yields results that are sometimes just plain wrong to someone with better knowledge of the Greek language than me (which includes just about every person on the planet). I changed the sub name to "Caoutsouk." Please let me know if there are any other errors like this.

"Dekimon" is what Google Translate spit out for "Decimum" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ad_Decimum

I think Mantinea was a mistake. I tried to avoid using battles that were intra-Greek affairs. I'm not sure how it got in the list. I'll leave it in (can't have too many carrier names!), but it was a good catch.

Appreciate the support, I'm almost done with "my version" of the unit organization names. Will post that in a few and hopefully get @Giannoulis97 to review it. Worst case, I'll put what I have into the script, and if he comes back later with corrections just fix it in the next version.

Really appreciate the assistance. It's ironic that the Greek portion of the naming tables will be the best one, after the USA and UK names...

 

[sman1975]

@Giannoulis97 - here is my first attempt/guess at what these units should be called, with a few sample versions. They came from a sampling of unit names used by the Greek military in the 20th century. Appreciate any feedback you have:

1. "Airborne Division" = “Merarchia Alexiptotiston”

2. "Armor Division" = “Tethorakismeni Merarchia”

3. "Infantry Division" = “Merarchia Pezikou”

4. "Marine Division" = “Merarchia Pezonafton”

5. "Air Defense Regiment” = “Moira Antiaeroporikou"

6. "Anti-Tank Regiment" = “Syntagma Antiarmatikon"

7. "Artillery Regiment" = “Syntagma Pyrovolikou"

8. "Special Forces Regiment" = “Syntagma Eidikon Epicheiriseon"

9. "Machine Gun Company" = “Oulamos Polyvolon "

10. "Cavalry Regiment" = “Syntagma Ippikou"

11. "Aviation Regiment" = “Taxiarchia Aeroporias"

12. "Drone Squadron" = “Moira Mi Epandromenon Aeroskafon"

13. "Medical Battalion" = “Tagma Ygeionomikou"

14. "Fighter Squadron" = “Pteryga Machis"

15. "Bomber Squadron" = “Moira Vomvardismou"

16. "Recon Squadron" = “Epilarchia Anagnoriseos"

17. "Robotics Regiment" = “Syntagma Rompotiki"

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I'm not quite sure how to use "enumeration" for these units. The first infantry division created will be called:

1 Merarchia Alexiptotiston or 1o Merarchia Alexiptotiston or 1e Merarchia Alexiptotiston ?

The abbreviation/suffix of the ordinal number is a bit of a mystery to me. I've seen units listed on various Orders of Battle that use no abbreviation/suffix, "os", "o", and "i". I've read something about how the suffix depends on various declensions on the words it surrounds. I'm not sure I want to rewrite the script to provide 17+ different suffixes depending on the complexities of Greek grammar.

I guess the basic question is: is the first example ("1 Merarchia Alexiptotiston", with no suffix) look ok?

Thanks!

 

[jeriko one]

Well, I understand how there can be differences between the real thing and a "pretty good try". It's been quite a while since I've visited a taberna (or its Turkish counterparts).

Great points about the names and nice additions to the list. It is indeed ironic!!! Well, take a look at the situation from this point of view: the Minor Power with the greatest potential in the scenario gets the best treatment

I am very happy to be of help. Also, it is always good to be a small part of something you have enjoyed playing. By the way, should you need any info on Turkey or the Ottoman Empire, I will be at your service. I am a native Turkish speaker (as to the Ottoman language, only in legalese), therefore I can somehow reach the necessary info, as I did with the town populations.

All the best!

 

[sman1975]

Namer script is up and working in the (still updating) WW2 scenario mod. A quick sample of the results:



I still have time to make fixes if Giannoulis97 lets me know what's broken.

Really appreciate the solid feedback. The WW1 and WW2 Scenarios will be in much better shape because of your suggestions, and even the Main WAW mod will benefit as well. I usually don't get such good assistance, so I really want to say thanks for the great support!



EDIT: Native Turkish speaker? Hmmmm.... Would you be interested in helping me get my Ottoman/Turkish naming tables "right?"

The data for all the naming tables originated with my "Napolean at War" mods. So, all the ship and GG & GA names came from my research and ended about the year 1810. This means a lot of late Ottoman, early Turkish names aren't used. I also used unit organization names based on unit in the 1700's, that might not represent what they would have been called in the late 1800's and beyond.

If you're interested, let me know, and I'll post the table contents here for your review and correction. No worries if you don't want to, though.

 

[jeriko one]

Looks superb!!! I haven't played your WW2 scenario. Definitely, a reason to play it after the update. (If find the time I might even play before it as Turkey)

Thanks for your kind words!!! I appreciate it Concerning the naming tables, please post them!! I would love to help with those. I will help with the GC, GA, and ship names, too. So, I will write down the melee, battleship, submarine, and carrier names for both WW1 and WW2. Plus, GA and GG names. Might take some time, though. Waiting for the unit organization names.

 

[jeriko one]

So... I have found the relevant names for different types of ships but had serious problems with the carriers. Here is the list.

Ottoman Empire

Ironclad - Mesudiye, Hamidiye, Mahmudiye, Asar-ı Tevfik, Asar-ı Şevket, Lütf-ü Celil (this is actually a monitor).

Melee - Peyk-i Şevket (torpedo cruiser), Samsun, Yarhisar, Taşoz, Basra, Muavenet-i Milliye, Yadigar-i Millet, Numune-i Hamiyet, Gayret-i Vataniye. I suggest using place names. A lot of the gunboats of the Empire had place names such as: Akka, Varna, Musul, Rodos, Aynalıkavak, İstanköy, Fırat, Şat, Nur-ül Bahir, Kastamonu, Yozgat, Taşköprü, Gökçedağ, Refahiye, Ayintab, Malatya, Seddülbahir , Ordu, Bafra, Marmaris, Sakız.

Battleship - Yavuz Sultan Selim (ex-Goeben), Mecidiye (armoured cruiser), Hamidiye (ditto), Midilli (ditto).

Former galleons, frigates, etc which might help with filling in the blanks (these were mostly not existing in 1913) - Peyk-i Zafer, Kosova, Fethiye, Şadiye, Mecidiye, Taif, Saik-i Şadi, Feyza-i Bahri,Muhbir-i Sürur, Kervan-ı Bahri, Selimiye, Hüdavendigar, Nasr-ül Aziz, Ertuğrul, Peyk-i Meserret, Rehber-i Tevfik, Peyk-i Nusret, Mukaddime-i Şeref, Mehmed Selim, Eser-i Cedid, Sinop, Bursa, İzmir, Edirne, Zuhaf, Meriç, Heybetnüma, Zuhaf, Mansure, Kilid Bahir, Muzaffer, Lütf-ü Hümayun, Feyza-i Bahri. The galleon Mahmudiye was the biggest ship in the world for a while.

Submarine - The Empire had a single submarine and it was Müstecip Onbaşı. It was a French sub that ran aground during the Dardanelles Campaign. I suggest using Torpedoboat names. They are: Burhaneddin, Tevfik, Mecidiye, Nimet, Şanaver, Eser-i Terakki, Timsah, Şemşir-i Hücum, Mahabet, Satvet, Gilyum, Saiki, Tir-i Zafer, Seyf-i Bahri, Vesile-i Nusret, Nasır, Faith, Tarık, Nusret, Şahab, Pervin, Siham, Ejder, Berk Efşan, Tayyar, Yunus, Akhisar, Alpagot, Antalya, Urfa, Ankara, Tokad, Draç, Kütahya, Musul, Demirhisar, Sultanhisar, Sivrihisar, Hamidabad, Peleng-i Derya, Nimet, Şahin-i Derya,

Carrier - I have to admit that I have no idea with what to do with that. We can brainstorm.

Smaller and outdated late-19th and early 20th century Ottoman Ships - Avnillah (corvette), Muin-i Zafer (corvette), Feth-i Bülend (ditto), Mukaddime-i Hayır (armoured corvette), Iclaliye (armoured frigate), Feth-ül Islam (river monitor), Işkodra (ditto), Semendire (ditto), Abdülkadir (pre-dreadnought), Turgut Reis (ditto), Barbaros Hayreddin (ditto)

Ships seized by the UK or Italy at the outbreak of the Great War - Sultan Osman-ı Evvel (Dreadnought - later HMS Agincourt), Reşadiye (Battlecruiser - later HMS Erin), Fatih Sultan Mehmed (scrapped by the UK), Drama (protected cruiser - seized by Italy)



Turkey

Main idea: Due to a change in ideology, language, and nation after the creation of a new state, certain things from the Ottoman era should not be transposed to the Republic era.

Carrier - The same problem with the Ottoman carriers persists here. I really have no idea.

Melee - Basra, Samsun, Gayret, Zafer, Tınaztepe, Demirhisar, Sultanhisar, Muavenet, Kocatepe, Adatepe. I would go for seaside towns and islands like: Giresun, Hopa, Trabzon, Ünye, Abana, Amasra, Eregli, Gölcük, Gemlik, İskenderun, Alanya, Silifke, Ayvalık, Fethiye, İzmit, Heybeliada, Burgazada, Büyükada, Kınalıada, Marmara, Gökçeada, Bozcaada, İmroz. I would also add Sinop, Bursa, İzmir, Edirne as well as some rivers such as Fırat, Dicle, Menderes, Kızılırmak, Yeşilırmak, Çoruh, Manavgat, Seyhan, Ceyhan, Aras, Bartın.

Battleship - Yavuz (first “Sultan” was rescinded, then “Selim”). What about adjectives? Yavuz means, among others, strong and tough. The pattern would be parallel to that of the Royal Navy ships like Illustrious, Glorious, Invincible etc. That would give us 15-20 names, I guess. I would also add sea and region names: Anadolu, Trakya, Marmara, Karadeniz, Akdeniz, Ege.

Submarine - Burak Reis, Murat Reis, Oruç Reis, Yıldıray, Saldıray, Atılay, Batıray (seized by Germany), Uluç Ali Reis (seized by the UK), Gür, Dumlupınar, Birinci İnönü, İkinci İnönü, Sakarya. So the patterns are: famous Ottoman admirals, victories in the Turkish War of Independence and some newly accepted Turkish names including “ay” which means “moon”. So I suggest Piri Reis, Kemal Reis, Piyale, Salih Reis, Barbaros Hayrettin (in Turkish its double “t”) Duatepe, Seydi Ali Reis, Muslihittin Reis, Çaka Bey (he is a Byzantine turncoat but would work. He is held in high regard in Turkey), Kahramanmaraş, Şanlıurfa, Gaziantep, Kars, Adana, Anafartalar, Çanakkale, Preveze, Cerbe, Seddülbahir, Doğanay, Hüray, Dolunay, Koray.

I will need some time for the generals and admirals. That subject is a political minefield!!!

 

[sman1975]

Good input. Forgive me, am in a rush this morning, with no time to post. I'll put in the tables later today when I have some time.

One thing to consider is that the namer script doesn't start renaming units until the civ is in the Industrial Era or later. So, we're talking 1870's Earth-equivalent or so at the earliest. The script won't care about Ottoman vs. Turkey - it will use the same names for both.

Also, the script in the Main WAW mod only renames the normal game's Ottoman civ's units. If you have any suggestions about other custom Ottoman/Turkish civs it should rename, please let me know.

And finally, I can't use any letters except simple Latin (helps prevents bad behavior/crashes when there are problems with the game's localization methods). So, if there are any alternate spellings for letters like ü, ö, ş, ç, ğ, etc., let me know, or can I use the basic Latin equivalents of u, o, s, c, g, etc.?

 

[jeriko one]

Hmmmm. I thought that the WW1 and WW2 scenarios had their own, separate tables. No problem.

Ok, then, I am copying and pasting the names in my previous post. The ones in bold and red can be used interchangeably in Turkey and the Ottoman Empire. So they should make it into the tables. The others are strictly Turkish or strictly Ottoman.

Also, "u, o, s, c, g" are perfect!! You can use them in capitals, too. So, "Iskenderun", "Sahab" and "Caka Bey" would work.

Ottoman Empire

Ironclad - Mesudiye, Hamidiye, Mahmudiye, Asar-ı Tevfik, Asar-ı Şevket, Lütf-ü Celil (this is actually a monitor).

Melee - Peyk-i Şevket (torpedo cruiser), Samsun, Yarhisar, Taşoz, Basra, Muavenet-i Milliye, Yadigar-i Millet, Numune-i Hamiyet, Gayret-i Vataniye. I suggest using place names. A lot of the gunboats of the Empire had place names such as: Akka, Varna, Musul, Rodos, Aynalıkavak, İstanköy, Fırat, Şat, Nur-ül Bahir, Kastamonu, Yozgat, Taşköprü, Gökçedağ, Refahiye, Ayintab, Malatya, Seddülbahir, Ordu, Bafra, Marmaris, Sakız.

Battleship - Yavuz Sultan Selim (ex-Goeben), Mecidiye (armoured cruiser), Hamidiye (ditto), Midilli (ditto).

Former galleons, frigates, etc which might help with filling in the blanks (these were mostly not existing in 1913) - Peyk-i Zafer, Kosova, Fethiye, Şadiye, Mecidiye, Taif, Saik-i Şadi, Feyza-i Bahri, Muhbir-i Sürur, Kervan-ı Bahri, Selimiye, Hüdavendigar, Nasr-ül Aziz, Ertuğrul, Peyk-i Meserret, Rehber-i Tevfik, Peyk-i Nusret, Mukaddime-i Şeref, Mehmed Selim, Eser-i Cedid, Sinop, Bursa, İzmir, Edirne, Zuhaf, Meriç, Heybetnüma, Zuhaf, Mansure, Kilid Bahir, Muzaffer, Lütf-ü Hümayun, Feyza-i Bahri. The galleon Mahmudiye was the biggest ship in the world for a while.

Submarine - The Empire had a single submarine and it was Müstecip Onbaşı. It was a French sub that ran aground during the Dardanelles Campaign. I suggest using Torpedoboat names. They are: Burhaneddin, Tevfik, Mecidiye, Nimet, Şanaver, Eser-i Terakki, Timsah, Şemşir-i Hücum, Mahabet, Satvet, Gilyum, Saiki, Tir-i Zafer, Seyf-i Bahri, Vesile-i Nusret, Nasır, Fatih, Tarık, Nusret, Şahab, Pervin, Siham, Ejder, Berk Efşan, Tayyar, Yunus, Akhisar, Alpagot, Antalya, Urfa, Ankara, Tokad, Draç, Kütahya, Musul, Demirhisar, Sultanhisar, Sivrihisar, Hamidabad, Peleng-i Derya, Nimet, Şahin-i Derya,

Carrier - I have to admit that I have no idea what to do with that. We can brainstorm.

Smaller and outdated late-19th and early 20th century Ottoman Ships - Avnillah (corvette), Muin-i Zafer (corvette), Feth-i Bülend (ditto), Mukaddime-i Hayır (armoured corvette), Iclaliye (armoured frigate), Feth-ül Islam (river monitor), Işkodra (ditto), Semendire (ditto), Abdülkadir (pre-dreadnought), Turgut Reis (ditto), Barbaros Hayreddin (ditto)

Ships seized by the UK or Italy at the outbreak of the Great War - Sultan Osman-ı Evvel (Dreadnought - later HMS Agincourt), Reşadiye (Battlecruiser - later HMS Erin), Fatih Sultan Mehmed (scrapped by the UK), Drama (protected cruiser - seized by Italy)


Turkey

Carrier - The same problem with the Ottoman carriers persists here. I really have no idea.

Melee - Basra, Samsun, Gayret, Zafer, Tınaztepe, Demirhisar, Sultanhisar, Muavenet, Kocatepe, Adatepe. I would go for seaside towns and islands like: Giresun, Hopa, Trabzon, Ünye, Abana, Amasra, Eregli, Gölcük, Gemlik, İskenderun, Alanya, Silifke, Ayvalık, Fethiye, İzmit, Heybeliada, Burgazada, Büyükada, Kınalıada, Marmara, Gökçeada, Bozcaada, İmroz. I would also add Sinop, Bursa, İzmir, Edirne as well as some rivers such as Fırat, Dicle, Menderes, Kızılırmak, Yeşilırmak, Çoruh, Manavgat, Seyhan, Ceyhan, Aras, Bartın.

Battleship - Yavuz (first “Sultan” was rescinded, then “Selim”). What about adjectives? Yavuz means, among others, strong and tough. The pattern would be parallel to that of the Royal Navy ships like Illustrious, Glorious, Invincible etc. That would give us 15-20 names, I guess. I would also add sea and region names: Anadolu, Trakya, Marmara, Karadeniz, Akdeniz, Ege.

Submarine - Burak Reis, Murat Reis, Oruç Reis, Yıldıray, Saldıray, Atılay, Batıray (seized by Germany), Uluç Ali Reis (seized by the UK), Gür, Dumlupınar, Birinci İnönü, İkinci İnönü, Sakarya. So the patterns are: famous Ottoman admirals, victories in the Turkish War of Independence and some newly accepted Turkish names including “ay” which means “moon”. So I suggest Piri Reis, Kemal Reis, Piyale, Salih Reis, Barbaros Hayrettin (in Turkish its double “t”) Duatepe, Seydi Ali Reis, Muslihittin Reis, Çaka Bey (he is a Byzantine turncoat but would work. He is held in high regard in Turkey), Kahramanmaraş, Şanlıurfa, Gaziantep, Kars, Adana, Anafartalar, Çanakkale, Preveze, Cerbe, Seddülbahir, Doğanay, Hüray, Dolunay, Koray.

 

[sman1975]

They have seperate tables, but the tables are identical... In fact, there are 3 seperate tables, that before we added the Greek civ in the WW2 mod were copies of each other: the Main WAW mod, the WW1, and the WW2 scenarios.

So, there's no problem with making additions to each table, where the scenario versions can focus on a tight window of time (1914-1918, and 1939-1945), while the Main WAW mod has to work for 1870 - 2100.

So, I'll use the "Ottoman" names above when I update the WW1 scenario, and add the "Turkey" names to the WW2 scenario, with the red names going into both scenario tables. And I'll add all of the names to the Main WaW? mod?

As for carriers, perhaps some of the suggestions for the Greeks apply here: battles won in the past, as well as the greatest leaders from the Ottoman and Turkish past, and there are more than a few to pick from here.

Also, when it comes time to update the Main WaW mod (in a few weeks), I'll need a list of Ottoman/Turkish civs to add to that mod, so it knows when to change the names or not. The mod can't "guess" which civ is Ottoman/Turkey, so I have to specifically point out which civs get the renaming treatment.

In the Main WAW mod, I'm using the abbreviation of "TCG" before every ship name in WW2 Era and later ships. I didn't see anything about a prefix for Ottoman ships, however. Was there such an abbreviation used? If not, do you think we can make up one (as done with France. They never used prefix abbreviations, so the namer uses "FS" for "French Ship" - which is what other countries use to describe French ships). I used "OS" for "Ottoman Ship" for ships built in the Industrial and Modern Eras, but that was only a placeholder until something better came along.

The problem is that without the prefix, you have a bunch of units on the map with a simple name on them. Looks confusing, very confusing compared with the other named units. Adding a prefix cleans up the look of the map, making it easier to understand what's going on.

The following few posts are the current version of the Turkish naming table. Forgive the format, it's just how the game needs to see it.

 

[sman1975]

Turkish Carriers (I have no memory where I took these names from):

"Selanik", "Nusrat", "Muzaffer", "Gayret", "Nilufer", "Ron", "Abdulhamit", "Mustecip Onbasi", "Babil", "Trabzon", "Halic", "Gor", "Kryocya", "Izmir",
"Hudeyde", "Marmara", "Bezmi Alem", "Tiri Mujgan", "Eseri Cedid", "Mithat Pasa", "Resit Pasa", "Plevne", "Urla", "Nara", "Mahmut Sevket", "Gulcemal",
"Bandirma", "Derne", "Halep", "Sam", "Karadeniz", "Arkdeniz", "Alemdar", "Neveser", "Kizilimak", "Yesihrmak", "Gelibolu", "Edremeit", "Mersin", "Inebolu",
"Hudavendigar", "Bosporus", "Rehber", "Ceyhun", "Zonguldak", "Zafer", "Derince", "Seyhun", "Ugurola", "Patmos", "Vatan", "Resan", "Suhule", "Sahibent",
"Surya", "Leone", "Fevz Nusrat", "Kaid Zafer", "Asia", "Nusretiye", "Resid", "Avnillah", "Nizamiye", "Nesimi Zafer", "Fazlullah", "Naveki Bahri",
"Dimyad", "Kaidi Zafer", "Nacmi Zafer", "Taif", "Mecidiye", "Saiki Sadi", "Feyzai Bahri", "Muhbiri Surur", "Ziri Cihat", "Serafeddin",
"Payki Zafer", "Kosava", "Fethiye", "Sadiye", "Mecidiye", "Taif", "Saiki Sadi", "Feyzai Bahri", "Muhbiri Surur", "Kervani Bahri", "Ertugul", "Hudavendigar"

 

[sman1975]

Turkish Naval Melee:

"El Mansouriye", "Rehber Iskender", "Bel Houaz", "El Touloniye", "Sancta Chiara", "Meskini Ghazi", "Bedri Zafar", "Fakihi Zafar", "Nessim",
"Iskenderiye", "Badere Zafer", "Bedri Zafar", "Mahubey Subhan", "Hifizi Rahman", "Feyzi Mirac", "Keyvani Bahri", "Fevzi Nusret", "Bandino Seret",
"Mejra Zafer", "Nouhan Bahari", "Msian Zafer", "Chabal Bahari", "Naoum Bahari", "Diwan", "Ihsania", "Ghuih Rewan", "Fahti Bahri", "Burj Zafer",
"Surya", "Leone", "Fevz Nusrat", "Kaid Zafer", "Asia", "Nusretiye", "Resid", "Avnillah", "Nizamiye", "Nesimi Zafer", "Fazlullah", "Naveki Bahri",
"Dimyad", "Kaidi Zafer", "Nacmi Zafer", "Taif", "Mecidiye", "Saiki Sadi", "Feyzai Bahri", "Muhbiri Surur", "Ziri Cihat", "Serafeddin",
"Payki Zafer", "Kosava", "Fethiye", "Sadiye", "Mecidiye", "Taif", "Saiki Sadi", "Feyzai Bahri", "Muhbiri Surur", "Kervani Bahri", "Ertugul", "Hudavendigar",
"Nasrul Aziz", "Selimiye", "Peyki Meserret", "Peyki Nusret", "Mukaddemei Seref", "Rehberi Tevfik", "Mehmed Selim", "Eseri Cedid", "Bursa", "Edime",
"Beyruit", "Seddul Bahir", "Iskenderiya", "Zuhaf", "Utarit", "Meric", "Mansure", "Lubnan", "Muzaffer", "Heybet Numa", "Kilid Bahir", "Osmaniye",
"Aziziye", "Orhaniye", "Mahmudiye", "Fatih", "Fettah", "Mesudiye", "Hamidiye", "Peyki Seref", "Burci Zafer", "Asari Tevfik", "Asart Sevket", "Necmi Sevket",
"Lufti Celil", "Hifzi Rahman", "Avnnillah", "Muini Zafer", "Fethi Bulend", "Mukaddemei Hayir", "Iclaiye", "Fethul Islam", "Iskodra", "Bogurllen", "Podgorica",
"Semendirel", "Memduhiye", "Hizber", "Seyfi", "Abdul Kadir", "El Merikane", "Mashouda", "El Porutgaziye", "Grande Corvetta", "El Tunisiye", "El Jazairiye" },

 

[sman1975]

Turkish Naval Ranged:

"Nevsehir", "Ordu", "Gokcedag", "Refahiye", "Ayintap", "Bafra", "Kasamonu", "Yozgat", "Nurubahir", "Dogan", "Selmani Pak", "Giresun", "Intibah",
"Selanik", "Nusrat", "Muzaffer", "Gayret", "Nilufer", "Ron", "Abdulhamit", "Mustecip Onbasi", "Babil", "Trabzon", "Halic", "Gor", "Kryocya", "Izmir",
"Hudeyde", "Marmara", "Bezmi Alem", "Tiri Mujgan", "Eseri Cedid", "Mithat Pasa", "Resit Pasa", "Plevne", "Urla", "Nara", "Mahmut Sevket", "Gulcemal",
"Bandirma", "Derne", "Halep", "Sam", "Karadeniz", "Arkdeniz", "Alemdar", "Neveser", "Kizilimak", "Yesihrmak", "Gelibolu", "Edremeit", "Mersin", "Inebolu",
"Hudavendigar", "Bosporus", "Rehber", "Ceyhun", "Zonguldak", "Zafer", "Derince", "Seyhun", "Ugurola", "Patmos", "Vatan", "Resan", "Suhule", "Sahibent",
"Gazal", "Ertugrul", "Istanbul", "Izzettin", "Fuat", "Sogtlu", "Beyrut", "Galata", "Seyyar", "Trablusgarp", "Si[ka", "Ihsaniye", "Sultaniye",
"Sultan Selim", "Barbados Hayreddin", "Turgut Reis", "Mesudiye", "Midilli", "Hamidiye", "Peyki Sevkret", "Berki Satvet", "Numunei Hamiyet", "Muaveneti Milliye",
"Gayreti Vataniye", "Yadigari Millet", "Samsun", "Tasoz", "Basra", "Yarhisar", "Drac", "Kutahya", "Musul", "Akhisar", "Sultanhisar", "Demirhisar",
"Sivrihisar", "Hamidebed", "Yunus", "Nusret", "Intibah", "Nilufer", "Goeben", "Hayreddin", "Mesudiye", "Medjidiye", "Midilli", "Durandal", "Gaireti Watanije",
"Jadhigaro Millet", "Muaveneti Millet", "Nusret", "Mustecip Onbasi", "Sultan Osman", "Resadiya", "Yavuz", "Mecidiye", "Asari Tevfik", "Avnillah",
"Fethi Bulent", "Muini Zafer", "Necmi Sevket", "Iclaliya", "Berkefsan", "Alpagut", "Tokat", "Ankara", "Demirhisar", "Sivrihisar", "Hamibadad", "Zuhaf",
"Pelengi Derya", "Aydin Reis", "Bural Reis", "Preveze", "Sakiz", "Durak Reis", "Isa Reis", "Hizir Reis", "Marmaris", "Malatya", "Taskorpru" },