Sneak attacks - is it all over?

[TeraHammer]

It's easier than making the AI smart enough to cancel open borders when things turn ominous.

You have a good point there.

"Yeah l0l, I always accompany my missionary with 10 tanks"

 

[Canadian Bacon]

I had a good sneak attack against my German neighbours in the game I am currently playing. Due to my higher culture, he had three cities on the border of my own culture, and was thus able to nab half of his empire in a single turn (small map).

 

[shadow2k]

Sometimes my Spies can use enemy roads/rails, sometimes they can't (AI inconsistency, I'm afraid)

I'm pretty sure you can only use them if you have open borders with that Civ.

 

[ticktockclok]

I'd say sneak attacks are still alive and going, but now its more like 'precision strikes'. I was going for spaceship on my first noble, and gandhi's Delhi was raking in 200 gpt. I sent an armada of battleships and transports with marines, artillery, and MA, and sacked him.

 

[Bushface]

I'm pretty sure you can only use them if you have open borders with that Civ.

I was referring to wartime, when there are of course no open borders. In peacetime my spies flash along my rival's railways regardless of open borders, which is very useful as it lets me see what at least two of their cities are doing - per spy, that is, and I have two in each of my two remaining opponents lands. So one keeps losing his oil, while the other has no aluminium, thus giving them no chance to build really advanced units. Now if only I can severely hinder the research into Robotics that one of them is doing, he won't be able to make Mech Inf either !

 

[White Elk]

To help with our sneak attacking we also need paratroopers and transport helecopters. Hovercraft would be nice as well.

 

[Rain]

Happens all the time. Germany in Belgium in both World Wars. Germany with Poland WW2. US with Vichy France also WW2.

Declaration of war is not compatible with modern fast/blitz wars.

The armies were not inside the borders before they began hosltile activities. There is a difference between sending fleet army to invade and doing without any notice and the old civ cheat of placing your entire army inside the country then attacking something. The current implementation allows for the former which is realistic and does not permit the latter which is generally speaking, not.

 

[boneys26]

Properly executed Amphibious Assaults make great surprise attacks.

Thats how i do it too, I get a task force ( a few subs battleships,destroyers, carrier, or two along with a load of transport boats full of marines and tanks) sit just short of there land, then i declare war and land all my units

 

[boneys26]

Happens all the time. Germany in Belgium in both World Wars. Germany with Poland WW2. US with Vichy France also WW2.

yeah don't forget UK and US with germany (french soil) D-day landings the Germans didn't know when we were coming then, mind it would have been over quicker if our paras landed where they were ment to

 

[Krupo]

In order to do a sneak attack in this civ game, the enemy city has to be one space away from your borders. I did do this to the Spanish. I put my units one space away from Coroba (note that I am still in my territory and then declared war right on the city!

I prosecuted a GLORIOUS attack on France that way. I exploited, er, used, Caesar's massive culture to my advantage. He ate up some of my territory with his culture, but I had ROP; his border ran up to the front door of Paris or Orleans. So I stationed my entire field army outside Orleans, I proceeded to conduct a 1940-style invasion of France. Oh what fun.

Other than that I'm glad that there is what you guys called no RoP Rape!!! When a stack of units were travelling in my borders, I get too nervous!!!

Totally! It's really nice on the receiving end; to not have to worry about *being* on the receiving end!

So-called sneak attack. Wasn't there a newspaper report recently that said that Americans had incited that attack by shooting at some Japanese vessel?

That would be a case of extremely poor journalism, then! Japanese plans for the attack are well documented and it was quite a premeditated action, carried out with impressive secrecy, etc. etc.

Oh man, don't get me started on that, the original massive intelligence failure...!

Happens all the time. Germany in Belgium in both World Wars. Germany with Poland WW2. US with Vichy France also WW2.

As mentioned by others, Germany was next door, not inside. To suggest otherwise is grossly irresponsible.

And that means there is no contradiction with Civ 4 style rules, either.

Fortunately, Spies don't get expelled from enemy lands when war starts - after all, they are invisible except to other Spies.

And I'd be very upset if they were - that'd kind of defeat the whole purpose, eh?

I've still lost a number of armor with these amphibious attacks but the odds have been good enough that it's been worth repeating. Though I should also mention that I soften the defenders with airstrikes when I can. But there isn't always many aircraft left over after reducing the city defenses during a surprise attack. Unless I've had plenty of time to prepare.

Sounds like you need more battleships.

I miss cruisers... AEGIS cruisers especially. Damn those were awesome.

 

[boneys26]

I miss cruisers... AEGIS cruisers especially. Damn those were awesome.

I miss the cruise missile they were good

 

[Oho]

That would be a case of extremely poor journalism, then! Japanese plans for the attack are well documented and it was quite a premeditated action, carried out with impressive secrecy, etc. etc.

Well technically I guess it is true that Americans fired the first shot as I have come to understand they sunk a Japanese mini sub practically inside the Pearl Harbor harbor

http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/SOEST_News/PressReleases/Japanese mini sub.htm

but the event had nothing to do with the imminent Japanaese attack, I mean the planes that did attack were already if not in air, not much else.

- Oho -

 

[Krupo]

Yeah, I know about the mini-sub.

The Japanese committed the act of war by sending in a military unit into American territory, though; the Americans simply took prisoners when the sucker ran aground.

Poor saps wished they could honorably kill themselves at the time. Smooth.

 

[calyth]

If anything, I had a game where I've staged my troops on my would-be victim's neighbour, and then declare war, and have some mounted units rush in and unhook his resources while a few stacks attacked from different prongs. That civ was pretty much gone after I've done that.
But then it was at a pretty easy difficulty of Warlord, so that doesn't really help that much.
Had I not staged units in India, I'd have to attack the victim from the long end (his country was kinda long), but staging in India allowed a broadside attack that brought down the country pretty quick.
So sneak attacks are still possible, as long as your victim isn't particularly paying much attention and/or not having open borders with his neighbours.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Yeah it's totally "realistic" to have vast armies INSIDE of a nation and THEN declare war and swoop on them- happens all the time!

LOL

US 'invasion' of Panama in 1989. Lots of troops based inside of the country we attacked.

 

[Krupo]

Well in the case of Panama the US had army bases set up there to defend the canal zone; that's a special treaty. It'd be interesting to be able to sign "special treaties" in Civ 4 to allow army bases in specific tile-zones without granting full ROP. That'd probably be the most accurate way to simulate that.

As for 3rd party invasion routes, those are *awesome*, except for the risk that you'll be counter-attacked in the 3rd country's territories (assuming that you and your enemy both have ROP with the 3rd country). I'm sure that has hurt people in the past.

 

[Tavenier]

The US embargo was a response to the Japanese aggression against China and Dutch Indonesia.



It certainly is a provocation, however one country should not be compelled to provide another with the rope that will eventually be used in its own hanging. Japan certainly knew what would happen if they attacked the Dutch colony, which not coincidently was oil-rich. The US and Great Britain acted as counter weights against total Japanese domination of east Asia, however both powers only had weak defenses in place. The embargo of July 1941 was Japan's Gulf of Tonkin - an excuse for an attack.

Back to Civ. One of the things I miss from Civ2 is sneak attacks, i.e. a bonus for the attacker in the first round of war. During the first round, attackers should not only get an attack bonus, they should be able to use roads as well. Obviously, the bonus would only be available once per game. Once you sneak attack, your neighbors would be ever-vigilant.

Dutch Indies were attacked by Japan after Pearl Harbour...

 

[Bigjohn]

Hmm. I've been "sneak attacked" by the AI. In fact that is the one reason I came here searching for this - because after it happened (and I'm 99.9% certain it was a sneak - I had open borders and my cities were 3+ squares away...), I wanted to know how and could not find it in the manual.

 

[Artanis]

Hmm. I've been "sneak attacked" by the AI. In fact that is the one reason I came here searching for this - because after it happened (and I'm 99.9% certain it was a sneak - I had open borders and my cities were 3+ squares away...), I wanted to know how and could not find it in the manual.

Either the AI managed to find a way to get to your cities fast (i.e. a naval landing will dump troops right next to a city from upwards of 6 tiles out), or else it's a bug. The old-style "RoP-rape" is dead and gone.