SMAN's The World at War

[sman1975]

Turkish Subs:

"Gayreti Vataniye", "Yadigari Millet", "Samsun", "Tasoz", "Basra", "Yarhisar", "Drac", "Kutahya", "Musul", "Akhisar", "Sultanhisar", "Demirhisar",
"Sivrihisar", "Hamidebed", "Yunus", "Nusret", "Intibah", "Nilufer", "Goeben", "Hayreddin", "Mesudiye", "Medjidiye", "Midilli", "Durandal", "Gaireti Watanije",
"Jadhigaro Millet", "Muaveneti Millet", "Nusret", "Mustecip Onbasi", "Sultan Osman", "Resadiya", "Yavuz", "Mecidiye", "Asari Tevfik", "Avnillah",
"Fethi Bulent", "Muini Zafer", "Necmi Sevket", "Iclaliya", "Berkefsan", "Alpagut", "Tokat", "Ankara", "Demirhisar", "Sivrihisar", "Hamibadad", "Zuhaf",
"Pelengi Derya", "Aydin Reis", "Bural Reis", "Preveze", "Sakiz", "Durak Reis", "Isa Reis", "Hizir Reis", "Marmaris", "Malatya", "Taskorpru",
"Beyruit", "Seddul Bahir", "Iskenderiya", "Zuhaf", "Utarit", "Meric", "Mansure", "Lubnan", "Muzaffer", "Heybet Numa", "Kilid Bahir", "Osmaniye",
"Aziziye", "Orhaniye", "Mahmudiye", "Fatih", "Fettah", "Mesudiye", "Hamidiye", "Peyki Seref", "Burci Zafer", "Asari Tevfik", "Asart Sevket", "Necmi Sevket",
"Lufti Celil", "Hifzi Rahman", "Avnnillah", "Muini Zafer", "Fethi Bulend", "Mukaddemei Hayir", "Iclaiye", "Fethul Islam", "Iskodra", "Bogurllen", "Podgorica",
"Semendirel", "Memduhiye", "Hizber", "Seyfi", "Abdul Kadir", "El Merikane", "Mashouda", "El Porutgaziye", "Grande Corvetta", "El Tunisiye", "El Jazairiye" },

 

[sman1975]

Turkish GA:

"Ali Pasha", "Ziyauddin", "Hilmi Pasha", "Seydi Pasha", "Mehmed Pasha", "Mustafa Pasha", "Mustafa IV", "Al Temiyat", "Al Habash",
"Al Mukhtar", "Al Sariff", "Al Sahaf", "Hijaz", "Al Dossari", "Mahmud II", "Ahmed Pasha", "Kerim Pasha", "Nadir Pasha", "Eyub Pasha",
"Muhtar Pasha", "Akbaytogan", "Tahsin Pash", "Wehib Pasha", "Izzet Pasha", "Aykuz", "Riza Pasha", "Sabis", "Mehmed Ziyaeddin", "Makil Pash",
"Lakeman", "Kut", "Cobanli", "Djemal Pash", "Enver Pasha", "Faik Pasha", "Fakhri Pasha", "Hakki Pasha", "Illinski", "Fazil Pasha",
"Nuri Pasha", "Hifzi Pasha", "Selaheddin", "Subasu", "Kmety", "Killigil", "Karabekir", "Cebesoy", "Cakmak", "Bevzi Big", "Baker", "Nureddin Pasha"

 

[sman1975]

Turkish GG:

"Ali Pasha", "Ziyauddin", "Hilmi Pasha", "Seydi Pasha", "Mehmed Pasha", "Mustafa Pasha", "Mustafa IV", "Al Temiyat", "Al Habash",
"Al Mukhtar", "Al Sariff", "Al Sahaf", "Hijaz", "Al Dossari", "Mahmud II", "Ahmed Pasha", "Kerim Pasha", "Nadir Pasha", "Eyub Pasha",
"Muhtar Pasha", "Akbaytogan", "Tahsin Pash", "Wehib Pasha", "Izzet Pasha", "Aykuz", "Riza Pasha", "Sabis", "Mehmed Ziyaeddin", "Makil Pash",
"Lakeman", "Kut", "Cobanli", "Djemal Pash", "Enver Pasha", "Faik Pasha", "Fakhri Pasha", "Hakki Pasha", "Illinski", "Fazil Pasha",
"Nuri Pasha", "Hifzi Pasha", "Selaheddin", "Subasu", "Kmety", "Killigil", "Karabekir", "Cebesoy", "Cakmak", "Bevzi Big", "Baker", "Nureddin Pasha"

 

[sman1975]

I haven't had time to cross-check my old names with the ones you've added in the previous posts. IIRC, almost all these names came from historical Ottoman ships primarily, as there were only a few Turkish ship names available, and most of those used similar names to the Ottoman navy.

There's no problem with using the names in the GA and GG tables as ship names, either, so those are available for carriers if we need them. I still think that we should take the "best of the best" GG and GA names from Ottoman/Turkish history and use those for carriers, and however many names we need to get to 50 names, then take the "best of the best" historical battles to round-out the list.

It looks like adjectives would be quite fine for naval ranged ships. There are many precedents.

I'll add the "Turkey" list and the names in bold/red above to the WW2 namer script right now, as I'm wrapping up changes on it hopefully today. When I get to the WW1 script, I'll add the Ottoman names above. When I get to the Main WAW script, I may just simply add them all to the list.

Will also take a stab at the carrier list in a few.

 

[sman1975]

Here are some suggestions about carrier names:

Heroes (21):
Mehmed II, Orhan I, Enver Pasha, Esref Bey, Ali Sait Pasha, Kuscubasi Esref, Kemal Ataturk, Omar Pasha, Iskender Pasha, Nadir Pasha, Muhtar Pasha, Nuri Pasha, Edhem Pasha, Tahsin Pasha, Nazım Pasha, Mahmud Pasha, Zeki Pasha, Izzet Pasha, Fakhri Pasha, Esat Bülkat, Fevzi Çakmak


Battles (19):
Mudanya, Gemlik, Uskudar, Kadikoy, Bapheus, Pelekanon, Maritsa, Savra, Kosovo, Nikopol, Varna, Chaldiran, Otlukbeli, Valeam, Mohacs, Preveza, Keresztes, Pruth, Krotzka

For a total 40 names. Need about 10-30 more names, just to make the list complete. I'm not sure what the best names for these should be. So, any help in making them sound better to a "Turkish" ear is appreciated.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Not sure which names should come from this list, maybe a few:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_field_marshals_of_the_Ottoman_Empire

or here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ottoman_Army_officers


Or any other major heros/victories would work.

 

[sman1975]

Am adding the names - and am thinking.... (I know, I know... ) It looks like we're getting a pretty good name list - so, I'm thinking that the tables I posted in posts 218-223 might be completely over-written with the new names you're providing? And if I'm short 10 names or so, simply pull them from the old tables?

Since the map for the scenario is so limited, I don't think I may need 75 carrier names for Turkey (same for WW1 scenario).

But, in the main WAW mod, I'd want as many names as I can get.

EDIT: Here's how things look using only the red/bold + Turkey names:

[TURKEY] = { [SHIP_ABBREVIATION] = {"OS"", ""OS"", ""TCG"", ""TCG"", ""TCG" },
                                       
                    [NAVAL_CARRIER_ID] = {
                    "Mehmed II", "Orhan I", "Enver Pasha", "Esref Bey", "Ali Sait Pasha", "Kuscubasi Esref", "Kemal Ataturk", "Omar Pasha", "Iskender Pasha",
                    "Nadir Pasha", "Muhtar Pasha", "Nuri Pasha", "Edhem Pasha", "Tahsin Pasha", "Nazim Pasha", "Mahmud Pasha", "Zeki Pasha", "Izzet Pasha",
                    "Fakhri Pasha", "Esat Bulkat", "Fevzi Cakmak", "Mudanya", "Gemlik", "Uskudar", "Kadikoy", "Bapheus", "Pelekanon", "Maritsa", "Savra", "Kosovo",
                    "Nikopol", "Varna", "Chaldiran", "Otlukbeli", "Valeam", "Mohacs", "Preveza", "Keresztes", "Pruth", "Krotzka"                  
                    },      
       

                    [NAVAL_MELEE_ID] =  {
                    "Mesudiye", "Hamidiye", "Mahmudiye", "Samsun", "Yarhisar", "Muaveneti Milliye", "Yadigari Millet", "Gayreti Vataniye", "Aynalikavak",
                    "Kastamonu", "Yozgat", "Taskopru", "Gokcedag", "Refahiye", "Malatya", "Seddulbahir", "Ordu", "Bafra", "Marmaris", "Sakiz", "Basra",
                    "Samsun", "Gayret", "Zafer", "Tinaztepe", "Demirhisar", "Sultanhisar", "Muavenet", "Kocatepe", "Adatepe", "Giresun", "Hopa", "Trabzon",
                    "Unye", "Abana", "Amasra", "Eregli", "Golcuk", "Gemlik", "Iskenderun", "Alanya", "Silifke", "Ayvalik", "Fethiye", "Izmit", "Heybeliada",
                    "Burgazada", "Buyukada", "Kinaliada", "Marmara", "Gokceada", "Bozcaada", "Imroz", "Sinop", "Bursa", "Izmir", "Edirne", "Firat", "Dicle",
                    "Menderes", "Kizilirmak", "Yesilirmak", "Coruh", "Manavgat", "Seyhan", "Ceyhan", "Aras", "Bartin"                  
                    },
                           
                               
                    [NAVAL_RANGED_ID] = {
                    "Mecidiye", "Hamidiye", "Midilli", "Fethiye", "Sadiye", "Mecidiye", "Sinop", "Bursa", "Izmir", "Edirne", "Zuhaf", "Meric", "Heybetnuma", "Zuhaf",
                    "Mansure", "Kilid Bahir", "Muzaffer", "Fatih", "Tarik", "Nusret", "Sahab", "Pervin", "Siham", "Ejder", "Berk Efsan", "Tayyar", "Yunus", "Akhisar",
                    "Alpagot", "Antalya", "Urfa", "Ankara", "Tokad", "Kutahya", "Sultanhisar", "Sivrihisar", "Nimet", "Turgut Reis", "Yavuz", "Anadolu", "Trakya",
                    "Marmara", "Karadeniz", "Akdeniz", "Ege"
                    },


                    [NAVAL_SUBMARINE_ID] =  {
                    "Burhaneddin", "Tevfik", "Mecidiye", "Nimet", "Sanaver", "Timsah", "Burak Reis", "Murat Reis", "Oruc Reis", "Yildiray", "Saldiray", "Atilay",
                    "Batiray", "Uluc Ali Reis", "Gur", "Dumlupinar", "Birinci Inonu", "Ikinci Inonu", "Sakarya", "Piri Reis", "Kemal Reis", "Piyale", "Salih Reis",
                    "Barbaros Hayrettin", "Duatepe", "Seydi Ali Reis", "Muslihittin Reis", "Caka Bey", "Kahramanmaras", "Sanliurfa", "Gaziantep", "Kars", "Adana",
                    "Anafartalar", "Canakkale", "Preveze", "Cerbe", "Seddulbahir", "Doganay", "Huray", "Dolunay", "Koray"

                    },

                    [GREAT_ADMIRAL_ID] =  {
                    "Ali Pasha", "Ziyauddin", "Hilmi Pasha", "Seydi Pasha", "Mehmed Pasha", "Mustafa Pasha", "Mustafa IV", "Al Temiyat", "Al Habash",
                    "Al Mukhtar", "Al Sariff", "Al Sahaf", "Hijaz", "Al Dossari", "Mahmud II", "Ahmed Pasha", "Kerim Pasha", "Nadir Pasha", "Eyub Pasha",
                    "Muhtar Pasha", "Akbaytogan", "Tahsin Pash", "Wehib Pasha", "Izzet Pasha", "Aykuz", "Riza Pasha", "Sabis", "Mehmed Ziyaeddin", "Makil Pash",
                    "Lakeman", "Kut", "Cobanli", "Djemal Pash", "Enver Pasha", "Faik Pasha", "Fakhri Pasha", "Hakki Pasha", "Illinski", "Fazil Pasha",
                    "Nuri Pasha", "Hifzi Pasha", "Selaheddin", "Subasu", "Kmety", "Killigil", "Karabekir", "Cebesoy", "Cakmak", "Bevzi Big", "Baker", "Nureddin Pasha"
                    },

                    [GREAT_GENERAL_ID] =  {
                    "Ali Pasha", "Ziyauddin", "Hilmi Pasha", "Seydi Pasha", "Mehmed Pasha", "Mustafa Pasha", "Mustafa IV", "Al Temiyat", "Al Habash",
                    "Al Mukhtar", "Al Sariff", "Al Sahaf", "Hijaz", "Al Dossari", "Mahmud II", "Ahmed Pasha", "Kerim Pasha", "Nadir Pasha", "Eyub Pasha",
                    "Muhtar Pasha", "Akbaytogan", "Tahsin Pash", "Wehib Pasha", "Izzet Pasha", "Aykuz", "Riza Pasha", "Sabis", "Mehmed Ziyaeddin", "Makil Pash",
                    "Lakeman", "Kut", "Cobanli", "Djemal Pash", "Enver Pasha", "Faik Pasha", "Fakhri Pasha", "Hakki Pasha", "Illinski", "Fazil Pasha",
                    "Nuri Pasha", "Hifzi Pasha", "Selaheddin", "Subasu", "Kmety", "Killigil", "Karabekir", "Cebesoy", "Cakmak", "Bevzi Big", "Baker", "Nureddin Pasha"
                    }   },

By my count: 40 carrier names, 68 melee names, 45 ranged names, and 42 sub names.


I can always use the existing GA and GG tables to complete the set, but there's a pretty good amount of names here, except for ranged units and possibly subs. We'll need some more of those.

 

[jeriko one]

So, I'll use the "Ottoman" names above when I update the WW1 scenario, and add the "Turkey" names to the WW2 scenario, with the red names going into both scenario tables. And I'll add all of the names to the Main WaW? mod?

As for carriers, perhaps some of the suggestions for the Greeks apply here: battles won in the past, as well as the greatest leaders from the Ottoman and Turkish past, and there are more than a few to pick from here.

Also, when it comes time to update the Main WaW mod (in a few weeks), I'll need a list of Ottoman/Turkish civs to add to that mod, so it knows when to change the names or not. The mod can't "guess" which civ is Ottoman/Turkey, so I have to specifically point out which civs get the renaming treatment.

In the Main WAW mod, I'm using the abbreviation of "TCG" before every ship name in WW2 Era and later ships. I didn't see anything about a prefix for Ottoman ships, however. Was there such an abbreviation used? If not, do you think we can make up one (as done with France. They never used prefix abbreviations, so the namer uses "FS" for "French Ship" - which is what other countries use to describe French ships). I used "OS" for "Ottoman Ship" for ships built in the Industrial and Modern Eras, but that was only a placeholder until something better came along.

Exactly! The change in language and ideology reflects in the names, so, as you indicated, Ottoman/WW1, Turkish/WW2, red/both, and All/WaW. That would be perfect.

I will check the list today, also make suggest some names.

Regarding the third point... Unfortunately, I have been away from the forums for a long time and I do not know the meaning of the abbreviation. A "civilian" is maybe, like the Great Scientist, Artist, Musician, Engineer?

TCG for WW2 might be anachronistic, but since it will make things much easier you should use it. Before sending you the list I checked to see when the abbreviation "TCG" started to use. However, I wasn't able to find the exact date. Could be after the accession to NATO or just after WW2. I noticed no references to "TCG" in the WW2 ship reference guides. But as I said, pragmatism should trump historicity. No abbreviation for the Ottoman Empire Navy. "OS" would be fine I guess. Other options would amount to making things up. (I thought about coming up with something similar to HMS and SMS. Both denote the ship belonging to the sovereign. So the ship would belong to the Sultan. "Sultan's Ship (SS)" would make things complicated in many regards.)

 

[jeriko one]

Looks very very good!! Great Work! So this is the red/bold + Turkey names; meaning it is for the WW2 scenario. I will make some suggestions. Both historically and grammatically (according to Turkish Grammar). I will dye red the ones that should not be on a Republic of Turkey List. I will also write the reasons. I told you the subject of Turkish Generals is a political minefield ... As to grammatical ones I will change them and dye them blue. I will add some things in green. In the next post, I will write down more generals and admirals.


[NAVAL_CARRIER_ID] = {
"Mehmed II", "Orhan I", "Enver Pasha" (he left Turkey and tried to create a Turkic Empire. Also the perpatrator of the Sarikamis Disaster), "Esref Bey" (he was deprived of his citizenship due to treason), "Ali Sait Pasha", "Kuscubasi Esref" (this guy is Esref Bey, Kuşçubaşı was added following the "Surname Law"), "Mustafa Kemal Ataturk", "Ismet Inonu", "Fevzi Cakmak", "Omar Pasha", "Iskender Pasha", "Nadir Pasha", "Muhtar Pasha", "Nuri Pasha", "Edhem Pasha", "Tahsin Pasha" (died in exile), "Nazim Pasha", "Mahmud Pasha", "Zeki Pasha", "Izzet Pasha", "Hasan Tahsin" (the journalist who fired the first shot in the War of Independence), "Fakhri Pasha", "Esat Bulkat", "Fevzi Cakmak", "Kazim Karabekir", "Mudanya", "Gemlik", "Uskudar", "Kadikoy", "Bapheus" (in Turkish "Koyunhisar", "Pelekanon", "Miryakefalon", "Maritsa", "Savra", "Kosova", "Nikopol", "Varna", "Caldiran", "Otlukbeli", "Valeam" (I haven't heard of this one, "Mohac", "Preveza", "Keresztes", "Prut", "Krotzka" (in Turkish "Hisarcik"), "Kut-el Amare" (lesser known Ottoman Victory), Malazgirt (basically Manzikert),
},


[NAVAL_MELEE_ID] = {
"Mesudiye", "Hamidiye", "Mahmudiye", "Samsun", "Yarhisar", "Muaveneti Milliye", "Yadigari Millet", "Gayreti Vataniye", "Aynalikavak",
"Kastamonu", "Yozgat", "Taskopru", "Gokcedag", "Refahiye", "Malatya", "Seddulbahir", "Ordu", "Bafra", "Marmaris", "Sakiz", "Basra",
"Samsun", "Gayret", "Zafer", "Tinaztepe", "Demirhisar", "Sultanhisar", "Muavenet", "Kocatepe", "Adatepe", "Giresun", "Hopa", "Trabzon",
"Unye", "Abana", "Amasra", "Eregli", "Golcuk", "Gemlik", "Iskenderun", "Alanya", "Silifke", "Ayvalik", "Fethiye", "Izmit", "Heybeliada",
"Burgazada", "Buyukada", "Kinaliada", "Marmara", "Gokceada", "Bozcaada", "Imroz", "Sinop", "Bursa", "Izmir", "Edirne", "Firat", "Dicle",
"Menderes", "Kizilirmak", "Yesilirmak", "Coruh", "Manavgat", "Seyhan", "Ceyhan", "Aras", "Bartin"
},


[NAVAL_RANGED_ID] = {
"Mecidiye", "Hamidiye", "Midilli", "Fethiye", "Sadiye", "Mecidiye", "Sinop", "Bursa", "Izmir", "Edirne", "Zuhaf", "Meric", "Heybetnuma", "Zuhaf",
"Mansure", "Kilid Bahir", "Muzaffer", "Fatih", "Tarik", "Nusret", "Sahab", "Pervin", "Siham", "Ejder", "Berk Efsan", "Tayyar", "Yunus", "Akhisar",
"Alpagot", "Antalya", "Urfa", "Ankara", "Tokad", "Kutahya", "Sultanhisar", "Sivrihisar", "Nimet", "Turgut Reis", "Yavuz", "Anadolu", "Trakya",
"Marmara", "Karadeniz", "Akdeniz", "Ege"
},



[NAVAL_SUBMARINE_ID] = {
"Burhaneddin", "Tevfik", "Mecidiye", "Nimet", "Sanaver", "Timsah", "Burak Reis", "Murat Reis", "Oruc Reis", "Yildiray", "Saldiray", "Atilay",
"Batiray", "Uluc Ali Reis", "Gur", "Dumlupinar", "Birinci Inonu", "Ikinci Inonu", "Sakarya", "Piri Reis", "Kemal Reis", "Piyale", "Salih Reis",
"Barbaros Hayrettin", "Duatepe", "Seydi Ali Reis", "Muslihittin Reis", "Caka Bey", "Kahramanmaras", "Sanliurfa", "Gaziantep", "Kars", "Adana",
"Anafartalar", "Canakkale", "Preveze", "Cerbe", "Seddulbahir", "Doganay", "Huray", "Dolunay", "Koray"

},

[GREAT_ADMIRAL_ID] = {
"Ali Pasha", "Ziyauddin" (died in 1819), "Hilmi Pasha", "Seydi Pasha" (died in 1820), "Mehmed Pasha", "Mustafa Kemal Pasha", "Mustafa IV", "Al Temiyat", "Al Habash",
"Al Mukhtar", "Al Sariff", "Al Sahaf", "Hijaz" (this is Actually Hedjaz region in Saudi Arabia. I haven't sound anything on any Turkish General of that name) , "Al Dossari" (the ones with "Al" are definitely not Turkish), "Mahmud II" (I wouldn't add him as a Turkish General. As a WaW one, definitely), "Ahmed Pasha", "Kerim Pasha", "Nadir Pasha", "Eyub Pasha", "Muhtar Pasha", "Ali Sait Akbaytogan", "Tahsin Pasha" (see the Carrier), "Wehib Pasha", "Izzet Pasha", "Muhittin Akyuz", "Riza Pasha", "Sabis" (has links to the Armenian Genocide), "Mehmed Ziyaeddin" (died in exile), "Kamil Pasha" (not sure as he didn't fight in the Turkish War of Independence), "Lakeman", "Halil Kut" (his surname is Kut because of Kut-el Amare ), "Cevat Cobanli", "Djemal Pash" (has links to the Armenian Genocide), "Enver Pasha" (see the Carrier), "Faik Pasha", "Fahri Pasha", "Hakki Pasha", "Illinski", "Fazil Pasha" (not sure as he didn't fight in the Turkish War of Independence),, "Nuri Pasha", "Hifzi Pasha", "Selahattin Adil", "Yakup Sevki Subasi", "Kmety", "Nuri Killigil", "Kazim Karabekir", "Ali Fuat Cebesoy", "Fevzi Cakmak", "Fevzi Big", "Baker", "Nureddin Pasha",
},

[GREAT_GENERAL_ID] = {
"Ali Pasha", "Ziyauddin", "Hilmi Pasha", "Seydi Pasha", "Mehmed Pasha", "Mustafa Pasha", "Mustafa IV", "Al Temiyat", "Al Habash",
"Al Mukhtar", "Al Sariff", "Al Sahaf", "Hijaz", "Al Dossari", "Mahmud II", "Ahmed Pasha", "Kerim Pasha", "Nadir Pasha", "Eyub Pasha",
"Muhtar Pasha", "Akbaytogan", "Tahsin Pash", "Wehib Pasha", "Izzet Pasha", "Aykuz", "Riza Pasha", "Sabis", "Mehmed Ziyaeddin", "Makil Pash",
"Lakeman", "Kut", "Cobanli", "Djemal Pash", "Enver Pasha", "Faik Pasha", "Fakhri Pasha", "Hakki Pasha", "Illinski", "Fazil Pasha",
"Nuri Pasha", "Hifzi Pasha", "Selaheddin", "Subasu", "Kmety", "Killigil", "Karabekir", "Cebesoy", "Cakmak", "Bevzi Big", "Baker", "Nureddin Pasha"
} },

 

[jeriko one]

Hi again! I have conducted research concerning the admirals and commanders of the Ottoman Army and the Ottoman Navy. Since the latter was kind of small, it didn’t produce good results. There were battles and wars after 1900 but the navy part of them was not that significant. Also after a while, the Navy chiefs of staff were mostly first British, then after the outbreak of the Great War, German. There are not many successful ship captains, except Rauf Pasha, either. Therefore, I can’t find the ship captains who were somewhat successful and could be made “great admiral”.

You can add the ones in blue to the WW2 scenario as they were also seen as heroes (sometimes, to a degree due to political strifes within the Republic )

Admirals

Rauf Pasha /// WW2 - "Rauf Orbay"

Hasan Rami Pasha

Arif Ahmed Bey

Hamdi Tevfik Bey

Cibalili Tahir Mehmed Bey

Sermet Fazıl Bey

Ramiz Numan Bey

Generals

Mahmud Sevket Pasha

Nazim Pasha

Zeki Pasha

Ahmed İzzet Pasha

Curuksulu Mahmud Pasha

Mustafa Kemal Pasha

Fevzi Pasha

İsmet Pasha

Esad Pasha

Mahmut Muhtar Pasha

Refet Bey /// WW2 - Refet Bele

Abdulkerim Pasha

Cevad Pasha

Mehmed Selahaddin

Hüseyin Avni Pasha

Ali Fuat Bey

Halid Pasha /// WW 2 - Halit Karsıalan

Osman Nuri Pasha

Cavid Bey

Musa Kazim Pasha //// WW 2 - Kazim Karabekir (already on the list)

Mehmed Kazim Pasha /// WW 2 - Kazim Orbay

Kilic Ali Bey //// WW 2 - Kilic Ali

 

[sman1975]

Awesome. The list is unarguably the most historically-accurate in the mod. I'll use the data in the previous posts to fix the WW1 scenario, and simply copy the data into the WW2 on Any Map scenario as well. For the Main WAW mod, it's just going to be a combination of these tables and what's already there, which will be quite enough, I think.

What do you think of "OS" of Industrial/Belle Epoque and Modern/Great War Eras, "TS" for Atomic/WW2 Era, and "TCG" for Information/Cold War (and Future War in WAW) Era(s)?

Here is what I have for the WW2 Scenario tables for Turkey:

[TURKEY] = { [SHIP_ABBREVIATION] = {"OS", "OS", "TCG", "TCG", "TCG" },
                                      
                    [NAVAL_CARRIER_ID] = {
                    "Mehmed II", "Orhan I", "Ali Sait Pasha", "Mustafa Kemal Ataturk", "Omar Pasha", "Iskender Pasha", "Nadir Pasha", "Muhtar Pasha",
                    "Nuri Pasha", "Edhem Pasha", "Nazim Pasha", "Mahmud Pasha", "Zeki Pasha", "Izzet Pasha", "Fakhri Pasha", "Esat Bulkat", "Fevzi Cakmak",
                    "Mudanya", "Gemlik", "Uskudar", "Kadikoy", "Pelekanon", "Maritsa", "Savra", "Kosova", "Nikopol", "Varna", "Caldiran", "Otlukbeli", "Mohac",
                    "Preveza", "Keresztes", "Prut",
                    "Ismet Inonu", "Fevzi Cakmak",  "Hasan Tahsin", "Kazim Karabekir", "Miryakefalon","Kut-el Amare", "Malazgirt"
                    },     
      

                    [NAVAL_MELEE_ID] =  {
                    "Mesudiye", "Hamidiye", "Mahmudiye", "Samsun", "Yarhisar", "Muaveneti Milliye", "Yadigari Millet", "Gayreti Vataniye", "Aynalikavak",
                    "Kastamonu", "Yozgat", "Taskopru", "Gokcedag", "Refahiye", "Malatya", "Seddulbahir", "Ordu", "Bafra", "Marmaris", "Sakiz", "Basra",
                    "Samsun", "Gayret", "Zafer", "Tinaztepe", "Demirhisar", "Sultanhisar", "Muavenet", "Kocatepe", "Adatepe", "Giresun", "Hopa", "Trabzon",
                    "Unye", "Abana", "Amasra", "Eregli", "Golcuk", "Gemlik", "Iskenderun", "Alanya", "Silifke", "Ayvalik", "Fethiye", "Izmit", "Heybeliada",
                    "Burgazada", "Buyukada", "Kinaliada", "Marmara", "Gokceada", "Bozcaada", "Imroz", "Sinop", "Bursa", "Izmir", "Edirne", "Firat", "Dicle",
                    "Menderes", "Kizilirmak", "Yesilirmak", "Coruh", "Manavgat", "Seyhan", "Ceyhan", "Aras", "Bartin"                 
                    },
                          
                              
                    [NAVAL_RANGED_ID] = {
                    "Mecidiye", "Hamidiye", "Midilli", "Fethiye", "Sadiye", "Mecidiye", "Sinop", "Bursa", "Izmir", "Edirne", "Zuhaf", "Meric", "Heybetnuma", "Zuhaf",
                    "Mansure", "Kilid Bahir", "Muzaffer", "Fatih", "Tarik", "Nusret", "Sahab", "Pervin", "Siham", "Ejder", "Berk Efsan", "Tayyar", "Yunus", "Akhisar",
                    "Alpagot", "Antalya", "Urfa", "Ankara", "Tokad", "Kutahya", "Sultanhisar", "Sivrihisar", "Nimet", "Turgut Reis", "Yavuz", "Anadolu", "Trakya",
                    "Marmara", "Karadeniz", "Akdeniz", "Ege"
                    },


                    [NAVAL_SUBMARINE_ID] =  {
                    "Burhaneddin", "Tevfik", "Mecidiye", "Nimet", "Sanaver", "Timsah", "Burak Reis", "Murat Reis", "Oruc Reis", "Yildiray", "Saldiray", "Atilay",
                    "Batiray", "Uluc Ali Reis", "Gur", "Dumlupinar", "Birinci Inonu", "Ikinci Inonu", "Sakarya", "Piri Reis", "Kemal Reis", "Piyale", "Salih Reis",
                    "Barbaros Hayrettin", "Duatepe", "Seydi Ali Reis", "Muslihittin Reis", "Caka Bey", "Kahramanmaras", "Sanliurfa", "Gaziantep", "Kars", "Adana",
                    "Anafartalar", "Canakkale", "Preveze", "Cerbe", "Seddulbahir", "Doganay", "Huray", "Dolunay", "Koray"

                    },

                    [GREAT_ADMIRAL_ID] =  {
                    "Ali Pasha", "Hilmi Pasha", "Mehmed Pasha", "Mustafa Kemal Pasha", "Mustafa IV", "Al Habash", "Ahmed Pasha", "Kerim Pasha", "Nadir Pasha",
                    "Eyub Pasha", "Muhtar Pasha", "Ali Sait Akbaytogan", "Wehib Pasha", "Izzet Pasha", "Muhittin Akyuz", "Riza Pasha", "Kamil Pasha",
                    "Lakeman", "Halil Kut", "Cevat Cobanli", "Faik Pasha", "Fahri Pasha", "Hakki Pasha", "Illinski", "Nuri Pasha", "Hifzi Pasha", "Selahattin Adil",
                    "Yakup Sevki Subasi", "Kmety", "Nuri Killigil", "Kazim Karabekir", "Ali Fuat Cebesoy", "Fevzi Cakmak", "Fevzi Big", "Baker", "Nureddin Pasha", "Rauf Orbay"
                    },

                    [GREAT_GENERAL_ID] =  {
                    "Ali Pasha", "Ziyauddin", "Hilmi Pasha", "Seydi Pasha", "Mehmed Pasha", "Mustafa Pasha", "Mustafa IV", "Al Temiyat", "Al Habash",
                    "Al Mukhtar", "Al Sariff", "Al Sahaf", "Hijaz", "Al Dossari", "Mahmud II", "Ahmed Pasha", "Kerim Pasha", "Nadir Pasha", "Eyub Pasha",
                    "Muhtar Pasha", "Akbaytogan", "Tahsin Pash", "Wehib Pasha", "Izzet Pasha", "Aykuz", "Riza Pasha", "Sabis", "Mehmed Ziyaeddin", "Makil Pash",
                    "Lakeman", "Kut", "Cobanli", "Djemal Pash", "Enver Pasha", "Faik Pasha", "Fakhri Pasha", "Hakki Pasha", "Illinski", "Fazil Pasha",
                    "Nuri Pasha", "Hifzi Pasha", "Selaheddin", "Subasu", "Kmety", "Killigil", "Karabekir", "Cebesoy", "Cakmak", "Bevzi Big", "Baker", "Nureddin Pasha",
                    "Refet Bele", "Halit Karsialan", "Halit Karsıalan", "Kazim Orbay", "Kilic Ali"
                    }   },

In most of the games I've tested, Turkey usually has about 10-20 ships/subs, and about 5-10 GA/GGs. We have plenty of names for the 84 turn scenario. The larger tables in the Main WAW mod will be quite enough for regular length games.

I can't thank you enough for helping me "getting it right." It just helps pull the player deeper into the mod if there aren't glaring inaccuracies in what they're seeing on the map. I know it's a lot of work getting it right, but now that it's completed, it's completed and won't have to be reworked again.

 

[sman1975]

Another thing if you have some time - the unit organization names for Ottoman/Turkey. Here's what I have so far in all the versions of the namer script:

Airborne Division = Hava Indirme Alayi
Armor Division = Tank Alayi
Infantry Division = Piyade Alayi
Marine Division = Deniz Kuvvetleri Alayi
Air Defense Artillery Regiment = Hava Savunmasi Alayi
Anti-Tank Regiment = Tanksavar Alayi
Artillery Regiment = Topcu Alayi
Special Forces Regiment = Ozel Kuvvetler Alayi (A new unit added by WAW, replaces the Paratrooper unit)
Machine Gun Company = Mitralyoz Alayi (When machine guns were first introduced to infantry divisions, they were usually assigned to their own unit, and assigned to various infantry regiments who needed them, esp. in WW1, a bit less so in WW2)
Cavalry Regiment = Suvari Tugayi
Aviation Regiment = Helikopter Alayi ***
Drone Regiment = IHA Filo *** (This unit is a UAV [Unmanned Aerial Vehicle], like the Predator or Reaper - first appearing in the 1990s)
Medical Battalion = Sihhiye Taburu (WAW added this civilian unit, that helps faster heal damaged funits nearby)
Fighter Squadron = Saldiri Filo
Bomber Squadron = Bombaci Filo
Recon Regiment = Gozetleme Filo (Specialized units, like the Zeppelin, Recon Plane [like the Mosquito], and Recon Jet [like the SR-71])
Robotics Regiment = Robotiks Alayi ***

*** Not too important for the WW1 and WW2 scenarios, but for "WW2 On Any Map" and "Main WAW" it would be

I took most of the names from historical units of similar composition. As these came from the "Napoleon at War" mod, I'm sure I took most of them from early 19th Century orders of battle I found researching. I realize it may be difficult, but do you think you could help me develop a version for the WW2 and WW1 scenarios, and also a version that works for Main WAW (might be difficult)?

Am just trying to get the namer script as good as it can get. Appreciate it!

 

[jeriko one]

Awesome. The list is unarguably the most historically-accurate in the mod. I'll use the data in the previous posts to fix the WW1 scenario, and simply copy the data into the WW2 on Any Map scenario as well. For the Main WAW mod, it's just going to be a combination of these tables and what's already there, which will be quite enough, I think.

What do you think of "OS" of Industrial/Belle Epoque and Modern/Great War Eras, "TS" for Atomic/WW2 Era, and "TCG" for Information/Cold War (and Future War in WAW) Era(s)?

Here is what I have for the WW2 Scenario tables for Turkey:

[...]

In most of the games I've tested, Turkey usually has about 10-20 ships/subs, and about 5-10 GA/GGs. We have plenty of names for the 84 turn scenario. The larger tables in the Main WAW mod will be quite enough for regular length games.

I can't thank you enough for helping me "getting it right." It just helps pull the player deeper into the mod if there aren't glaring inaccuracies in what they're seeing on the map. I know it's a lot of work getting it right, but now that it's completed, it's completed and won't have to be reworked again.

It's great to hear that you feel fine about that. As I have always said it's a pleasure helping out. It will be a fun Turkish playthrough for anyone I'm sure.

I think that the "OS", "TS" and "TCG" differentiation is a great idea!!! It would surely reflect the trajectory of the naming patterns. Love it!!

A final point. I am very sorry to add a last-minute thing after you indicated that it won't have to be reworked again...but...I thought that you would copy and paste the Great Admiral list to the Great General list. So it didn't occur to me saying to you that my reservations regarding the Great Admiral names also apply to the Great General names. Especially the very controversial ones that are also on the Great General list. Truly sorry about that

 

[jeriko one]

This is a pretty good list. Here are my views on it. Changes will be in blue. I presume you envision the units as regiments. So I have kept the "Alay" and "Alayi" in most cases. The ones for WW2 would fit WaW. I have also written the Ottoman-specific names for the units.

Airborne Division = Hava Indirme Alayi /// For WW1 it would have been "Hava Piyade Alayi". "İndirme" is a Turkish word it so couldn't have been used in the Ottoman Army.
Armor Division = Tank Alayi /// (Zirhli Alay)
Infantry Division = Piyade Alayi
Marine Division = Deniz Kuvvetleri Alayi (Deniz Piyade Alayi) /// For WW1 it would be "Silahendaz Alayi"
Air Defense Artillery Regiment = Hava Savunmasi Alayi (Ucaksavar Alayi) /// For WW1 it would be "Ucak Savar Kitasi"
Anti-Tank Regiment = Tanksavar Alayi /// For WW1 it would have been "Tank Savar Kitasi" or "Zirhli Savar Kitasi". I haven't heard of a special Ottoman unit, therefore I am not so sure.
Artillery Regiment = Topcu Alayi
Special Forces Regiment = Ozel Kuvvetler Alayi
Machine Gun Company = Mitralyoz Alayi (Makinali Tufek Bolugu) //// For WW1 it would be Mitralyoz Bolugu - Company is "boluk"
Cavalry Regiment = Suvari Tugayi (Should be "Suvari Alayi", because tugay is brigade)
Aviation Regiment = Helikopter Alayi
Drone Regiment = IHA Filo (If the drone unit has the ability to attack land units, then it would be "SIHA Filo")
Medical Battalion = Sihhiye Taburu (Sahra Sihhiye Taburu would be better. Means "Field Medic")
Fighter Squadron = Saldiri Filo (Avci Filo) /// For WW1 it would be "Seyyad Bolugu"
Bomber Squadron = Bombaci Filo (Bombardiman Filo) /// For WW1 it would be "Bombaci Bolugu"
Recon Regiment = Gozetleme Filo /// For WW1 it would be "Rasadati Havaiye Bolugu". If the name is too long make it "Rasadat Bolugu"
Robotics Regiment = Robotiks Alayi *** (Robotik Alay)

 

[sman1975]

Thanks for that update. I'll make the changes into the WW1 and WW2 mod namer scripts, but of all the alternatives, which names would be best for the Main WAW mod, that covers the entire time frame of 1870-2100? There can be only 1 name for all Eras, so which is the "least offensive" to your ears/eyes?

It's possible to add a "Turkish" name table in addition to the "Ottoman" table we currently use, but that begs the question about what to name Turkish units in the 19th-early 20th centuries, and what to name the Ottoman units in the early 20th century and beyond? Either way we go, it's a lot of guessing, but I'd prefer to have a single table if at all possible.

----------------------------------

Also, when I update the Main WAW mod, I'll need to add any Ottoman/Turkish custom civs list so the namer will know when to apply these names. Currently, it only renames the game's normal Ottoman civ. Here are the civs I plan on adding:

MC's Ottomans (Orhan): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2235820479
TarcisioCM's Ottoman Empire (Mehmed V): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=549089569
The Good The Bad And The Ugly (all 3 civs): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=724668099
The Turks (Mehmed II): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=458447427
Republic of Turkey: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=163594764
Uighur_Caesar's Turkey: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=763311982

If you know of any other custom civs that should qualify for renaming, please let me know.

Really appreciate it!

 

[jeriko one]

Hi again. A nice Sunday to you! Concerning the unit names, I would go for the Turkish versions, and not the Ottoman WW1 ones. 2 reasons. First, when you think about it the Ottoman Empire had only 53 game years whereas the Republic of Turkey has already had 97 (we can safely presume that there will be 80 more until the year 2100. Second, in "Civ V" Suleiman speaks mostly Turkish, not Ottoman. When the player or he asks for a trade deal he says "Gelin pazarlığa tutuşalım". This is pure post-Republic speak.

Concerning the civ (at last, I understand what is), I haven't played any custom made civs, but from the list, I would prefer Uighur_Caesar's Turkey. First, the name is Turkey. The Ottoman Empire was also sometimes called Turkey. Second, Ataturk is hands down the most important person in Turkey since 1870. Third, he also had various roles for the Ottoman Empire. Fourth, the background for the "Republic of Turkey" is "meh". If you ask what is the Civ flag, it is the inverted version of the Presidential Seal of Turkey that represents Turkey and 16 previous (arguably) Turkic States.

So, my question is, what will be the UA and UU of Turkey in WAW? Did you select a scenario-specific one or are planning to copy them from the Uighur_Caesar's civ? If the latter, then this would be another reason for opting for Uighur_Caesar.

 

[sman1975]

Thanks, you're making some good points, but... Whereas the Ottoman empire has ~53 years in the WAW time frame, they're building on a vast history of what, 600+ years? Such a rich history informs everything they were doing in the late 19th century, event if they were in a relative decline with the western powers at the time (or was it they simply weren't keeping up with the Europeans?).

Suleiman is a modern Turk? Who knew! I guess it's not easy to find fluent Ottoman speakers? That doesn't sound likely to me.

Could you send me a "good" link to what the Ottoman and Turkey (in 1870, WW1, WW2, and the Main WAW) would be? When I google around I find all kinds of data, sometimes it's all over the place, and I'm not 100% sure what to trust as valid.

I can't quite recall where I got Turkey's UA. Almost certainly, I took it from one of the Ottoman/Turkish custom civs from post #234. Probably just copied it right over. Same with the UU. When I put these mods together, I usually start with the getting the Artwork together. And since that's definitely my weak point in modding (just look at Bulgaria - purely my work - ugh!), generally try to take the best looking version around. I think that's why we have the Ataturk I used, even though I wasn't wild about it. IIRC, the UA is the same in both the WW1 and WW2+WW2OAM scenarios. I don't think I changed hardly any UAs between all these mods. In a 84 or 96 turn game, UA's don't tend to be overwhelming, so I just didn't put much/any thought into it.

In the "Modiquette" post at civfanatics, it explains that all artwork created for Civ5 modding cannot be copyrighted, but it is good form to ask the original creator, or at worst, reference them somewhere in your mod description. I try to do this all the time, although almost no one replies back. So, I try to keep my "references" up to date, but could definitely do a better job of it. But, the bottom line is anyone is free to reuse anyone else's content if they choose. Heck, I've even seen some of my stuff being reused without reference, but it doesn't bother me much at all. Life is short, ya know...

I mentioned those alternative custom civs because I have to specifically add each one to the Unit Namer script in the Main WAW mod and I need to add them to the Unique Units mod so that the game will know that it needs to use the new unit models for those civs. There's no good way for the mod to know when a custom civ is Turkish or Ottoman in any other way. All of these actions must be set up in the "mod loading" phase (when you hit the "Next" button in the MODS UI), so there's no way I could write an LUA "name parser" that looks at what the civ is called and make adjustments on the fly. It's simply impossible. So, there's no way a mod could determine who's Ottoman/Turk, a priori, so it needs to be spelled out within the mod itself.

Really appreciate the help in getting these civs in better shape. I think I released the V4 of the WW2 scenario without updating the unit organization names. Yesterday was a bad day, am coming down with something, but definitely NOT Covid. Woke up, published the update without thinking much, and went back to bed the rest of the day. But, with a new version with sooooo many changes, I'm sure there'll be at least 1 hotfix (there usually is), and I'll make sure to get those changes in first. The updated names are in there.

Thanks again!

 

[jeriko one]

I hope that you are better now. It is always good to get some rest and regroup before moving on. I am happy that it is not COVID, and since that is the case you can always solve the problem with a hotfix, maybe in a later update.

Yes, I agree with the 600-year history argument. From that point of view, the Ottoman Empire should be in the mod. As you said, they simply couldn't keep up with the Europeans. They tried, with Mahmud II who is in the "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" mod-set, but to no avail. I don't know...'The Sick Man of Europe' should not live beyond 1923 Alternate History... (which happens to be one of my favourite fiction genres). Of course, every mod creator has a different creative point of view, so that would be the case for WAW.

It is good to hear that copyright is not an issue here. Not dealing with copyright makes things so much easier, and as you said life is short (btw, I didn't notice Bulgaria, so it can't that bad!)

Finally, regarding the link. Unfortunately, I didn't quite understand how I might be of help. Do you need a link for the flags (presuming in view of my previous post about the Presidential Seal) or something else entirely? In any case, I would be happy to assist, as always.

Stay healthy!

 

[sman1975]

Yes, but every time I hear someone sneeze anywhere within 10 meters of me, I definitely notice!

Alternative history: the main reason for anyone to do any mod... It's the sine quo non of the entire effort.

The link question was could you send me an internet link to a web page that has the "right" civilization flag for Republic of Turkey in 1939, and possibly the right Ottoman civilization flag in 1914, and the same for 1870.

These flags are the colorful emblems of a country, and the Civ5 Ottoman civ flag looks like this:

I was looking for the best symbols to represent those 3 periods of time. I've seen several examples looking at various web pages, but I was hoping to get the ones that would make the most sense to someone who would know.

 

[sman1975]

Hello, Everyone: a new version to the "Unique Units" companion mod is published! Some hotfixes, and a few minor upgrades/changes.


******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Summary of Changes:

New Units:

1. Pennsylvania Class Superdreadnought (USA)

2. Queen Elizabeth Class Superdreadnought (UK)

3. Marine (Germany)

4. Minekaze Class Destroyer (Corvette, Japan)

5. Fubuki Class Destroyer (Destroyer Escort, Japan)


Added more custom Civilizations who can use these units:

1. Japan: JFD's Japan (Meiji), JFD's Japan (Jimmu), PorkBean's Republic of Ezo, Homusubi's Japan (Tanaka Kakuei), GPuzzle's The Shogunate of Japan, Iska's Imperial Legacies – Japan, Bane_S Tokugawa's Japan

2. Ottomans: MC's Ottomans (Orhan), TarcisioCM's Ottoman Empire (Mehmed V), The Good The Bad And The Ugly (all 4 civs), The Turks (Mehmed II), Republic of Turkey, Uighur_Caesar's Turkey

3. Rome: JFD’s Rome (Julian), JDF’s Rome (Julius Caesar), JFD’s Rome (Caracalla), JFD’s The Empire of Rome (Constantine), Ishipp’s Rome Scipio Africanus, TarcisioCM - Rome (Aurelian), Uighur_Caesar's Rome (Pompey), Rob8xft’s Anno Domini Ancient Mediterranean, MD’s The Roman Empire – Trajan, ComradeTitus’ The Roman Republic - Brutus


Other Changes:

1. Fixed the German U-Boat upgrade path, which was broken previously

2. Modified the German WW2 Fighter upgrade paths. Basically, their Fighter Mk I (Bf-109) and Fighter Mk II (Fw-190) now upgrade to the Jet Fighter unit at Lasers. They may still build the Fighter Mk III (from the Main WAW mod), and that fighter upgrades to the Advanced Fighter (Me-262). The Me-262 also upgrades to the Jet Fighter unit at Lasers. These changes are not only more accurate historically, they also take away some of the OP nature of the "free" SS units

3. German SS Infantry units now can spawn at the discovery of Radar, not Operations Research. We should see more SS units and earlier. Nerfed the chance to spawn for human players to half that of AI players. Nerfed the overall upper limit of spawn chance from 50% to 45% max

4. Moved the Japanese Kagero Class from a Flotilla Destroyer to a Heavy Destroyer, which is much more accurate, historically. It also only requires a Seaport to build, not a Shipyard as other Heavy Destroyers do

5. Added +1 movement to all Japanese WW2-Era destroyers compared to similar ship types of other civs. To balance this out, none of the WW2 Japanese destroyers (Minekaze, Fubuki, or Kagero) can upgrade until the discovery of Astrophysics, when they may all upgrade to the Aegis Destroyer

6. Cleaned up some of the Japanese unit names, so that their actual type is more apparent in the unit name (e.g. “Ki-61 `Hien` Fighter” becomes “Ki-61 `Hien` Fighter Mk II”, etc.

******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

I'm also updating the Main WAW mod in the next few days, which may require some more changes to the Unique Units mod sometime in the near future. Sorry about the inconvenience!

Thanks!

 

[jeriko one]

Yes, but every time I hear someone sneeze anywhere within 10 meters of me, I definitely notice!

Alternative history: the main reason for anyone to do any mod... It's the sine quo non of the entire effort.

The link question was could you send me an internet link to a web page that has the "right" civilization flag for Republic of Turkey in 1939, and possibly the right Ottoman civilization flag in 1914, and the same for 1870.

These flags are the colorful emblems of a country, and the Civ5 Ottoman civ flag looks like this:

View attachment 573397

I was looking for the best symbols to represent those 3 periods of time. I've seen several examples looking at various web pages, but I was hoping to get the ones that would make the most sense to someone who would know.

I hope that you are somehow better now. The "sneeze radar" is the new normal I guess. I have the same issue.

Always good to see the modders and the players work with the same motivations, alternate history, learning about history, mixing both etc.

The answer to the flag question might come as simple...but, the Ottoman Flag of 1844 is almost the same as the flag of the Republic of Turkey. A Turkish law on the flag sets out exact dimensions whereas concerning the Ottoman one I couldn't find any official dimension. I have also corroborated the info with old photos, foreign or Ottoman. Therefore this Wikipedia link is surely trustworthy. It also provides a colour scheme and the dimensions set out in the law of the flag. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Turkey